Failing at finding a partner doesn't have to be anyone's fault

funlightmandarin · 2022-10-25T21:55:05+00:00

It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness—that is life.

Bald dude, Trek Wars.

PMmeareasontolive · 2022-10-25T22:40:36+00:00

A lot really is chance and environment. My 1st job in a social work field, everyone dated each other. Everyone was about the same age and banded together because the job was stressful occasionally. Now I'm in the corporate world and everyone loathes each other and resents even having to speak to a coworker.

So: totally different experiences, while my personality remained unchanged. Surroundings make a difference.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-10-26T02:05:00+00:00

First off I agree that it doesn’t have to be anyone’s fault, or at least not the individual’s or any one gender’s fault. I tend to blame modern society and the dissolution of communities and “third places” (gathering spots that aren’t work or home), along with millennials’ and Gen z’s social development being ruined by tech and helicopter parenting, for the difficulties of modern dating. Autism or autism-like symptoms are very common these days (exactly why, I do not know, but that’s a different discussion).

And it’s hard as fuck to improve social skills. I know from experience as a kind of spectrum-y, awkward as hell former homeschooler with horrible social anxiety. But I also know it can be done. And the only way to do it is by leaving the house and exposing yourself to embarrassing situations, unfortunately. You may never be a social butterfly or “smooth,” but you CAN learn to talk to people, and women are people.

So sometimes it annoys me a bit when these men act so dense about communicating with women, when it doesn’t seem like they’re too socially dense to hold a job or have friends. They’re “othering” women, and there’s usually a lot of underlying hostility there that makes it seem like they don’t truly want healthy relationships with women.

Wanting a partner, love, romance, and sex doesn’t make one entitled, but acting like you should just get all of that without having to do anything differently, is entitlement. And with some of these guys, every time suggestions are offered, they are shot down immediately with “but why should I have to do something I don’t want to do?” answers.

BigZaddyZ3 · 2022-10-25T19:50:16+00:00

Yep. This is where the bluepill is actually the most toxic of the three pills (believe it or not). It fails to acknowledge the immutable aspects of sexual attraction and the fact that humans are not truly born equal in certain senses. Some people were just born to be highly sexually successful while others weren’t. In the same way that people like Tom Brady and Stephen Curry were born to be superstar athletes while others weren’t. (Bluepillers also don’t seem to understand evolutionary biology/psychology lmfao)

The bluepill trys to bury the biological realities of animal mating, which then means no matter what it’s always your fault (even the aspects that were always out of your control)

The truth is, genes matter most specifically because you can’t acquire them thru hard work, patience,etc. So they will always be way more valuable than personality when it comes to creating life (which is what sex is all about in the end).

Unhappy-Slice-5098 · 2022-10-26T01:27:30+00:00

Society in general needs to stop pushing relationships, sex and romance so hard. But it won't stop doing so anytime soon, because capitalism needs workers to keep it alive, and we are in constant need of tax payers. And yet, the West continues to trend downwards in birth rates.

Not ending up with a partner is just how things end up being sometimes, but it seems standards for partners are so ridiculous now that putting an honest effort in won't do much for some folks. The kind of effort that could get you somewhere a decade or so ago is just another choice in an endless pool. Social media has truly destroyed our perceptions of one another. I feel especially bad for Zoomers and Gen Z. These kids filter the hell out of themselves, how can you deal with looking at yourself in the mirror? And imagine how high their standards of other people's attractiveness must be, and how depressed they must feel when learning what someone actually looks like. Face filters are fucking scary

I blame the massive corporate institutions in reshaping society and government and in turn, how we see each other. People who wouldn't necessarily have been left behind in the past are losing out on romantic relationships now. We are worked to death, stressed and obsessed with perfection. In short, we're stupid, vulnerable and easy to manipulate. Keep us drugged with entertainment and perfect illusions so we don't ask questions.

ClaraBow01 · 2022-10-26T03:16:23+00:00

I agree with this. I only use the “check your personality” when it’s clear the problem is their personality.

TheAutismPill · 2022-10-26T04:07:37+00:00

"From what I've seen in the FA/Virgin forums, around 25-30% of them are on the spectrum"

It may be even higher than this on incel forums, from what I've seen there I would be surprised if it wasn't.

"One large incel forum conducts periodic polls of its members. In a poll this past March, 71.5 per cent said they were on the autism spectrum."

https://nationalpost.com/news/inside-the-minds-of-incels-experts-seek-to-short-circuit-the-spiral-from-loneliness-to-loathing-to-violence

"in comparison to 1.5-2% of the general population."

Also remember that males, the more relevant demographic here, are diagnosed 4x as often as females

EventSea8621 · 2022-10-26T08:23:27+00:00

female sexual selection has no relation with the morality of the man, ive seen this irl many times.

Kronbopulus · 2022-10-26T13:45:33+00:00

Couldn’t have said it better, people are so quick to assign blame. The person must be morally corrupt. When it can plainly be something out of their control and that’s just the chaos that is life.

The saying rings true, you can do everything right and still lose

MistyMaisel · 2022-10-25T19:42:37+00:00

I think you sort of have to define fault on some level, right? Like I feel like there's a very, "you're a bad person" tone to the word, that at least when I say it, I'm not adding in (unless I am because I think they are and I'm saying so). It's more typically a suggestion of, "you are an undercooked or raw steak" sort of thing and it is your job to cook yourself more, figure out the audience you're aimed at, and then try your best to plant yourself in front of them and offer them your juicy or completely burnt self.

I keep trying to think of a better way to say that, but I still haven't. Yes, in the sense that you're either failing at

Knowing your audience
Knowing what kind of delicious steak you can be
Becoming that kind of delicious steak
Continually Putting yourself in scenarios where your target audience would see what a delicious steak you are and agree to eat you

It is your fault you haven't been eaten yet. That's not to say you're a bad person. It's to say you're probably failing at one or more factors which most people need in order to eat steak.

People being on the spectrum is an excellent example of this. They aren't bad people, they're steak which actively and often accidentally discourages you from eating it through a number of factors and/or is not where steaks usually go to be eaten and/or does not ask people to eat them.. But this isn't some death sentence, you can actively learn all of these things.

Now, does being an unwanted steak ever make you a bad person? No, but the feelings which are often attached to that can and how you talk about that to yourself and others can. There's a difference between wanting a partner or sex and being a bit or even very sad you don't have one and declaring this a universal injustice which is a result of females being unreasonable steak eaters who only eat prime steak and also frankly did nothing to deserve steak and suck. One of these is fine, the other is also fine in a philosophical sense, but reeks of entitlement and a fractured humanity that others find off-putting and can lead to dark behaviour.

TravelerSF · 2022-10-25T21:23:29+00:00

it usually isn't because they're misogynistic any more than it being because a woman wants: "6 feet tall, 6 figure income, 6 pack." I suspect social media plays a role in the difficulty of the modern dating world, but you're not going to un-invent it any more than we're going to abolish electricity.

You said it's no one's fault yet you point these things that are obviously someone's fault. If not the women's, then the media's or the society's, and even then we can eventually point to the individuals. Fact of the matter is that men used to be able to find relationships by putting in reasonable effort, whereas now the requirements are basically Hollywood level.

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abaxeron · 2022-10-26T13:50:41+00:00

Social awkwardness is the biggest killer for men in relationships, since we've got to make the initial approach most of the time despite all the talks of equality. If you have a disability, things are going to be a lot harder, regardless of gender.

When I broaden the scope as much as reliable data more-or-less allows, the biggest obstacle to successful romantic life for men that I observe, bigger than being poor, or disabled, or "on the spectrum", or short, or fat, or bald, or awkward,

is being born in the last 70 years. https://ourworldindata.org/marriages-and-divorces

Which tells me that while Yes, on an individual basis there is no-one to blame, there's obviously a serious systemic factor at play. At least one.

M_LaSalle · 2022-10-27T04:06:34+00:00

Well, actually, yes, it does have to be someone fault, and it is always self evidently true that it is someone's fault, because if it isn't then it could happen/could have happened to you. Everyone needs to feel better than someone, it's an inherent human need, and if you succeed then you're better than someone who didn't.

I understand OP's argument, and while it may contain some amount of truth value in particular cases, this doesn't change the fact that at the meta level of reality at which social judgement operates, OP is WRONG. Proof of this can be found in the fact that those who fail romantically and sexually are judged less attractive. No one would harshly judge someone who had bad luck, unless perhaps they took obviously foolish chances, but failure in the romantic sphere is proof that the person is unattractive

Wanting a partner, love, romance, and yes, sex doesn't make anyone entitled. It makes them human.

It makes them creepy. Unattractive guys attracted to women are creepy. They may be in fact be human, unless they are judged to be subhuman for some reason, but...creepy.

Occasionally people try to prove that the unattractive or unsuccessful can still be considered human, but they will never succeed in proving it to anyone who does not believe it already.

RocinanteCoffee · 2022-10-25T21:17:02+00:00

True there is luck involved. You have compatible people out there but will you connect with them under the right circumstances.

But 98% of people (US) will have dates, relationships, sex, and most of those will be with people where there is mutual attraction (exception sugar and arranged relationships). Most of that 2% is made up of asexuals, severe agoraphobics, and the comatose.

gate18 · 2022-10-25T21:29:41+00:00

Wanting a partner, love, romance, and yes, sex doesn't make anyone entitled. It makes them human.

That's true. But taking it out on others is entitlement and toxic.

"Incel" was coined by women. There are still female icels. They all want partners but what they do when they don't get it is the point.

u/BigZaddyZ3 wrote

In the same way that people like Tom Brady and Stephen Curry were born to be superstar athletes while others weren’t

And all of us that aren't superstar athletes are fine with not being so. Hence the blue pill man is correct in this case "Failing at [being a superstar athlete] doesn't have to be anyone's fault"

TheRedPillRipper · 2022-10-25T20:37:53+00:00

Failing

As an optimist the best thing about failure are the lessons learned. Thus success becomes a matter of persistence. Especially in relationships.

I’ve always believed in any venture, you can either quit, or succeed. It’s not matter of assigning fault, but taking responsibility. For the things you control. Self awareness,* and self responsibility, being fundamental skills. Towards that end.

“Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

Godspeed and good luck!

RealAmericanWeasel · 2022-10-26T16:33:35+00:00

I tend to agree with you. Naturally, we can all “blame,” the people who aren’t interested in us but it is not exactly their fault. You also have to consider declining marriage rates - many single people probably would be married if born in a different era - where we may just be talking about a poorly timed birth.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2022-10-26T21:30:28+00:00

It doesn't have to be any one person's fault, but you can certainly point to macro factors.

First, we have to unwed this notion that people are "gene sensors," and somehow are able to divine genetic quality from appearance/smell/whatever magic. It's simply untrue. Studies have shown that facial masculinity and immunocompetence are unrelated and that physical attractiveness and health are unrelated.

The "it's muh primal instinct" notions surrounding dating are moronic. The better explanation is that cultural factors shape attraction in a given time and place --- it's a learned behavioral response.

There simply are certain archetypes and stereotypes paraded around and nowadays magnified by media, and monkey see monkey do. It's good that now there's an increasing movement toward diversity in all respects, but we still have a long way to go to make a real dent in things.

Wanting a partner, love, romance, and yes, sex doesn't make anyone entitled. It makes them human.

Yes, on this point we agree. Where we disagree is the no blame allocation. I prefer saying it's the fault of both parties.

Unless the man has done serious soul searching about the ifs and whys of her "preferences," and has exhausted his means of improving (fancy word for CONFORMING) to the behavioral and physical dictates of his culture, some fault rests on him.

The same goes for the woman.

GridReXX · 2022-10-26T22:44:12+00:00

The “luck” sometimes being born into better (psychologically and physically) genetics than others.
The “luck” sometimes being born into better socioeconomics than others.
The “luck” sometimes being born into a more supportive, loving, and socialable household and community than others.

Unfortunately some people get the short end for all of the above.

I’m sure there are “cute people” born into bullet 2/3 who wish their lives didn’t start so far behind the starting line compared to others.

Title	Failing at finding a partner doesn't have to be anyone's fault
Author	Philip8000
Upvotes	86
Comments	103
Date	October 25, 2022 7:22 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ydd9ix/failing_at_finding_a_partner_doesnt_have_to_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/failing-at-finding-a-partner-doesnt-have-to-be.1137340 https://theredarchive.com/post/1137340

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