The Google Doodle for International Men's Day

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Swastika

The swastika (as a character 卐 or 卍) is a geometrical figure and an ancient religious icon from the cultures of Eurasia, where it is a symbol of divinity and spirituality in some Eastern religions. In the Western world it was a symbol of auspiciousness and good luck until the 1930s, when it became a feature of Nazi symbolism as an emblem of Aryan race identity and, as a result, was stigmatized by association with ideas of racism and antisemitism.The name swastika comes from Sanskrit (Devanagari: स्वस्तिक), pronounced swastika in Sanskrit and swastik in Hindi and other languages which drop a short final ‘a’. and denotes "conducive to well being or auspicious". In Hinduism, the clockwise symbol is called swastika, symbolizing surya (sun), prosperity and good luck, while the counterclockwise symbol is called sauvastika, symbolizing night or tantric aspects of Kali.

[–]nikdahl 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Do you think women sit around and tell each other they have beautiful eyes? They compliment each other on all kinds of things, like the things they bought, the things they've accomplished, etc. Men do that a lot less. They still do it, they just don't do it as much, and there's a lot less positive reinforcement between them.

Men not touching each other as much as women is directly related to toxic masculinity and the need to be detached, emotionally and physically. Not to mention a fear of being seen as gay or weak. Human touch is necessary for all healthy people, regardless of gender.

That's not to say that femininity is a perfect example of anything. Toxic femininity is associated with over-sensitivity, dependence on external forces for validation and support, lack of assertiveness, fear of being seen as a bitch or slut, etc. But even while keeping femininity and masculinity separate things, there's improvements to be made that would make for mentally healthier men and women.

Both toxic masculinity and toxic femininity exist.

[–]Rogdozz 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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The point is that these two extremely opposite ideals of masculinity and femininity is what makes them toxic. There's a healthy medium between them, where men can be more sensitive and co-operative and women can be more independent and assertive. The extremes are good for no one.

Also, I missed the end of your comment before where you said,

Sorry I can't be just like your girlfriend; that doesn't make me a toxic person.

Which isn't what toxic masculinity is about. It's not about you being a toxic person in the slightest. You're probably a really good and decent person. It's the framework that we as men are trapped in that is toxic. What we're stuck living with. What we are taught to reinforce inside of ourselves because it's what society says we're supposed to do. It's a toxicity around us and inside of us that shapes our mental health, and how we deal with the people around us, and how they deal with us. We are not toxic people.

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[–]Mr_Runner 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Lol. Jesus dude. There's a lot to unpack here. No one said masculinity is toxic. Just that some ideas about masculinity today are toxic. And we should change those. You have plenty of examples above already for how some ideas about masculinity hurt men. And that we should change those.

And you are in for disapointment if you're putting all your chips in the basket of "women need to choose those men over other men" to solve your problem. MRAs don't need women to do anything.

So basically what Men's Rights means to you is that women need to do what you want them to do? That's messed up. You're lost. Men are about taking ownership over problems. That's masculinity. Not blaming women. Not expecting women to fix our problems.

You arent a real MRA. You dont want to fix anything. You want women to fix it for you. Pathetic. Read the side bar.

[–]AloysiusC 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

No one said masculinity is toxic.

Actually most of society thinks so, feminists in particular. There's a reason for that which has little to do with feminism actually but that's another subject.

Just that some ideas about masculinity today are toxic.

Is masculinity, on the whole - all pros and cons added up, toxic or not?

You have plenty of examples above already for how some ideas about masculinity hurt men.

Such as?

And you are in for disapointment if you're putting all your chips in the basket of "women need to choose those men over other men" to solve your problem.

Oh I'm aware of that. I said it's the best way, not that it has any hope of working.

MRAs don't need women to do anything.

Tell that to the female MRAs. You couldn't be more wrong here. What do you think the issues even are and how might they be solved?

So basically what Men's Rights means to you is that women need to do what you want them to do?

No. Don't put words in my mouth. Get some integrity, be more honest and confront what I actually wrote. Not some twisted fantasy that you can virtue signal on.

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You misunderstand. Toxic masculinity isn’t the fault of men, it’s caused by society as a whole. When I talk about toxic masculinity i‘m not trying to blame men, I‘m just criticizing circumstances in society that make life harder for men (and, indirectly, for women as well)

When girls mock or bully men for crying, it makes life harder for men because they’re a lot less likely to share their feelings. That is toxic masculinity.

Another example is that men who don’t want to use violence are often mocked and called pussies. Which causes men to be more likely to resort to violence when it’s not needed, just to prove that they’re masculine by society‘s standards. If society saw men who avoid violence as more of a good thing, less unnecessary fights would happen. Of course not every part of society glorifies violence, but at least in my friend circle nobody takes you seriously if you let people disrespect you and don’t punch them in the face

[–]AloysiusC 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rogdozz -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It’s not about female behavior. You could replace “girls” with “guys” and it would still work, I was just providing an example. The behavior in my example makes men think that in order to be masculine, they have to not cry under any circumstances. And this conception that men have (and the actions it leads to) is called toxic masculinity.

So toxic masculinity is caused by society. Not by women in particular, and not by men in particular.

Same thing exists for women too. For example society puts a lot of pressure on women to look good, and as a result lots of women spend excessive amounts of time on makeup and even money on surgery just to look good, when it’s not even needed most of the time. And when they don’t look good they feel self-conscious and it destroys their confidence. That’s toxic femininity.

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not about female behavior.

But female behavior is exactly what you described.

So toxic masculinity is caused by society. Not by women in particular, and not by men in particular.

Then it's not a form of masculinity which defines traits typical of men.

Same thing exists for women too.

Clearly not or we'd be having discussions about toxic femininity in public discourse.

For example society puts a lot of pressure on women to look good

Everyone is pressured to look good. And it's not somebody doing it to them. It's a consequence of good looks being a huge advantage. If you don't like that, start by choosing ugly mates over attractive ones. Then we'll talk.

And when they don’t look good they feel self-conscious and it destroys their confidence. That’s toxic femininity.

Firstly, it's not that for the same reason as with masculinity and secondly, feminists don't call it this so you're making things up.

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How is it hypocritical to say that he was disappointed to see awareness being raised on men’s day that was not for men? I’m sure if it was on another day he would be fine, but the lack of knowledge and participation in men’s day is what is troubling him. Personally I would be a little disappointed too, but I do know that is a good cause and will help people.

Everyone on this Earth has problems that they deal with, a lot deal with serious issues. Dismissing someone’s problems just because they are a certain gender or race is discrimination and IS hypocrisy. Just because one gender or race usually has less problems doesn’t mean that they don’t.

Let’s talk about your logic here.

Are you really trying to say that the millions of women that are treated like shit around the world are not a big issue? The small things in society like how men aren't suppose to cry is more important than that?

By your logic, if there is a “bigger” problem then it can overshadow a “smaller” and therefore the people that are effected by the “smaller” problem need to suck it up.

Meaning if you aren’t being effected by these “big” problems then you need to shut your mouth and deal with them. Are you effected by child slave labor? No? Well because you are living check you check, which is a less severe problem, you need to not bring attention to it, or as people to help. Why take welfare when the government could use it for bigger problems?

See this logic doesn’t really hold up. Sure bigger problems are bigger for a reason, but we shouldn’t dismiss smaller problems just because they are inherently smaller. Problems are problems and we should be helping everyone solve their problems. We shouldn’t focus on one group or exclude one group. If you do that, that’s when things start to get bad and there is discrimination.

The logic is discussed in a fallacy called the “Not as bad as” fallacy. Can be found here.

Here is the gist;

*The "not as bad as" fallacy, also known as the fallacy of relative privation,[2] asserts that:

If something is worse than the problem currently being discussed, then
The problem currently being discussed isn't that important at all.
In order for the statement "A is not as bad as B," to suggest a fallacy there must be a fallacious conclusion such as: ignore A.

Everyone has their problems. Let’s help everyone.

[–]2JMAN89 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]gammer114-9 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]2JMAN89 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The message of this sub is that men need a place for support too. It has nothing to do with bringing down women. It's a place for issues which effect men in today's society. This is like going to a hiking sub and complaining because they don't talk about fast food. This is a sub for men, if you want to talk about the disadvantages women face all over the world, go to a sub specifically for that. Nobody is saying that women don't have issues, but why do you feel the need to berate people for posting about men's issues on a sub created for these issues?

Also ignoring current trends and politics because they are different than the past issues is a dumb argument. This is like saying women being raped in the military is not a real issue because all historical context has men only armies, so we should ignore these women. Their issues are new and not with the historical context, so they are irrelevant.

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Title	The Google Doodle for International Men's Day
Author	radioactivecowz
Upvotes	4120
Comments	336
Date	November 19, 2018 6:15 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9ye50x/the_google_doodle_for_international_mens_day/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-google-doodle-for-international-mens-day.1183768 https://theredarchive.com/post/1183768

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