Caitlin Moran: "Women are at peak ‘Don't give a fuck’ at the moment. Men haven’t found that yet”

rabel111 · 2023-07-05T23:45:20+00:00

The only people listening to yet another feminist femsplaining masculinity, are other feminists and SIMPs. Who cares what a feminist thinks a man should be, what issues men face face, what experiences men endure, and even more so, who would believe anything a feminist has to say about men and masculinity anyway. Bug-off Caitlin, and stop poking your nose in where you have no experience, no knowledge, and no standing to speak.

peemyguest · 2023-07-05T22:00:26+00:00

From the article..

She doesn’t mean me specifically, more the men I represent: liberal, white, straight, university-educated; broadly speaking, quote-unquote, nice. Men so discombobulated by #MeToo that we’ve spent the past six years with our mouths shut, ostensibly to “listen” but also, really, to recalibrate, to try and make sure we don’t mess up any further. Men who have spent the better part of a decade now saying stuff like, “I don’t even read male authors anymore,” while quietly replacing our copies of Michael Lewis and William Faulkner with bell hooks and Bernardine Evaristo; who spent way too long editing our tweets about why we loved Fleabag or I May Destroy You to make sure they don’t accidentally sound like mansplaining; who have learned to always look down at the gym and to speak a little less in meetings, all while silently prodding memories of times we were not great dudes to women – not terrible, but not great – the way a tongue bothers an ulcer.

Could this pathic, simpering worthless, cowardly exuse for a perosn be any more demeaning to men?

The rest of the article is not much better.

Then when my daughter started saying that the boys at their school think feminists are Nazis, I thought, Fuck it

This is an article about Caitin Moran. A known and outspoken feminist who has now decided she kows whats best for men. Tirns out, its feminism. Yup, if men jsut did what women told them, life would be grand!

I was trying to find an article she made for the metro paper, but couldn't find it online, nd i'm not going to the gaurdian. Essentilly, this person thinks she knows all about men and their issues, and had decided mens problems are all caused by men, and only feminism can fix it.

Although is right about one thing. Men are treated badly, and we lack a coherent movement. And we need one now, more than ever.

Present_League9106 · 2023-07-05T22:19:46+00:00

I only got so far (maybe I'll finish it later) before it began to irritate me. Moran's overconfidence mixed with the author's self-flaggelation makes it hard to finish. It sounds like Moran believes she's the first person to observe that boys and men face hardship. People have been writing about it for a long time. It just doesn't get attention, which is why Moran thinks her observations are so novel. Perhaps, if people had taken these things seriously when they were brought up, they wouldn't be the problems they are now. But no, Moran is writing something completely groundbreaking. After all, only feminists can solve men's problems.

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-07-05T22:16:36+00:00

This is exactly what men need, a woman to tell them how to behave!

“I really thought a man would have written [this type of book] by now,” she goes on. “But they just continued not to. Then when my daughter started saying that the boys at their school think feminists are Nazis, I thought, Fuck it, I’m going to have to do it myself.”

Behold! Our new ~~Lord~~ Lady and Saviour! Thank fuck she decided to come along and speak for us (and write a book!) because no-one else has been doing that.

Peak living-in-a-bubble, head-stuck-up-her-cunt, energy here, smh.

Anyone who has been longing to read a proper, funny takedown of either charlatan [Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson] will find much to enjoy in What About Men?; Peterson in particular brings out the ferocious best in Moran’s writing.

So it's not actually about being pro-men then? Her book is about attacking two men for filling a void created by her ilk...

In the suicide epidemic, for example, which is the biggest killer of men under 50, it is often female relatives who are left to pick up the pieces.

Men commit suicide; Women most effected.

Moran is not inventing the idea of a positive conversation around men any more than she invented feminism in 2011. But what her book does, I think, is give a green light for the discourse to get a little lighter, a little more human, a little less po-faced and uptight and – frankly – scared.

Thank you for giving us the permission to talk about the things which we have been talking about for decades. 🙏Please lead us to the path of righteousness towards enlightenment!

DoctorStorm · 2023-07-05T23:24:11+00:00

"Men know, but women unaware, because men actually don't give a fuck."

chupasway · 2023-07-05T22:26:59+00:00

Compares men to dogs.... jfc..

OldEgalitarianMRA · 2023-07-05T22:12:55+00:00

Men have problems. Her solution? More feminism.

Moran suggests the answer isn’t to reverse feminism but to be inspired by it: for men to get our own adjacent little thing going. “Feminism isn’t a set of rules about women,” she says. “It's a set of tools for understanding gender. So if we want to reinvent men, you go and look at these tools that we invented that allow you to go: is this because of my gender? Why is this a problem? I don't like these clichés about my gender.”

_-Wizard-_ · 2023-07-05T22:09:32+00:00

I got charged for playing with someone’s kids on a playground.. I didn’t give a fuck but everyone else did? I don’t understand? It’s almost as if I’m supposed to follow some unknown law of life or something? What am I not understanding?

AzebanSkelmir · 2023-07-06T01:25:52+00:00

And men have been checking out of dating women for the same reason.

JustTwo5936 · 2023-07-06T00:35:24+00:00

I’m surprised Sam Parker was even able to take notes during this interview, seeing as how he had Caitlin Moran’s cock in his mouth the whole time.

There is nothing that’s not shitty about this column or the book it’s about. It’s just more feminists-telling-men-how-to-be-a-man bullshit.

On_the_Cliff · 2023-07-06T01:31:43+00:00

“[...] a list of characteristics she has decided, with the help of her Twitter followers, are typical of men when they are at their best. It includes things like [...] ‘protective’”

Protective.

We're supposed to believe this is new, liberating thinking for men?

hwjk1997 · 2023-07-06T04:19:48+00:00

What the author fails to realize is that women can have the "don't give a fuck" attitude because they're rarely held accountable for their actions, and when they do it's pretty lenient. Men cannot afford to "not give a fuck."

Killersmile60 · 2023-07-06T04:35:43+00:00

This woman wants to reinvent men? Women reinvented themselves in to being the unhappiest and most heavily medicated group of women in history. You can look the studies up. So we'll reinvent men to be what?

Men aren't following women anywhere, because they have no idea where they want to go. That's why they're always unhappy.

griii2 · 2023-07-06T07:35:33+00:00

Don't get confused, Moran is a self professed man-hater and she hallucinates that men need more feminism to get better:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ToxicFeminismIsToxic/comments/14o5kw6/feminist\_author\_caitlin\_moran\_admits\_she\_used\_to/

Throning · 2023-07-06T08:39:59+00:00

“More likely to underachieve at school; to fail to go on to further education; to be medicated for destructive behaviour; to make up the majority of the prison population and the homeless; to be addicted to drugs; to die earlier – including by suicide.

Well at least she acknowledges those. Honestly by the paragraph before that (or it being GQ in general), I'm surprised she didn't go on to blame men for all those things regardless, and expect a 50/50 coin flip that she even mentions anything (in the article) to address any of the issues.

“I really thought a man would have written [this type of book] by now,” she goes on. “But they just continued not to. Then when my daughter started saying that the boys at their school think feminists are Nazis, I thought, Fuck it, I’m going to have to do it myself.”

She apparently didn't know Richard Reeves already had, within the last couple years too, though I'm not sure if Reeves' book addressed all of the issues, it addressed enough of them to be valid criticism against her claim here.

“I can't remember the last time I read anything about men that was joyful and friendly and respectful," (...) "‘fuck these guys’, ‘what do they have to complain about?’

She literally answered her own question without even realizing it. Feminism has, through it's stranglehold on social and mass media, indoctrinated the masses to be "fuck these guys" and "what do they have to complain about". Frankly, it's been doing that ever since it started, just in more 'polite' terminology as no one was really saying Fuck in the media back around the Suffragettes time.

When I started out in journalism during that period, everyone wanted to be Caitlin Moran (...) Apart from AA Gill, who died in 2016, no British columnist of her generation could touch her.

We get it dude, you're simping for Caitlin.

The amount of times this guy very obviously stops to lay praise on her through the entire article, instead of getting to the point, is ridiculous.

“We're scared to go near it,” Moran says. “It's become really febrile. People are really divided. There's a really uncomfortable silence where the middle ground should be, and that's where Andrew Tate started.”

For all of Feminism's claims that they are about helping men too, but hearing at least one admit they are "too scared to", speaks volumes more than I think Moran really intended. Though I think it's more a matter of being scared she would lose whatever backing that Feminism had given her platform for, as opposed to any fear that men would not listen or that nothing would change.

And of course it segues into "But Andrew Tate!" - I've said it before, for as much as they hate the man, they sure give him a lot of free advertising and let him live rent-free in their heads.

(random stuff about Jordan Peterson; specifically alluding to him being a 'pseudo intellectual' among other claims)

She hopefully does know that he was a professor with tenure at Canadian state universities. He's run his own psychotherapy business. He's an author to boot.

It'd be like saying Albert Einstein was a "pseudo genius in physics" - no, the man was legitimately very intelligent, to genius levels of intelligence.

She may not like what Peterson has to say, even I don't like or agree with everything he says. But it's practically copying Olivia Wilde and accusing him of being "incel king".

“The stakes in this are teenage boys." (...) For them, they’re going ‘When was the last time anyone said anything good about boys?’”

Another glimmer that she's almost there, almost on the cusp of having some remarkable breakthrough. Almost. But still not quite.

In the suicide epidemic, for example, which is the biggest killer of men under 50, it is often female relatives who are left to pick up the pieces.

Ah yes, men commit suicide more, women most affected. /yawn

Men have benefitted hugely from women becoming more empowered over the past decade. It’s resulted in better conversations, stronger workplaces, plenty of great art.

The only one I'm going to pick at here is the "stronger workplaces", because even those have become more divided, at least in the US, particularly in the wake of MeToo, with men less and less willing to mentor or even talk to a woman with the office door closed. There is a hugely pervasive threat that if anything is said to even remotely upset her, there will be a non-zero chance she'll leverage rape or sexual assault accusations toward you.

Stronger workplaces indeed, when I see more businesses jumping on the woke train only to get boycotted because some blithering idiot decided it'd be a great idea to tell their biggest share of customers to go screw themselves (looking at you, Gillette, among others who've gone woke, gone broke).

How in the world "stronger workplaces" even fits in this entire article is shameful, this article's author is a buffoon only clearly trying to lick the boots of GQ's HR department so he doesn't get fired for being too "masculine", or excuse me, due to "toxic masculinity".

“Feminism isn’t a set of rules about women,” she says. “It's a set of tools for understanding gender. So if we want to reinvent men, you go and look at these tools that we invented that allow you to go: is this because of my gender? Why is this a problem? I don't like these clichés about my gender.”

Then why is it called Feminism, and why is so much of Feminism solely focused on issues that, no matter how disproportionately, affect women?

Caitlyn is living under a rock, and trying too hard to twist Feminism into being some Gender Studies thing. The giant copy-pasta of Karen Straughan saying "You, some random person on the internet, is the real feminist" would apply here.

It includes things like “nonjudgmental”, “protective”, “brave”, “joyous” – before Moran realises she’s been describing a dog.

Oh, hey, there already are books literally telling (modern) women to treat their men like dogs. She's not far off from joining them, it seems.

Moran is not inventing the idea of a positive conversation around men any more than she invented feminism in 2011.

Well clearly not, but she is claiming that no one, especially no man, has written a book like hers, when some men have, including a man she seems to hate intimately like Peterson.

“Women are at peak ‘Don't give a fuck’ at the moment,” Moran says. “You are so richly rewarded if you find a taboo and bust it. Women have found the perfect tone to that, which doesn’t hurt anyone. Men haven’t found that yet.”

Also referencing another book (and literally written by a man) - The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck.

Caitlyn, pull your entitled head out of your privileged ass. You're not even giving men credit for not giving a fuck, jesus fucking christ.

Professional-You2968 · 2023-07-06T05:50:31+00:00

Reading the article, it doesn't matter how much they try to hide it, they are starting to be scared. Feminism is finished.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-07-06T07:48:33+00:00

"In the suicide epidemic, for example, which is the biggest killer of men under 50, it is often female relatives who are left to pick up the pieces."

This author is a piece of shit. Men are treated like shit, a man kills himself. Women are left to pick up the pieces and are most affected.

Micro_Peanuts · 2023-07-06T02:48:02+00:00

AI summary:

Bestselling author Caitlin Moran is stepping back into the spotlight with a new book aimed at addressing the societal struggles of straight white men, a demographic she believes has been overlooked amidst the #MeToo era. In "What About Men?", Moran argues that as these men have sought to reconfigure their behaviour and attitudes in response to the #MeToo movement, they've lost sight of the issues that affect them directly. According to Moran, men are more likely to underperform in school, fail to pursue further education, exhibit destructive behaviour, make up the majority of prison and homeless populations, suffer from drug addictions, and die prematurely, including by suicide.

In Moran's view, men have not been given the same space to joyfully and respectfully explore their identities as women have in recent years. She expresses frustration that the language used to discuss men in media and social circles often takes on a peevish tone, mirroring the dismissive language used to speak about women in the early 2010s. This realization prompted Moran to take up the cause herself, providing a unique perspective from "the other side."

Despite its intended audience, Moran's book is likely to raise eyebrows among those familiar with her career as a leading voice in fourth-wave feminism. Her previous work, "How To Be A Woman," sold a million copies and established Moran as a popular commentator on feminism and gender equality. Nevertheless, she felt compelled to tackle the subject of men's struggles, believing it was a necessary step to bridge the gap between well-intentioned men who are apprehensive about stepping into a conversation fraught with division.

Moran suggests that the key to resolving men's identity crisis is not to roll back feminist progress, but to use it as a blueprint. She proposes that the tools of understanding gender created by feminism should be used to redefine masculinity. The book aims to initiate a positive narrative around men, outlining characteristics of men at their best, and concludes with a rallying cry for men to form their own identity discourse, distinct yet parallel to feminism.

sonickid101 · 2023-07-06T06:03:13+00:00

I never understood growing up with all groups that are supposedly "marginalized" in society why uplifting them has to come at the expense of their opposite. Like for Women to succeed men have to lose. For blacks to succeed whites have to lose. Like is there no lifting up one group with a cooperative tone rather than a vengeful one? Why did all depictions of men and fathers on tv have to be fat, dumb, and oafish like Homer Simpson and Ralph from the Honeymooners?

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-07-06T07:25:29+00:00

"And yet a paradox of where we’ve got to is that it feels like only a woman could have done it and been noticed."

This is a big problem. If a man frankly writes about the disdain men have been putting up with for decades, he is ridiculed, branded a misogynist, and shunned from mainstream media.

Make-TFT-Fun-Again · 2023-07-06T12:29:34+00:00

Jesus she just completely ignores the entire men’s movement and pretends she was the one discovering men’s issues.

Then goes on to say “men are vilified, demonized, and neglected- women most affected.

Feminism these days really is a joke and I can’t wait for men to rise up and smash the matriarchy.

ABlindCookie · 2023-07-06T05:01:13+00:00

Women dont give a fuck? Well, thank god they keep telling us that, or we wouldn't have known

walterwallcarpet · 2023-07-06T06:02:57+00:00

Women, with their neuroendocrine system chock full of oestrogen, can never understand how the male brain works. So, maybe they should stop trying trying to define us, and setting the rules on how we should behave.

Women's peak 'Don't GET a fuck' moment is yet to come.

MushroomMade · 2023-07-06T10:47:14+00:00

Nice guys finish last, why do you think they want to turn us into feminised nice guys.

ConestogaCreek · 2023-07-06T11:39:09+00:00

This irked me: “Feminism isn’t a set of rules about women,” she says. Feminism is anything that benefits women, including defining feminism any way they chose at that moment. Poorly written article and this attention whore can fuck off.

Diablo_Canyon2 · 2023-07-06T02:36:12+00:00

The feeling's mutual.

BigBoysRules · 2023-07-06T05:24:34+00:00

GQ has lost the plot

adam-l · 2023-07-06T10:02:18+00:00

“I really thought a man would have written [this type of book] by now,” she goes on. “But they just continued not to. Then when my daughter started saying that the boys at their school think feminists are Nazis, I thought, Fuck it, I’m going to have to do it myself.”

Da fak? I've published it back in 2015.

Sendmeloveletters · 2023-07-06T00:54:14+00:00

Some of these chicks definitely be looking like they dgaf

solemnoak · 2023-07-06T03:54:33+00:00

But we will

Futureman999 · 2023-07-06T06:28:08+00:00

I don't have an "identity crisis" where society calls on me to be a loving dad and also a mindless, knuckle dragging violent killer (usefully to women to defend my country or my family I guess?) because I'm neither of those things. I don't live my life by somebody else's checklist.

I'm just me. If I was female or nonbinary or whatever, it would be the same. My gender is part of me like my height or my blood type, but it doesn't 100% define me.

Just living my life, and aware fourth wave feminists made a new ideology based on an open call for any complaint the entire female population wanted to make about men, then compiled it all uncritically into a very long list of shit to get us fired or imprisoned for. I avoid them, cover my own ass, don't give them one goddamned penny, and have a great life.

Not sure how we're supposed to f*ck in this situation without being accused of sexual harassment or rape, but who cares? Most of them are fat now anyway..

leshuis · 2023-07-06T07:45:00+00:00

When on the top off a mountain, every way is down :)

mmaguy123 · 2023-07-05T23:45:19+00:00

Honestly Andrew tate was the biggest push for men.

He says many toxic things but it gave men a kickstart in Gen Z.

Andrew_Squared · 2023-07-06T18:33:15+00:00

In the suicide epidemic, for example, which is the biggest killer of men under 50, it is often female relatives who are left to pick up the pieces.

Once again, women most affected. This columnist is trash.

Tiny_Professional358 · 2023-07-06T17:52:19+00:00

Another feminist that blame male problems on other men what else is new?

Men need to start making articles about the hypocrisy of feminism and modern women as a whole, the only way things are going to change is if men start pushing back.

solemnoak · 2023-07-06T20:04:23+00:00

Men who are complacent about issues that men face because it hasn’t affected them personally really bother me. You don’t speak up against misandry and domestic violence towards men because it has never happend to you. WE HAVE TO DO BETTER! and leave our bubble sometimes to stand with men who are facing abuse of any kind.
Because...
If we are voiceless and leave things in the hands of others to get the work done, eventually, someone will step up and take care of things; however, we have to be prepared for any outcome and even when things seem hopeless, it's good to remind ourselves that our silence can be mistaken for weakness; it can be twisted to fit the needs and narrative of the ones who are now trying to take charge.
Please remember we can all make a difference. Stand your ground.
Don't let anyone manipulate your truth or take your voice away.
WE HAVE WORK TO DO! There is no wrong time to push back against anti-male sentiments. We must be brave and we must be loud, and we must not back down! We have the right to be heard!

Top-Bumblebee8411 · 2023-07-07T02:41:53+00:00

Women of the 70s said they needed a place to talk about their issues without men talking or disturbing them. Now their movement was taken over by lesbians and women of colour.

Well now WE need a place to talk about things without women chiming in. WE need to figure out what isn’t working and say so.

His_Dudeship · 2023-07-06T11:51:12+00:00

Stopped reading as soon as it started trashing JP.

PeonSupremeReturns · 2023-07-06T14:33:34+00:00

I have

SomeRandomHonestGuy · 2023-07-06T19:01:39+00:00

Yeah ima just not give a f*** when that woman next me is uncomfortable or there’s danger, men have a role … and that’s being protecting, stoic… reliable and responsible , women don’t understand this is a required role

JJnanajuana · 2023-07-06T04:13:39+00:00

I actually dont hate this.

Don't get me wrong, theres plenty of problems...

Like, the "men kill themselves, women most effected" moment.

And

“I really thought a man would have written [this type of book] by now,”

As if they havent. But, thats exactly why i dont hate it. Her audience is probably made of people who think that too, who have little to no exposure to mens issues.

There are people in that group who do/will care about mens rights who are currently oblivious to them.

It might not be a great introduction but a great introductin isn't likely to reach them at all.

Revolutionary_Law793 · 2023-07-06T17:38:47+00:00

"Moran tells me the other motivation for writing the book. “I can't remember the last time I read anything about men that was joyful and friendly and respectful,” she says. “There are no lists of ‘50 young men to watch’. There's no playlist about how great it is to be a boy. I had that realisation that even saying ‘straight white man’ looks inherently problematic or dodgy."

Title	Caitlin Moran: "Women are at peak ‘Don't give a fuck’ at the moment. Men haven’t found that yet”
Author	peemyguest
Upvotes	391
Comments	194
Date	July 5, 2023 9:55 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14rooqc/caitlin_moran_women_are_at_peak_dont_give_a_fuck/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/caitlin-moran-women-are-at-peak-dont-give-a-fuck.1224482 https://theredarchive.com/post/1224482

Comments