What makes something “feminine”? What makes something “masculine”?

Good_Result2787 · 2024-02-24T15:15:56+00:00

I guess you could just simplify it to the very basic "men are masculine because men" and "women are feminine because women." In some ways I think this works, even to the point of being neither positive nor negative but neutral.

But, as you point out, some people are obsessing constantly over whether a person of a particular sex is "acting how they are supposed to" within these given dynamics. You've got men who don't like it when women "act masculine" or women who might blanche when a guy "acts feminine."

I think your question is unanswerable because it will always depend on the observer. Some people think a man who cries outside of one or two very specific circumstances is not masculine. Some people think a woman who says the word "dude" is not feminine. I think both of those stances are very silly (dare I say illogical? :P) so I would not agree with either one.

On a personal level, I'm a disabled man with a mobility impairment and a cane, and I've been so since birth. In a lot of ways, it probably affects my ability to be perceived outwardly as a stereotypical "masculine" man for a lot of people. Not much I can do about that, but I can worry less whether it makes me a masculine man.

I don't think these are pointless frameworks or anything. I just think they are too nebulous to ever form a proper consensus. I think the question is good nonetheless, though.

wtknight · 2024-02-24T15:21:01+00:00

Well, they are fundamentally the traits that heterosexual members of the opposite gender find sexually desirable in the opposite sex since they increase the chances of the survival of their genes into future generations, and also aid in the ability of their offspring (especially their sons) to attract future mates, and to therefore spread their genes even more.

A man who has the ability to protect and properly provide for his offspring therefore has "masculine" traits.

A woman who has the ability to nurture and take care of her offspring and to keep their household free of germs by properly cleaning it therefore has "feminine" traits.

Proof_mongol9135 · 2024-02-24T15:43:19+00:00

stuff makes me feel strong = masculine
stuff makes my pp rise up = feminine

dacution · 2024-02-24T15:36:59+00:00

Masculine: Strong, assertive, consistent, calm Feminine: Nurturing, empathetic, soft, perceptive

Those are the core masculine and feminine traits. I believe that most men need those traits in order to succeed in the dating market. Men especially need to be assertive and consistent to achieve success in life.

A man with some feminine traits is not less masculine than a man with none. The same goes for women. I don’t think assertive women are less feminine than passive women. I personally have a soft spot for strong assertive women, even though those are traditionally masculine traits. A lot of assertive women are very feminine.

Sillysheila · 2024-02-24T23:53:53+00:00

I mean there are certain traits that are more linked to estrogen and ones linked to testosterone.

Testosterone: takes more risks, has more muscle mass, wants to be active, can be more prone to anger

Estrogen: is more nurturing, doesn’t take risks, more socially attuned, more likely to live longer/survive famine

All the other stuff though is just window dressing imo. A lot of the other gender differences are purely cultural beyond our hormonal “bones”. For example in western culture, men aren’t seen as manly if they don’t try and be aggressive, loud and immediately dominate any conversation. In eastern culture though that behaviour is not seen as masculine, it’s just seen as obnoxious.

All of the things red pill says are “feminine” don’t make sense and to me it seems like they’re intent on excluding every woman from being feminine because it suits their narrative. Apparently, a woman who wears make up, or presents as completely feminine, has a high pitched voice and long hair isn’t feminine because she has a single butterfly tattoo (tattoos aren’t feminine). Or the same woman is deemed no longer “feminine” if she dared to sleep with five people, or if she has a good marketing job and isn’t sitting at a donut shop waiting for people to rescue her. Or, that woman happens to be 30.

yaboisammie · 2024-02-24T15:43:43+00:00

Tbh I agree with your bullets. I feel like they’re just social construct and ig one could argue whether it’s harmful or helpful to have these labels but I feel it’s only harmful if you give in to gender roles and tell girls/women they can’t be into skateboarding or cars or be intellectual bc “that’s for men” or confident and telling boys/men they can’t be into make up or wear dresses or nail polish or be shy etc “because that’s for women”. But I guess even if it’s deemed okay for girls to be masculine or like masculine things or vice versa (meaning boys being or liking feminine things), the labels themselves still push the gender role narrative

Aite I still stand by what I said but in terms of how the google search defines the differences, I feel those are kind of harmful regardless bc a lot of those images are basically pushing the narrative that women are weak and emotional and basically like children and men are strong and logical and need to be the caretakers.

But I feel it also makes a difference as to what traits are actually define as masculine and feminine. In a biological sense, it makes sense to differentiate the different characteristics of cis men and women in certain scenarios but I feel anything else is literally just concepts made up by people ie that makeup or being weak or emotional or nurturing or sensitive is feminine or that grilling or fixing cars or being strong or logical or emotionally closed off is masculine and the only reason a lot of people fall into these categories is because it’s literally how we’re socialized from birth (I’ve read some parents start talking to the baby differently after learning it’s sex even before it’s birth) and the expectations people have since then so it’s very much nurture as opposed to nature imo but a lot of people also don’t understand biology either.

MistyMaisel · 2024-02-24T15:49:19+00:00

I'd go by big five personality honestly. I'd say both are a constellation of traits which generally express themselves in generalized ways. Probably would also draw on developmental psychology and trends like men are object oriented and women are people oriented.

Secondary to this, I would admit that as a society we tend to divide various virtues up by masculine and feminine...and problematical we as a society tend to lionize and treat the masculine traits as effective, worthy, and cool. Which you know, in turn means more people wanna be that than feminine.

Certainly, there's like an additional overlay for interests like say ballet and cars. I don't even have to tell you which is which because we all know which is which.

Safinated · 2024-02-24T15:18:26+00:00

Gender stereotypes, which is what masculinity and femininity are, can be negative or positive

Ok-Dust-4156 · 2024-02-24T18:49:53+00:00

I'm a man so everything I do is masculine by definition.

giveuporfindaway · 2024-02-24T20:15:25+00:00

Testosterone for masculinity.

Estrogen for femininity.

audiofoxthethird · 2024-02-24T20:30:41+00:00

I am woman with a lot of masculine character traits but that’s just sort of how I turned out. I don’t think that really says anything about the kind of person I am. I think it’s important to understand the power of authenticity and keeping people in boxes because it makes other people less nervous is a waste of time and energy.

WilliamWyattD · 2024-02-25T15:40:33+00:00

It should basically be about tendencies that are more typically found in men vs. women.

But yes, the masculine or feminine 'ideal' aspect complicates things. There are a lot of traits that tend to occur more in men, but that women today are not going to label 'masculine'. A lot of more male typical behaviors lead to more worldly power. Women have decided that they want this power. too. Trusting men to take care of them didn't work out well in their opinion.

Thus, it is very hard to say what is masculine and feminine today. Any trait that leads to more worldly success is not going to be one women are comfortable letting men 'keep for themselves' and hoist as the ideal for just one gender. Women have decided that they can cultivate these traits too.

Whiskeymyers75 · 2024-02-25T20:25:47+00:00

Sometimes, what's considered masculine is not and vice versa. I'll use food and alcohol for example. It's considered masculine to eat a giant plate of buffalo wings, bacon double cheeseburgers, big slabs of ribs, and guzzle a lot of beer. Despite the fact that eating this way makes you obese, causes muscle loss, decreases testosterone, and can make your dick stop working.

My strength training diet on the other hand which consists primarily of lean white meat poultry, seafood, and complex carbs to promote peak muscular hypertrophy is seen as feminine. I even have fat ass friends who think they're manly men bust my chops because I'm eating a grilled chicken wrap and drinking lemon water. I even had a date call me out once for ordering a grilled chicken salad, saying I should have been eating a giant, juicy steak. It also gets annoying when I order at a restaurant and the food runner trues giving my food to one of the women at the table.

nonplussedminus · 2024-02-24T15:28:11+00:00

I'm straight so whatever makes my dick hard is feminine and whatever turns me off is masculine

AncientResolution411 · 2024-02-25T03:51:16+00:00

It's a feeling. It's an energy. Taking it too literally.

Yang masculine -> action, drive, decisions. This energy is needed on career by all genders.

Yin feminine -> nuture, rest, recover. This energy should be family and home time.

The yang energy leads, while the yin nourishes in the down time.

wolfloveyes · 2024-02-24T15:18:29+00:00

Masculine at it hearts is about "taking initiative" And staying strong in soul breaking challenges.

Not be affected by outcome.

Engage in activity regardless of outcome.

Lack of breakdown, if a woman insults you, never take any offense, play it cool. Never pay much mind to insults.

Say less, pay attention to what she says. She's having a bad day? Take her for an ice cream, distract her. Then ask her about her day, listen to her problem, don't be smartass jumping through conclusion and offering dozens of solution. She will find her own solution, just nudge her with hints, mostly just validate her feelings.

Always stay strong when she's weak. When she's strong, you can spill some of your issues to her but not too much to take down.

You never put load on structure which can't bear it. Same is true, as man you need to look around and see which person is able to handle criticism, which person can't, which person has weak sense of self or issues and navigate around those, just like you'd in a jungle to hunt.

Most people are not focused on you, so do not make everything about you.

Banter is good but see when she's in mood to take it, or when it will unnecessarily take her down.

When she's high beyond stupidity, take a little bit down.

When she's low, build her up.

Avoid tearing her down just because you feel insecure, discuss your Insecurities with someone who can stomach it like some elder brother or man who u think is strong enough to do that for you.

As your woman will get older, her capacity of stomaching your insecurities will increase but by that time you may have liberated yourself from your insecurities.

I don't know what femininity does, but I think it's about "creation, nurture" but women may know more about it.

Geselshaft · 2024-02-24T15:09:20+00:00

Does your actions support society directly through work, death, and disposability?

Masculine.

Does you actions result in lots of crying, activism, complaining, and have zero solutions?

DarayRaven · 2024-02-24T15:48:22+00:00

This is a multi-variation question

The concept of Masculine/Feminine always depend on the cultural stereotypes of men and women

However l do think there are universal characteristics of being feminine/masculine

For me:

Feminine: loyal to your emotions

Masculine: loyal to your Duty

DarayRaven · 2024-02-24T15:59:54+00:00

“Masculine” traits are the traits society finds most desirable in males. For example, many women are attracted to men who over-index on these traits. “Feminine” traits are the traits society finds most desirable in females. For example, many men are attracted to women who over-index on these traits

I disagree, l think there's certainly universal characteristics associated with the masculine/feminine dynamic

For me masculinity is all about sacrificing, because we often say men are the disposable sex and the concept of "sacrifice" is very consistent with what every great man across any religion,culture,nation did

tadL · 2024-02-24T15:14:38+00:00

Misconception: masculine and feminine is not what society dictates. It's what natural biology dictates. That basic rule some people try to override. But still nature wins

Look at the failed hypocrisy of a former leading blue pill couple. Nature won. They are divorced. She went after him for the same basic rules all others do. And he just was the same idiot he always was.

Edit ah downvotes. As usual

AutoModerator · 2024-02-24T15:04:35+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

mineurownbiz · 2024-02-24T16:05:26+00:00

Honk shoo is masculine, Honk mimimimimi is feminine

januaryphilosopher · 2024-02-24T16:15:47+00:00

Feminine traits are those most commonly associated with women and masculine traits are those most commonly associated with men. They don't need to be desirable and the association doesn't need to match up with reality.

DarkSp3ctre · 2024-02-24T16:25:42+00:00

It’s almost like what we think of as gendered behavior is by and large social constructs and not really rooted in anything other than tradition.

Queasy_Bit952 · 2024-02-24T17:11:46+00:00

I think of it like Who's Line is it Anyways? The rules are made up and the points don't matter.

The terms can broadly describe a set of traits common to a gender in a specific culture at a specific time. As for the 'traits desirable to the opposite sex' in the vein of sexial selection, nobody thinks sneezing pitch or volume is a trait used in mate selection, but we all know when someone sneezes like a girl. Also, that idea assumes a biological foundation and fails to account for what can be significant cultural differences.

Point, they have a use in a very broad way, but when it comes to individuals or individual traits trying to say 'that's masculine' or 'that's not masculine' will almost always be reductionist.

YtBlue · 2024-02-24T17:42:15+00:00

Masculinity is traits every man has to do to survive and do well, it's universal. Confidence, perseverance, aggression. Feminity is traits every woman has to do to survive and do well. Basically a universal male experience of a particular thing makes it masculine and same concept applies for feminity

Supreme_Salt_Lord · 2024-02-24T17:58:50+00:00

Nothing really. Its just words to describe nonsense. Ive looked up masculine and feminine traits. These are things all people should have equally. I couldnt have a male friend who has no compassion, nurturing, emotional intelligence skills. Nor could i be a friend with a woman who has no straight forward, honest, or any leadership skills.

badgersonice · 2024-02-24T18:01:39+00:00

I think defining it by attraction and social desires for men and women kind of works… but it xoesnt fit some cases well.

So like, I was always really good at math and at spa to at spatial manipulations, and I was told that these were masculine traits and a sign of being masculine brained…

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of women finding math ability to be desirable or attractive to women, and I don’t see a reason why society would want men to be better at math than women. Like, traditionally, it was often women keeping the accounting books in a family general store, because she couldn’t lift the heavy barrels and may not have had the authority to order hired men around.

Just a thought on a specific example. I’m sure there are others.

apresonly · 2024-02-24T18:17:20+00:00

pink used to be a color for little boys

we all know feminine men and masculine women

gender is a meaningless construct

be who you are 🤷‍♀️

let others be who they are 🤷‍♀️

DapperDan1929 · 2024-02-25T04:13:15+00:00

People have always thought I’m gay lol

8m3gm60 · 2024-02-25T06:05:21+00:00

Just look at the Latin root of the word. Masculine simply means "of men" and Feminine simply means "of women".

just_a_place · 2024-02-25T07:12:34+00:00

Masculine are all those traits that pertain to Maleness.

Feminine are all those traits that pertain to Femaleness.

And there is considerable overlap between the two sexes because humans are complicated. Masculine and Feminine are a spectrum. And in order to even feel attracted to the opposite, one needs to have at least an intuitive awareness of one's opposite, thus posses it to some degree. I am naturally very masculine, but I also posses feminine traits to a lesser degree and it is when I see these traits in women when I feel most attracted to them.

TheGreatBeefSupreme · 2024-02-26T11:01:22+00:00

AI can now differentiate between a male brain and a female brain with over 90% accuracy. I guess the easiest way to define masculine and feminine is to see what traits are more common in an AI identified male brain than in an AI identified female brain, and vice-versa.

80espiay · 2024-02-26T11:21:14+00:00

“Masculine” traits are the traits society finds most desirable in males. For example, many women are attracted to men who over-index on these traits.

“Feminine” traits are the traits society finds most desirable in females. For example, many men are attracted to women who over-index on these traits.

Rather than "traits society finds most desirable in males/females", I would probably just say "traits that society has noticed more in males/females, than in females/males". Because framing it in terms of "desirability" feels misleading.

Title	What makes something “feminine”? What makes something “masculine”?
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	12
Comments	104
Date	February 24, 2024 3:04 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1aywm2z/what_makes_something_feminine_what_makes/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-makes-something-feminine-what-makes-something.1246317 https://theredarchive.com/post/1246317

Comments