You guys need to wake up and realize feminists are not “against men”

conspirized · 2024-03-25T18:20:24+00:00

Yeah I'm good on that lol

Feminists are absolutely anti-men, it's all over their brainwashing rhetoric and their actions.

I don't care how many armchair Feminists on Reddit tell me "It'S aBoUt EqUaLiTy!" Until the ones that actually matter, y'know... the ones protesting things like equal parenting rights and telling me to shut up when the women are speaking in the workplace, start reflecting that message: it's an ideology of hate.

We already have a term that means equality for all, and it's Egalitarian. It doesn't need a gynocentric name, or misandrist terms and theories to explain things that people don't like.

TrilIias · 2024-03-25T18:59:49+00:00

I can already see where this is going. We'll point to examples of feminist misandry and you'll say that they aren't "real feminists," because to you feminism is about equality. In response, I'm going to yet again post the infamous quote by Karen Straughan:

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

No_Reaction_2168 · 2024-03-25T18:05:05+00:00

Feminists need to wake up and realize that their movement is not always right, which is very hard to do for narcissists.

untamed-italian · 2024-03-25T18:26:23+00:00

Maybe you're a teenager who has no clue what they are talking about.

soontobesolo · 2024-03-25T19:11:15+00:00

> Feminists only want equal rights for women and men.

This is unequivocally false. *Some* people calling themselves feminists want equal rights, I'm of course fine with that. Many, many (perhaps most) definitely do not. They want favoritism.

Inskription · 2024-03-25T18:02:18+00:00

The scorn and general disdain for men in society has never been worse. Feminism is directly involved.

Low_Rich_5436 · 2024-03-25T19:01:36+00:00

Hello there! And welcome.

You haven't read much about men's issues or the varied criticisms of feminism, both complex subjects. That's fine. Here's a few links to get you started on other perspectives than the ones you've been exposes to as of now, from leftist or moderate and/or from reputable sources :

https://www.queermajority.com/essays-all/man-up-and-take-it-do-we-under-detect-mens-suffering

https://quillette.com/2019/09/17/i-basically-just-made-it-up-confessions-of-a-social-constructionist/

https://greenpill.net/marriage-as-economic-slavery/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karlynborysenko/2020/02/12/the-dark-side-of-metoo-what-happens-when-men-are-falsely-accused/

Have fun! Learning about new perspectives is always interesting, even when you disagree.

PS: For short, easy to digest decidedly progressive content, try the posts of u/TheTinMenBlog

sakura_drop · 2024-03-25T19:18:13+00:00

Honestly not sure if this some kind of trolling attempt, but what the hell:

Feminism: an ideology that is based on a one-sided, erroneous view of history that essentially frames men as an oppressor class and women as an oppressed class with little to no nuance.

In 1848, The Declaration of Sentiments - widely regarded as the foundational document of the feminist movement - was published, which states the following:

"The history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpation on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world."

It then lists a number of ways in which they perceive women to be lacking in rights, then constantly blames men for all of them and accuses them of creating the system that they created for the sole purpose of the oppression of women. There is no mention of the duties, responsibilities and burdens that men and boys had during that time (of which there were many), or the privileges that women were entitled to during that time (of which there were many).

Essentially, the very basis of feminism is anchored in patriarchy theory I.E. the idea that men and women are the enemies of each other, that men in power would work in the interests of other men at the expense of women's interests given the chance and that all of the gendered societal norms we see were created for the purpose of privileging men and oppressing women. It's an inaccurate and completely off-base view of society, but this is what feminists have believed since the beginning.

Moving forward, a marriage advice pamphlet from 'A Suffragette Wife'; update the lingo a bit and you've got yourself a typical misandrist screed you might see as a Twitter thread today. Then there's their prime role in the White Feather Campaign during the war, shaming men and boys as young as 15 for 'draft dodging.' Then there's the fact that they were basically domestic terrorists who engaged in very dangerous, life threatening tactics - they practically invented the IED bomb.

Onto the 2nd Wave, where the radical feminist stuff really blossomed - Andrea Dworkin, attempted murderer Valerie Solanas and her 'SCUM Manifesto' (Society for Cutting Up Men), Mary Daly, Catherine A. MacKinnon, etc. This was also the era (the 70s) in which Erin Pizzey, the women who opened the first domestic violence refuge in the modern world (Chiswick Women's Aid), ended up being subjected to a campaign of hate and harassment by various feminists which would go on for decades due to her acknowledgement of cyclical patterns of violence and female perpetrators/male victims, which led to her fleeing the country, having to get her mail checked by the bomb squad, and her dog being killed.

Some specific examples:

Feminist initiatives lead to the introduction of the Violence Against Women Act in the US which discriminates against male victims.
Feminist researchers influence the creation of the Duluth Model for domestic violence, entrenched in law enforcement in several countries - America, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand - which created a severely biased method of dealing with cases of DV by framing it as "patriarchal terrorism" despite all the evidence to the contrary.
The UN, who have been known to follow feminist influenced policies and guidelines (particularly the UN Women branch, unsurprisingly) have excluded men from receiving aid in impoverished, tragedy-stricken areas leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths.
The National Organisation for Women - by their own definition "the largest organization of feminist grassroots activists in the United States" - routinely oppose shared parenting rights and demonise fathers in matters of child custody.
Feminist groups in India, Nepal, and Israel lobby successfully against gender neutral rape laws.
In the US, largely down to the work of feminist public health Professor Mary P. Koss - who has served as an advisor to the CDC, the FBI, and Congress and is largely responsible for the oft touted '1 in 4' campus rape statistic, despite the research behind it being dubious to say the least - there is a severe legal bias regarding female-on-male rape and sexual violence is not accurately included despite evidence to the contrary.
The majority of teachers are women, and there are proven biases against boys in school going back decades.
Some more examples...
And some more...
And some more...

Not even a complete list. I might also add some specific examples of prominent figures who've contributed to feminist literature and activism through the decades to this day, such as paedophile sympathiser Simone de Beauvoir, Clementine Ford, and Mona Eltahawy? Or any of the numerous others listed here?

But they "only want equal rights for women and men" tho...

Reasonable-Tea-8160 · 2024-03-25T18:05:18+00:00

The day feminists are forced to sign up for the draft is the day I'll humor your argument.

iainmf · 2024-03-25T19:18:55+00:00

Please have a look at r/ToxicFeminismIsToxic for examples of feminist misandry.

Here is another big list of feminist misandry https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9v6tqj/a_list_about_feminism_misandry_for_anyone_who/

There are plenty of self-identified feminists who influence the movement who are misandrists. You might say they are not actually feminists, but why should I believe you rather than them?

operative87 · 2024-03-25T18:09:46+00:00

Except feminist completely ignore inequality when it’s men that are suffering it. In some cases they actively create those inequalities.

For example feminists created the Duluth model which meant that men can’t be considered victims of domestic abuse, regardless of what a woman does to them.

Many, many feminists are misandrists.

bifewova234 · 2024-03-25T18:37:44+00:00

Feminists are not egalitarian. Feminists care more about women than men.

ecksman313 · 2024-03-25T18:59:16+00:00

I'll stop labeling feminism as this terrible thing when feminism stops being this terrible thing for men. I'm all for equality but feminism does not want equality. Feminists want female superiority.

Normal_Resident_3162 · 2024-03-25T20:25:50+00:00

I'll pass. I spent some time on r/Feminism to try to understand what it was all about. Feminists absolutely are against any man who doesn't follow every single one of their beliefs to the letter, and even then it's a toss up on whether or not they will deemed toxic. Like it or not there are feminist viewpoints that are in fact directly "against men".

OppositeBeautiful601 · 2024-03-25T20:36:04+00:00

I don't think all feminists are against men. However, there are a lot of them that are, even if the don't admit it to themselves.

For example, when men talk about the suicide rate (men make up 75% of deaths due to suicide world wide), Feminists almost always respond: "But women attempt twice as often". That is a whataboutism, and a false equivalency. How can you compare an attempt at suicide with a successful one? It's so dismissive of an alarming issue that primarily affects men.

When men talk about how there aren't enough DV/IPV shelters for men, and Feminists almost always respond: "Why do men expect us to do everything for them? We fought and built our own shelters by ourselves!" That's not true, the VAWA funds most of them and the tax-payers (both men and women) pay those taxes.

Feminists say things like "Men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them!". How many men do you know, personally, that have killed women?

Men are 3 times as likely to be a victim of a homicide than women are. Feminists respond: "Well they are being killed by other men!" This not completely true. They are most likely to be killed by other men, but women do kill men. It's just not as common. But, why should it matter? Why is a man somehow complicit in his own murder simply by sharing the gender of his perpetrator?

Meanwhile we have renowned Feminists saying extremely nasty things about men:

Coronavirus isn't killing men fast enough

-- Clementine Ford

So men, if you really are #WithUs and would like us to not hate you for all the millennia of woe you have produced and benefited from, start with this: Lean out so we can actually just stand up without being beaten down. Pledge to vote for feminist women only. Don’t run for office. Don’t be in charge of anything. Step away from the power. We got this. And please know that your crocodile tears won’t be wiped away by us anymore. We have every right to hate you. You have done us wrong. #BecausePatriarchy. It is long past time to play hard for Team Feminism. And win.

-- Suzanna Danuta Walters

All men are rapists and that's all they are

-- Marilyn French

Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership.

-- Andrea Dworkin

The Future–-If There Is One–-is Female":

I) Every culture must begin to affirm a female future.

II) Species responsibility must be returned to women in every culture.

III) The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.

-- Sally Miller Gearhart

Again, I don't think all feminists are man-haters. However, feminists do a really poor job, collectively, of policing the message. It's almost like you all don't care. Every time I see something nasty on a Feminists sub, it's typically upvoted and never called out. But that doesn't stop you from posting stuff like this or writing articles claiming that men are just being misogynistic for claiming that feminists hate men. Gaslighting...

To be fair, MRAs are just as bad (cue the downvotes). . I've called it out several times on this sub, with downvotes and pile ones. This whole gender war thing is shit, shit, shit. I guess we're all equal. Equally shitty to one another.

PrudentWolf · 2024-03-25T18:03:42+00:00

Where are you from and what inequalities between men and women do your country have?

Hopeless0341 · 2024-03-25T18:45:29+00:00

What rights aren’t equal?

Ben-iND · 2024-03-25T18:03:56+00:00

So what are These rights i have but women dont?

Smooth_Influenze · 2024-03-25T18:09:12+00:00

Feminists only want equal rights for women and men.

😂🤣😅😂🤣😅😂🤣😅😂🤣😅😂🤣😅😂🤣😅

ohh... wait...😯... You were not trying to be funny.

You are just dillusional. ☹ feel bad for you.

You really need to look at their actions than the words that come out of their mouth.

pbj_sammichez · 2024-03-25T18:15:49+00:00

Uh. Lol. Ok. But you're wrong. Feminists do hate men and boys and have zero interest in doing anything to help males. Oh they use flowery rhetoric of inclusion but the actions prove that men and boys are a nuisance to be managed by the wonderful, altruistic, enlightened women. You need to wake up and realize that feminism is nothing but women advocating for what women want. That's fine, advocate for yourself, but dont call it equality and equate it with morality.

Punder_man · 2024-03-25T22:30:56+00:00

u/nova_dova you seem to be blind to the truth..

If feminism is about equal rights for woman AND men..
Then please explain the following:

The Duluth Model of Domestic Violence, created by FEMINISTS and a model still in use today.. This model assumes that in all cases of domestic violence involving a man and a woman the man is ALWAYS the aggressor while the woman is ALWAYS the victim.

This model alone has erased male victims of domestic violence from the statistics

Circumcision, FEMINISTS went to the UN to petition for Female Circumcision to be reclassified as "Female Genital Mutilation" and for it to be outlawed.
Now, there isn't actually anything wrong with is.. but if feminism is the force for "Equality" as you claim... then surely they could have also petitioned the UN to include men in having their genitals mutilated right?
Rape, Feminists have doctored the definition of rape to the point that rape is now specifically a crime the ONLY men can commit.
Women CAN NOT be charged with rape..
This too has erased many male victims of rape at the hands of women from the statistics
Child Custody, NOW (The National Organization for Women) one of if not THE largest FEMINIST organizations in the USA has constantly fought and lobbied against 50/50 custody becoming the norm..

Do these sound like the actions of a movement that is for equality to you?
But sure.. Feminism is totally NOT our enemy and is a movement for equality right?

Edit: Been over a day now and I see OP u/nova_dova has yet to answer the points i've raised here..
Seems they've slunk away into the shadows like a coward..

Grand-Juggernaut6937 · 2024-03-25T19:44:45+00:00

For some yes, but by and large most feminists will laugh you out of a room if you mention any inequality that favors women over men. It’s only about equality when balancing things makes things better for women

It’s like they want you to think that men are dominating in literally every measurable statistic and can’t accept that women are actually doing better in some ways. I’ve only met a few women in my life that acknowledge that women have actually begun doing better in education because of all the resources that have been made available to them.

ct3bo · 2024-03-25T20:17:12+00:00

Feminists only want equal rights for women and men.

False. It would be called "equalism" or something if it was. Feminism is for "equality" for women where women are treated unequally or where feminists believe women are being treated unequally.

Feminists will fight tooth and nail for more women in the boardroom and top positions but don't care about having more women in the shitty manual hardworking jobs men do. They also don't mention the inequality such as how there's too many women primary and nursery teachers. Or too many women nurses. Or not enough women on the front line or how zero women are conscripted in the Ukraine war.

Feminists only care about "equality" when it benefits them.

Even when men are being shot at and blown to bits, they make war (such as the war in Ukraine) about how hard it is for the women - As if fleeing to a safe haven in Poland or the UK is the same as fighting and being injured and dying on the front line.

Stop labeling feminism as this awful thing,

We'll stop labelling feminism as an awful thing when it stops being an awful thing 😂

One can believe in equality without identifying as an ideologue, such as a feminist.

Oh but men and women are already equal” As much as i wish that were true, it’s not

I'm glad there's one thing we agree on. Women experience inequality in some areas. Men experience inequality in other areas.

Feminism blames men and the (boogeyman) "Patriarchy™" for all of society's ills.

9chars · 2024-03-25T20:31:10+00:00

OP: stop sniffing the markers you're doing brain damage

Pitiful_Row_8253 · 2024-03-25T23:35:33+00:00

Feminists only want equal rights for women and men.

Yeah that bullshit won't work here. Lie somewhere else.

Wylanderuk · 2024-03-26T00:22:59+00:00

It is a awful thing...And you can take your special pleading and stick where the sun don't shine, even though you probably think the sun does shine out of your arse.

Smooth_Influenze · 2024-03-25T18:15:22+00:00

don’t tell me “Oh but men and women are already equal” As much as i wish that were true, it’s not and you can find many videos that will explain why it isn’t.

I agree with you.... men and women are not equal, women are put up on a pedstle.

Forget about videos... In india, tell me 1 law, which provides more right to women than men, and I will agree with you we are Misogynist or that it is a patriarchy. I can tell you many laws which gives rights to women but the same right is not extended to a man.

I suspect all western countries have the same issue, having the laws derived from Britain. But its much worse in India.

Dont try to portray females as the victim qouting social issues when the males face systemic oppression.

amongstTheIdiots · 2024-03-25T18:26:02+00:00

You could not be more wrong.

Surv1ver · 2024-03-25T18:16:16+00:00

True many of us feminists (globalt) do just want equal rights for everyone. The problem is that in the western part of the world the really big and influential feminists are actively working against gender quality, human rights and even fundamental women’s rights. For instance NOW and the, now dead, equal parenting bill in Florida.

ConfirmedCynic · 2024-03-25T19:58:59+00:00

Right, and thus we have TV shows proclaiming "men are useless" and feminist manifestos of how all men should be killed or reduced to 10% and prominent statements like "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" and courts that are totally biased against men and complete blindness to any area where women have the advantage. Not against men at all.

jessi387 · 2024-03-25T20:06:10+00:00

Maybe it’s a sign of progress that feminists feel the need to come here and troll more often now. They have to acknowledge that we exist a little more

Question for op though… if feminist are all for equality… why is it that the National Organization for women actively oppose the creation of men’s shelters, oppose equal custody, and oppose helping boys who are academically struggling ?

AllGearedUp · 2024-03-25T20:54:47+00:00

It looks like you're just playing games with words. This is the same argument that people use for antifa. "It means anti fascist, so if you disagree with them you must be ok with fascism".

There are many people who can themselves feminists who are misandrists. The "movement" of feminism is often totally fine with blaming everything on men and hating them for being born as males.

Ideally there would be no need for the terms of "women's Rights" or "men's Rights". Everyone deserves fair treatment and the fact is that these simple and uninteresting differences are often used by ignorant people to discriminate.

The reason I pay attention to men's rights is that people tend to think it's ok when men are discriminated against. You can tell people that there are not nearly enough shelters for men, for example, and there is no reaction. You can tell them that more men are raped than women and again, no real concern. Meanwhile feminists are still going on about the long debunked wage gap, while largely ignoring fgm.

Xarcell · 2024-03-25T21:08:17+00:00

Try watching "The Red Pill" documentary by an award winning feminist. Its free with ads on Vudu or Fandango At Home. You have to be willing to listen to the other side with an open mind.

AlfalfaSpecialist972 · 2024-03-25T21:34:05+00:00

let me see…. at my workplace, there are programs to grow women’s career… nothing for men… there are even spaces for women to network and help each other… try creating that for men, lol… pool of candidates needs to be balanced in an industry that is male dominated simply due to natural differences between men and women… oh, and there are even programs for my daughter and nothing for my son. nothing against men, sure.. sure…

astrodonnie · 2024-03-25T18:14:05+00:00

No, I don't think I will.

Other-Medium5577 · 2024-03-25T18:34:27+00:00

Really?
https://youtu.be/80JqoyaL-p4?si=MjBR2tik-cQYo8Zt Any questions? Just try to imagine a reverse situation. Don't hurt your brain imagining such a thing, it's impossible and you know it.

CaptainBamalam · 2024-03-25T19:57:46+00:00

We typically find what we are searching for. If you look for oppression by men, you will find it. If you look to be a victim, you'll find yourself becoming one.

I looked for answers from the feminists I critique and I got banned from the feminism subreddit as a result by trying to find a middle ground in giving a voice to men in regards to their babies being born and that #mybodymychoice is NOT the answer.

If feminists can find a way to get rights WITHOUT stealing mens rights, I am all for it.

But i CAN NOT get behind a movement that bans the opposite side of the aisle from having a voice.

The_Glass_Arrow · 2024-03-25T21:02:08+00:00

What modern day issue does feminist focus on? Everything on both sides is a social issue. r/mensright mostly focus on how men can cope with social issues. r/feminism focus is how women are put down by something minor and how its men's fault, and supporting victim mentality.

We have more laws that protect women then men. Any equality fight is against 60+ year old people who arent going to change.

StarZax · 2024-03-25T23:07:26+00:00

Maybe listen to why people are saying this and THEN answer to that if you want to have a conversation. You're not saying anything here

Stardread1997 · 2024-03-26T02:28:57+00:00

Smells like desperation OP

karn39393939 · 2024-03-26T03:34:01+00:00

Op, you need to listen up for a moment. I'm saying this respectfully. Feminism is about women and women's rights. It is not about equality. That said the feminist movement has gone way past it's original purpose. Now it has turned into a man hating cult. And I do mean that. As far as the proof of this, it's in videos on YouTube. It's in tiktok reels. It's in mainstream media. I don't know if you're just a troll or you actually believe this. You are the one that needs to wake up. Women have talked about inequality for a long time. Here's something that they don't talk about though. What about the inequality that happens in the court system, the family court system in regards to men? The overwhelming statistical data shows that men get taken advantage of in family Court and in marriage and when it comes to his kids. You cannot debate this because the proof is there. This has been this way since before feminism started. So if you're going to talk about inequality for women, we need to talk about inequality for men too.

barkmagician · 2024-03-25T18:14:35+00:00

feminists are not “against men”

you mean like how they accuse "men in the past were fking like pigs"?

mr right who was tall/handsome/famous/wealthy - the typical attributes of the usual playboy. a very thin percentage of men. less than 20%.

your "mr right" pumped and ghosted you. and yet somehow you accused majority of men for being "pigs".

reverbiscrap · 2024-03-25T21:03:22+00:00

Yes, more women (teens) coming out to 'son' the wayward men 🤣🤣🤣

Can the mods lock this thread now? Its run its course.

Acrobatic_Sport_7664 · 2024-03-25T21:30:18+00:00

Thanks for attempting to engage. However, evidence would indicate otherwise.

mhk23 · 2024-03-25T23:54:39+00:00

Women want the rights of men, privileges of being women (chivalry) and the accountability of children.

Feminism has become female chauvinism.

Feminism has masculinized women.

Chasing education, career advancement, status and wealth are masculine metrics of success. These are qualities women find attractive in men. Not vice versa. Feminism has scammed women to pursue these metrics for the past 3-4 generations.

Men find beauty as the primary attractive quality. Her career, education and etc are a bonus but it doesn’t make her hotter in a man’s eyes. A 42 year old female professor isn’t as attractive as a 21 year female super model or IG model. Women will shame men for their preferences but we are supposed to accept their standards.

Women fall in love with what they hear. Men fall in love with what they see. That’s why women wear makeup and men lie. Both are deceptive practices.

A women’s personal worth is not correlated with her attractiveness to the opposite gender. Women love to conflate the 2 and use that as an attack vector against men.

Misogyny is unacceptable but misandry is? Toxic masculinity is not acceptable but toxic femininity is?

Read The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi.

Blauwpetje · 2024-03-26T06:32:32+00:00

Many, maybe most MRA’s started as feminists and then woke up. You shout ‘wake up’ but actually wants them to fall asleep again.

AngryFrog24 · 2024-03-26T12:58:38+00:00

A lot of modern radical feminists are against men, or at the very least blame all men for all the ills of the world. It's always "toxic masculinity", "teach boys/men not to rape", "men are dangerous", "the patriarchy" etc. Men are spoken about almost exclusively in a negative and accusatory context by modern feminists.

I'm not saying literally all feminists are blatant misandrists, but I'm saying that the feminist narrative is usually negative when it comes to men, and a lot of women who are feminists and dislike men or have an issue with men may gravitate towards those kinds of negative narratives.

If you're a feminist woman and you don't hate men, then that's great! I'm not talking about you and I do think there's some more "old school" (second wave) feminists who care more about equality than the narrative that all men are bad, violent or need to be "fixed" by feminism.

I would be a hypocrite if I condemned all feminist women just for being feminists, because I don't like how some feminists condemn all men in the "manosphere" (men's rights, MGTOW, red pill). Sure, there are misogynists among some of these people (in particular extreme red pillers/incels), but a lot of the "manosphere" is either just men who feel misunderstood and not heard, or men who want to address inequalities that men face, or both.

Hell, I even have a bit of sympathy for some women who dislike and distrust men, because they've been abused and/or violently assaulted by men in the past, including their own fathers, brothers, boyfriends, husband, or a male stranger. In the same vein, I understand why some men feel negative towards women because they too have been abused, lied to, cheated on, mocked and mistread by women. Obviously, there's a difference in physical power between most men and most women, but you'll be surprised by the stories of men who've experienced being raped or sexually assaulted by women, particularly while they're drunk or on drugs. Then there's of course underage boys who experience abuse and rape at the hands of grown women.

NefariousnessOwn5465 · 2024-03-26T14:48:21+00:00

Can you explain what rights women don't have?

Jazzlike-Sky8036 · 2024-03-26T22:28:51+00:00

Oh please, its like if I made a group about promoting equality between india and Pakistan, and then named that group as 'pakistanism' ,don't think people are fools

It's not just the name, all you do is talk about women's issues and not only not talk to men's actual issues, but downplay and dismiss them

That equality part is just marketing

Fly-away77 · 2024-03-25T19:39:44+00:00

Bruh

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2024-03-25T23:10:21+00:00

They don't want to be equal with average men, they want to be equal with the top 5% of men.

sorebum405 · 2024-03-25T23:45:27+00:00

You don't get to define feminism for people,based on what you want people to believe.You actually have to make a case for why feminism is about equality.This requires that you actually provide evidence.Imagine if we could all just prove ourselves not guilty by simply saying we didn't do what we were accused of doing.No one would be held accountable then.

mhk23 · 2024-03-25T23:56:07+00:00

How do you explain this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/s/H8QYdghzwN

No-Recognition-4033 · 2024-03-26T07:18:25+00:00

There's a handful of prominent feminists that are relatively respected in these circles, but feminism has a highly political and shady past, and there are particular ideas, groups, and people tied to it whether you like it or not.

Camille Paglia and Christina Hoff Somers are a couple who are quite well respected.

BeepBeepYeah7789 · 2024-03-26T13:30:26+00:00

In other words, wake up and smell the bovine scatology.

Beast2344 · 2024-03-26T15:05:38+00:00

Troll

Fancy_Still_9918 · 2024-03-28T01:30:25+00:00

Feminists care not for girls, they only hate the men.

amongstTheIdiots · 2024-03-30T15:35:15+00:00

Bullshit. That is simply untrue.

Fantastic_Witness391 · 2024-03-25T20:49:26+00:00

As a 19F in college, looking forward to taking courses about gender / sociology, as I continue to broaden my understanding of rights of both men and women, I would have to rank Postmodern / black feminism at the top, Liberal feminism in the middle, and radical feminism at the bottom.

According to the "introduction to Sociology 10th Seagull addition " written by Anthony Giddens, Mitchel Duneier, Richard P. AppleBaum, and Deborah Carr. The Feminist theory is described as a "sociological perspective that centrality of gender in analyzing the social world and particularly the uniqueness experienced of women." (pg. 283) From this, sprouts 3 to 4 forms of feminism: Radical feminism, Liberal Feminism, Black Feminism, and Post-modern Feminism.

Radical feminism: "The form of feminist theory that posits that gender inequality is the result of male domination in all aspects of social and economic life." (pg. 283) Radical feminists support the idea of eradicating a system that doesn't benefit them, which leads me to the next branch of liberal feminism.

Liberal feminism: "The form of feminist theory that posits that gender inequality is produced by unequal access to civil rights and certain social resources, such as education and employment, based on sex. Liberal feminists tend to seek solutions through changes of in legislation that ensure that the rights of individuals are protected." (pg 282)

When liberal feminism is compared to radical feminism, Liberal feminism tends to think outside of the box, and work their way through the government system naturally and gradually, rather than overthrowing the system. (pg.283) "they are more moderate in their aims and methods than radical feminists who call for an overthrow of the existing system." (Tong 2009).

Now to debunk radical feminist theories on the patriarchy according to page 284 "Patriarchy does not leave room for historical and cultural variation. It ignores the important influence of race, class, and ethnicity on the nature of women's subordination."

This is where Post modern and Black feminism plays a role in this-

Black feminism: "Black feminists reject the idea of a single unified gender oppression that is experienced evenly by all women and argue that early feminist analysis reflected the specific concerns of white, middle-class women." (Pg. 285)

If "the idea of a single unified gender oppression that is experienced evenly by all women" is rejected by black feminism, would those same issues be correlated with men's?

Post modern Feminism: "The feminist perspective that challenges the idea of a unitary basis of identity and experience shared by all women. Post modern feminists reject the claim that there is a grand theory that can explain the position of the women in society, or that there is any single universal essence or "category" of "woman." Instead, Postmodern feminism encourages the acceptance of many different standpoints as equally valid." (pg.285)

If you have read this entire comment, you can find this book on the website internet archive: Introduction to sociology : Giddens, Anthony, author : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive.

Amazon Kindle: Introduction to Sociology (Seagull Twelfth Edition) - Kindle edition by Giddens, Anthony, Duneier, Mitchell, Appelbaum, Richard P., Carr, Deborah. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

and Open stax: Introduction to Sociology 3e - OpenStax

FoxKnocker · 2024-03-26T11:36:17+00:00

I’ll just ask one question: Do you think that quotes for women on executive board members and other leadership roles should be a thing?

Dry-Pianist1853 · 2024-03-27T10:28:28+00:00

Feminism is a terrible thing. They are just female incels

Main-Tiger8593 · 2024-03-28T05:36:20+00:00

feminism vs mens rights activism

Stripes1974 · 2024-03-28T05:51:00+00:00

You're right.

Men and women are *not* fully equal. But they are equitable.

And while *you* may be a feminist who believes in equality, *not all feminists* "only want equal rights for women and men"- *some* feminists want rights given to women, and rights removed from men. Some feminists want behaviors that are beneficial to women enhanced, and behaviors that are beneficial to men reduced. Some feminists want to normalize doing to men, what they feel that men did to women 50 years ago. Mind you, that latter is not equality- that's revenge.

And you're right- as much as many of us men also wish it was true- that men and women were equal- it's not, and you too can find many videos made by women and by so-called feminists that will explain why women are viewed and treated-- in some ways-- better than men.

Fixed that for ya.

krackedy · 2024-03-25T18:01:24+00:00

I have no issue with feminism. I think it's even helped me in some ways as a man.

I just also care about issues outside their focus.

Title	You guys need to wake up and realize feminists are not “against men”
Author	nova_dova
Upvotes	0
Comments	234
Date	March 25, 2024 5:52 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1bnk29r/you_guys_need_to_wake_up_and_realize_feminists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/you-guys-need-to-wake-up-and-realize-feminists-are.1512762 https://theredarchive.com/post/1512762

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