Why doesn't society just tell boys/men what girls/women want?

dakru · 2017-07-30T14:42:42+00:00

We have to remember that society is a bunch of individuals, and they don't always give the same message. Some guys get perfectly fine advice. But the ones who don't? I think it happens because the advice:

Has the woman's comfort in mind rather than the man's success.
Is more interested in portraying women in a positive light than helping men succeed.
Assumes a man who's already attractive.
Comes from a person who really does think that "be nice and respectful" is enough for sexual attraction.
Is aimed at making the target of the advice feel good in the short-term rather than helping them out in the long-term.

Butt-Factory · 2017-07-30T15:50:10+00:00

Another explanation is that older people and parents aren't aware of how dating is changing and give advice based on how dating was for them.

pinkgoldrose · 2017-07-30T15:19:52+00:00

Because not everything is about sex and it's better to function as a society if everyone is nice instead of being out to get each other and further their selfish interests. Women are also told to be nice and respectful, much more often than men.

If strictly talking about sex, I'm sorry, but I like guys who are themselves and who are nice and respectful. It's really all I ask for. I hate an assertive asshole who goes to the gym, especially if he dresses metrosexual, but maybe that's just me.

wtknight · 2017-07-30T14:41:13+00:00

Society benefits more from most men being average, productive betas.

Cunari · 2017-07-30T14:51:37+00:00

Because it's considered socially unacceptable to even tell someone they may have a problem that needs fixing, our society coddles everyone, so the platitudes you hear just affirm the idea people are fine as they are just need to do it more because that's what's considered polite.

Personally I consider it a huge disservice to anyone asking for advice but there you have it.

storffish · 2017-07-30T15:22:29+00:00

I learned how to get girls growing up from watching older neighborhood kids. I was a chunky stoner then and I'm a slightly more cynical chunky stoner now. why do white nerds think its some sacred arcane knowledge that chicks like hot and confident guys? y'all can invent computer programs but you cant deduce how to get a bitch out of her panties?

but I'll play ball and pretend like my mom locked me in a closet and didn't let me ever socialize with other kids or talk to them about girls. do men's magazines not count as part of society? because cover to cover they're literally all about gym bullshit and how to dress to get girls and shit like that. what about porn? are you telling me y'all never watched porn? or any movie with more than a PG rating? come on.

BiggerDthanYou · 2017-07-30T16:58:32+00:00

Society should tell men to : stay/get fit, hit the gym, be assertive and confident, dress well etc

And society does.

Just because TRPers apparently have been brought up in the woods without any access to television or magazines doesn't mean that normal men didn't hear about this.

All those things are common sense because literally everyone knows about this. And that's simply because it isn't some hidden secret and I can't even begin to grasp how someone couldn't have heard about it.

[deleted] · 2017-07-30T15:29:34+00:00

I am pretty sure society encourages everyone to exercize and stay fit and stuff like "dress well and be confident" is pretty common advice.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-07-30T14:47:11+00:00

Oh, because there's no such thing as Society

exit_sandman · 2017-07-30T15:20:53+00:00

Because men fulfilling their own sexual strategy tends to be at the expense of women, especially where abundance mentality is concerned.

Society should tell men to : stay/get fit, hit the gym, be assertive and confident, dress well etc .

And this is all fine and well, but doesn't include abundance mentality.

Here's my analysis why men don't get honest and straightforward redpilled advice.

Quote:

Ask a bunch of women what they think of Don Draper, and they'll probably start drooling and leaking. Ask the same women how a man should behave in order to appeal to women, and odds are that they say something that amounts to "don't be like Don Draper".

A position I am reading over and over again from opponents of the red pill is that "you don't need TRP for self-improvement, because everything that works you'll find anywhere else". The same way women who invaded the seduction space and diluted the message (from the male-centric "acquire game in order to bed as many chicks as you want" to the female-centric "acquire game so you're more interesting to women"), their idea of a "sanitized red pill" would be one that exclusively promotes "clean" self-improvement like lifting, dressing well, being stable and respectable, developing interesting hobbies and somehow magically becoming confident. What they woefully ignore is that confidence, abundance mentality, game etc. don't materialize out of thin air.

Butt-Factory · 2017-07-30T16:36:00+00:00

There is a pattern on this sub of men considering differing opinions of individual women as contrary or confusing.

"Woman A said this thing and woman B said something else! Hypocrites!"

There's no way "society" can give advice that will work for every man for any woman. Men and women are individuals with divergent abilities and preferences, no blanket advice will work.

Stop looking for a shortcut.

Electra_Cute · 2017-07-30T14:31:22+00:00

Why would "society" give people these messages?

zayelion · 2017-07-30T16:06:57+00:00

I dont think women would benefit from that. "Just be yourself" is a protection response of a sexual evaluation mechanism. Women use quick judgments to easily asses a mans worth. They dont really want you screwing with that tool. Its like expecting a lesbian to tell you to dress up like a woman and play a trap against another lesbian.

Both sexes have two sexual strategies which conflict or conform. "Slutty" women that have lost sexually will say they want a "strong bad boy", women that see themselves at an advantage or losing advantage will ask for the respect man because that is what they need.

They aren't lying, information is just hidden from them. Males have the goal of sex with good looking women period, women have the goal of sex with good looking men and if they have offspring those offspring being cared for and herself. Men that are "themselves and respectful", are just better at that role. You could call them beta but they ensure that the children and the woman are properly care fore better than a risk taking violent guy that may have to split his resources amidst many families.

Railed pussy, stressed, poor, scared your mate is cheating, or he is, and scared of him in general because he is uncontrollable in anyway, children not cared for. Versus rare sex (but you can cheat), relaxed, well off, mate under your thumb, children care for.

Not dying seems important, being respectful seems therefore important hence why its the default answer.

Drippyskippy · 2017-07-30T15:34:03+00:00

Same reason why society tells obese women that they are beautiful.

BookwormJane · 2017-07-30T15:26:13+00:00

We live in a world that pressures you to be the best version of yourself, not because it would benefit you, but because it would PLEASE other people. So the motivation is wrong. So expecting "society" to teach you anything is quite naive.

But anyway, men are ADULTS. Most people nowadays have internet, and if they don't they live in the real world and they have the tools and ways to fulfill their goals. If you're fat, you know that if you eat less (especially less carbs) and do exercises you will lose weight. If you're unattractive, and don't know how to dress better, there are many websites that could help you with that, many department stores have stylists and personal shoppers as well.

Anyway, if these guys are plain losers it's not society's fault. It's THEIR OWN fault. Problem is, these guys will never acknowledge their own responsibility for being a failure. That would hurt too much. Then they choose to blame women for their singledom ("they're hypergamous, that's why they don't want me") or society ("society doesn't teach us men the right things, it's just too gynocentric").

If they took responsibility for once, it would be easier for them to solve their own issues.

TheBlackQuill · 2017-07-30T14:39:40+00:00

We often hear about society telling men to "just be themselves" or "be nice and respectful" etc.

Who is society? You are reifying concept here... Society can't tell people to do anything. It is nothing but a concept of people living together in a community...

MyMorningCovfefe · 2017-07-30T17:01:51+00:00

Because the truth paints women in a poor light.

grandaddychimp · 2017-07-30T19:04:18+00:00

Because what girls/women really want (Alphas), and telling 80+% of men they're not what women are sexually attracted to, is politically incorrect.

Girls want guys who just "get" it and guys who don't get it naturally aren't worthy of being told by women what they need to do to be alpha. These men repulse women, and so women tell men to do things that will make them even more beta which further repulses more women. It's all subconscious of course, it's not like there's some kind of conscious conspiracy among women to betafy men.

Littleknownfacts · 2017-07-30T14:32:18+00:00

If life were easy, there wouldn't be any point to living it.

IIHotelYorba · 2017-07-30T16:51:24+00:00

Because society is still reeling from "women are the greatest mystery in the universe" total bullshit narrative.

themoderation · 2017-07-30T15:42:19+00:00

Because there are 1000000000 things in life other than getting laid and being attractive. And a world where everyone modelled all of their behavior on getting laid would be sad and boring. Even in just the sphere of romance, sex is only a portion of what's important. Those qualities might get you laid they won't make you good at relationships. All of my straight female friends that are happily married or in happy LTRs are with men that are not afraid of being themselves, respectful, open, and compassionate. They didn't play mind games or orient themselves around getting laid. They actually have personalities and substance which they worked to develop. Women would DEFINITELY not be better off in your scenario.

The world doesn't revolve around getting laid. If yours does you might want to make some adjustments.

MagicGainbow · 2017-07-31T01:01:24+00:00

Because it would make women look bad and is therefore misogynist.

AutoModerator · 2017-07-30T14:24:44+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Aaren_Augustine · 2017-07-30T14:40:24+00:00

You need to get it or you aren't truly dominant. I mean, it couldn't be the men are built...

Of course, do you think that helps society?

[deleted] · 2017-07-30T15:00:14+00:00

Society should tell men to : stay/get fit, hit the gym, be assertive and confident, dress well etc .

If the advice is so hard, nobody's gonna do it anyway. I mean, people are sort of aware that they should try to be fit, but most don't do it or at least let themselves go when they are older. Besides, being told to be "assertive and confident" won't make me assertive and confident.

Women also would benefit from there being more attractive guys.

Also, it seems to me that women are doing fine anyway without your concern.

[deleted] · 2017-07-30T16:22:05+00:00

At its core, the American political/economic system requires a large number of people who place hard work above their personal wellbeing.

This is an unnatural state, as human nature dictates that we always seek to serve our own individual self interest. From an economic standpoint, this inherent desire must be overridden in order to have a sufficiently productive workforce. (Also interesting to note that feminism=more workers=more economic output)

In a political sense, self aware people who pursue their own agenda without regard for the larger economic/political interest are a threat to the status quo, and cannot be tolerated in large numbers.

This culminates in a society where people are taught to put hard work into others as well as external pursuits, but not into themselves internally.

decoy88 · 2017-07-30T18:35:16+00:00

I think you're confusing "Society" with Hollywood. Which is essentially feel-good nerd fantasies greenlit by producers that were bullied in High School. Be smarter.

piffslinger · 2017-07-30T18:53:08+00:00

Society doesn't tell anyone anything. It is a construct made up to talk about everyone at once, and like many such sweeping concepts is often used ambiguously.

Like here. "Society" does tell boys what girls want. It also tells boys lies about what girls want. Then, to break it down further, and this might throw you for a whirl, but not all girls want exactly the same thing!

You're looking for a formula dude, which is basically what all of the red pil isl from what I've seen. The confidence that comes from assuring yourself with red pill ideas is probably the most important factor in getting you laid the sub can offer.

Obviously good-looking people have an enormous advantage in this greatest of life's pursuits, so the stuff about grooming and working out is definitely key too, but past all that all you've got is charm. Make a woman laugh and she'll suck you dry my boy-but don't go expecting to be sucked dry the second you get the laughs, capisce?

Idk what I'm trying to say here. I guess just that interpersonal relations can't be broken down into a formula, and this "society" you keep listening to may have dominant or fashionable messages coursing through it from time to time, but is ultimately the same society that passed you on to the red pill.

monkeysinmypocket · 2017-07-30T19:55:35+00:00

Why do you need "society" to tell you what to do?

Up2Eleven · 2017-07-30T21:33:43+00:00

Society has no single message. It's usually two extremes battling it out while most people live with a combined set of sometimes contradictory values.

Willow-girl · 2017-07-30T21:43:00+00:00

We often hear about society telling men to "just be themselves" or "be nice and respectful" etc.

Aren't people of BOTH genders given this message, though?

Pillowed321 · 2017-07-31T02:36:25+00:00

Most women want traditionalist men. Society tells people what feminists want them to, and feminists don't want to admit that women hate it when men treat them like equals. Feminists can't admit that women want a man who takes charge and is dominant, so society won't tell men that.

Ultramegasaurus · 2017-07-31T04:22:34+00:00

Society has a huge problem admitting female shallowness and primitivity exists as it does in men. This "women are better people" thing is pervasive and that's why we are told women prefer these civilized and virtous things in men when in reality they have base, unflattering instincts just like men.

Men's primitivity on the other hand is called out and also exaggerated extremely often.

rulenumber303 · 2017-07-31T05:36:31+00:00

When despite all the ways in which parents and schools try to direct them away from that outcome someone decides to over the course of years live a lifestyle that leads to them being a fat lazy meek slob, we quite reasonably assume they've made deliberate lifestyle choices after examining where that lifestyle leads to. At which point all there is left to do is tell them to at least be genuinely what they've chosen to be and not be a dick about it. That way they don't add "fake" and "jerkish" to their dating problems.

I mean seriously, do you think all the effort that was put into trying to make you play sport at school was just for shits and giggles? Do you think that when your mother told you to take off the shirt with the ketchup stains and put a clean one one... or told you the blue shirt flattered your eyes better... it was just for her own sake she was doing that?

Eastuss · 2017-07-31T07:06:56+00:00

Why doesn't society just tell boys/men what girls/women want?

What do you think TRP is supposed to be about?

[deleted] · 2017-07-31T10:07:26+00:00

Because society doesn't believe that. Society as a whole believes in the other half, the true love, that everyone is unique but equally valuable, that "healthy, loving relationship" means dating a friend first and foremost, all that naive, platitude nonsense.

You cannot expect "the society" to teach men something it doesn't even believe to be necessary to begin with.

TheBookOfSeil · 2017-07-31T20:04:47+00:00

This might've been said already, but perspective is everything. What one person finds attractive, another might not, or won't, so it's pretty impossible to say what anyone wants, other than a general list of basic necessities, like food, water, clothing, housing, etc.

Entropy-7 · 2017-07-31T20:12:36+00:00

The classic case:

Guy: What's wrong?

Girl: Well, if you don't know then I'm not going to tell you!

Women want a guy who naturally knows what she wants without her having to tell/train him. With the dawn of PUA culture, "society" has hated it because it takes that much more effort for a woman to figure out if he is a natural or if he is gaming her (whether sincerely or mendaciously).

funobtainium · 2017-08-01T04:41:22+00:00

Is this a society where GQ and Men's Health magazine don't exist?

All media basically tells men to be fit, confident, and dress well.

Shazoa · 2017-08-01T12:26:33+00:00

Society should tell men to : stay/get fit, hit the gym, be assertive and confident, dress well etc .

That isn't always good advice. The issue is that individuals like different things, and that society is made up of individuals. That might be the 'safest' advice you can give but it won't always work.

Telling someone to be confident, for example, doesn't help if that person has zero natural confidence. Getting ripped probably doesn't help as much if you're otherwise repulsuve. What constitutes dressing well varies wildly between people (I think suits look retarded, for example, while others think they're sharp).

'Be yourself' is essentially saying play to your strengths. If you're a socially awkward, alternative, untraditionally attractive fellow with niche hobbies then trying to hit the gym and dress mainstream while faking confidence is likely to go badly; you're just trying to play a game with better players than yourself.

You'll see more success seeking people similar to you rather than trying to be something you're not.

Debra_Lou · 2017-08-01T21:19:19+00:00

Not only would men benefit from the truth. Women also would benefit from there being more attractive guys.

Like a lot of stuff related to social cohesion, telling the truth is not always best in every circumstances. Might as well say to some guys they can't be attractive based on their genetics.

Dominic_Badguy · 2017-07-30T14:42:35+00:00

Because what a woman wants at 20 might not be what she wants at 30.

Title	Why doesn't society just tell boys/men what girls/women want?
Author	Dr_ChuCky
Upvotes	26
Comments	168
Date	July 30, 2017 2:24 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6qhlip/why_doesnt_society_just_tell_boysmen_what/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-doesnt-society-just-tell-boysmen-what.266686 https://theredarchive.com/post/266686

Comments