Discussion: the alleged "double standard" of sluts and studs

cuittler · 2017-06-22T19:18:32+00:00

Post has been re-flaired Q4BP, non BP please reply to the automod.

shoup88 · 2017-06-22T19:35:07+00:00

Pointing out the double standard of sluts and studs is not saying that casual sex is as easily had as a man as it is as a woman. Ease has nothing to do with it. It is simply pointing out that sex is not considered bad when had by men and women are not considered to be "taking" something from their male partners when they have casual sex with them. Regardless of the ease of casual sex, it still isn't a bad thing and when two straight people have sex neither is taking anything or devaluing the other.

NewOrder777 · 2017-06-23T00:09:24+00:00

It's such a false equivalence. Women adding n's is like taking candy from a baby.

SpaceWhiskey · 2017-06-22T19:42:59+00:00

This subject has been done to death but why not, here we go again.

The fact is, not all men think the way you do. Women with lots of previous partners tend to gravitate towards men that are fine with that. My fiancé for example doesn't care that I had sex with 8 people before I ever met him. I wouldn't want to be with someone who was hung up on it, I see posts in r/relationships all the time from women trying to deal with boyfriends who obsess over their past and make them feel shitty about it and I just wouldn't personally tolerate that in a relationship. I think pretty much all the women in is sub have said before that it's fine to have preferences. If you're a man who doesn't want a partner with lots of previous partners herself hey man, whatever. You do you. But if you're a man-slut yourself some people will view you as a hypocrite and there's nothing you can do about that, just as there's nothing sluts can do about being viewed negatively by said hypocrite in the first place. Ca va.

We have also extensively discussed virgin shaming. As a BP person, I'm not a fan of it and I try to shut it down when I see it. I don't think there's any shame in being a virgin.

BlackpilledIncel · 2017-06-22T19:38:05+00:00

I agree with you, by and large, but I personally focus more on the biological aspect of things.

Males have to prove their worth: They have to compete, toil, fight, and put their lives at risk. They make themselves worthy by adding value to the pack or the kin. Females on the other hand have intrinsic values by virtue of their wombs. They don't have to prove their worth. Additionally, females are much more important to the survival of a population. Males are more disposable because a population consisting of 10M/50F exhibits just as high a reproduction rate as 50M/50F. However, this is not true the other way round: 50M/10F has a significantly lower reproduction rate.

Now, where the gender roles come into play: It is well known that a larger proportion of the females got to reproduce compared to males (1, 2). Combined with the fact that sexual selection is a crucial component of evolution, this leads to the conclusion that females are natural choosers whereas males are natural initiators. This is true for a big part of animal kingdom.

Where the social stigma comes from: What we're really assessing is not someone's "sluttiness", rather it's how well they perform their respective role. A woman with a high N-count did not do her job as a chooser well. She chose badly, made bad decisions, and is thus shamed. A man with a high N-count on the other hand is praised because he is assumed to be of high value. He did his role as a "value provider" and initiator so well that a plethora of women deemed him worthy. In RP lingo, this goes under the name social proof, I think.

I personally think that it is neither advisable nor entirely possible to stifle our biology. We like to think of ourselves as higher than animals and above our innate instincts but that's just delusional in my opinion.

sublimemongrel · 2017-06-23T01:11:10+00:00

IMO high value men don't care about Ns so much, because they don't look it as "others got the milk for free." High value men don't get in relationship for the sexual transaction aspect of it, primarily, because high value men can get laid regardless. But idk that's just been my theory. I think if you're capable of getting sex pretty easily you're not going to get into an LTR for that reason alone, hence you're not going to view it as some "commodity" you're upset that she "traded" with others. Plus a lot of high value men are high N themselves, their mindset about sex is a bit different.

ClarityofDisaster · 2017-06-22T19:49:30+00:00

Sluts are not bad people or anything, they're just unattractive for relationships.

But this is true of both sexes. I doubt you'll find many women who want a "stud" who's dick has been in 50 different vaginas.

SmurfESmurferson · 2017-06-22T20:41:38+00:00

What's mystifying to me is that TRP seems to chunk of sluts who could have commitment, but don't want it at that time (for any variety of reasons).

Are there broken sluts, trying to attain commitment through random sex? Sure, and I agree those girls are unfit for relationships.

But there are plenty of higher value women who slut it up during their youth, and have no problem landing a high quality man when they choose to.

RockinSocksII · 2017-06-22T21:07:02+00:00

Because we don't see sex as a transaction, just something fun you do.

[deleted] · 2017-06-22T21:48:15+00:00

I think a lot of people look too much into this. It's just left-over monkey shit. Women have always been better than men in regards to sex. They've always valued sex, and themselves more than broads do now. They were more loyal. They were the gatekeepers. Sex was for their man, and no one else.

While guys will fuck a wet hole in the wall if it means they can nut before bed.

Personally, I'm a pretty traditional guy. I'll have sex before marriage and all that. But, I lose all respect for a woman that puts out on the first date. In my eyes, she has as much respect for her body as an obese person does.

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BiggerDthanYou · 2017-06-22T21:57:08+00:00

I'm sure this probably has been discussed before but BP will claim that it's unfair that when men have a lot of sex, its applauded, but when women do it it is shamed.

Plus that outside in the real world most lifes of sluts aren't like the revenge fantasies. They can find partners despite MGTOWers reveling at the thought of all the women that never slept with them dying alone.

And that women also don't function the same way as TRPers; solipsism isn't the same as reality. They generally don't think that players are totally cool just because they have a high n-count; if anything they might think that he's just a player and not relationship material.

Sure players will still find relationships, but so do sluts.

Do people realize that being a slut is not as hard as being a stud?

Which still doesn't mean that they have to give it away easily.

One can be a slut while still having standards on their partners. The most common type of hookups is with friends or acquaintances. Even most sluts don't, or only rarely, sleep with strangers.

Just because it could be easy doesn't mean that they are easy.

Being a slut however just shows you don't have much self control.

But why are you judging her ability to control herself by her sex life and not by her actual ability to control herself? It's like you guys assume that she either has casual sex or a productive life, but of course you aren't prejudiced against sluts in any way.

Why should she even control her sex life in the first place just because you don't like the thought of her sleeping with other men? And if she didn't control it on any way why doesn't she just rack up a N-count in the thousands?

Will BP admit that one is clearly harder than the other?

But it isn't hard for Chad either.

And why does the hardness matter? I can go shopping for food even though hunting would be harder, but that doesn't make me a bad person.

However the idea of dating a woman with a lot of partners isn't exactly appealing

More women than men find a high n-count unappealing and most men don't really care.

You'd like to be special to her sexually, but know she's seen dick buffet in the past years.

Most guys didn't grow up with Disney movies only and around women wearing chasety belts. They don't put sex on such a pedestal and know that everyone is having sex.

You wonder if she has any lingering desires.

Which could be judged much better by actual signs of lingering issues instead of just assuming that every woman that has sex with a handful of guys must be broken just because she doesn't share your prudish values.

It's also kind of embarrassing. Her past partners will think "damn what a chump" when they hear you're dating

No they don't. They might also think "goddamn why didn't she stay with me?" or nothing at all because they are dating a chick with a past as well because frankly most people that have sex and relationships don't care all that much because hookups show one that all kinds of women have casual sex and not only the broken ones that other guys complain about.

And let's be honest if the girl is super high n-count, and everyone knows, you'll be looked down for dating her to begin with.

People that have casual sex don't care about people that visit church. They are still partying and having fun while the others are praying.

You decided to but the cow when everyone got it for free.

But why does that even matter in the first place? He probably also got her for free in the first place but they moved from hooking up to dating because that's just the way the market works nowadays.

BP also ignore the "slut shame" of men, virgin shaming.

Which should be totes okay by your logic.

Just let me remind you of

Being a stud shows you have the ability to attract many women with your attractiveness/charm/money whatever.

Well if you aren't a stud it would follow that you must lack some of those.

Women are sexually disgusted by male virgins openly, but there's no great "virgin walks" going.

But that's the thing. There are many "virgin walks" happening everyday, but they are all alone. Walking through the hallways with slouched shoulders, head down and hands on their pockets. They feel watched and walk like a robot.

Virgin shaming is primarily shaming traits that will keep them virgins, but not necessarily at all virgins. You can even be considered a "virgin" even if you technically had sex.

And when this comes up in argument they go "oh well virgin men shouldn't be shamed either" but it's kind of a cop out b ecause no one is fighting against virgin shaming

Some feminists do

Sluts are not bad people or anything, they're just unattractive for relationships

For you. You've got to consider that your personal opinions aren't facts.

And men have no obligation to value the traits in women that women value in men

They don't have to value whatever unattractive traits they associate with sluts, but they shouldn't just expect any woman that isn't a virgin to be broken beyond repair.

shadowrangerfs · 2017-06-23T01:31:48+00:00

It's not really a double standard. It's that men care a lot more about a woman's partner count than women do about men's. How many women have rejected a man due to his "number" alone. It's the same as how women care more about financial status than men do. There would be more pressure on men to keep their "number" low if women started only dating and having sex with men who have a low "number". There would be more pressure on women to be high earners if men started to only date and have sex with women who made lots of money.

That being said, I think the "stud" praise comes from the fact that it's harder for a man to get lots of women. Men are so easy that most average and even below average looking women could bang a different guy every night if she wanted to. The average guy couldn't get a different woman every night even if he lowered his standards to the point that he didn't even find the women that he was banging attractive. So when a woman bangs 5 different guys in a week, people think "big deal. 90% of women could do that". If a guy bangs 5 different women in a week people think "how the hell did he pull that off"?

GridReXX · 2017-06-23T14:19:23+00:00

It's a male value judgement.

Everyone likes the pleasures sex can potentially provide.

Sex is harder to obtain for hetero men than it is for hetero women.

The latter doesn't mean anything to women. It doesn't stop her from enjoying the pleasures of sex with whom she chooses.

Men are free to call themselves "studs" and women "sluts" if that makes them feel better about themselves and the "plight of straight men."

Men are allowed to decide a woman who he feels was handed sex too easily and indulged in it is "bad relationship material."

Women are allowed to decide a man she feels focuses too much of his energy on "obtaining sex" or "getting laid" is also "bad relationship material."

I've see men and women miss out on relationships with certain people because value judgments were placed on their promiscuous sexual reputations.

Oh wells.

writingtoc · 2017-06-22T19:22:57+00:00

If "studs" think being a slut is shameful, they shouldn't be studs imo since they're encouraging slut behavior.

wub1234 · 2017-06-22T19:57:04+00:00

BP also ignore the "slut shame" of men, virgin shaming. Women are sexually disgusted by male virgins openly, but there's no great "virgin walks" going. And when this comes up in argument they go "oh well virgin men shouldn't be shamed either" but it's kind of a cop out b ecause no one is fighting against virgin shaming

Women can't be that disgusted by virgins per se because every heterosexual virgin loses his virginity to a woman.

If you are a virgin at a certain stage of your existence then it can be a turn-off for women. But women are generally kinder than men (despite the fact that many guys on here are determined to believe the opposite for some bizarre reason; whereas I would cite as evidence, for example, the fact that women dominate caring professions) and are far less likely to be verbally abusive towards someone.

A male virgin is far more likely to be abused by a man, so is a promiscuous woman. All of the bullies in school and college are male. That's the reality of life. You can't have a virgin march to enlighten attitudes of the opposite sex, because the abusers of virgins aren't female, won't give a shit about the march, and it will simply be humiliating for those guys who participate.

RedPillDetox · 2017-06-22T21:04:27+00:00

It's also kind of embarrassing. Her past partners will think "damn what a chump" when they hear you're dating. And let's be honest if the girl is super high n-count, and everyone knows, you'll be looked down for dating her to begin with. You decided to buy the cow when everyone got it for free.

This has to be the most fucked up belief there is in this whole stud vs slut debate. I, myself, am completly guilty of holding this same belief in the past. But this is completly ridiculous once you analyze it.

Simply put, this implies that if you date a "slut" you're dumb because you're paying for something others had for free, the payment being commitment. This implies that the only reason why you offer commitment to a woman is in exchange for sex. This is completly fucked up pussy whipped mentality. And of easy solving as well. Don't commit (just) for sex. Commit for the companionship, the exclusiveness of the relationship, intimacy, love,connection and for spending good times together with a cool girl.

Also, why would you be bothered with other guys thinking you're a chump? TRP emphasizes so much on being against "external validation" and yet hand over the control of their own love life to the opinion of other dudes? Let's put it like this: If you're satisfied with your girl and she treats you correctly it doesn't matter who she has had sex with.

OurThrownAwayDreams · 2017-06-22T22:59:04+00:00

i hear from many guys myself included, whom do no like sluts is because they themselves do like not casual sex and see sex as something special you save for the person you love in a relationship. if that is how some men value it wouldnt they want woman who value it the same way or the relationship will fail, as it always does from what i see.

rulenumber303 · 2017-06-23T09:49:13+00:00

You'd like to be special to her sexually, but know she's seen dick buffet in the past years. You wonder if she has any lingering desires.

OK, replying because on this I am quite BP... and think RP is being beyond stupid.

Virgin does not mean permanently ignorant. You don't get to just marry a virgin and then be lacklustre forever without running a huge risk she'll twig to what is going on, extrapolate what her unmet needs seem to be from the information she has now acquired about herself through having had one sexual partner, and then make herself a plan to "fix" the situation by going out and getting that experience with other men.

Or to put it simply, virgins can form lingering desires you are incapable of meeting.

[deleted] · 2017-06-23T21:16:15+00:00

Why would you respect someone who dumps so much effort into something so shallow and transitory?

liquorandwhores94 · 2017-06-22T21:48:24+00:00

I am a woman who has had sex with tons of guys. It's not my goal, they've just accumulated over time and I'm cool with that. It has not affected my character, I think I'm lovely company and very caring and I have cool interests and I'm communicative and I like myself :) That being said, if I meet a guy and he gives me any indication that he might correlate my worth as a human and a partner with the number of guys I've slept with, I feel very empowered to kick his disrespectful ass to the filthy curb where it belongs. I don't fuck with trash like that.

The really great thing is that if YOU don't like me because you think I have no value as a woman because I've slept with lots of men, I actually think you're totally worthless as a person and totally repulsive too. So you don't like me, I don't like you, and you can go fly a fuckin kite. More and more women are taking ownership of their sexuality and hope women collectively decide that we're gonna do what we want with our bodies and that if you think a woman's worth is affected by how many guys she's fucked, that you're basically never able to get laid. I don't feel sorry for hoping that. I genuinely believe you deserve it. Hopefully you take a hard look at your values if you hold these views because they're fucked up. :)

Title	Discussion: the alleged "double standard" of sluts and studs
Author	Fdreal
Upvotes	16
Comments	435
Date	June 22, 2017 7:11 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6ivqd1/discussion_the_alleged_double_standard_of_sluts/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-the-alleged-double-standard-of-sluts.267440 https://theredarchive.com/post/267440

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