Hollywood is meant to be about wish fulfillment. So why do some people, mostly men, get angry when they realize that real life is not like that?

wtknight · 2017-03-24T11:21:14+00:00

Probably because they didn't have someone who, when they were growing up, didn't teach them what life is really like.

KrispyMcSockington · 2017-03-24T12:44:18+00:00

I don't think you can say "mostly men" when women were the ones insisting movies, magazine models and video game characters change so they feel less insecure about their looks.

Haven't seen the male equivalent of bbw porn nor has anyone changed men's roles in films or video games. Making the claim "mostly men" ignores a huge bone of contention for feminists and women in general. Among those are issues like they don't want to be reminded of their insecurities nor do they want men to give other women attention. It would require women to raise their personal standards and take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming their unhappiness on outside forces.

Eastuss · 2017-03-24T11:29:13+00:00

What makes me angry isn't that this is fiction, what makes me angry is that they show fictions to children but advertise it as if it is reality.

Kids are going to try to connect reality and fiction, take example on what they see. Disney has been doing great teaching young girls that they're high value and deserve life risking handsome wealthy princes.

The fiction in movies shouldn't be about human interactions.

reepbot · 2017-03-24T13:13:56+00:00

Most men of TRP age used to get exactly the message that films and television shows depicting love, sex and romance are how you do it. If you want a girlfriend, the Disney romcom is how you do it. You act like the male friend. The 1989 movie "Say Anything...." was held up to men of my vintage as the absolute gold standard for how you attract and get and keep a girlfriend who will love you forever. (Google it, I don't have the time to explain the plot.)

We believed it because people we trusted told us we should.

[deleted] · 2017-03-24T17:13:37+00:00

Hollywood is about consumerism. And because they want to sell you something they will of course insist that they are selling you the real thing. (I think this goes deeper, like theres some basis in Heideggers "the world as picture," "we see the world as whatever is comes into being through representedness") Why do some men get angry when they continue to not realize that and try to buy commodified masculinity in the form of many redpill schemes?

damaskrose · 2017-03-24T12:46:38+00:00

I don't think most men get angry at Hollywood for delivering wish fulfillment. I think the anger you see online is a narcissism induced anger born from feeling like you've got the right to be seen a certain way without feeling an obligation or even desire to do what is necessary to actually project that image. To give a personal example, I purposely do "not care" about my appearance and put relatively little effort into it. But I still feel frustrated when I am not found attractive and a tinge of envy when I see female desire for men, at least in the abstract. I feel that envy when I read a comment for example but not when I actually see a couple or people flirting in real life. It's kinda dissociated from real human beings. I recognize that type of anger a lot among incels and redpillers. It's when someone's self-image doesn't line up with how they're seen. That self-image might be informed by what a person sees on TV and in movies. I think that kind of thinking is over-represented on the internet. Whether it is also over-represented among men in general because it is more culturally accepted for men to think like that is another discussion. I'm not really sure and would have to look into it some more.

wvj · 2017-03-24T16:51:47+00:00

Uh, why is it mostly men?

People in general get unrealistic expectations from media. Dream girls and perfect guys, heroic accomplishment and princess pedestals, etc etc etc.

Hopefully by the time you're an adult you've figured out fantasy isn't reality.

cxj · 2017-03-24T12:45:50+00:00

[deleted]

BiggerDthanYou · 2017-03-24T12:18:55+00:00

The virgin nerd is jealous of all the Chads that constantly get chicks and despite not even believing himself that he could pull it off he manages to get the hot chick at the end of the movie and everyone is surprised? Somehow this gets understood as a regular realistic occurrence and that every nerd could pull it off instead of the nigh impossible scenario it was presented as.

Which is why I don't understand how they could understand this as BP brainwashing. Even those movies make it clear that he is less attractive and more clueless than the RP alpha Chads who are presented as actually successful with women, but somehow all those messages that hint at self improvement don't count and only the fact the the movie had a happy ending does

JaggedYellowPill · 2017-03-24T12:04:45+00:00

You're right that Hollywood is wish fulfillment, but it isn't often stated as such very explicitly, nor is it usually specified what parts of movies and TV are fantasy and what parts are realistic. When a show as ridiculous as "The Bachelor(ette)" qualifies as "reality TV," you can't fault young men or women for experiencing confusion over how "real" TV and movies should be seen as.

So, most people experience a moment where they "get it" and realize life isn't like the movies. For most people I think it's a relatively minor revelation, but for others it can have major implications. If you've built your life around the idea of a fairy tale ending or a "Leave it to Beaver" 1950s family, you may go through a grief/mourning process when you realize you aren't going to get what you thought you could have.

And the stages of grief are:

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

TLDR: Realizing life isn't like the movies can amount to losing something important to you, which leads to grief. Anger is one of the stages of grief.

[deleted] · 2017-03-24T12:48:43+00:00

I think anime is more dangerous than Hollywood ever will be.

Girls can't compete with 2D waifus.

gasparddelanuit · 2017-03-24T15:01:41+00:00

Hollywood is about making money. This is primarily done by making people want to watch things that make them feel good. The powerful influence of the content is a result of many factors, amongst which is the fact that it is usually not unambiguously fantastic. Fantasy regularly masquerades as reality and is interspersed with momentary representations of reality. This, of course, influences what people believe reality is.

Furthermore, children are not comprehensively taught about how and why media content is produced or how to filter it, whether that be the news or films. Subsequently, this hampers their ability to reliably distinguish between reality and fantasy. Naturally, many of the views that impressionable children form in their formative years will carry through to adulthood and are not easily shed. When it comes to relationships especially, most adults are not particularly good at distinguishing between reality and fantasy. The blue pill perspective about romantic love and relationships is more or less the Hollywood perspective, yet BPers here will tell you that Hollywood has not influenced them. They appear oblivious to the fact that Hollywood heavily promotes and endorses their “coincidental” view of things. The Red Pill represents a rejection of this perspective, which is a bitter pill to swallow for many, hence the anger.

So the question is really whether having to give up beliefs that were once held dear is reasonable grounds to be angry or, at least, disillusioned? If it were revealed to a BPers satisfaction that the views they held dear about relationships were false, would they be happy or sad about that? Remember, most self-declared RPers were once BPers. The difference is that Bpers are still holding on to the Hollywood fairy tale in one form or another.

Bottom line is that it’s impossible for society not to be influenced by Hollywood and the media more generally, given its prevalence. The influence is largely subliminal in how it insidiously establishes unquestioned premises and assumptions throughout society. It’s not unreasonable to think that there will be some turbulence if one breaks away or is broken away from this.

James Peck wrote of Noam Chomsky, “To confront a mind that radically alters our perception of the world is one of life’s most unsettling yet liberating experiences,” This can also be said of the red pill.

trail22 · 2017-03-24T15:41:22+00:00

I think most men and women are more aware of why women are pursued.

The anger for men is that the things they value in themselves are not valued by women and that how they want to be treated romantically is not how women want to be treated even though women often claim it is.

roe_ · 2017-03-24T15:47:53+00:00

Hollywood is meant to be about wish fulfillment

This is arguable. Have you never seen a Hollywood film that you've learnt something from?

I mean, stories generally, are meant to teach or portray something true (not in the sense of factually true, but... let's say "genuine"). Otherwise, why would we be fascinated by them?

PMmeareasontolive · 2017-03-24T16:21:56+00:00

Hollywood is fantasy but it also reflects what people believe. It reflects your myths back at you. You are told that the world is fair and if your heart is in the right place and you put in the work you will win out in the end.

The lesson is: patiently suffer now in order to be happy later.

Hero's journey and all that.

It's then dizzying to discover that the world doesn't give a single shit about you, no matter how much you try to toe the line.

Men might be angrier because they are expected to tolerate more bullshit, work shitty jobs, go to wars, not complain, etc, to get rewarded but the reward never happens.

But women are pissed too because all the shit that is supposed to make their lives happy is also unrealistic.

absurdlivingghost · 2017-03-24T16:56:27+00:00

I was a film snob from middle school onward, far more likely to indulge in Eraserhead or Solyaris than anything "Hollywood." If my bitterness arose from unmet wish fulfillment, it wasn't Hollywood doing it to me.

Carkudo · 2017-03-24T12:10:08+00:00

But Hollywood is not meant to be wish fulfillment. Modern Hollywood flicks are pretty much made of the just world hypothesis which teach viewers how they should behave in order to be rewarded in life. Wish fulfillment is when you have a Superman movie where the protagonist effortless balances his job and family matters whilst saving the world from evil alien overlords. A Superman movie where the protagonist gets overwhelmed by how much shit he has to deal with but then has a heartfelt talk with his mom and goes through a lot of suffering to get the girl in the end is not wish fulfillment - it's didactic. It teaches: "Value dem family values, be a good soldier, fight the good fight and life will reward you"

Wish fulfillment fiction does not attempt to be realistic. It does not strive to make "human" main characters because that's exactly what isn't wanted for wish fulfillment - you want a protagonist who the viewer can easily replace with him or herself. A Hollywood protagonist is usually not such a character. Look to lots of anime for those kinds of protagonists.

despisedlove2 · 2017-03-24T14:41:54+00:00

I think that many men are self deluded into thinking that when a woman's lips are moving at the time of exchanging the wedding vows, she is miraculously not lying for some reason.

ee4m · 2017-03-24T15:09:32+00:00

Im sure some women get angry because they cannot find 'mr right'. I see a lot of bitching because of a lack of men that tick all the boxes.

I'm pretty sure some women get angry they cannot have as many luxuery items and consumer goods as the media likes to tell them they need.

In fact, isnt around 80% of consumerist propaganda aimed at women and arent women the primary consumers?

So it seems media has quite a hold over women.

[deleted] · 2017-03-24T15:13:09+00:00

I don't think men expect life to be like the movies. Probably has more to do with the people in their personal lives lying to them

Anarchkitty · 2017-03-24T15:29:46+00:00

Decided to make this a top comment.

You've never heard the adage "Life imitates art, art imitates life"?

Many films and shows are set out as representing how actual people live actual lives. And, representing how men and women meet each other, interact with each other, get to know each other, date, fuck, marry, break up, divorce, have kids, raise kids, work, play, and die.

Remember the film "Ordinary People"? The ENTIRE POINT of the film is setting out how a normal UMC family deals with the loss of a child. And it's depicted in a very realistic, very human way. Same with a film like "Blue Valentine", the birth, life and death of a working class prole marriage.

It's not unreasonable for young impressionable kids to look to film depictions of people living lives (IN A REALISTIC WAY, not porn or shit like that) and conclude that's how it is or should be done. Particularly when they are young, and don't have the frame of references or experience to discern between truth and fiction, between what is realistic and what is not. And people around us tell us "yup, that is SO REAL." "Yup, that was REALISTIC". "Yup, that's how it's done. You wanna meet a chick? That's EXACTLY how you do it."

There have been numerous films which purport to depict how real people actually live real lives, including how men and women meet, date, fuck, fight, marry, divorce, break up, have families, work, play and die.

czerdec · 2017-03-24T16:58:35+00:00

What planet are you living on where terpers are a notable factor in the crowd of crazies who spend their lives whining about Hollywood?

What I see is 99.99999% of all the complaints against Hollywood come from feminazis and the religious right.

Terper and other manosphere guys barely register.

Real men know how to distinguish fact from fiction and feel just contempt for those who don't.

gasparddelanuit · 2017-03-24T19:12:56+00:00

Charlie Brooker did an entire show on this.

That's the full 30 minute episode but worth watching, Charlie Brooker does that shit well and makes it funny but real and depressing at the same time.

kragshot · 2017-03-24T20:08:36+00:00

As much as people claim that it is not true; the media influences our social perceptions in a very significant manner. Everything from the clothes we wear to the gadgets we buy in our homes are influenced by what we see in films, read in books, browse online, and watch on television, tells us what is supposed to be the new and hep thing to buy.

It also influences our social perceptions. The current trend in media is to show a simple and slovenly image of the American male. If our television shows were any indication of real life, all men would be idiots who couldn't make it through the day without some woman telling him what's right or wrong. Don't believe me? Ask Marge Simpson, Jill Taylor, or Carrie Heffernan...Homer, Tim, or Doug would be pretty pitiful men without their "better halves."

But I digress.

Here's the real point in reference to dating. Men wouldn't give a flying fuck about how dating and relationships are in the movies if women didn't say that they gave a damn about it. White women clowned when "Pretty Woman" came out in theaters, while Black men renamed the movie "Waiting To Exhale" "Waiting To Catch Hell" with the way that Black women acted up after seeing that movie.

Shit like that is why the other men I know get mad about the movies and TV. Either make some shit that's clearly fantastic and nobody will get twisted or just stop trying to make movies to tell people how they should act.

trpobserver · 2017-03-25T00:05:20+00:00

You have to appreciate that films don't always clearly express what is fantasy and what is reality. Things can happen in a film that the creators didn't even think about because they were focusing on something else. Characters might do a certain thing, or might have a conversation, and to the writer, director, etc. its to progress the plot to a certain point but a viewer might take in the ideas from those words and actions as representative of reality.

Its kind of along the same lines as this. Most good fiction has lots of elements of truth and reality in it, and if you just pass off everything and anything as "well its fictional so we can make up our own rules" then don't be surprised when some people get confused.

Subway_Bernie_Goetz · 2017-03-25T02:22:22+00:00

That's not how propaganda works. It's more insidious than that. Here is an excellent example of how it works.

The tl;dr is this: Everyone knows that Baywatch was an unrealistic show. They took the sexiest actresses and models and made them lifeguards in that fictional universe. They portrayed that level of beauty as normal. But people weren't fooled by it. They knew it was a just a show. But then impressionable viewers who are smart enough to see through that part of it, they are passively accepting other parts because they aren't aware of them. Like the fact that the show portrays it as normal for lifeguards (who don't make that much) to wear really expensive designer clothes that you never see them wear more than once, and drive Corvette's. TV can fuck with your expectations when you aren't aware of the messages it's sending you.

Same with romance. Women all know that looking as hot as Rachel McAdams and getting a guy as hot as Ryan Gosling is just some glossy Hollywood fantasy. But then they passively accept the message that there is such thing as "true love" and a "soul mate." Then they go through life wondering if they have the "real thing" because if it were "true love," surely they would feel it.

How many romantic movies do girls see before they even get into their first romantic relationship? By the time they get their first "boyfriend" in 7th grade, they have already internalized a certain view of romance from media. You seem to think that everyone grows out of it, but I've seen plenty of people who still view relationships through a nonsense fairy tale lens. I wish people were as realistic as you think they are, but I don't think they are.

[deleted] · 2017-03-25T22:07:24+00:00

Seems like women have a bigger problem with the media than men do. They insist on having strong female leads everywhere.

AutoModerator · 2017-03-24T11:04:20+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

breakfasttopiates · 2017-03-24T17:21:39+00:00

Only certain specific ideologies and wishes are explored

Title	Hollywood is meant to be about wish fulfillment. So why do some people, mostly men, get angry when they realize that real life is not like that?
Author	reepbot
Upvotes	13
Comments	193
Date	March 24, 2017 11:04 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6189uw/hollywood_is_meant_to_be_about_wish_fulfillment/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/hollywood-is-meant-to-be-about-wish-fulfillment-so.269303 https://theredarchive.com/post/269303

Comments