Redpillers, why do most of you hate liberalism?

Equilibriun · 2016-02-05T15:18:33+00:00

I don't care if you are gay. Just leave my guns and money alone.

When you are poor, you go left. When you own stuff, you want to keep it you go right

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-02-05T15:05:05+00:00

I have always been an individualist. I've always believed in individual rights over the collective and I thought that liberalism reflected those views. Then I woke up one morning to the new authoritarian left who censor and sacrifice people for their own political agenda and knew it was time to explore green pastures. That's how I found Ayn Rand and the alt right (I guess it's called) which I think sums up my views much better.

leftajar · 2016-02-05T17:19:30+00:00

Because, they're not actually Liberal.

Classical Liberalism, as espoused by our Founders -- y'know, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin -- was for small government. Free speech, free market, freedom of the press, freedom of religion. I can dig up examples of modern "liberals" shitting all over these freedoms in the name of "equality."

So let's be more accurate: Neo-Liberals.

To understand why modern Neo-Liberalism is evil, hang with me here for a sec:

Every law on the books is backed by the threat of force.

Think about that for a moment. Every law, if violated, is met with an escalating series of punishments that can culminate in death or imprisonment. Without that, it's not a law, it's just a suggestion. If you tell someone to do something, and they respond with "or what," you need to have a compelling reason. Violence is the golden standard of compliance.

The definition of "government" is the entity legally authorized to initiate force within a given area.

So, when Suzy Q soccer mom calls for the government to "save the whales," what she's really saying is, "The whales are so important, that the government needs to start pointing guns at people in order to change their whale-killing behaviors."

This understanding of violence is what makes a conservative.

Because, if the government is going to make a law backed by violence, they better have a goddamned good reason for it.

Neo-Liberals have this annoying, terrible, destructive habit of calling for the government to FIX everything. Again, what they're really doing is saying, "Point guns at people in order to make them do things."

And Conservatives, who have an inherent understanding of violence, are really, really, really fucking irked by this. When you understand violence, you start to see everything as just expanding government power, or limiting it.

Neo-liberals are assholes, because they're constantly calling for their scary friend (government) to threaten people, AND they're pussies, because they're unwilling to do it themselves. Neo-liberalism is an infantile, parasitic, evil movement, and needs to STFU and go away.

GaiusScaevolus · 2016-02-05T15:34:41+00:00

The American left has been co-opted by feminists and SJWs near completely.

Let me give you an example: Political radio ads are meant to be 30 second spots where candidates talk in broad strokes about what they will do for you, usually 3-5 points. The end goal should be "Those things would help me, I should vote for this person." See if you can spot the change over the past couple decades...

Clinton '92:

Improve education.
Create jobs.
Cut govt waste.

Clinton '16:

$12-15/hr minimum wage
Equal pay for women
Pathway to citizenship for illegals
Climate change

Bill's platform sounds beneficial to myself and most Americans. I can see clearly how I might benefit, it's just a matter of if I agree with the specifics of each plan. Hillary is useless to me. As a male, white, natural born citizen with job skills, She offers me nothing.

mrcs84usn · 2016-02-05T14:57:20+00:00

My biggest issue with the left is social programs. I don't like the idea that I have to help subsidize other people's problems/life choices. I'm a big fan of the Night-watchman state because the more the government stays out of my life, the better. Half the time, it seems like they do a terrible job of managing the GOP anyway. I would rather succeed/fail based on my own merit.

I think that is one thing about disliking the left. Men are raised generally to be self-sufficient, and to be providers. Getting handouts from other people shows that you aren't self-sufficient, and a man wants to have the choice of who he provides for as opposed to the obligation.

TheSandbergPrinciple · 2016-02-05T18:20:53+00:00

Speaking as a "Bernie Bro" who happens to be a Terper, i really only dislike feminism. And you can see why as Hillary Clinton is trying to turn the debate between herself and Bernie as much as she can about sexism rather than issues.

Feminists are going to destroy progressiveism.

[deleted] · 2016-02-05T17:22:20+00:00

However, it's less clear why they lean right wing in general. My question is, what is it about the modern left (or historical left) that puts you off?

From a political standpoint, I describe myself as a fiscal conservative, but a libertarian on individual rights. I desire a smaller government that can balance a budget and provide our basic infrastructure and safety, and otherwise stays the hell out of my private life.

The left seems hell bent on controlling every aspect of my life they can, from healthcare to gun ownership, and in my opinion that is not nor ever was the intent of our U.S. Constitution. The government is supposed to work for us, "we the people", but it seems to me they mostly work for their own benefit at the cost of our individual interests.

I'd be much more in support of the liberal agenda if they FIRST concentrated on fixing the economy. I don't think social issues are unimportant, but not nearly as important as making sure we can all make a decent wage, and live our lives as unrestricted as possible while providing a common framework for all of us to live in.

TheSonofLiberty · 2016-02-05T18:54:21+00:00

Feminism, progressivism, pc culture, liberalism, all of these things can actually be classified as the same thing; cultural Marxism.

Marxism is about tearing down the strong, so the weak don't feel bad. Its about reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator so in the long run, everyone suffers.

We are comfortable with freedom. We want freedom. With freedom comes responsibility, with freedom comes risk. In a free society, you are free to succeed or fail.

Cultural Marxists are people who will gladly trade freedom for security. They will give up any chance of succeeding, as long as it removes any risk of failing. These are people who want to live the lives of domesticated animals.

To continue with that metaphor we are the animals that want to live free in the wild.

What pisses us off is that they can't leave us well enough alone. The left is utopian they want the whole world in their club, and if you don't agree with them too bad they'll just force you.

Xemnas81 · 2016-02-05T14:59:48+00:00

The left glorifies being a weak victim and demanding success to come to you via complaining. This is diametrically opposed to the hyperagency TRP promotes. A leftist response to being a beta would be similar to male fat acceptance/anti body shaming whatever, not busting your ass to try to look like an underwear model.

lbspredh · 2016-02-05T17:57:50+00:00

It's not liberalism so much as socialism, modern feminism doesn't just want equal rights, they want protection from competition as well

nomdplume · 2016-02-05T18:46:16+00:00

My question is, what is it about the modern left (or historical left) that puts you off?

I can lean left or right, depending on the issue. But I consider myself a "liberal" in the classic sense of the term.

My problem with modern "leftism" is that it has become ideological and illiberal.

That's also my problem with the right-wing, incidentally.

Dogma and ideology is despicable to me, no matter from what direction it comes. Everything needs to be questioned, and pragmatism is my only concern.

LancerKagato · 2016-02-05T16:12:21+00:00

Because the great depression would have not lasted as long if social programs didn't exist. Look up the time when the U.S. hit great depression lows during the Coolidge admin, he didn't do shit markets corrected themselves. Because you cannot keep the first amendment without the second. Because I don't believe my stuff should be redistributed BY FORCE to people who have less. Because security should never be attained by the price of individual freedom. Because if I fuck up and decide to stick a heroine needle in my arm for a few weeks, that MY fucking problem and I shouldn't receive Tx for it if I cant pay. (life fucking sucks, even more when you make stupid decisions) Because even though it hurts, I take responsibility for what I do in life and don't play the victim. Because I am an individual.

StingrayVC · 2016-02-05T15:03:48+00:00

I'm right wing because I believe in reality, not what I think the world should be regardless of that reality.

OlBastard · 2016-02-05T18:19:14+00:00

It's funny, when I was a liberal, I was also a feminist. I recall dating a rather conservative gal, and couldn't for the life of me figure her out.

As I read more into the manosphere, I also discovered the NRx movement and alt-right. That was also when I gained about 30 lbs of muscle.

There an interesting paper on muscle-mass(and likely testosterone) on the redistribution of wealth.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1798773&buffer_share=e3039

Tl:Dr: Lower class men are more for the redistribution of wealth if they have big muscles, and higher class men are more against the redistribution of wealth if they have big muscles.

I'm going to have a guess and say that it has almost everything to do with T-levels.

The more robust the man is, the more in favor he will be of his own self-interest.

Redistribution of resources benefits the poor and the weak.

Perhaps that's why TRP leans right. Because we're swole as fuck and don't want our money going to a bunch of losers - especially when it won't benefit us directly.

Aside from that, on the surface, it's clear as day why TRP would lean right. TRP is all about self-improvement, self-actualization, owning your own problems and taking life by the balls.

Why should the weak, poor, and unfortunate get the spoils from those who have worked their asses off?

"Oh, but every human deserves some dignity and standard of living, boohooooooo". Shut the fuck up, no one deserves shit, you pathetic fucking waste of oxygen.

M7782 · 2016-02-05T18:57:19+00:00

I'm not a hardcore RP but I do actually agree with most of it. I dislike the the "nanny state" idealogy that the left seems to love (I'm an independent with no emotional ties to any party).

These are my views.

Everyone should responsible for themselves, gun rights shouldn't be restricted any further, feminism hurts normal women, taxing the living crap out of hard workers to provide for welfare is beyond stupid, and the only protected class that should exist are children. I have no issue with lgbt people, just be respectful of others and don't feel that the world owes you a favor. Every one should be equal, white, brown, black, yellow, and green, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation or religion.

cxj · 2016-02-08T01:41:27+00:00

I have a great respect for the old left: hardass working men risking their lives for a bigger piece of the pie to provide for their families. The modern left is nothing like this. It is sheltered, spoiled babies crying about their feelings and demanding restrictions on the behavior of others to protect them from being made uncomfortable, and degenerate do nothings demanding free handouts. Human pollution.

BiggerDthanYou · 2016-02-05T15:28:43+00:00

Left wing says (basically) "everyone can love each other and just get along, OMG GUISE THIS IS AWESOME"

Right wing says "People are fucked, also, there's no reason why I have to like you"

(Unless you are talking about the extremes of either side, which are, basically, the same thing; Both militant, violent, and unable to be negotiated with)

[deleted] · 2016-02-05T18:56:13+00:00

Because it is based on make-believe lies.

Uulmshar · 2016-02-05T19:06:00+00:00

I love liberalism

Classical liberalism.

[deleted] · 2016-02-05T20:56:31+00:00

Conservative politics more closely align with Traditional relationships. The thing that most RP's don't understand is that the right wing still does not favor men. Both left and right wing politics serve Gynocentrism.

Liberals sexually liberate women to do whatever they please, while the right wing takes them back after they've had their fill. Neither side truly gives a shit about men.

Archwinger · 2016-02-05T21:08:42+00:00

This has very little to do with The Red Pill, other than people who are conservative in some areas, like sexuality, also tend to be conservative in other areas, like finance.

I was a raving liberal in college and my younger years. Then I grew up, got a job, started making money and supporting myself. Suddenly everything the right wing was saying made a lot more sense, while everything the left wing was saying seemed like the ravings of a bunch of lazy, drugged-up nitwits.

Even if I'd never found The Red Pill and were desperately trying to make some kind of egalitarian relationship work with my wife, I would be politically conservative. Liberalism is all about helping people that aren't me and using resources they didn't earn to do so. Normal people who support themselves on their income don't need liberalism. It's primarily an ideology favored by those who are less well off (thus more reliant on the system) and those who are so well off that they don't or barely have to work (so they forget the value of money and have time for nonsense ideologies).

[deleted] · 2016-02-05T21:18:08+00:00

"Liberalism" doesn't mean what people think it means. When the Framers used the word "liberalism" they meant the idea conveyed today by the word "libertarianism."

Every individual has the right to life, liberty, and property under classical liberalism.

"A Republic; if you can keep it," is another Franklin-minted example of classical Liberalism.

Now, do I hate the modern definition of liberalism? No. I only hate harmful politics. Short-sighted, populist politics, based on mob mentality. Short-sided decisions lead to thr NSA, to the US PATRIOT act. To the TSA. To witch-hunts.

The only harmful politics are fascist politics, the kind that deny an individual from having the rights to life, liberty, and property.

nicethingyoucanthave · 2016-02-05T22:35:16+00:00

A church daycare holds an easter egg hunt. The little kids run around the playground, finding the colored eggs, and bringing them back to a large basket next to the teachers. At the end, the teachers congratulate the kids, and distribute eggs to each of them. These children grow up to be liberal.

Across town at Trump Daycare, they hold an easter egg hunt too. The teachers' job is to make sure that everyone starts at the same time. They blow a whistle, all the kids go running out into the yard screaming. They're all carrying a little basket in which they collect easter eggs. At the end, the teachers congratulate them, and give special recognition to the one who found the most eggs.

Liberals define "fair" as "everyone has the same outcome." When two people do not experience the same outcome, that's evidence that the process wasn't fair, and something needs to be fixed.

Conservatives define "fair" as "everyone had the same chance" (in the analogy, they all started at the same time). It's expected that there will be different outcomes, because people have different talents and each person decided how hard he was willing to work. Conservatives are perfectly happy to fix things that aren't fair, but you need more evidence than simply pointing to the different outcomes.

what is it about the modern left (or historical left) that puts you off?

Me personally? Nothing. But conservatives are bugged by the fact that liberals ignore effort and talent in their quest to equalize outcomes. Conservatives (rightly) note that there's no incentive to work hard if the teacher is just going to distribute easter eggs anyway. Liberals (rightly) note that "survival of the fittest" is kind of a drag - that maybe we as humans should care more for our fellow man than to say, "lol sucks to be you, you should have worked harder"

czerdec · 2016-02-05T23:05:51+00:00

Speaking as a left-libertarian antifeminist maybe both pills can benefit from being aware of how it is from this perspective.

In economic terms, the great disadvantage of today's capitalist individualism is that it's just crazy inefficient.

So in the USA there's tens of thousands of hedge fund investment managers who have a few trillion dollars for themselves. They own vast amounts of real estate, maybe hundreds of thousands of bedrooms that nobody will ever sleep in. The ultra-rich own crazy amounts of property that is never used, like the British aristocracy of Downton Abbey. I think we know what happened to the British aristocracy.

So we have an economic system that throws immense amounts of resources into the hands of a tiny group of people. And what do they do with these resources? Buy huge empty houses, and pay huge property taxes on them afterwards.

When you are poor, you go left.

How does that explain rich neighborhoods with zero poor people that still contain significant numbers of Sanders voters?

relationshipdownvote · 2016-02-05T23:35:02+00:00

My question is, what is it about the modern left (or historical left) that puts you off?

I like the historical left. FDR is my favorite president. What I dislike is the current issues the left focuses on. I don't think doubling the minimum wage is a good idea, it's too much, $10 is fine. I also think it's ridiculous that unskilled illegal immigrants are getting into the US easier than the skilled (and proportionally less criminal) immigrants that have to go through a shitload of hoops the fair way, that's why I'm leaning Trump. That doesn't even get into the gender/race/transwhatever bullshit.

FrankTheO2Tank · 2016-02-06T00:55:29+00:00

Is there an economic reason why you find liberalism to be damaging?

Yes, I'm tired of supporting a ton of losers, natural selection has been avoided for far too long...

[deleted] · 2016-02-06T03:00:04+00:00

Support for feminism is much more ingrained in left-wing politics than it is in right-wing politics. It's harder for someone who already leans left to swallow the pill.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think your political position matters for TRP. Just like it's amoral it's also apolitical. It just takes more to convince liberals.

yGTWgtNrco · 2016-02-06T04:46:04+00:00

People value different issues more than others and this dictates their votes. /u/Equilibriun appears to value his guns, ergo he'll vote to protect his right to have them, no matter what else the right wing believes. I value education and a moratorium on capital punishment over everything, ergo, I vote left. I know, economically, maybe I should be voting right, but taxes are just not that important to me.

MamaTR · 2016-02-06T04:48:54+00:00

Thats about privileged people becomign billionaires, not poor people becoming middle class

obstinatebeagle · 2016-02-06T09:48:47+00:00

Because the left are the thought police.

Edit: also because the left are way more inequitable than the right ever were. From a personal freedom and autonomy point of view that is.

lostapwbm · 2016-02-06T21:38:57+00:00

Objection: The left-right political spectrum is antiquated nonsense transposed well-past its useful life by the ideological descendants of the bloodthirsty Montagnards that infest contemporary politics as Socialists/Progressives/Self-Described Liberals.

This undercuts the rest of your questioning, but I'll take a stab at answering it.

My question is, what is it about the modern left (or historical left) that puts you off?

Since you ask a general question, I'll give a general answer. Most of what categorizes itself as the "Left" in America is more interested in lording over others than in ruling themselves to the best of their ability. Most of what categorizes itself as the "Left" in America is more interesting in "appearing" good than in "being" good. Most of what categorizes itself as the "Left" in America has delusions of utopianism, and the boundless chronological snobbery and arrogance to believe that they are the generation that will "perfect" humanity if they just pass the "right" laws or put the "right" people in power. Most of what categorizes itself as the "Left" in America know everything under Heaven except for the fine art of leaving well enough alone.

your embrace of ruthless capitalist Social Darwinism...

Sir, WTF does this inane word salad even mean? More importantly, what, if any, evidence do you have that I subscribe to said the aforementioned inane word salad?

libertarian meritocracy?

Same objection as before.

daveofmars · 2016-02-06T21:48:10+00:00

I find liberalism to be damaging because it's an ideology that encourages weakness in the guise of "acceptance" and "equality", thereby turning its adherents into limp-wristed wieners whose power only comes from the volume of their collective whining.

I have much more respect for worker's revolutions and violent anarchists than I do for the "don't trigger me" college activists.

I was a leftist once, and was expelled from the clique because I didn't agree with feminism. My egalitarianism extended to all people equally, including men. Obviously, they didn't agree. That impulse for equality took me to libertarianism, which eventually wore out altogether.

Even though I consider myself a right-winger, I do feel strongly about worker's rights and unions, and keeping a leash on global corporations. Today's left doesn't give two shits about it. They say they care, but it's only lip-service. So screw 'em.

mcmanusaur · 2016-02-05T16:59:33+00:00

Liberalism, in the context of being what conservatives stand against, is an utterly meaningless term.

Apexk9 · 2016-02-05T17:49:01+00:00

I think all political parties are retarded and having an affiliation for one makes you retarded in my book as well.

FirionDarklight · 2016-02-05T16:11:34+00:00

Feminism isn't liberalism.

Title	Redpillers, why do most of you hate liberalism?
Author	Xemnas81
Upvotes	15
Comments	219
Date	February 5, 2016 2:47 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/44b40q/redpillers_why_do_most_of_you_hate_liberalism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/redpillers-why-do-most-of-you-hate-liberalism.276448 https://theredarchive.com/post/276448

Comments