CMV: women should pay for the date or go Dutch

crookedsummer2019 · 2020-09-25T20:49:58+00:00

I have often offered to pay my half, whether or not I wanted a second date.

Don’t assume because she’s paying half that she wants to fuck you. Sometimes it’s to compensate for the time spent on a date that you realize will be a one time thing halfway through and you want to lesson the disappointment by at least paying your half especially if you know he likes you.

And sometimes it actually is to show that you are not out for a free platonic date and you want him to see that you are not using him so you want him to ask you out again. Of course I always believed that if she likes him then it’s her turn to ask him out for a second date but I know some women won’t be that forward.

So don’t go just by who pays what. If she is sexually attracted to you, you will know. For most women, when we like a guy we don’t make it difficult for him.

decoy88 · 2020-09-25T22:47:40+00:00

If I'm asking someone for their time, I'm not going to make them pay for the privilege of giving me their time; that's just plain rude.

goatismycopilot · 2020-09-25T20:38:42+00:00

Woman asks man out. Lol.

vargstrike · 2020-09-25T20:44:57+00:00

People absolutely should not do anything if they don't If man does not want to pay for woman he doesn't have to. Obviously woman also can decide to friendzon this man. Everyone is happy.

the_purring_jew · 2020-09-26T02:12:46+00:00

Make me

Fuego213 · 2020-09-25T21:31:08+00:00

Say you meet a woman you’re interested in and she agrees to go out with you. You’ve been interested in her for awhile, and you’re hoping this date will lead to whatever it is you’re looking for. Do you genuinely believe it’s going to be a good idea to ask her to pay half of the bill on the first date? No. She’s going to think you’re a fucking loser.

You boys are missing out on all the fun and experiences you’re looking for worrying to much about the almighty dollar and how others might perceive you for spending money on a woman.

Personally, because of covid, first dates the past months have consisted of meeting at each other’s apartment (I live in a city). How would I look if I invited a woman over and made her pay her half of the food delivery? Even when life is normal where I prefer first dates at restaurants and bars there’s no issue in paying. It’s simply just the nice thing to do. I don’t think we should worry so much about being “used for a free meal” or whatever. If it happens, you cut your losses, recoup said loss in next weeks paycheck, and go on to the next woman. Stop making dating more tedious and hard than it has to be for yourselves.

Edit: To any red piller getting ready to type their betta zinger or whatever. It’ll take a whole lot more than spending $35-55 at a bar to feel used.

catchaleaf · 2020-09-25T23:47:15+00:00

Are people here broke? Why is this always debated. Do you guys even date in real life and not just theorize everything. Using men for meal tickets? Seriously, ditch this way of thinking. If I make six figures as is I can def afford the meal I am eating if it comes down to it. However I have never been on a date where the guy does not pay for the meal, drinks or outing. If I am with a friend, sure let’s go Dutch. Or if I’m hanging out with someone and celebrating something or whatever I have def paid the whole bill as a treat. But a date? dating can be expensive, if you cannot afford to date maybe take a pause, work on yourself and come back when you can. A woman has options, she has no incentive to date a guy who makes her “prove her romantic interest” when another guy will pay for her without hesitating. Every first date is about first impressions, if you don’t get a second date don’t be surprised.

Barely-moral · 2020-09-25T23:33:24+00:00

She is not equal to him. She is a woman and for that reason she is more valuable. The market said so.

There are exceptions, I am talking only about the general rule.

Since she is more valuable, the man will end up paying or his chances of succeeding will decrease.

uwunderkind · 2020-09-26T01:53:59+00:00

So women should demonstrate that they're not using men for free booze, but men are allowed to use women for free booze? That makes zero sense.

DaphneDK42 · 2020-09-26T08:41:25+00:00

Dutch women are 6"3 and wear clogs. Just saying.

trpSenator · 2020-09-25T21:31:32+00:00

Women have many options with whom to date. So if some men think paying for women's meals is unjust, those women can just say, "Okay, all the power to you" and date someone who does want to pay for their meals.

rubbooyuri · 2020-09-26T01:09:38+00:00

Until male and female libidos, risk of physical harm and offspring investment is equal, I’m afraid this will not be a persuasive argument. It certainly isn’t to me

A guy who pays, freely and ungrudgingly, is demonstrating that he understands that dating is a risk for women, and that his sex drive is his responsibility

Louis CK, a predator himself, understood this very well. https://youtu.be/yRzs7v0do_Q

Having said that, formal/expensive dinner dates are ridiculous and should not be the norm, unless we are talking straight up arranged marriages

pandora_box- · 2020-09-26T01:32:40+00:00

Im 26f. I pay for meals for my female friends when I ask them to go places — when it’s just a 1:1 catch up and not a big group thing. My friends do the same for me. I expect a man who asks me out to pay for my meal. I value confidence above any other trait & approaching someone (I refused to do online dating) takes guts— so coincidentally I had no interest in asking a man out. If I planned the date, then yea I’d expect to pay— but I also know that it was in my best interest to not plan a date until the man (being the gatekeeper of commitment) committed to me. If after asking me out he didn’t want to pay for my meal, I had no problem paying for myself or even his meal. I didn’t get offended at all but there was absolutely no second date with me because all attraction would be instantly drained & he’d be friendzoned or forgotten. If my friends are more generous with their time and effort than he is— I’d rather be single.

I’m happily married and my husband paid for all our dates until it was a committed relationship, then we went halves on it. He’s an amazing and generous man— who’s also a natural alpha. If I’d compromised on what I’d wanted, I wouldn’t have been single and available when I’d met him.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2020-09-25T20:37:03+00:00

Many men would happily be "used" for finances if it gives them access to a Higher Value Woman. Relationships are transactional. You have your view based on your values, just dont date women who demand you pay. Simple. Mutually filtering each other out.

SeemedGood · 2020-09-25T22:06:54+00:00

Any man who per virtue of my womanhood thinks I'm after his money only, is a man I won't ever date. I value generosity as a virtue in others and myself, and act accordingly, but paying for someone because of wanting to prove that I'm not a gold digger is... absurdly dysfunctional.

Believe it or not: I still don't have a problem with finding men who have a healthy view of women to date. I'll cover things when I know I'm in a better current financial situation– that's what good people do per default.

pandolfio · 2020-09-26T02:13:07+00:00

I will absolutely pay for my half of a date that I did not enjoy, in order to lessen the blow of No Second Date and No Kiss. That way he has nothing to hold over me.

Reisiluu · 2020-09-26T08:26:23+00:00

Using PPD man logic:

You'd pay for a date with a hot Stacy so if you don't pay for a date with me you're settling and not worth my time. Chances are that you already paid for countless dates but now you're trying to treat me worse and claim you've "matured".

jax006 · 2020-09-25T20:32:41+00:00

Holy fuckin shit

I've always felt like this is pretty basic

If you aren't completely meh about a woman and truly want to fuck her and for whatever dumbass reason you're "taking her on a date" (lol in 2020)

and you aren't a complete poorfag (should address that first if so)

You hand the waitstaff your CC without even looking at the check when they bring it.

You do this like 1 or 2 times early on, should be able to fuck shortly after, and then you lead and see what she does. Go out for ice cream. Does she still expect you to pay? Or did she return the favor?

If she still expects you to pay, you keep inviting her over to fuck and watch movies for as long as she is ok with that, and it's up to you how much money you want to spend on a bitch.

Personally I'm fine trading a 9.99 large 3 topping dominoes pizza and a movie that I torrented for some puss.

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midwesternMD · 2020-09-26T00:28:36+00:00

Depends on who chooses the venue. You choose, you treat.

I ask women out without really knowing how much they can afford. And I choose restaurants that are mid-range, about 15-30 for an entree. I specifically choose restaurants that I want to try because if there’s no attraction, then at least I’ll have tried a new restaurant. That said, I do expect that she at least reach for the check. If I don’t see that, she might as well tell me she’s not interested, because I lose interest if she doesn’t have the social graces to at least make the effort.

vargstrike · 2020-09-25T20:25:17+00:00

The reality is that the decision point lies with the man, in that if he doesn't want to pay for her meal, he simply, you know, shouldn't pay.

throwaway91078 · 2020-09-26T01:16:14+00:00

I have been in situations where I paid for the date expenses because I knew she was a student or unemployed and I was happy to do it. I have been a student too and I rememeber what is like. But if I know she works and has a regular income it will always be Dutch because I date adults.

Also I'm curious to understand what's the rationale behind the "man should be paying the whole thing" even if she works.

Like what happens when they enter a relationship?

My idea is that any couple would set up a joint bank account, set their lifestyle according to their incomes and having each set a direct debit to the joint account for common family and everyday expenses.

What is your idea then? Are you expecting the man to pay for all family expenses while she keeps accumulating her money into her account or spend it only on herself? Because if you do you are insane. Honestly the only dates you should be looking to set are the ones to book the mental hospital visits ;-)

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LeJacquelope · 2020-09-26T04:08:07+00:00

Yeah, I've been yelling about men going Dutch for eons on here. I've also said that in exchange no man ever talks shit about how career women make bad mothers. And they should also fight to make it so motherhood doesn't destroy a woman's financial prospects down the line.

Forget women offering to pay. Why do them like they've done us? Isn't the point to show women equality rather than playing petty gender revenge games? Gender revenge thinking ruined the women of today, we shouldn't let it latch onto and ruin us. Everyone pays their own way.

That's how I, a MRA and a Democrat, see things.

LooseIndication · 2020-09-26T09:17:02+00:00

The very concept of dating is wrong

TessaBrooding · 2020-09-26T19:11:14+00:00

“She is equal to him.” And yet we assume she’s using the man for a free meal ticket? Can’t women afford to buy food?

I agree with going Dutch or switching between who pays. If one party suggests an expensive place, they should pay or at least split if it was previously agreed on.

Being exceptionally handsome changes nothing.

ThatGirl50 · 2020-09-28T15:24:17+00:00

Or we can just not go out with you :)

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-09-26T02:31:10+00:00

This argument will never be equal. Women reserve the right to refuse men who pay for them while also reserving the right to not pay for men or themselves, and any man who doesn't pay must be a broke loser who they wouldn't want to date anyway.

If you treat these types of women like high-class prostitutes who you have to wine and dine and might not see again, you're likely to do better with them. The rest, you can treat normally and have a good time with until things go the route of a relationship.

FloraFit · 2020-09-27T11:06:02+00:00

You’re deluded if you think average women are so hard up for a Panera bread bowl that they would entertain a man for an hour in exchange.

JohnDoe9564 · 2020-09-25T21:55:18+00:00

Never happening. Women will always find a way to "forget" their wallets at home.

joesmithasdf · 2020-09-25T22:20:02+00:00

I see what you did there Jack hehe. Well played. To keep in the spirit of cmv, that’s not going to happen ever. Too many simps and clever women in the world.

WilliamWyattD · 2020-09-26T01:00:27+00:00

I believe you are conflating two separate issues. The first is what should be the case in a more ideal society that values male and female happiness equally, but that does not necessarily treat them identically given their different natures. The second is what should any given individual do in today's society, given it is how it is.

Addressing the first question is difficult because, ideally, if the genders are not treated identically, there would be balancing burdens and privileges for both. So perhaps men should always pay, but then ideally this burden is balanced out by other things.

In today's society, where we have a mix of traditional burdens and privileges with a more modern ideal that equality and equity can only be achieved by treating the sexes more identically, and with no real attempt to make sure that in the end things balance out, imposing the cost on a man to pay could in fact be an unfair burden all things considered.

The first type of cultural-level question is indeed interesting, but does not seem the one intended by the OP's post. So I will focus on what any individual man should do in today's world.

I believe a man should always offer to pay and be assumed to be paying until a sufficiently deep personal connection is made so that the idiosyncratic context of the couple can then be taken into consideration (personalities, individual financial situation, etc.). The man paying initially just seems to work best, all things considered. Essentially, despite feminism, most women still want to be courted. They want the man to prove his investment and enthusiasm. They want to feel like he feels she is worth an expenditure. Indeed, most TRP argue that the problem with feminism in its current form is that it fails to properly account for male and female nature alike.

Now, a good woman for her part, should understand as well as the man what is being accomplished by having him pay: it is what it symbolizes and not the actual free consumption and acquisition of goods on behalf of the woman. Women are smart and should be able to see context. If what they are looking for is a good man with capability, and not necessarily just wealth itself, then a woman should be as pleased by a cheaper date from a less wealthy man as an expensive dinner from a trust fund kid. Men should only organize and pay for dates that they can afford, and if this means you do not impress and get the woman who really wants a man with a certain amount of wealth, well then this just helped you filter her out.

One might argue that even more economical dates add up if you go out on 10+ a month. But then again, maybe they SHOULD. Maybe if you have to go out on 10+ first/second/third dates a month you are doing something wrong and the dating process should impose a cost to prevent such behavior.

Title	CMV: women should pay for the date or go Dutch
Author	vargstrike
Upvotes	3
Comments	330
Date	September 25, 2020 8:22 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/izr7ta/cmv_women_should_pay_for_the_date_or_go_dutch/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-women-should-pay-for-the-date-or-go-dutch.276608 https://theredarchive.com/post/276608

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