Discussion: Would you be with someone who's in their "struggle" years?

Texastentialism · 2019-12-18T19:07:26+00:00

My college boyfriend (who was my first boyfriend) was going through a "hard time" when we first started dating. He had lost his job, didn't have a car, was estranged from his family, his dad (who he had only recently started speaking to after being no-contact for years) had been diagnosed with cancer, etc.

When we first got together I thought "Damn, this poor guy is really going through it" but the longer we stayed together the more I realized his "hard time" was just his life and he brought most of it on himself (aside from the dad having cancer bit, obviously). As soon as one situation was resolved, he'd kick up dust in another area of his life. His entire life was just chaos of his own creation and it eventually became evident to me that his "hard time" was never going to end because he was just the kind of person who continually created problems for himself.

If I were to find myself single again, I wouldn't get involved with someone who's "going through a hard time." Even if it's not their fault, I just don't want to entangle myself in someone else's life drama. If we've been together for a long time and I feel we have a future together and something unexpected happens, that's another story. However the "needy, pathetic piece of crap" part doesn't bode well. I'm sympathetic to falling on hard times and I'll do whatever I can to help pull you out of it, but I have very little patience for people who expect me to help them but won't help themselves.

sublimemongrel · 2019-12-18T19:24:06+00:00

It depends, is he trying to get his life back in order or does he refuse to address or even recognize there’s a problem? Are you married? Do you have kids? More context is needed

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2019-12-18T19:10:19+00:00

Someone’s looking to bail and wants to feel good about it.

AyemHerself · 2019-12-18T19:05:59+00:00

but they lose their job, get in car accident, and they fall into a dark place.

This I could handle if there was already a foundation of love and trust in the relationship.

They start to become needy, clingy, and overall a pathetic piece of crap.

This... not so much.

OddButton6 · 2019-12-18T19:30:07+00:00

I think this is one of those things where people don't know until they're in that situation.

SmurfESmurferson · 2019-12-18T20:31:06+00:00

Me, I am in the midst of my struggle

Within the past year:

Divorce
Post-separation social fallout (my father threatened to disinherit me, and some friends felt compelled to choose sides, despite us being clear that we did not want that/wanted to be friendly moving forward ourselves)
5th anniversary of my mother’s death
Breast cancer scare
Botched, traumatic medical procedure
New challenges at work that led to a lot of stress

I’ve coped, quite frankly, by drinking more than I should and training for a half marathon (which is actually a good thing, but it does take a ton of time and puts a lot of stress on a relationship)

The Guy made some missteps, to be sure, but he’s overall been a consistent, reassuring presence in my life. I won’t forget that, and I’ll continue to be grateful

But thank you for this post - it reminded me that I need to communicate that to him, not just assume that he knows

mjhrobson · 2019-12-18T19:39:23+00:00

You need to communicate.

Losing a job sucks, as does being in an accident. A person after these events is going to be a little insecure. That in the short term is understandable...

But you haven't given any time frame here? In the short term depression and whatnot are pretty normal reactions... however, at some point it becomes a pathology.

It happened to me. After university I was unemployed, in a bad space, felt like my life was going nowhere. My gf was understanding, but she also basically kicked me out of bed (every morning) and made it clear that she was going to tolerate me moping around.

Looking for a job is demoralising especially when no one is hiring... but my gf was clear that she is understanding, but I still have to be actively trying to improve my situation.

You need to do the same. Being understanding is good sure... but tell him straight up, you need to see him trying to improve his situation. It is not fair on you to deal with things when he is making no effort.

Again I don't know the timeframes in your situation, or his, but remember depression is a feedback loop reducing motivation. Snap him out of that shit, don't be mean (unnecessarily), but if his behaviour is negative say so. Tell him you're not blaming him, but you're also not going to put up with him making no effort... because making no effort to improve that is on him.

Edit: Read a post or two, even if he was abused (in whatever way) that still doesn't change that he cannot mope around and do nothing. That will only make his depression worse. Don't let him mope. Also don't fight. Tell him he must listen until you finish. When you have finished say there is nothing to discuss either he makes an effort or not, and you are not putting up with him making no effort.

XtoDoubt · 2019-12-18T19:01:40+00:00

I did. I dug my ex out. Literally a non issue for me.

2019-12-18T19:08:03+00:00

If I was not married to him then no.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-12-18T19:42:34+00:00

Not if i wasnt engaged or married to him. why are you going through any of this for just some "boyfriend"

ontherailstoday · 2019-12-18T20:03:32+00:00

Depends on whether they are open to continuing to stay oriented towards having a decent life or not. Depressed? Better be seeking treatment and trying to address lifestyle. Unemployed? Better still be trying to do some sort of work even if it is just keeping your home clean. Disabled? Better be exploring what you can do. In pain? Better get good at getting full value from what you can still do despite the pain. Feeling hopeless? At least try to accept how freeing that is to take risks and do things outside your comfort zone, if you don;t think you'll be a success at anything why not try sales even though you've never thought you could, why not try manual work, why not try etc etc if your life is meaningless then surely that at least frees you in some ways.

I can handle poverty, trouble, work, sad times... I can even handle such things as my lot in life forever... but I can not handle someone who is conscious deliberately accepting that they will be a dead weight on me and only a dead weight on me, the exact same dead weight (or even getting heavier dead weight) year after year, with no chance of improving or giving back more or slowing the decline, forever. They have to be doing something, trying something. Even if they are completely paralysed and speaking through a computer, i would expect that ultimately they'd try to do something like learn to be more insightful, more emotionally supportive of me, maybe eventually try writng a book, etc.

I think if I was young again, a similar age to most people here, I might give someone six months to show some sort of sign of them turning to face the problems and work on the problems. And then if no joy, I'd get pointed about it. And finally I would set simple tasks that should be within their power to re-orientate them. And if no joy with that, then bye bye.

Million-Suns · 2019-12-18T20:39:17+00:00

They start to become needy, clingy, and overall a pathetic piece of crap. Would you stay with them?

Honestly, no. It's one thing to be a in a dark place,that I can bear, it's another to lash it all on your partner. Why people think it's okay to treat your SO worse than any stranger ?

Orange_Paisley · 2019-12-18T21:23:12+00:00

Mr. Paisley was disabled and unable to work for almost a year. I stayed. By contrast, my e-husband developed bipolar disorder and a drug addiction and I got the hell out of there within 3 months of the revelation.

boomcheese44 · 2019-12-18T19:25:35+00:00

I'm sure it depends on the quality of the connection. For some random boyfriend that I've known for like a few months? I'd offer as much support as I can and probably back off if it became too much for me.

For my soulmate/husband that I've already had ups and downs with for years, of course!

Men need to admit that they too wouldnt do it for some random girl they havent been dating for long.

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M4sterDis4ster · 2019-12-18T19:42:45+00:00

Yes I could. I am great motivational speaker with decent life experience about those things, so I am pretty sure that person wouldnt be too long in that loop.

diffdedbed · 2019-12-18T22:22:41+00:00

I think it 100% depends on them trying to fix the problem or not.

Mental illness is a bitch, but shit or get off the pot.

Helping them get to a better place is understandable. Just supporting them while they do nothing is enabling.

yvaN_ehT_nioJ · 2019-12-18T22:27:53+00:00

Huh, so this is different from what the OP title made me think it'd be about. I was thinking you mean that time before they really get on their feet - they're still in training or school, getting established in a career, transitioning into full adulthood. Anyways,

I think I would give it time to see if they're making actionable goals to get themselves out of their situation and acting on them; if they're running away from whatever the problems are; if they're just trying to have a pity party; things of that nature. Life throws curveballs and I think you do have to take time to really see if their trouble was self-imposed or not and to see how they handle it.

At a certain point though, you just have to cut ties and move on. Their trouble will start sapping you and unless they actually want to roll up their sleeves and take action instead of sitting around like a whimpering child your quality of life will start to be affected. There's only so much a partner can do after all. The rest has to come from within and from professionals like psychologists or whoever else would be best positioned to help.

I say this being a guy that was

they fall into a dark place. They start to become needy, clingy, and overall a pathetic piece of crap.

That was in my first relationship (we were in college and had been together for four years by the end). The girl, bless her heart, she put up with my bullshit for a lot longer than she should have, honestly. She ended up breaking things off because being with a needy, clingy person is no way to go through things, especially when they're not actually doing anything about it.

Her ending the relationship kickstarted the process I went through to get out of those "struggle years." Sometimes you need a strong hit to the head to actually get you to start turning things around.

CatchPhraze · 2019-12-19T02:58:17+00:00

I did/do. Anyone whose with a college student pretty much is. I worked my way through school and so I paid for all the bills when we lived together during breaks.

asperges_me_domine · 2019-12-19T04:21:55+00:00

It depends. He's helped me through some minor struggle times, I've helped him through minor struggle times, and a few times, we struggled together, but the effort to overcome was always there. We've never had to weather anything earth-shattering though. So hypothetically speaking, if counseling is a viable option, I'm willing to make it happen. But if time has elapsed and he refuses to put the effort in, or if drugs or abuse entered the equation, then... well, I just hope that's not on the horizon.

Gravel_Roads · 2019-12-19T08:07:56+00:00

When I was in my 20's, everyone was struggling. That's just the name of the game in that first decade outside of the home; everyone is figuring it out. But now that I'm in my 30's, no, because people in their 30's should have their shit together. I don't want to have to carry my own burdens as well as someone else's. You gotta be putting in your share of the effort.

I have a 10-year improvement rule: If you're still doing the same shit when your 27 as when you were 17, you are stunted. If you are still doing the same shit at 37, you're probably never gonna change, and I'm not the man for you.

wekacuck · 2019-12-18T19:01:12+00:00

It really depends.

If you look at my post history then you would know I'm with a guy that's in a dark place.

Those posts are all removed. What do they say?

Dora_Bowl · 2019-12-18T19:04:23+00:00

It depends on how they act about it.

wtknight · 2019-12-18T19:40:33+00:00

Probably only if I were married to her.

goatismycopilot · 2019-12-18T21:16:58+00:00

Nope.

H2orocks3000 · 2019-12-18T21:53:42+00:00

I woke up with complex trauma and in working through this I actually feel bad for guys in relationships that have a girl ditch them at their moment of weakness because we know that things like Aces impact people and from my assessment, this is not a topic that many ever think to question super well. At same time , the process for me for instance has been messy, but the direction towards a hope filled life of engadgment and full of connection and things that matter. I’m trying to truly awaken, but I have also struggled along this path. And there are plenty of places where I found I didn’t know the next problem to solve or was in a place where there where too many answers and god dang how on earth do you integrate that all together. But I had to keep fighting, my goal in a way was to make a bit of a new person, which also ties into some apparent core beliefs I have (that something is wrong with me). And while I wouldn’t drop this process for anything, it’s hard to see some things. If able I recommend him get on BetterHelp for therapy or see an actual therapuist, but also draw a Lin in. The sand to learn and find ways to create a stronger more resilient him. One that can weather these storms with hope. What he is lacking at the moment is hope, and this is. Its not a mark of character, but in just reading hope rising - I see better how to even take myself and apply it more to my life and create more upward spirals.

My “waking up” to all sorts of stuff in life started much like this guys did.

hammerhaunts · 2019-12-18T22:41:23+00:00

Thatgurl_overthere · 2019-12-19T01:54:12+00:00

Yes but only if they are legitimately working hard and consistently to get through them then I will be as supportive as I can. If not then I might consider ending the relationship.

DaphneDK42 · 2019-12-19T02:52:40+00:00

Yes. For a period. I'll expect her to pick up and deal with it after having been in the dumpster for a while; not to wallow in it indefinitely.

CHAD_TDK · 2019-12-19T03:44:39+00:00

TL;DR: NO

there are no "struggle years" only "struggles". Relationship are supposed to enhance both people's lives; 2 happy people getting together to springboard into something greater and better, where the sky is the floor.

Unfortunately too many times people believe that a relationship is a cure to unhappiness/mental illness; and the other party, with their own issues, are looking for a "project" to make themselves feel better.

Freud & Jung would have a lot to say about that.

Not good. Not for anyone involved, and their six degrees of separation friends/family.

Swap_The_Gender · 2019-12-19T05:42:08+00:00

You are with him as a companion, to help him on his way. The further you go, the less easy it will be to withdraw; yet no oath or bond is laid on you to go further than you will. For you do not yet know the strength of your heart

_nephila · 2019-12-19T06:03:52+00:00

Yes I have and I would do so again.

Mountain_Fever · 2019-12-19T10:24:38+00:00

If they don't at least try to get better (success is not necessary, but trying is), then yes. I have and would do it again.

Willow-girl · 2019-12-19T12:18:23+00:00

Aren't all the years "struggle" years? sigh

abaxeron · 2019-12-19T13:36:17+00:00

Honestly? - I don't know. 20 years ago, I'd say that this is obligation. You're with someone - stay with them especially when they're "in the dark place". Now, I don't know; it will depend on the situation.

2019-12-19T15:22:42+00:00

Ask yourself this question:

Would you stay with you, if you fell into a dark place? If you started to become needy and clingy and pathetic?

Would you expect a man to? Would you disappointed if he abandoned you in that state or would you blame yourself?

If you're looking for the answer to a moral conundrum, the first step is to clarify your own values. People online can't do that for you.

OttoVonBismark71 · 2019-12-19T19:51:29+00:00

If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's that it doesn't matter how alpha, beautiful, amazing, or perfect you are. How incredible you think you are or how immune you think you are. Life still comes at you and even 'perfect people' are just one miscalculation or bad luck away from calamity.

So go ahead and leave, but don't be shocked when you get hit by something too and you get your karma.

Workaholiconew · 2019-12-20T03:18:01+00:00

Depends.

If she is a gf or someone which I considered worth in the long run I would stay by their side, I would know it is a temporary thing.

I know you are a woman and will inevitably leave him if he does not recover quickly.

It is not a problem, he probably know it will happen anyway. it happens to us all the time, we just consider it a fact of life. Women are not there help men. Ever.

But if you gonna accept your nature, do it fast. You want to avoid leaving him without any ground and really depending on you, as he might just suicide otherwise, when the reason for his life (you) leaves him, and he has no reason or way to improve.

DubsPackage · 2019-12-20T10:10:28+00:00

Nowadays not so much.

Most women wouldn't stick by their man, so why should I.

I feel like I always have to be on top of things, and have my shit together at all times, I have no right to be "weak" but a woman can just fall apart and turn into a babbling idiot, and YTA for putting her out.

Women will complain that "I have to support him, this sucks! I have to dip into my savings!"

Meanwhile some guy will support a woman for 15-20 years without complaint, lose half his net worth in a divorce and keep on keeping on.

Fun Fact : If you call the cops to kick a woman out, they're more likely to arrest you than escort her from the premises.

Joey_Lopez · 2019-12-18T19:02:06+00:00

Well with females now refusing to love a man that's still in school and still trying to make a place for himself in the world, they shouldn't be surprised when those same men leave them when they get old and aren't as hot as they used to be.

2019-12-18T19:05:35+00:00

No. I've seen way too many people abandon their partners during struggle years, I know they would abandon me in a heartbeat if it went the other way, and the only reason they wouldn't is if they could get something out of me.

It's not a real issue either way though, I'm in no danger of this happening either way

Barely-moral · 2019-12-18T19:33:58+00:00

I have no problem with the lack of a job/income. Needy and clingy are positives.

"Pathetic piece of crap" is way too vague. Please esplain what you mean by that and I will give you a complete answer.

Except for that term... I see nothing wrong. Seems like I have no problem.

Title	Discussion: Would you be with someone who's in their "struggle" years?
Author	OddButton6
Upvotes	19
Comments	121
Date	December 18, 2019 6:57 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ecgufp/discussion_would_you_be_with_someone_whos_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-would-you-be-with-someone-whos-in-their.300930 https://theredarchive.com/post/300930

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