Is the average woman simply more attractive than the average man?

DicamVeritatem · 2020-02-04T14:15:32+00:00

Women absolutely have higher physical standards.

Just consider the metric of height. Half of all men are shorter than 5’9 1/2”. With the exception of serious outliers with god-tier faces, most women consider these guys unattractive right out of the chute. There are no female physical flaws that one is born with that disqualify that wide a swath of females from attractiveness.

Sir_manalot · 2020-02-04T12:39:42+00:00

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Ordinary-West · 2020-02-04T13:01:12+00:00

Average woman without make up, is pretty much just plain jane. They aren't more attractive than average men. But average men are 100 times more thirsty than women and well, we think with our dicks quite a lot.

DicamVeritatem · 2020-02-04T11:02:23+00:00

If the OKCupid survey taught anything, it was that in the realm of physical attractiveness, women do not understand the meaning of “average”. Whereas the male perception of female attractiveness followed a classic bell curve distribution, as it must, female perception of male attractiveness was wildly skewed, with a colossal 81% of men regarded as below average looking - an arithmetic impossibility.

Well written post, OP. Lot of material there. And it could be broken into two, perhaps, with a discussion on your “this leads me to...” paragraph.

CainPrice · 2020-02-04T13:52:36+00:00

You are biologically wired to find men who are “works of art” alluring and men who are just like every other man invisible, or possibly rape threats. This isn’t a problem with men. It’s your brain working the way it’s supposed to.

Take one of those average guys and give him an admirable job and make him the life of the party as he demonstrates his amazing social skills and connections all night and he will literally look hotter to you. That is also your brain functioning properly.

rogicar · 2020-02-04T12:20:21+00:00

Women are 10% more likely to be ~~obeast~~ overweight, so I don't think they're much more attractive than the average guy, if they are. Guys are just easily stimulated visually.

Plus, women seem to think average means the bare minimum a guy must look for her to be willing to be open to his advances and it's pretty much a given that the average girl initially requires much higher than average looking guy if she's just judging by looks.

sosayeth · 2020-02-04T12:30:57+00:00

Yes. Almost every woman who is in shape, whatever her natural body type is, is decently attractive (with or without makeup.)

beyond98 · 2020-02-04T13:08:55+00:00

I think it's more likely for men to see a more woman attractive than women finding a man attractive, because of the polygamous nature of men and the hypergamous nature of women.

Here is a graph that supports my hypothesis.

EDIT: I thought I could add something, and that is the fact that men are getting less masculine in the last decades, in the sense that the average man of certain age nowadays have less testosterone than the average man of some decades ago

ohheyhi99 · 2020-02-04T17:19:47+00:00

You might be onto something. I can think of some other factors:

1) Standards for female attractiveness have become more inclusive than men’s in some ways. Imagine if men became fixated on dating women below 5’5 or 5’3 so they could feel more masculine or have shorter daughters. Huge swaths of the female population would be considered less conventionally attractive overnight. In America, 5’8 women would be seen the way that 5’5-5’6 men are seen.

2) Some of men’s attractive features are more hidden. Women have boobs on their chests. Men can’t go around showing off their erect dicks or that “V” area below our waistline that many women love.

3) Most men don’t wear makeup, and you’re more likely to find someone’s body attractive if you like the face on top.

binkerfluid · 2020-02-04T19:26:35+00:00

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exit_sandman · 2020-02-04T14:24:07+00:00

Several elements flow into your (somewhat valid) observations.

"Beauty" as a concept simply means "signals of being good mating material". In the eyes of men that isn't a tall order - after all, all a woman needs is the ability to carry children to term in order to be worthy of investment. For women on the other hand - due to the high opportunity costs that come with procreation (among them the ability to have kids with other men during the same timespan) - men need to bring a lot more to the table than just fertility. Which however also means that women do have high standards - they just didn't come out of nowhere.
One consequence of (1) is young women being naturally privileged when it comes to perceived attractiveness - after all, they're at their most robust, healthy and fertile, i.e. the traits that are attractive to men in general the average young woman has in spades; both compared to their male age peers as well as older women. If you see 10 cute girls for every cute guy (I assume you're dealing with a younger crowd here) this is the logical consequence - even average young women are generally attractive by nature while the same doesn't automatically apply to men.
Women are generally far better at dressing up than men - this one is more the result of neglect than anything else.
It's funny that you mention "average" and "working out" in the same paragraph, but you aren't even wrong: What's average for men in today's society is far less attractive (evolutionary speaking) than what's average for women. Think of it - for almost the entirety of humanity's existence, hard physical labor was the norm and the ability to hunt and fight was a must for men. How do you think did a caveman who was supposed to hunt mammoths or fend off wolves look like - and how do you think would a modern man fare in such an environment? We didn't involve to find pencil-pushers attractive, even though these are perfectly able to produce viable offspring and help them grow up in today's environment. Women on the other hand are far better suited to meet their ancestral roles, even absent the hardship of the days gone by.
Where I'd say you're wrong is the height issue: most modern men are notably taller than their ancestors and also notably taller than women. The fact that women seem to be obsessed with comparing them to the tallest 5% worldwide and also with them having to meet a highly arbitrary number (and yes, it is arbitrary if 6' is considered sufficiently tall in the US while 5'11"; while in countries using the metric system 5'11" is perfectly fine while 5'10" isn't) is on them and nobody else.

OpdatUweKutSchimmele · 2020-02-04T16:00:37+00:00

This leads me to the SMP. Is the “disparity” in it really about hypergamy/polygyny? Are women really not that attracted to their “equals” because they have sky high standards, or do their ‘equals’ just not have innately attractive feats?

Little to do with innate—it's makeup.

I'm especially weirded out by males who do physical excercise to improve their beauty which is covered up 99% of the time with clothes? Do they really think that's more important than face and hair?

It's also a matter of supply and demand. Apparently about 60% of females say they like long hair on males more depending on the poll you look into. Even if it were 30%, even if it were 10%... how many males have long hair? It's the market you dive into. If only 10% of the population wants your product, but you're the only one that's producing it then you earn buckets.

Growing hair out is such an easy thing to do and will drastically improve a male's prospects.

blackedoutfast · 2020-02-04T16:33:03+00:00

maybe you're not as straight as you think you are.

WiterS2 · 2020-02-04T16:34:11+00:00

State and religious forced monogamy has distorted the understanding of relationships.

If monogamy were natural, then it wouldn't make sense to compare male and female attractiveness. The average woman, no matter her relative attractiveness to men, would mate with the average male, because that's the best she could do.

But that's not how nature designed humans. Women are designed to make babies only with the most attractive men (and attractive doesn't mean handsome, but all the traits that women really find alluring in men).

So, the natural state is polygyny, and a large majority of incels.

SpinPlates · 2020-02-05T03:09:09+00:00

I think the average women has a WAAAAY higher SMV than the average man.

Even ugly, obese women have dudes hitting on them daily, even more than attractive men getting approached by women.

Ugly, obese men get zero women hitting on them...this is why I cringe at the "Femcel" sub. Most of them aren't virgins. They just cry about not having a long term chad boyfriend.

MentleGentlemen098 · 2020-02-04T11:45:26+00:00

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twopeas3296 · 2020-02-04T11:09:34+00:00

Because makeup.

2020-02-04T14:43:05+00:00

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Believeinyourflyness · 2020-02-04T13:04:36+00:00

Is the average job simply better than the average candidate?

2020-02-04T16:25:31+00:00

In relative terms, yes.

In absolute terms, men are simply just thirstier.

LikeNever · 2020-02-04T17:12:56+00:00

Are women really not that attracted to their “equals” because they have sky high standards, or do their ‘equals’ just not have innately attractive feats?

A distinction without a difference. There is a difference of opinion as to whether attraction is really a choice or not, but as a practical matter the effect is the same.

Are men really happy to dive below their league because their sex drives “allow” them to be attracted to most women, or is it just that most women have innately attractive features?

Neither. Guys dive below their league to get laid. Give him enough of a dry spell and/or enough alcohol, and dudes will fuck anything on two legs

RedditRouge00 · 2020-02-04T18:00:32+00:00

I’d say most women are just plain , or above average in general.Women have the endless supply of male thirst on their side meaning know matter what she looks like, ugly or beautiful men will want her(maybe not the men she’s interested in)and society will always take their side .85% of men I’d say are basically invisible to the average woman unless he’s so attractive that she consciously notices. The average man has to actually improve everything about themselves (Body, fashion,job, looks,etc)to get the attention they desire.Women don’t necessarily have to do any of this to receive attention from men , they can just exist and receive it passively . Which is their greatest asset.

volchonok1 · 2020-02-04T20:38:24+00:00

It depends extremely on the location. Haven't been to US, so can't say about american men/women. But I've been around Europe and can say that ratio of beautiful men to beautiful women is very different - in some countries both men and women are nice looking, in some men are on average better looking (surprisingly that can happen too), in some women are on average more beautiful. Highly depends on genetics, diet (healthier - less obesity - more nice looking people) and style (clothes and haircuts - I'd say Italian men come on top in that regard).

v1cgt · 2020-02-04T23:07:59+00:00

Thing most guys dont get care to.much over silly things like height. Most women are average looking they just where makeup which is fine most guys are average also.

The_Mole_Dizzle · 2020-02-05T00:59:00+00:00

no, look through my hinge potential matches, every one of them is obese by over 50 pounds

their faces are also wrinked up at 25, I'm 26 and smooth

wtknight · 2020-02-04T13:11:25+00:00

This leads me to the SMP. Is the “disparity” in it really about hypergamy/polygyny? Are women really not that attracted to their “equals” because they have sky high standards, or do their ‘equals’ just not have innately attractive feats?

It’s because they have sky high standards. The average Western man can go to Asia and instantly become an “attractive man” because of female hypergamy.

Rock_Bravura · 2020-02-04T15:02:41+00:00

attractive men; tall, white, angular Viking types

unattractive men; indians, east asians, south asians, pakis, iraqis, somalis -- every each one of these redpilled hoes spills a insane racial bias when it comes to judging and sorting out what is "attractive" .

He doesn't have to be named Chad does he?

Riat567 · 2020-02-04T18:35:14+00:00

Is the way people are raise think about this theres 2 rule to getting a mate 1.Be attractive 2 Dont be unattractive.

Since Childhood girls are raise and push to follow rule 1. so they spend most there life Looksmaxing to best of there ability and thanks to tha they can get the attention to find a partner BUT for boys since i can remember there really wasent a incentive to do the same so guy in general fall behind in the attraction department and some of them change when there dating life sucks and want to change so they start hitting the gym, finding stylesh cloaths work on themself and confidence and get a haircut tha makes them looks better and start mewing to make there jaw more masculine etc.

so thas why the average guy seems to be just "there" while the average girl seems notocibale

JaJammerJan · 2020-02-04T12:34:21+00:00

For me it is mostly style and caring about hair and skin. I lived in a city where guys just didn’t care about their style and appearance. Thus making an 9/10 into an 4-5/10 just because he didn’t take care of what style would fit his bonestructure the best.

Now that I live in a city where a lot of guys actually care and think about how their style could do them favors I see many cute guys.

Guy, style and knowing what works for you build can make you from a 4 into a 7 without working out or anything. Just learn about different hairstyles, groomings and clothing. Having a good style and carrying yourself with confident is such a huge factor in how you are recieved!

2020-02-04T12:10:30+00:00

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extrachromozomes · 2020-02-04T18:30:28+00:00

All women try hard to look good, not all men try hard to look good

PMmeareasontolive · 2020-02-04T20:47:05+00:00

A few years ago I bought some 1940's, 1950's college yearbooks from a thrift store. When I look at the portraits in those books, side by side, row after row, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is equal (or pretty darn close). Although, back then guys often did have stylin' haircuts, perhaps more so than now.

Steorra9 · 2020-02-04T11:55:20+00:00

This is my subjective opinion but I think there are more unattractive men than unattractive women and more pretty girls than handsome guys. When I think of all of the most attractive people I've seen, they are mostly women.

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2020-02-04T12:45:57+00:00

I think young fatboys even often have handsome faces and nice hair. What about hip flexors? They're like a sexual feature on men.

2020-02-04T15:42:08+00:00

Attractiveness is subjective, and both genders experience it differently based on different cues. What men find attractive in women != what women find attractive in men, what men find attractive in other men definitely != what women find attractive in men, or in other women.

If you don’t understand how this makes a direct comparison of male/female attractiveness impossible, you need to reflect harder.

cxj · 2020-02-04T20:39:38+00:00

decoy88 · 2020-02-05T00:45:20+00:00

Women spend more time, energy and money on improving their appearance.

They also take more selfies and generally have better looking photos on dating profiles.

By 20-ish, most are aware of “their good side”

In comparison, guys don’t put much thought into appearance generally. This is changing with Gen Z however

atlantisasalover · 2020-02-05T02:15:06+00:00

Yes. The average man just looks like a functional normal person. The average female is better looking. We're called the fairer sex for a reason lmao.

darksoldierk · 2020-02-05T02:30:12+00:00

Attractive to who? Attraction is subjective. But, assuming attraction is objective as you are implying, the truth of the matter is this: Men have always, and I mean always, been stressing the importance of looks. Men have been honest about what they want and what they like, even in the earliest books, women are described in terms of beauty. Men, on the other hand, have been associated with power and wealth. Is it really a surprise to you that a person who has made scrambled eggs every day of their life can make a better scrambled egg then the person who's made it once a month?

You can see these effects in our society.Men are the ones who have more wealth and more power, and that's why our society has been implementing these superficial restrictions on men's ability to obtain wealthy and power. Whether those restrictions are fair (ie. restrictions against physical violance) or unfair (ie. gender quotas in the workplace, education curriculum and institutions that favor women etc.).

ReignRain95 · 2020-02-05T06:45:45+00:00

lionhart280 · 2020-02-07T01:34:37+00:00

Yes, women spend like 10x the effort on their appearance. They put way more effort into learning how to dress well, learn how to do makeup, style their hair, shave their legs, etc etc.

If a man put in the same kind if effort, hed also be as attractive.

Some men do. But most dont.

Which is mostly because no one ever bothered to teach them.

eboy4hire · 2020-02-08T05:24:29+00:00

I dropped all my standards to get with the ugliest fattest women I could find and I'm a 150-160lb 5'11" man. I would never do that if I felt like I had any free choice in the matter. Women just have way more leverage than men in relationships.

says_harsh_things · 2020-02-04T11:34:47+00:00

If we are speaking in averages, no. The "average" person is unattractive, both men and women. If you're noticing them, they probably arent average.

2020-02-04T11:50:53+00:00

The disparity you're seeing is due to the fact that women's attractiveness is entirely tied up in her looks, while men's is dependent on a lot more. Take one of those average looking guys and douse him in charisma and skill and power and suddenly you've got a very sexy guy.

But yeah I'd say that the average young woman is better looking than the average young man

Physiologist21 · 2020-02-04T15:42:26+00:00

Here’s what I think is happening. An average dude goes “Hey, I’m about average compared to other men, so I should get with a woman who’s also average compared to other women.”

Where they fuck up though is not realizing that the average woman wears makeup, watches her figure, wears flattering clothes and has a skincare routine, whereas the man can barely match his clothes and might wash his face once a week.

2020-02-04T12:41:11+00:00

It's really simple

Men are visually attracted to women which is why we don't give a shit and will have kids with the scullery maid.

Women care about a man's status and productivity (both actual and potential)

It's two different measurements. Yes, there are men who are good enough looking that they will illicit primal urges from women but this is not a lot of men and women have to think far more long term than us, given the disproportionate challenges bringing a life into the world present for them.

So it's apples and oranges

FreakXAurora · 2020-02-04T13:11:20+00:00

I don’t think there’s any objective idea of beauty, everyone differs. To one person your a 10, to another hour a 3. As a bisexual female I, in general find that women are more attractive. women who men say are 5/10s are gorgeous but men rated 5/10 aren’t as attractive to me. That’s me personally though.

GreenSatyr · 2020-02-04T13:39:01+00:00

I suspect you just think this because you're a straight woman. So you are looking at other woman with eyes that are socially conditioned to objectify and evaluate aesthetics, whereas when you see a really attractive man, more instinctive, less socially conditioned responses come in.

Goes_Down_on_Women · 2020-02-04T14:21:45+00:00

Y'all are crazy. Men are way more aesthetic than women. Women are just more beautiful.

Men are like sports cars. Women are like ornate horse-drawn carriages.

SeemedGood · 2020-02-04T17:05:37+00:00

Nope. Women are just pickier by nature. You’re actually more visually stimulated. Men care a lot less about a woman’s appearance for attraction markers than women do about men. The difference is that women tend to have a dichotomy of attraction and are more likely to seek relationships from men to whom they are not actually sexually attracted, but to whom they are relationship attracted in exchange for the relationship utility that those men might provide.

Blightning421 · 2020-02-04T23:00:22+00:00

Women are considered more attractive on average because that's how western society currently behaves; gynocentric.

Think back 100 years ago, the 1920s: Black people were not considered attractive by standards then. You didnt see black folk portrayed positively in western society, let alone featured in advertisements and movies. Was that because black people aren't as attractive as white people or because western society was far more racist?

Its pretty obviously the latter when you consider that beauty standards today are often about emphasizing physical features that are commonly considered black such as big butts and big lips. It's why you have women such as Rihanna, Beyonce, Niki Minaj, and Cardi B as female sex symbols

TL;DR
Men are considered unattractive on average the same way black folk were a hundred years ago: bias

Cynewald · 2020-02-04T11:20:29+00:00

Women make an effort to look good, men don’t.

2020-02-04T12:57:03+00:00

The average woman is unfuckable to me.

Attractive is relative. It's easier for women to be though.

Notsonewguy7 · 2020-02-04T12:33:52+00:00

Honestly no. At least to me. I say the most ugly person will always be a man and the most attractive person will usually be a woman.

But I'm more picky when it comes to women so I have my own bias.

2020-02-04T15:11:08+00:00

Sounds like most women will have to settle. In the world you describe, I'd rather be the guy that great looking women have to settle for than be good looking but unable to date my equal in looks.

That said, relationships and 'personality' do play a part. There are good looking people that most of us can't stand to be around because they never had to develop a personality, or something. I really don't know the reason. And there are other folks that we all love to be around even though they may not be as physically attractive as others.

rus9384 · 2020-02-04T19:12:26+00:00

Very cute heterosexual prettyboys (yeah, round faces and so on, the stuff you think is beautiful) are not slaying as much as average (AVERAGE!) gays.

Lesbians are not having as much sex as gays as well. So, while it could be about men being less attractive, it is far from explaining everything.

Necessarythrowaway0 · 2020-02-04T12:20:19+00:00

This is so accurate. Men don’t really have much to look at on average. The female body is naturally beautiful in a way the male body just isn’t. Attractive men are an entirely different story though. 🤤

Title	Is the average woman simply more attractive than the average man?
Author	hurtbeyondanypoint
Upvotes	28
Comments	246
Date	February 4, 2020 10:35 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/eyo707/is_the_average_woman_simply_more_attractive_than/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-the-average-woman-simply-more-attractive-than.329583 https://theredarchive.com/post/329583

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