Would you sacrifice your own rights if you were convinced it would save society?

purpleturtlehurtler · 2020-07-09T17:00:24+00:00

This logic doesn't track from the get go. For whom is it better? We all focus on the rights of others but forget that we are all oppressed proletariat under the accumulated wealth and power of the ultra wealthy. Society doesn't benefit if the power structure isn't equitable.

Slyfer_Seven · 2020-07-09T16:59:57+00:00

What kind of society would I be preserving if that's the only way it can function? No thanks, time to head into mountains and ride out the collapse

_mwk · 2020-07-09T17:08:34+00:00

fuck no, a society were im a 2nd class citizen can fuck right off. i don't owe humanity shit if i don't get my part of the reward.

Teflon08191 · 2020-07-09T17:43:14+00:00

No society lasts forever.

Never has, never will.

Rather than attempting to save society, I would rather let it run its course so that it can get out of the way for whatever future societies that will rise from its ashes.

Circle of life...or society in this case.

softkermit · 2020-07-10T01:16:02+00:00

Yeah I’m ok with wearing a mask

OmarNBradley · 2020-07-09T17:08:53+00:00

This is the stupidest question I have ever seen in my life.

The answer is no.

Ordinate1 · 2020-07-09T17:41:47+00:00

That would be a form of societal collapse.

Asbelowsoaboveme · 2020-07-09T17:10:46+00:00

Absolutely not. A society that doesn’t give equal human rights to all of its citizens is not a society worth preserving.

I’d rather live in familial hunter/gatherer groups and go hungry most days than be a second class citizen in a gilded cage.

Now, if the question is about saving the human species...I might be willing to sacrifice my own happiness for the greater evolutionary good. But if it’s just a civilization in danger and not humanity itself, then I’ll let that civilization die. People will always create more societies in the future, even if it takes a little while to pick up steam.

Workaholiconew · 2020-07-09T17:55:59+00:00

[deleted]

prostate-apostate · 2020-07-09T18:14:37+00:00

Nobody is going to say yes to this .

wtknight · 2020-07-09T18:38:08+00:00

To a degree. I don’t think I’d do something that caused me substantial physical pain or discomfort. Other than that I think people have a duty to make the choices that are best for society. They should choose what they would want other people to choose. And ideally, they should choose it behind an imaginary veil of ignorance in which they don’t already know that they are privileged people, as suggested by the late philosopher John Rawls.

Reisiluu · 2020-07-09T20:39:05+00:00

A society in which people have to give up their rights is not a society worth saving.

fukurou_no_fukuro · 2020-07-09T17:45:18+00:00

Of course not. Why would I want to save a society that requires half of its population to be a second class citizen? Why would I give up my own good for the benefit of the other half? Why would I sacrifice my and my female friends and family members rights for the benefit of the other half? What's the point of saving a society where half of the population has to be under someone's boot and can't work for its own happiness?

flamingoinghome · 2020-07-09T18:02:47+00:00

"Society"? In what way? My society, the one I live in, that I care about, would be destroyed if that happened. Such an act would be an act of destruction. The society that emerged would be a different one. And not one worth a damn.

Rahim556 · 2020-07-09T17:57:39+00:00

Never. This is why we have so many problems now... Everyone trying to get others to do things, their way, "the right way," for the good of society at the expense of individual liberty. To make a better society you literally have to say, "Fuck what's best for society," and make sure what's best for the individual " individual liberty" is preserved. When individual liberty is preserved, the conditions are then set for society to be better.

Edit: now if you asked something else, like would I give my life to save 100 (innocent) others, then the answer is yes.

Barely-moral · 2020-07-09T17:12:46+00:00

A society that does not treat everyone a an equal under the law is not a society I would sacrifice anything to defend.

Well, another way to phrase the hypothetical is to say humanity gets wiped out unless you take a hit for the team. I would personally let myself suffer some serious injury if it means sustaining our species.

That is a different hypothetical scenario. I would take the hit for the team in order to keep humanity from being wiped out because there is nothing else I could possibly do with my life that would have a bigger impact. So at that point I see no reason not to take the hit.

yasee · 2020-07-09T17:58:21+00:00

I don't really know how to answer this but if you haven't you should read the short story "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by ursula leguin

HappilyMrs · 2020-07-09T17:13:35+00:00

If I was convinced or if it was a provable certainty?

Am I saving society as in the country I live in, or the western world, or the planet? Can I guarantee my husband and child would not be negatively affected by my sacrifice?

Peacheslikeyou · 2020-07-09T19:18:36+00:00

No, retreat into the mountains it is

According-One-2930 · 2020-07-09T21:29:36+00:00

What about this: you are contagious with a virus. It does not affect you, but might kill some elderly people you come in contact with. Are you willing to go into house arrest? It turns out most people around the world are. I was surprised about this.

Everyone answering "FUCK NO" to this either:

does not comprehend the question, particularly what "convinced it would save society" means.
have not thought much about it at all

(Hint: societal collapse means no food, no water, no electricity, no sewage treatment. mad max within a few weeks. That is a world where women have no chance unless under protection by a man. btw, here is where we see the biological basis for monogamy.)

staypositivebrad · 2020-07-09T23:37:20+00:00

Shit no. I don't care about society at all, rest of y'all can die in a fire for all I care.

richlad · 2020-07-10T04:00:26+00:00

I am a guy, I've no problem trading away my personal freedom or individualistic self for greater good of society.

Infact, that's what got me rich. I was working on random project to help others and then the opportunity of wealth arrived out of nowhere.

I don't believe we should live for seflish goals and only enrich ourselves, best deals are always where everyone benefits. The deals where you benefit at expense of others don't last long and others are always on hook to overthrow you.

The person with power should be benevolent - people are far more likely to accept authority of benevolent leader than dictator types (when threats are removed).

I can decide for myself but I can't decide for others.

I believe number of successful relationships are dropping because today relationship is closely modelled as "business" where more people fail than succeed.

If you approach relationships like business, it's not going to end we'll. That said my personal relationships didn't last long and business relationships have lasted me since I started business.

It's far easier to maintain good business relationships and partners than it's to maintain good relationship.

Maybe it's because I am only dealing with very highly aware, not greedy partners? Maybe because my partners are male?

John_Oakman · 2020-07-10T21:41:07+00:00

People do that all the time, like joining the military. [laughs/cries in boot]

That aside I'd argue that the functioning off every society in human history has required some segment of its population to make the most sacrifice for the smooth operation of said society. Also of note is that said societies always select against those traits and runs out of those types after a while, usually leading to their fall (sometimes they fall do to external factors before internal collapse)

slavicgypsygirl · 2020-07-11T23:56:33+00:00

I wouldn't

rosyandthemachine · 2020-07-09T17:05:06+00:00

what a stupid question. absolutely not. never.

cloudydays84 · 2020-07-09T17:57:12+00:00

Nope, sounds like a poor society if it hinges on one person giving up their individual rights and liberty to function correctly. It seems like that society was on the road to collapse to begin with and letting it fall honestly would be more beneficial than not.

Even if this hypothetical was to go so far as to say that the society is and would be perfect if I made such a sacrifice (a la a The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas type deal) I'm still honest enough to admit that I'm too selfish to make that kind of deal.

I want society to get better, I want it to be function well and for everyone to be happy, at the same time I don't want that to built on my suffering or the suffering of any individual(s). Idealistic thinking? Maybe, but that's what I'm looking for and that's what I want to work towards.

daddysgotanew · 2020-07-09T18:25:50+00:00

Absolutely not. I don’t give a shit about anyone except a very small number of family and friends. Outside of that I couldn’t give a fuck less what happens to society as a whole. I want to live free and un-bothered. Now get off my lawn

SqueaksScreech · 2020-07-09T20:39:42+00:00

why the fuck should I want to give up my rights when I already get treated like shit for being brown and a woman. I don't owe anyone shit every person for themselves.

Suck-Less · 2020-07-09T17:13:25+00:00

No. No society requiring me to relinquish my rights to save it is a society worth saving.

goatismycopilot · 2020-07-09T19:35:05+00:00

Nope.

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12112019 · 2020-07-09T17:10:42+00:00

No there is no such thing as a society, there is government who owns a monopoly of violence which redistributes portions of my income to the "society", I believe I had done more than enough for this so called society.

Gabo9718 · 2020-07-09T19:34:46+00:00

You’re right, but my answer is still NO, There is another solution though, not submitting to the other but splitting away from it, so they can both have their own respective societies the fuck away from one another.

analt223 · 2020-07-09T19:39:12+00:00

depends on what "more power" means.

Lately were seeing "if we dont have 50/50 ratios in a power structure its evil and sexist and must be changed!"

I dont want any woman to be denied the right to vote, be a CEO, president, etc. But I also dont think "equality of the sexes" is this attempt were seeing to legislate away "the patriarchy". Trying to legislate is problem is just causing more backlash and hatred between the genders.

Fun fact: the "evil patriarchy" only exists because its harder to be a dateable/marriable/casually fuckable man than woman.

acron5n5 · 2020-07-09T19:46:31+00:00

This question is too broad. Which rights? Why? What will the society look like?

In general giving away your liberties for any reason rarely leads to any good. In theory I could imagine myself doing this though.

Ecocavalry · 2020-07-09T19:51:59+00:00

Think this game theoretically and you would realize individual choice doesn't matter in this case.

VoiceOfTheMillenium · 2020-07-09T20:39:38+00:00

No. For this society you need to be a fool to sacrifice anything.

dylang92 · 2020-07-09T20:58:47+00:00

No, what is this?

redthrowaway400 · 2020-07-10T20:16:30+00:00

FUCK SOCIETY!

Throughawayman80808 · 2020-07-11T07:39:40+00:00

No? Why should I care?

interdimensionalgang · 2020-07-11T19:31:17+00:00

No I would not as this is false fallacy that you are promoting. If sacrificing my rights, which are the same as all human rights will save society then it follows that all humans will also have to sacrifice this same right, thus whatever right it is is no longer a human right

If i commit a crime however which is not a human right, then yes that behaviour/crime should be stopped to save society. Yet such a deed I dare say would not be classified as a human right to begin with.

So absolutely not - human rights are rights for all humans and i will not sacrifice mine at all. Are you trying to say some human rights are more entitled then others? Sacrifice your own then don't make someone else your martyr.

onacloverifalive · 2020-07-14T00:26:38+00:00

Those that would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security deserve neither.

BillGatesOwnsMonsato · 2020-07-14T16:20:27+00:00

Swift-Carrots · 2020-07-09T17:03:22+00:00

Zippo-Cat · 2020-07-09T17:56:50+00:00

Look at all the enlightenmentards here lol. Including the OP.

I mean, where do I even begin? That this question makes absolutely no sense in context of PPD? That your "political rights" aren't actually worth jack shit because voting is almost entirely meaningless? That you can be a "2nd class citizen" and still live happily so what does it even matter? That all your "rights" are just made up imaginary bullshit and not actually guaranteed in any way?

TheKarmicWoosh2 · 2020-07-09T18:16:39+00:00

Would you lock yourself in a cage to live indefinitely?

Workaholiconew · 2020-07-09T18:30:10+00:00

Depends. Would I really be the only one losing his rights?

I still have this childish spark of saving the world. So I could sell my freedom if it was to guarantee everyone else's happiness. Heck even if it was just for those I care for. But it would never work like that in real life. Would it?

I would have to sacrifice my rights and of the many others. I would be condemning my entire gender unto slavery. I would make many, including those I care about, more unhappy than in the beginning. I would not be really saving society but condemning it to a zombie like state wouldn't I?

That is how ideologies and religions get you. Reality is a give and take. And It does not sit well for me to take something from another.

the_purring_jew · 2020-07-09T19:11:59+00:00

There is no such thing as society or societal collapse

I am sure all of the disgusting leftists and collectivist here will jump all over themselves to virtue signal

Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2020-07-09T19:57:03+00:00

I live in a country where societal collapse means people killing each other on the streets.

When this happens (and it happened actually, only 50 years ago) people DO give up on its political rights and live as a 2nd class citizens without thinking twice, just to be safe again.

You seem to think that this is like "hey so, the decline is coming... But you can save your people! Just, ya nou... Vote for me, Netflix and chill for a few days and all will be solved". Nah man, when someone takes away your rights, he (becouse it's usually is a man) is not asking you shit, and you have only a few choices: stick your head into the sand, die or fight, and I think those are all you have.

Not a great time to live in but yes, it happens.

Big_Dick_Capitalist · 2020-07-09T17:34:10+00:00

Yes, a patriarchy would be unlimited times better than a matriarchy. Women shouldn't be allowed to vote anwyays, look at the entire left, marxists, sjw's, lgbt faggots etc.

Title	Would you sacrifice your own rights if you were convinced it would save society?
Author	fukurou_no_fukuro
Upvotes	11
Comments	218
Date	July 9, 2020 4:53 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ho6mng/would_you_sacrifice_your_own_rights_if_you_were/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/would-you-sacrifice-your-own-rights-if-you-were.713200 https://theredarchive.com/post/713200

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