Should abortion be a mutual decision?

Sage_Planter · 2021-06-04T00:08:27+00:00

Yes, we do have technology to implant a woman with an embryo, but it's currently not possible to transfer an embryo from one woman to another. There's currently no way for a pregnant woman to transfer her pregnancy to another woman. Also, a surrogate currently costs an average of $90,000 to $130,000, so this isn't something the vast majority of men could even feasibly consider financially.

Is it totally fair that a pregnant woman can decide to get an abortion or not, but a man gets no say? No. Is biology totally fair when it comes to making babies, though? Also no. The problem is that you're trying to come up with a perfect solution to an imperfect, biological problem. There's no absolutely fair solution to a biologically unfair problem. We saw similar issues when trying to balance the economy vs COVID. The current system's not perfect, but it's probably as good as it's going to get. Maybe if science changes, laws can change, too. In the meantime, we're stuck doing what we can with what biology has given us.

Notsonewguy7 · 2021-06-04T00:47:23+00:00

No.

Making a woman keep a baby she doesn't want seems like a horror show.

Making a woman get rid of a baby she wants feels traumatizing.

No good options.

DespondentColors · 2021-06-04T00:19:48+00:00

You don’t understand how surrogacy works.

Novadina · 2021-06-04T02:00:42+00:00

My theory is that he could find a woman for pay and transfer the embryo to her (which is totally possible in today’s day and age ) often some rich families do it...

This is not actually possible today. People can grow a new embryo by extracting an egg and sperm separately and fertilizing them in a lab, then transferring them to a uterus, but there is not currently any technology to extract an embryo or fetus from a uterus and keep it alive in order to transplant it to someone else.

Please do share if you have a resource saying otherwise.

death_by_1000_cats · 2021-06-04T02:14:56+00:00

My theory is that he could find a woman for pay and transfer the embryo to her (which is totally possible in today's day and age ) often some rich families do it...

Rich families don't take an embryo from one woman's body and implant it in another. They create the embryo in a lab and implant it into the woman. I don't think there's any way to extract an embryo from the mother without killing it.

So, no, this isn't possible. The only way to do what you're proposing is to force the mother to go through with an unwanted pregnancy.

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-06-04T00:57:02+00:00

I mean as long as there was no Shenanigans it would be nice if there was a mutual decision but that's just not how it works out, if she doesn't want the baby it's not going to happen even if the father does, or even on the flip side if the father wants her to get an abortion, and she doesn't want one boom.

I think what would be ultimately Fair would be to get off the hook for child support but that's just not how it works right now , another example of why there's no such thing as an equal relationship

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-06-04T07:16:35+00:00

Your disappointing ignorance of how a uterus works is why we don't want men to have any say over uteri.

StiophanOC · 2021-06-04T07:16:36+00:00

If the guy wants a baby and the woman he is having sex with doesn't, time for him to look into adopting or paying a woman somewhere on planet Earth to be impregnated and carry his child for nine months.

A woman's body is hers.

Same way if I were having sex with a woman, she gets no say if I have a vasectomy.

She can leave the relationship, she gets no say in my body.

BarestBranch · 2021-06-04T04:39:52+00:00

No. Abortion is about bodily autonomy. The person who is pregnant decides whether to keep it or not, simple as that.

currently_confused50 · 2021-06-04T07:41:53+00:00

I believe this is where society interests and ideology disucssions clash very hard. No country ever will provide equity in the case of abortion because it goes against bodily autonomy (abortion, guy wants to keep a baby) and it goes against societal interests (financial abortion). So what you are reading in this thread is basically people trying to rationalize inequality because they would rather die than admit they are having a douboe standard.

ConsistencySeeker · 2021-06-04T00:42:18+00:00

Women’s body women’s choice imo.

Men should have a window of time to decide if he wants to pay or not though. His wallet.

UrFoodMolestedMyNose · 2021-06-04T00:11:01+00:00

It still wouldn’t work because the woman would have a carry a child she doesn’t want for 9 months of her life.

The baby can not survive without doing that therefore? if she doesn’t want to do that it gets aborted.

She’s within her rights to refuse to carry it. Her body, her choice

MeowNeowBeenz · 2021-06-04T00:08:59+00:00

I feel like men should definitely be allowed a say. However, women still get to make the final decision either way.

Women are the ones who have to carry it to term and breastfeed it,for starters.

On top of that, women are the ones who wind up doing the majority of the childcare/child rearing. Traditionally speaking. Women, also, have to take more time off work due to children -- be it for prenatal visits, giving birth, taking children to doctors appointments, etc.

So,in the end, having a child has a much larger impact on women that it does on men. For men -- it's mainly more of a financial hit and degrees of life adjustment, depending on how involved they are.

As for the abortion end of the spectrum, the woman is the one who has to undergo the procedure and it is not without risk. The man can sign away his parental rights if he does not want the child and she chooses to have it.

Yeah, sure you may be on the hook financially; however, that's a risk you agreed to when you had sex. Whether you realized it or not. Life's not fair and it never will be.

As for the scenario you speak of -- that is financially prohibitive and not always an ideal concept for both parties. Nor do I believe it's 100% possible.

SaBahRub · 2021-06-04T06:02:01+00:00

I’m for anything that results in less unwanted people

AntWillFortune15 · 2021-06-04T22:01:09+00:00

Then go have a child with a woman willing. Problem solved...

Maximum-Biscotti-247 · 2021-06-05T02:06:35+00:00

I would never deal with a woman that believe in abortion. I can't honestly trust someone who support abortion because of reasons like money.

Not likely to happen but if I got a woman pregnant and she wanted an abortion I would never talk to her again.

mimblezimble · 2021-06-04T00:43:07+00:00

In Islamic law, a man agrees to the pregnancy by marrying the woman before sexual intercourse.

Without marriage, he is not financially responsible for any resulting child.

Having sex outside marriage, is an sin. The man will not be required to pay anything to the woman because that would allow the woman to benefit from her misbehavior.

Furthermore, even in the case of marriage, custody of the child is transferred from mother to father once the child reaches the age of reason.

midwestufohunter · 2021-06-04T00:29:42+00:00

Was infanticide a mutual decision when it is practiced?

welcometothejl · 2021-06-04T00:04:02+00:00

If the man chooses to keep the baby the woman should have to pay him child support for 18 years. Not because it is fair, but because that is basically the system we have in reverse.

StrengthAndHealth · 2021-06-04T14:10:05+00:00

If a man doesn’t want to keep the baby from a very early developmental point, he shouldn’t be forced into paying child support... he shouldn’t be FORCED to do anything either. It’s quite simple, and “her body her choice” existing (rightfully) shouldn’t somehow change that, but it does and it’s awful.

The argument then becomes “he shouldn’t have chosen to have sex with her then”.... but this goes both ways, how about we use the same reason on the woman r.e. abortion choice? You wouldn’t like that, nor would anybody.

NoMarriageNoKids · 2021-06-04T16:16:11+00:00

If the man doesn't want the child, but the woman does and has sole decision-making authority, then the man shouldn't be forced to pay for the child.

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MakingAnimeReal · 2021-06-04T03:24:07+00:00

Financial abortion maybe. I think the fact that a woman's internal plumbing can be damaged by abortions stops me short of proclaiming that the man should have a say.

Or I guess I could also say, he did have a say, should've wrapped up

Pola_Lita · 2021-06-04T06:57:12+00:00

My theory is that he could find a woman for pay and transfer the embryo to her (which is totally possible in today's day and age ) often some rich families do it...

Who does this??

People are forced to pay because our society believes everyone has a right to parental support. The man willingly contributed to the child's creation. Even though the woman's contribution is more complicated and involved, it should be just as willing.

343_peaches_and_tea · 2021-06-04T12:17:54+00:00

No. Sometimes we have different rules for the sexes for very good reasons.

This is one of those times.

Hungry-Nebula · 2021-06-04T15:33:33+00:00

I don't think we have the technology to transfer a growing fetus from one womb to another. We have the ability to transport an unfertilised egg into another womb, then fertilise it.

IOportA · 2021-06-04T22:28:54+00:00

If men could force women to have an abortion status wouldn't mean as much anymore

A woman wouldn't be as inclined to fuck a rich/famous dude if she knew she couldn't trap him

Very interesting thought

fridoden · 2021-06-05T18:48:11+00:00

Yes and no. Ultimately no because a man can impregnate thousands of women in a single year while a woman can basically give birth once a year.

A man is not the one carrying the baby. So he doesnt have to deal with any of the physical and there for mental complications. And many women have chronic issues long after birth. Some permanent. A womans body changes during birth permanently. Such as your breasts will fully mature and hit their final stage of any change. So on and so on.

In a way yes because discussing protection and taking care of if is both the womans and the mens job. If this isnt mutually discussed then why are you even fucking?

On top of that pregnancy effects the woman socially, mentally and physically and its nearly impossible to hide while a man can flee the scene almost completely unaffected. Pregnancy can be traumatic. Being forced to give birth. And being forced to abort is extremely extremely traumatising.

PeskyHijinks · 2021-06-05T21:53:42+00:00

Hmm. Good question. I feel probably not. BUT! I also feel that if a man has no legal right whether to have a baby or not, then he should be able to bow out entirely if he wants to. He shouldn't be held legally responsible for a decision a woman makes he cannot have a say in. I think men should be allowed to not be fathers, but st the same time, they cant come in later and try to be in that child's life. I think the punishment should be extremely severe if that happens. This is almost surely an unpopular opinion that will be me downvoted to oblivion. But if a woman is allowed to kill a baby I should be allowed to abandon them.

blueXcat · 2021-06-06T03:48:49+00:00

No

It's not at all possible, what you describe, by the way

Children should be opt in, Like marriage

Men should have paper abortion and women still own their body so real abortions

SupremeDreams99 · 2021-06-06T19:39:42+00:00

No, however I do believe paper abortions should be a thing you can’t mutually decide to have sex but only one of you unilaterally holds to decision to be a parent. If two people have a sex that’s results in a pregnancy if a women doesn’t want it and the man does she should end it and he’s just SOL, if the doesn’t want it and he does he should declare a paper abortion(within the same amount of time she has to get a regular abortion) and she’s just SOL, sounds cruel but it’s ultimately what’s fair.

Side note: I don’t think this would be too common but I think women should declare paper abortions too, she can have the baby if the man truly wants it and she doesn’t want to deprive him of that or whatever but also give up all her parenting duties and responsibilities after the birth, not sure how common it’d be but I’d like an a option like that for the people that would use it

JB8511R · 2021-06-04T00:59:04+00:00

Yes.

mechanical_elves · 2021-06-04T01:02:12+00:00

I have a plan where agreement isn't needed, but it's still fair.

Any abortion should require the man to consent to a vasectomy before the abortion procedure is performed. If the man disagrees, the abortion can only proceed conditional upon a hysterectomy. Either way, if a fetus needs to die someone's bits need to get taken out too.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-06-04T01:33:56+00:00

The idea that the decision to abort or not is obviously just a matter of women controlling their own bodies is clearly wrong. Depending on your community's moral system, it clearly could be a matter of two lives, only one of which is the mother's.

So banning abortion, or controlling it, is conceivably legitimate. But to the extent that it is allowed, to the extent that one decides it is acceptable, then it clearly is only the woman's decision.

evasive_manuevers2 · 2021-06-04T02:09:05+00:00

I think the fact that men have NO say whatsoever in whether a woman aborts his late-term child is ridiculous. Say what you want about it being a necessary evil or something due to women's bodily autonomy, but please don't pretend like men aren't being put into a shitty position.

I can't imagine how enraging it would be to know your future kid has a heartbeat and can feel pain and is like 2-3 months away from exiting the womb and then the "mom" just wipes him from existence with no regard for your feelings in the matter.

Pro-abortion people know this is an injustice but they have no real response to it other than "durr hurr it wouldn't happen cuz no woman would do that for no reason"... which is retarded, because selfish, stupid vagina-equipped human beings do, in fact, exist. Somehow all women who abort their kids are presumed to be angels.

I think the pro-abortion side is so hyped up about defending women they forget, or intentionally overlook, that these situations can be terrible for men as well.

antonio_aurelio · 2021-06-04T10:54:52+00:00

Yes. The father should absolutely have a say in whether or not the baby is aborted.

It takes two to make a baby and the father will be responsible for the child's care after the baby is born. So his opinion should count for something.

7SovarN · 2021-06-04T14:48:20+00:00

I'm pro-abortion but there should be a way for men in the beginning of the pregnancy to renounce responsibility. If he has failed to do so within the allotted timeframe then he is on the hook for child support or whatever.

This of course assumes the woman is forthcoming with the information regarding her pregnancy, otherwise he's clear.

Title	Should abortion be a mutual decision?
Author	Superb-Raspberry7584
Upvotes	0
Comments	264
Date	June 3, 2021 9:05 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/nro02e/should_abortion_be_a_mutual_decision/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/should-abortion-be-a-mutual-decision.772786 https://theredarchive.com/post/772786

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