Female Feminist Danish Health Minister says that Denmark will continue to circumcisie Danish boys. Previously she was "Minister for Children, Education & Equality". Male Genital Mutilation continues, with the direct collaboration of Feminists.
"People will do it anyway" is not a good reason to legalize (or keep legal) something. People still murder, people still steal, etc.
Unfair discrimination against religions? Sure, there's a case to be made there. As far as I understand it, however, Jews have someone who is not a doctor who performs it already, it's only tradition and not religiously required by Muslims, and it's definitely not required by any other religion. With that, you can make an exception to the law saying that it is allowed to be carried out by a trained religious figure.
FGM is a cultural practice. Not an Islamic one. It is, unfortunately, performed in Islamic countries, but it's also performed elsewhere in the world and by people of varying faiths. Digging of facts would reveal that.
I disagree. They said opposition to the religious practice or FGM isn't islamophobic. But it isn't a "religious practice". By calling it such you are conflating two different things to attack the religion. Just because some muslims out there commit the horrid act of FGM does not make it a religious practice when the vast majority od Muslims and islamic scholars are against it. Hence - it is islamophobic.
I'm not trying to derail, I agree with you completely, but I'm curious whether you feel the same way about protecting children from physical assault under the euphemism of 'smacking', just like they should be protected against mutilation under the euphemism of 'circumcision'?
Most feminists who are educated on the topic are wholly against the practice, unfortunately the majority of the US population (of any sex or political persuasion) are ignorant of the realities of MGM.
I"m making an assumption that you were talking about America here, sadly we are one of the least educated on this atrocity which is why it keeps being perpetuated by parents who don't know any better. :o/
By institutional power do you mean media presence? I agree, I see that used all the time for trivial and sensationalist things instead of targeting real change around human rights, simply because the vacuous crap is what works for the bottom line, and dealing with health and public education issues isn't 'sexy' enough unless it's a new scandal.
There are many humanitarians (which includes a majority of feminists whether they use the particular label or not) out there working for the advancement of human rights who definitely don't have time to flap about on youtube about someone taking up too much room on a train, the fact that the second one is more visible to you, says a lot more about the mechanics of internet popularity rather than the actions of real people in the real world.
Feminists consistently fight against the human rights of men and boys.
That is definitionally opposed to what feminism stands for.
Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social equality of sexes.
I think you're confusing the word with something else. Maybe 'bitches', lol.
Most of the rest of what you list are demonstrated results of toxic stereotypes and roles, perpetuated by unenlightened members of both sexes.
I try to be fact based so I tried my best to find any mention at all of circumcision on now.org, I only found one mention of FGM and nothing about MGM, can you please help me out with a link? If they seriously are promoting it then they need to be educated.
Martin Luther King may not have said much on disability discrimination either, that doesn't invalidate the message he did actually deliver. You're right that there are parallels between intersex 'corrections' and male or female routine cutting, but there is a case to be made for not diluting a message by trying to include everything.
Have you asked any of those intersex-intactivists their position on cissex-intactivism? I'd be very surprised if you could find many at all who support one and not the other. Not impossible, because cognitive dissonance is very real, but we shouldn't base our opinions on outliers.
I know this is now ancient in internet time, but I've just come back from a break and am trying to catch up. I'm afraid I'm having trouble parsing your analogy, could you please tell me what the analogue is for disability discrimination in your above post? I don't see feminists claiming to be the only valid authority on male genital cutting, so it must be something else.......
I dunno, I've rarely come across feminists like this. Especially if one tries to use Bodily integrity as a point. I kinda get ragey when I see a woman bitching about FGM as if that's legal in the first world.
That's like saying "why wouldn't a mens rights activist want to see a baby girl's breasts hacked off?", the answer is "because the vast majority of people aren't sadistic assholes".
You're right, I guess I could have used 'part of a baby girl's genitals' instead of breasts, which is integrated into many societies around the world as normal....... But that also doesn't take someone being a sadist or horrible person, all it takes is terrible misinformation and cultural conditioning, to view something as normal or desirable.
Over 3 million girls every year are subjected to genital cutting against their will, and those are often in much less sanitary conditions than how MGM is typically performed. The death rate (according to people who have studied these things much more than you or I) is about 100 per 1,000,000 US male cuttings, but the rate of unnecessary increased deaths from FGM is 1-2 per 100 from increased neonatal deaths ALONE (which if course kills both baby boys and girls equally), and that's before you even start to try and calculate deaths from complications and infections, which is near impossible because of the low quality of records and cultural protection of the practice. It's certainly not insignificant though. If anyone is able to find me some hard numbers I'd welcome the data. :o)
At the end of the day, they're both terribly shitty practices and should go the way of the dodo, but claiming that a whole movement of people working for equality enjoy or advocate for the mutilation of babies is indefensible.
Anyone who hurts their own children like this needs mandatory counseling, education and maybe some community service. Anyone who promotes the practice after being informed of its complete lack of medical justification and very real harms, deserves jail. The sex of the victim is basically irrelevant to that. The religion of the offenders is even less relevant.
I know that's not how it is, but it's how it should be....... :o|
And do you believe those women are properly informed on the lack of benefits of genital cutting? There's a gigantic difference between supporting a practice because you ignorantly believe it to be beneficial, and supporting it despite knowing that it causes nothing but harm.
The majority of feminists do not support routine infant genital cutting of any kind. You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own 'facts'.
It is very easy to google up the official statements of numerous feminist organizations, bloggers, youtubers, and other groups and individuals, and in the first couple of pages of results for "do feminists support circumcision" there was not a single one which reflected your claim. The only thing anywhere close were Yahoo Answers (questions) by people voicing the same myth you have, and being rebutted by the facts.
So........ Do you care about being right, or just angry?
So you've seen individual shitty people do this, which feminist organizations have?
I myself have been a part of awareness campaigns targeting the ignorance surrounding MGM, sponsored by feminist and humanist groups. I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave it at that though, I just opened about 20 pages on the issue then realized I really need to concentrate on other things right now. I promise I'll compile a handy list of statements from feminist organizations on the subject later on, if you actually do wish to challenge this position of yours and see if it stands up to the facts. :o)
Sorry for the confusion, that second phrase was its own question, *which* feminist organizations have? You talk about the **mainstream feminist stance**, but as a part of that mainstream movement I'm associated with over a hundred people who support the abolishment of MGM, and none I know of who support its continued practice, once they've been adequately educated on the lack of medical justification and detriment to the child involved.
To be clear, there are still some of them who resist admitting that they did anything wrong by seeking it for their own children (and what's done is done, so I see no need to further damage those relationships by pressing the point), but concede that even if they don't accept the extent of the damage caused, that there's no justification for doing it to any future children absent their consent.
The mainstream feminist stance is that we should support and work towards gender equality in all things, including protection from forced medical procedures, which includes circumcision. Where you can find explicit mention of circumcision or genital cutting in any modern feminist literature or organizational statements, the vast majority are completely opposed to it in all its forms. I'm sure you could find one or two which ignorantly support it, but if you're being intellectually honest in your search you'll admit that the 9/10 you found before it (or after it) reflect what I'm saying here.
Probably going to get downvoted for this but there is quite a bit of medical research out there supporting male circumcision - when performed correctly. Cleaner/more hygienic/lowers risk of transmitting HIV and STIs, prevents foreskin constriction which affects a number of men, etc. A simple google search would reveal that information.
But anti-jewish and anti-Muslim hate is seen as OK today so the debate is reignited again.
I am Muslim. I am circumcised. I'm glad I was because I prefer it. Also, you must be unaware of the fact that when you are an infant, you lack capacity to make any form of consent, so it is automatically thw parent or guardian's duty to act.
To call it child sex abuse is ridiculous and shows you have no understanding of the practice and have closed your mind to seeing the other side. No one, especially not the parents, are touching themselves up or being sexually gratified by their son being circumcised. Use your brain.
It's been tradition and recorded since ancient egyptian times a bit over 3000 years ago. Feminists didn't come up with this one, men did... men who did not have access to daily showers or even soap for the most part. All it took was one or two of those fuckers getting their dicks infected and it scared the shit out of all the other males to circumcise their kids.. it made perfect sense and it's still helpful if you in less-than-dealing hygenic conditions.
So yeh... feminists didn't come up with this shit.. neither did the jews or libtards.. it's just something that works for thousands of years to help men survive and reproduce. Today, it is no longer necessary, although still lowers infection rates very slightly. Is it enough to allow parents to perform it on their kids? Yes, I think so. As adults, their reproductive abilities and ejaculatory abilities are not affected. will it feel as good? I don't know.. i'm cut and it doesnt keep me from dropping loads regularly and it feels fkin great :D
because breasts are necessary for nursing... its hard to go around that... although now you've got me wondering if any parents have had their daughters have masectomies over high-risk breast cancer dna tests.. im sure its happened
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"People will do it anyway" is not a good reason to legalize (or keep legal) something. People still murder, people still steal, etc.
Unfair discrimination against religions? Sure, there's a case to be made there. As far as I understand it, however, Jews have someone who is not a doctor who performs it already, it's only tradition and not religiously required by Muslims, and it's definitely not required by any other religion. With that, you can make an exception to the law saying that it is allowed to be carried out by a trained religious figure.
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She cannot make that decision by herself.
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How exactly is she using it? No major party backs banning circumcision.
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Yes I agree. I just don't think feminism is the reason they aren't backing it.
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Is there a list of these US politicians we can post and share to avoid voting for them in the future?
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FGM is a cultural practice. Not an Islamic one. It is, unfortunately, performed in Islamic countries, but it's also performed elsewhere in the world and by people of varying faiths. Digging of facts would reveal that.
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I disagree. They said opposition to the religious practice or FGM isn't islamophobic. But it isn't a "religious practice". By calling it such you are conflating two different things to attack the religion. Just because some muslims out there commit the horrid act of FGM does not make it a religious practice when the vast majority od Muslims and islamic scholars are against it. Hence - it is islamophobic.
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I'm not trying to derail, I agree with you completely, but I'm curious whether you feel the same way about protecting children from physical assault under the euphemism of 'smacking', just like they should be protected against mutilation under the euphemism of 'circumcision'?
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Most feminists who are educated on the topic are wholly against the practice, unfortunately the majority of the US population (of any sex or political persuasion) are ignorant of the realities of MGM.
I"m making an assumption that you were talking about America here, sadly we are one of the least educated on this atrocity which is why it keeps being perpetuated by parents who don't know any better. :o/
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By institutional power do you mean media presence? I agree, I see that used all the time for trivial and sensationalist things instead of targeting real change around human rights, simply because the vacuous crap is what works for the bottom line, and dealing with health and public education issues isn't 'sexy' enough unless it's a new scandal.
There are many humanitarians (which includes a majority of feminists whether they use the particular label or not) out there working for the advancement of human rights who definitely don't have time to flap about on youtube about someone taking up too much room on a train, the fact that the second one is more visible to you, says a lot more about the mechanics of internet popularity rather than the actions of real people in the real world.
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That is definitionally opposed to what feminism stands for.
I think you're confusing the word with something else. Maybe 'bitches', lol.
Most of the rest of what you list are demonstrated results of toxic stereotypes and roles, perpetuated by unenlightened members of both sexes.
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I try to be fact based so I tried my best to find any mention at all of circumcision on now.org, I only found one mention of FGM and nothing about MGM, can you please help me out with a link? If they seriously are promoting it then they need to be educated.
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Martin Luther King may not have said much on disability discrimination either, that doesn't invalidate the message he did actually deliver. You're right that there are parallels between intersex 'corrections' and male or female routine cutting, but there is a case to be made for not diluting a message by trying to include everything.
Have you asked any of those intersex-intactivists their position on cissex-intactivism? I'd be very surprised if you could find many at all who support one and not the other. Not impossible, because cognitive dissonance is very real, but we shouldn't base our opinions on outliers.
Bea
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I know this is now ancient in internet time, but I've just come back from a break and am trying to catch up. I'm afraid I'm having trouble parsing your analogy, could you please tell me what the analogue is for disability discrimination in your above post? I don't see feminists claiming to be the only valid authority on male genital cutting, so it must be something else.......
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I dunno, I've rarely come across feminists like this. Especially if one tries to use Bodily integrity as a point. I kinda get ragey when I see a woman bitching about FGM as if that's legal in the first world.
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What a stupid and sad comment.
That's like saying "why wouldn't a mens rights activist want to see a baby girl's breasts hacked off?", the answer is "because the vast majority of people aren't sadistic assholes".
Bea
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You're right, I guess I could have used 'part of a baby girl's genitals' instead of breasts, which is integrated into many societies around the world as normal....... But that also doesn't take someone being a sadist or horrible person, all it takes is terrible misinformation and cultural conditioning, to view something as normal or desirable.
Over 3 million girls every year are subjected to genital cutting against their will, and those are often in much less sanitary conditions than how MGM is typically performed. The death rate (according to people who have studied these things much more than you or I) is about 100 per 1,000,000 US male cuttings, but the rate of unnecessary increased deaths from FGM is 1-2 per 100 from increased neonatal deaths ALONE (which if course kills both baby boys and girls equally), and that's before you even start to try and calculate deaths from complications and infections, which is near impossible because of the low quality of records and cultural protection of the practice. It's certainly not insignificant though. If anyone is able to find me some hard numbers I'd welcome the data. :o)
At the end of the day, they're both terribly shitty practices and should go the way of the dodo, but claiming that a whole movement of people working for equality enjoy or advocate for the mutilation of babies is indefensible.
Bea
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Or, you are just ridiculously stupid.
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Anyone who hurts their own children like this needs mandatory counseling, education and maybe some community service. Anyone who promotes the practice after being informed of its complete lack of medical justification and very real harms, deserves jail. The sex of the victim is basically irrelevant to that. The religion of the offenders is even less relevant.
I know that's not how it is, but it's how it should be....... :o|
Bea
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The article doesn't mention feminism at all
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Not in Europe. Bring uncircumcised is the norm here. Circumcised dicks are seen as weird.
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What...... is wrong with you??
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And do you believe those women are properly informed on the lack of benefits of genital cutting? There's a gigantic difference between supporting a practice because you ignorantly believe it to be beneficial, and supporting it despite knowing that it causes nothing but harm.
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The majority of feminists do not support routine infant genital cutting of any kind. You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own 'facts'.
It is very easy to google up the official statements of numerous feminist organizations, bloggers, youtubers, and other groups and individuals, and in the first couple of pages of results for "do feminists support circumcision" there was not a single one which reflected your claim. The only thing anywhere close were Yahoo Answers (questions) by people voicing the same myth you have, and being rebutted by the facts.
So........ Do you care about being right, or just angry?
Bea
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So you've seen individual shitty people do this, which feminist organizations have?
I myself have been a part of awareness campaigns targeting the ignorance surrounding MGM, sponsored by feminist and humanist groups. I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave it at that though, I just opened about 20 pages on the issue then realized I really need to concentrate on other things right now. I promise I'll compile a handy list of statements from feminist organizations on the subject later on, if you actually do wish to challenge this position of yours and see if it stands up to the facts. :o)
Bea
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Sorry for the confusion, that second phrase was its own question, *which* feminist organizations have? You talk about the **mainstream feminist stance**, but as a part of that mainstream movement I'm associated with over a hundred people who support the abolishment of MGM, and none I know of who support its continued practice, once they've been adequately educated on the lack of medical justification and detriment to the child involved.
To be clear, there are still some of them who resist admitting that they did anything wrong by seeking it for their own children (and what's done is done, so I see no need to further damage those relationships by pressing the point), but concede that even if they don't accept the extent of the damage caused, that there's no justification for doing it to any future children absent their consent.
The mainstream feminist stance is that we should support and work towards gender equality in all things, including protection from forced medical procedures, which includes circumcision. Where you can find explicit mention of circumcision or genital cutting in any modern feminist literature or organizational statements, the vast majority are completely opposed to it in all its forms. I'm sure you could find one or two which ignorantly support it, but if you're being intellectually honest in your search you'll admit that the 9/10 you found before it (or after it) reflect what I'm saying here.
Bea
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Probably going to get downvoted for this but there is quite a bit of medical research out there supporting male circumcision - when performed correctly. Cleaner/more hygienic/lowers risk of transmitting HIV and STIs, prevents foreskin constriction which affects a number of men, etc. A simple google search would reveal that information.
But anti-jewish and anti-Muslim hate is seen as OK today so the debate is reignited again.
[–]Consilio_et_Animis[S] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]yas_30001 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I am Muslim. I am circumcised. I'm glad I was because I prefer it. Also, you must be unaware of the fact that when you are an infant, you lack capacity to make any form of consent, so it is automatically thw parent or guardian's duty to act.
To call it child sex abuse is ridiculous and shows you have no understanding of the practice and have closed your mind to seeing the other side. No one, especially not the parents, are touching themselves up or being sexually gratified by their son being circumcised. Use your brain.
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It's a commandment in Judaism so to be anti circumcision is to be anti-semitic.
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It's been tradition and recorded since ancient egyptian times a bit over 3000 years ago. Feminists didn't come up with this one, men did... men who did not have access to daily showers or even soap for the most part. All it took was one or two of those fuckers getting their dicks infected and it scared the shit out of all the other males to circumcise their kids.. it made perfect sense and it's still helpful if you in less-than-dealing hygenic conditions.
So yeh... feminists didn't come up with this shit.. neither did the jews or libtards.. it's just something that works for thousands of years to help men survive and reproduce. Today, it is no longer necessary, although still lowers infection rates very slightly. Is it enough to allow parents to perform it on their kids? Yes, I think so. As adults, their reproductive abilities and ejaculatory abilities are not affected. will it feel as good? I don't know.. i'm cut and it doesnt keep me from dropping loads regularly and it feels fkin great :D
[–]prodiver 20 points21 points22 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[+]HierEncore1 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
because breasts are necessary for nursing... its hard to go around that... although now you've got me wondering if any parents have had their daughters have masectomies over high-risk breast cancer dna tests.. im sure its happened
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