Roe v Wade

MRA_TitleIX · 2022-05-03T12:40:03+00:00

This is fucked.

States are going to have a patchwork of legality. Only the poor won't be able to get abortions. This is another form of class warfare and will disproportionately impact poor people.

Crime will go back up again as well; roe v wade is directly responsible for massive drops in crime. The prison industry will get more bodies in 18 years.

It will be used as an excuse to give police more tanks as crime goes up. The war on drugs will ratchet up again. A lot of communities are going to be ripped apart by the fallout over the next two decades.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-05-03T10:50:44+00:00

Agreed. I also think this will be used to blame men in general again. Even so, we will be asked to support women's rights, without reciprocity. This could get ugly.

Edit: And just in case some people want to misrepresent what I said: we are firmly pro women's rights, including the freedom to choose abortion. But we also support legal parental surrender a.k.a. "paper abortion". Equal support for both would go a long way.

Enzi42 · 2022-05-03T11:01:10+00:00

I think it will have a detrimental effect, full stop. Lack of abortion rights means men who accidentally impregnate that one night stand or who have made a decision with their partner to abstain from procreation will now find themselves in an inescapable trap.

Not that we had much in terms if reproductive rights in the first place, but at the least the man could “lean” on the woman in this situation by hoping she would go through with a termination

Finally it worsens an already difficult relationship with women’s movements. Many have a problem with men’s advocacy and have firmly put themselves on the opposing side and this will just worsen things. I’ve already seen posts on Reddit wailing about this and blaming men and as is typical, demanding we “step up” to help them.

I would like to see more men and women working together and realizing a lot of our problems d can be solved through cooperation rather than blame and feeding the cycle of hatred (and the recent Depp vs Heard trial has generated a lot of this).

But I sense more of this nastiness on its way so I’m not holding my breath for any continuing good will.

But if that’s what they want then I guess they’re free to bring it. It’s a shame though.

Oncefa2 · 2022-05-03T12:42:48+00:00

It makes it a lot harder to argue for choice for men.

I doubt it will lead to a large ban in abortions because the states still control that. Even Texas still kept it at 6 weeks. Which obviously isn't enough time for everyone but it proves there's no political will to ban it outright.

However like you said people will exaggerate this to no end.

On the other hand, abortion proponentes might adopt different legal strategies for women that may have more relevance for men. Roe v. Wade is based on a relatively weak legal argument that many scholars have feared would be overturned eventually. However there are other legal arguments that are much stronger and many of those are gender neutral. For example the consent model of pregnancy would give men a very straightforward argument for paternal surrender if it were ever pushed through.

https://strathprints.strath.ac.uk/33179/

We've never developed this legal strategy because it gives men a right to choose, and previous women's advocates have tried to avoid that.

galacticdude7 · 2022-05-03T13:59:33+00:00

yeah, my biggest pet peeve surrounding the justifiable rage over the imminent overturning of Roe v Wade is that feminists are misplacing the blame over why this is happening on Men and not on Evangelical Christians. According to Pew 56% of Men agree that Abortion should be legal in all or most cases and that the only group that really has a strong opposition to Abortion are White Evangelical Christians of which 77% believe Abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. This is not a case of men oppressing women, this is a case of Evangelical Christians oppressing women.

And the ruling itself is especially concerning as an assault on anyone's rights is an assault on everyone's rights. If women don't have the bodily autonomy to decide for themselves whether or not to give birth, what's stopping the government from passing a law preventing men from getting a vasectomy? Or passing a law outlawing the sale of condoms or other methods of birth control? And it kills any chance of my desire to see an equivalent right for men to abortion by signing away parental rights and obligations should they choose to.

Plus the lack of an abortion rights makes sex a lot more dangerous to engage in and I feel that in a post Roe Repeal world people are going to be a lot less willing to have sex than they are now, lest they ruin their lives with an accidental pregnancy, and if there is one thing this world doesn't need less of, it's sex.

The overturning of Roe and Casey is going to be a dark day for America, and we should do everything that we can to get abortion rights back for everyone's sake.

DamonLindelof1014 · 2022-05-03T13:11:27+00:00

This is horrible, we already don't have nearly enough bodily autonomy as a country as we all here fight against MGM and now abortion is not legal? We are going in the wrong direction, we need more autonomy, not less

ripyourlungsdave · 2022-05-03T14:16:55+00:00

There is no world where this is good for anybody but the people in power. Rich people getting into a shitty situation will still be able to get abortions whenever they want. And they will continue to do so.

This isn’t about anything other than trying to force poor people into very specific roles so that they don’t have the time or energy to fight against the rich.

Edit: It’s the same reason men are forced to work 60 hour weeks, get stuck in prison or are forced to pay child support for a kid they never wanted. Because if you have time and money, you might use that to better society. Or get some power yourself. And they can’t have that. Their money depends on hundreds of millions of people living in abject poverty and cancer-causing filth.

And more than anything, considering there’s no way in hell any of these SCOTUS folks are doing this for the moral of it, it’s one more tactic to pit us against each other while not dealing with the source of our problems. Which is just nihilistic, violent greed. Plain and simple.

Deadlocked02 · 2022-05-03T13:43:47+00:00

To be honest, I think it’s quite sad how we’re aware that men’s rights are held hostage. Meaning it’s only ok to even bring male issues to the debate in a society that is up to date with female rights. The implication of that is: male rights are not as important and pressing as female rights, that both subjects are mutually exclusive, since one must take precedence over the other.

This is all very tiresome. And I don’t mean to derail or make the whole thing solely about men’s right when it’s obvious more about women’s rights, but deep down we know things like that are always weaponized to tell that men’s rights activists should take a step back.

But even so, if you look at much more stable countries that do give women most or all legal rights feminism advocates for (including abortion), there’s still the claim that the societal issues faced by women should take precedence in the gender discussion and that men’s rights activists should take a step back, even when they’re not merely advocating to bring awareness to societal issues, but also institutional ones like the genital mutilation of boys.

They weaponize things like this against men’s rights advocates but they also fight to keep the status quo and their monopoly on gender issues even when they have their way. You’re damned either way.

Algoresball · 2022-05-03T15:41:32+00:00

I'm in favor if the right to an abortion both paper and physical. This ruling is a massive step in the wrong direction.

Son_of_Sophroniscus · 2022-05-03T12:06:23+00:00

This will certainly be used as political ammunition by both sides of the debate. My understanding is the issue will become a state decision, so I'm bracing for debates and political mudslinging in states that have not already legislated on this issue.

And yes, we will certain be the target of women's rights activists who paint this as old white men taking rights away from minority women. Of course that would ignore all the pro-life women who support this decision, but no one cares if criticisms and protests are accurate as long as they are effective.

dapperKillerWhale · 2022-05-03T14:16:33+00:00

The media will tell women to blame Bernie bros and white men. Even though half of women are anti-abortion and Biden is president.

Feminists will want to shut down men's rights discussions even more than before. Inter-gender solidarity curbed.

TitanicPat · 2022-05-03T12:50:26+00:00

It will be bad. The mrm will be treated like patriarchal oppressors. The very worst arguments and takes will be clipped and shared from every feminist roof top. Our trolls will switch, on a dime, from asking "But what has the MRM actually accomplished?" to shouting "You and your supreme court buddies did this to us!!"

But asking will this be good or bad for us, is like wondering what will set off an abusive partner - Everything Does! Save your best behavior for people who appreciate it.

dr_pepper02 · 2022-05-03T22:34:01+00:00

I doubt it’ll affect men much because men basically have no say in how their children are raised.

Women can knowingly lie about the paternity of their child and if caught with no consequences.

A woman can abort, put up for adoption or even abandon their child regardless of whether the man wants the child or not.

Men get charged child support for donating sperm, or even attempting to be a father figure.

CAVFIFTEEN · 2022-05-03T12:32:18+00:00

Tough to say. Quite honestly I’m most concerned how this will affect dating culture, the ability and willingness for people to have casual sex, etc. I’m seriously looking into getting a vasectomy and recommend any men that don’t want children do the same. It seems I may have a tough time getting a doctor to do it in my state (FL) but I at least have to try. Never thought it was right for this stuff to be all on the woman anyway. And now it looks like their choice is being removed entirely. Disgusting.

Talik1978 · 2022-05-03T14:22:05+00:00

First, this is a legitimate highly important issue that is going to greatly impact women. It is going to draw a ton of attention and opposition, as it should.

That is going to take up a lot of advocacy bandwidth.

This is going to hinder many movements for reform and rights, simply by virtue of being something completely fucked up that really needs to be focused and corrected.

WeEatBabies · 2022-05-03T12:56:16+00:00

Ho boy, I meant to vote that Roe V Wade has a beneficial effect on society.

And I suspect I'm not alone, ... These results are prolly screwed!

Vandechoz · 2022-05-03T14:11:32+00:00

optimistically, this could give 50 different chances for men's advocates to make themselves known as egalitarians when it comes to abortion law

realistically, I don't know if any one state has enough of a men's movement to have any impact whatsoever; there's a reason it's almost entirely online

BootyliciousURD · 2022-05-03T17:56:34+00:00

This outcome is tragic and will have devastating consequences for so many people. But there is a silver lining in that it highlights the need for a strong, explicit guarantee to the right to bodily autonomy and integrity. I'm honestly surprised that Roe v Wade stuck around for so long given its flimsy constitutional justification.

If we could pass a constitutional amendment that enshrines into law the right to bodily autonomy and integrity, we could protect abortion rights, decriminalize drug use, abolish forced genital cutting, and so much more.

Away-Writer8839 · 2022-05-03T21:09:30+00:00

It will be detrimental to men because when women cant have abortions it’s not just about women. EVERYBODY loses. A lot of men will be forced into parenthood too. They will not have to suffer the life threatening problems of labor, but many will be forced, become dads etc also against their will.

hiddeninthewillow · 2022-05-03T15:12:49+00:00

Some other folks have mentioned this as well but as a person who’s not a man, I hope groups like this and other non-prolife dominated mrm spaces will take this chance to solidify that we do support abortion rights; I think the conservative/pretty heavily misogynistic MRA types have skewed the conversation so far that a lot of people on the left hear MRA and immediately think bigot rather than “someone who supports men’s rights”. The people striking down roe are the same ones who are keeping men down in society; we are stronger together rather than apart.

DekajaSukunda · 2022-05-03T16:35:25+00:00

I'm very much pro-choice but tbh I've read some of the conservative criticisms conservatives make of Roe v. Wade and I see a lot of merit in them. I generally agree with them that was a case of judicial activism and that their reasoning was pretty weak. I was quite shocked to find out the ammendment that supposedly gives American women the right to abortion is... the one about due process?

Just to be clear I think women should have a right to abortion, and I think that those forced pregnancies play a huge role in perpetuating the cycle of poverty and increasing crime. But that's just my opinion - my moral opinion. The Constitution is the Constitution, and I'm not convinced a constitutional right to abort is there anywhere.

But I'm not American and I'm sure there must be a lot of technicalities and nuances I'm missing.

LeftyLucario · 2022-05-03T18:00:49+00:00

I am not particularly sure how this would affect men’s rights in a positive or negative way, but this is a statement of ignorance rather than an actual argument.

As for women, I would say that it is a net negative. Sure, theoretically people could just NOT have sex, but everyone and their mother knows people are going to do the funky chicken anyway.

GodBirb · 2022-05-03T20:29:38+00:00

Bad for us, but worse for the women and society. All round negatives just to please some old religious folk…

ABCDEFUCKINGKILLME · 2022-05-03T22:14:15+00:00

Yes. It also seems they are taking away the gay rights.

0zi1 · 2022-05-04T03:51:53+00:00

If any non-americannis reading this please don't vote on something you don't know about, i didn't click it but some people have tendency to select any option in order to see the poll numbers.

UnHope20 · 2022-05-04T10:44:54+00:00

EVERYTHING will have a negative effect on the movement.

took-a-load · 2022-05-04T18:25:55+00:00

Men are definitely not immune, they're going to crack down on child support.

International_Crew89 · 2022-05-05T01:09:56+00:00

Hell, I don't even live in the states (Canadian), and I'm hearing plenty of grumbling from rad fems here that they think thier abortion options are about to disappear. FYI, all mainstream politicians and the supreme court have confirmed abortions aren't up for debate in our country.

Is_This_Safe_To_Eat · 2022-05-03T20:22:33+00:00

I mean yeah it will be detrimental, but I feel like this moment is probably as good as any to temporarily put a hold on our pet issues and deal with the fact that our goddamn house is on fire metaphorically speaking.

The fascists aren’t going to stop at abortion. If you’ve read the memo, Alito decries the rulings that legalized gay marriage as well as ended sodomy laws. They’re going to be going after contraception, gay marriage, LGBTQ+ rights, and a full out assault on bodily autonomy of anyone who isn’t a straight white wealthy Christian. This will be the beginning of a truly fascist onslaught against the working class and minorities.

This is a 5 alarm fire. It’s time to get all hands on deck, and go protest alongside people you may not see eye to eye with. No need for short sighted myopic “but what about our movement” stuff right now. Because this shit will be bad for us too.

Title	Roe v Wade
Author	NimishApte
Upvotes	40
Comments	94
Date	May 3, 2022 10:35 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/uhd62s/roe_v_wade/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/roe-v-wade.1115757 https://theredarchive.com/post/1115757

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