X-Post from r/Atheism

853211 · 2012-07-16T21:16:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

gingerkid1234 · 2012-07-16T22:42:37+00:00

Why exactly was this in /r/atheism?

Hach8 · 2012-07-16T23:05:06+00:00

The thing I don't like about this most of all (and it took me a little while to realize it today) is that these types of statements - "Teach our boys to not rape" - makes the default state of being for men that of a rapist.

As if the absence of someone teaching boys that rape is wrong means they will almost certainly grow up to be rapists. Treating men as if they are default rapists is not good for our culture.

2012-07-16T23:24:30+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Legolihkan · 2012-07-16T23:15:50+00:00

If i had a nickel for every time my sons raped my daughters... I'd be broke.

Phuzzums · 2012-07-17T04:10:10+00:00

Why does it have to be about teaching the girls to suspect and live their life in fear of being raped at any second and teach the boys that they are dirty little monsters if they even have a sexual thought about a girl?

The damage of that kind of teaching is two-fold:

It makes girls paranoid, always looking over their shoulder, never trusting their peers. That's some stressful shit, it makes them angry at society and potentially makes them see all men as nothing but monsters.
It gives boys insanely mixed messages about their sexuality to the point where they might think that just the fact that they find girls attractive makes them a bad person. The compounded by the lack of an outlet to express their feelings and emotions, they either give up trying to stop themselves and accept themselves as bad and go on to sate their desires in inappropriate ways by invading girls personal space or they just completely break down into depression and self-loathing which may lead to suicide.

A better way is to teach boys more about personal boundaries and that it isn't appropriate to invade others' personal space. It is perfectly fine for boys to find girls sexually attractive and arousing, it's normal and natural. It doesn't hurt the girl, the harm comes when the boy inappropriately invades her personal space.

At the same time the trend of teaching girls that all men are potential rapists needs to change as well. People who invade a girls personal space are potential rapists. Teach them that they have a right to their personal space, that if anyone decides to force their way in to tell them to get away. I think some girls would also benefit a lot from the same teaching of personal boundaries as well. I see a lot of girls who think that because society doesn't see them as rapists that they are allowed to freely invade others' personal space. They don't have that right, it is just as inappropriate for a girl to do it as a boy.

garthunk · 2012-07-16T22:42:50+00:00

before you all get your boxers in a twist, you should actually check out the incident that led to this response: http://zeenews.india.com/news/assam/guwahati-girl-molestation-it-was-like-gang-rape-says-reporter_787411.html

this isn't a case of some stupid naive girl going to a bad part of town. this is a case of a 17/20 yr old girl (some sources claim 17, others 20) going out to have some fun with friends, then being molested in a public, well-trafficked street, without anyone doing shit to stop it until the police showed up nearly 30 minutes after it started.

no one is trying to blame men or paint us as rape-machines. they are merely trying to draw attention to the fact that rape is treated as the victim's fault in their country.

and one other thing, go ahead and cruise on over to the r/atheism post and read through some of their responses. people are more than ready to jump on the "blame the victim" bandwagon by talking as if this happened in some slum. it didn't. this happened in a well-trafficked, highly visible area of town.

lalit008 · 2012-07-16T22:10:07+00:00

Teach both... imo

papasuckle55 · 2012-07-17T03:29:05+00:00

what does this have to do with Atheism?

Irrel_M · 2012-07-16T22:27:41+00:00

Logic would apply the same to both genders.

But no, that's just silly!

duglock · 2012-07-16T21:04:55+00:00

Before even clicking I knew this would have something to do with the stars. r/atheism is so fucking predictable.

2012-07-16T22:27:30+00:00

Why would I pay attention to a message labeling me as a rapist when i'm not a criminal? It makes me instantly ignore any meaning behind this once I get accused of a crime I have never committed.

2012-07-17T01:35:21+00:00

So women aren't responsible for their own well being, but men are responsible for the actions of all male criminals? How much collective blame is going to be shifted onto men before everyone realizes this is ridiculous?

Statements like "teach men not to rape" are fucking stupid, because it implies that society doesn't already do that. Not only do we do that by telling ~~everyone~~ men how wrong it is to rape (because only men can rape after all, right?), but we also do it by THROWING RAPISTS IN JAIL. These people who say this stuff are so delusional and arrogant that they actually think that their shaming tactics are a greater deterrent for crime than prison time, which is moronic.

Criminals can't be reasoned with. Telling them not to rape won't do anything more than them knowing that rapists go to jail. Normal, rational people however can be reasoned with, which is why we tell them ways they can protect themselves. Women who can't take that advice obviously aren't rational people, yet somehow they expect all criminals to be.

Dranosh · 2012-07-16T22:42:38+00:00

Is it me or was I the only male that was ever taught to save sex for marriage, which I'm doing, and that I should never be out at night like 2am walking alone?

Seriously, do parents not teach their kids this shit anymore? I'm debating on whether it's worth raising kids in this world, too many idiots are having sex, you know why I know they're idiots? Because they're the ones not using birth control.

thefieldsofdawn · 2012-07-16T22:29:07+00:00

I don't have any problem with it, but I think that we need to teach both sexes about street smarts and respect to others. This isn't attacking all men, at least in my eyes, so please don't get your jimmies in a ruffle

tjbdef · 2012-07-16T21:49:22+00:00

just about to post this. pissed me off when I saw it.

2012-07-17T00:12:33+00:00

Yet another bullshit violation of the is-ought distinction.

My fiancee and I were debating this yesterday, and I came to a realization. See, I get cat called all the time, usually from a moving car. Often, it's just screaming and hollering, but a month ago, I was stopped while riding by bike from a woman in her 40s in her car. The conversation went like this:

Her: "Excuse me, could you help me out?"

Me: "Uh, sure. What can I do for you?"

"Could you give me directions?"

"Probably. Where are you looking to go?"

"A parking lot somewhere around here, close, so you could come and fuck me."

I then said that I was engaged and went on my way biking. The woman then followed me for three more blocks, the final stop flashing me her tits and pressing them against the glass.

Were I the horny little 19 year old I once was, I would have jumped on that in a heart beat. Me as an adult didn't want to deal with crazy, however, so I sped up and zig-zagged into some side streets.

Now, the thought of "Well, I could get stabbed or have my kidney stolen" was there, but the likelihood of it happening was so miniscule in my head that it was a non-issue.

Flip the genders, however, and I guarantee most women would have thought about calling the cops, terrified. In part, sure, maybe strange men are more apt to be dangerous, but I don't think that's the primary reason: it's because, as a guy, you deal with the threat of being assaulted constantly, and no one is going to protect you.

This is the key difference to all this stranger danger nonsense. Men deal with the threat of being murdered, robbed, attacked in such a high number of situations compared to women, and we're expected to deal with it all on your own, and most do, so the implicit 'threat' of women catcalling seems so miniscule in comparison to what is usually par for the course that it doesn't even register as anything worse than annoying for most.

hardwarequestions · 2012-07-16T23:59:47+00:00

WTF was this doing in r/atheism?

Roddy0608 · 2012-07-16T23:59:48+00:00

Well, until we do actually teach every single boy "better" (which may not even be a realistic goal), we should teach girls to be careful.

2012-07-17T02:27:39+00:00

I upvoted because rape is bad...

But let's be real here, I hate rape for the same reason I hate every other crime. People don't deserve that committed against them. However, just telling people to stop crime, rape or otherwise, will not alone stop crime. There are (rightly so) severe prison sentences for rape. The mention of a rape in real life causes my muscles to tense and for me to worry about all of my female loved ones. I think it's generally accepted that rape is bad.

I teach a women's self-defense course. Am I a rape supported for acknowledging that rape is an unfortunate reality of life and I should therefore be hated because I teach women how to teach potential rapists a lesson? Should I instead spend my time that I would spend teaching that class to go around reminding guys to not rape?

Anyone?

Everseer · 2012-07-17T04:33:24+00:00

Should I teach my son not to walk off tall buildings or stick his dick in the garbage disposal? No, because that shit is common sense and implying men need to be taught not to rape women is sexist.

2012-07-17T14:28:53+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ttnorac · 2012-07-17T18:51:46+00:00

So, I guess rape is the only thing that is dangrous about being alone at night.

Phew....I don't have to worry about robbery, murder, drunk drivers, etc. any more!

Yillpv · 2012-07-17T18:51:52+00:00

Near my college, there has been quite a string of thefts. The perpetrator? a woman and a couple of men. It goes both ways. EQUALITY applies to all sexes, all ages, all races, all religions, not just some.

2012-07-17T19:52:46+00:00

The picture has also spread in this Facebook page.

Nefilim777 · 2012-07-17T21:00:35+00:00

I hate the presumption that men will rape/maim/kill unless taught to do so...

XxDailyDreamxX · 2012-07-20T19:39:25+00:00

In my eyes, both genders should be taught better. They should know to defend themselves against threats, but they should also be taught morals.

hardwarequestions · 2012-07-16T21:43:18+00:00

here's the /atheism thread.

good starting points...

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/wnhk2/even_in_a_religious_country_like_india_rape_is/c5ev2zp

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/wnhk2/even_in_a_religious_country_like_india_rape_is/c5evc8b

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/wnhk2/even_in_a_religious_country_like_india_rape_is/c5evl1h

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/wnhk2/even_in_a_religious_country_like_india_rape_is/c5evowc

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/wnhk2/even_in_a_religious_country_like_india_rape_is/c5exk0z

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/wnhk2/even_in_a_religious_country_like_india_rape_is/c5ew4l0

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/wnhk2/even_in_a_religious_country_like_india_rape_is/c5ew61h

oh hell, anything by /u/JasonMacker, /u/JayStrang, or /u/ManiacDan

gwolf100 · 2012-07-16T22:45:51+00:00

Little update: Got a special mention on SRS for my comment underneath this post on /r/atheism

AgentVanillaGorilla · 2012-07-17T04:33:27+00:00

Are you guys kidding me? This is about a terrible part of India. In India and the Middle East, there are a lot more problems like this than in America or Europe. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Imissyourgirlfriend2 · 2012-07-16T23:38:12+00:00

Just watched a thing on Nat Geo about teen sex. There was a segment about "purity balls" in the south through Evangelical churches. It was the young girls pledging their purity (virginity) to their fathers and God. At first I thought, "Well innit that cute...BUT IT'S WRONG!!!" I thought fair is fair, equal is equal, why make only the girls promise to remain abstinent and let the boys go willy nilly? Teach purity/responsibility to BOTH genders. Our society teaches "Don't get raped" when it should teach "Don't rape".

2012-07-16T23:37:03+00:00

Not interested in going out at all.

2012-07-17T01:24:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

persianpimp · 2012-07-16T23:25:14+00:00

Was going to post this! :)

2012-07-17T01:41:57+00:00

What about cougars, gay rapists and large scary bigfoot-people?

Title	X-Post from r/Atheism
Author	gwolf100
Upvotes	267
Comments	202
Date	July 16, 2012 8:27 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wnuhd/xpost_from_ratheism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/x-post-from-ratheism.1017801 https://theredarchive.com/post/1017801

Comments