The societal hostility towards "failed" men will make things worse for everyone if not addressed

wtknight · 2025-12-05T21:25:01+00:00

Removed. Discussion posts must be questions asked from a neutral point of view.

TheOneWhoThinketh · 2025-12-05T19:46:43+00:00

Historically, this has always been the case for both men and women. Women just happen to be better at navigating it, and more willing to conform to social standards and censor their own opinions.

You cannot force people to care about things they just don't care about. Even where the issue of social expectations is brought up, most people concerned about "social causes" are more often concerned about virtue signaling and view society as an abstraction they leverage to advantage themselves. They are not actually concerned with solving problems, just that "somebody" should do "something". Of course, that somebody is never them and that something is not their responsibility to understand.

The solution is to look inwards for your own standards and adhere to those, and find individuals who do the same. Having a moral compass not dependent on society's abstractions will point you in the right direction, but clinging to social expectations will only make you a forever victim. Ultimately, you have to build a community of individuals that share your own values, or adopt the values of the external society at large.

My_House_on_Mars · 2025-12-05T19:43:15+00:00

I don't think lonely men who mind their own business face any hostility.

Unless by "hostility" you mean being sexually ignored. Which isn't hostility, by definition.

The problem is men who are sexually frustrated and take it out on women. They are frustrated, get hostile and receive hostility back. At this point I believe that's what they are looking for, a negative response to confirm their feelings. That's why bluepill people drives them crazy.

fucksiclepizza · 2025-12-05T19:42:22+00:00

Whats your suggested solution here? How do you want this addressed?

Lift_and_Lurk · 2025-12-05T19:27:44+00:00

The fact of the matter is: there is not a hostility. There is a “victim mentality” Manosphere spaces seem to foster. But the real truth of the matter is more blunt-

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Tylikcat · 2025-12-05T19:48:09+00:00

A lot of these standards are imposed more by men than by women. The boundaries of masculinity are policed hard.

I think men can learn a lot from the women's movement. I mean, I am by no means a stereotypical woman. And while this involved a fair bit of fighting, or swimming against the current, at the same time there had been women's movements active long before I was born, and many women who broke ground long before I came along. And communities of women who supported and helped each other.

This isn't me saying that we don't have anything for you. I am supportive of guys who are working to find different ways to be men, and presenting those as valid options. (Hell, most of the men in my social communities are that to greater or lesser extents.) But this is something men are going to have to lead for themselves, just the way the women's movement was driven by women.

...and thinking about "failed" men, when I look at most of the men in my communities who have deviated from traditional masculine roles in whatever sense, most of them are well educated and doing well professionally. It's easier to claw out more room for yourself when you already have some capitol, whether literal or social.

No_Teacher_3313 · 2025-12-05T19:49:21+00:00

I work in accounting. Not a focus on looking or acting a certain way and EVERYONE asks for help. It’s a field where people generally don’t pretend to know things when they don’t, easily say that they don’t know, and are always conferring with others on how to do things. We get along great. There is huge mutual respect. No one is ostracized. Lots of conversation and banter in the office. Everyone is welcome at happy hour.

I have no idea how you live that things are so different.

lesliecarbone · 2025-12-05T20:02:25+00:00

INFO: Can you be more specific? Who are these men? What specific "standards" are they failing to meet? Why? How are they being "ignored and pushed away by the society"? Thank you.

torytho · 2025-12-05T20:31:01+00:00

Why not just go to therapy? You think you're the only person dealing with shit? I was cutting myself, I got my ass to therapy, and now I'm a healed person who is non-toxic and not effected by the problems of the world, and you can be too.

ChewedMyWayOutOfThat · 2025-12-05T21:05:39+00:00

increasing hostility towards men in our current society.

I don't think it's increasing. I'd say that men are finally getting the comeuppance they deserve for the millennia of oppression for which they were responsible for and benefitted from.

It's the first time women have had to a chance to air their grievances through the internet. If your grandfather beat the shit out of your grandmother, or come home, sat on the couch and did no cleaning or childcare, she couldn't do anything about it. She had to sit still and take it. But her granddaughter could put this guy on blast on Tiktok, spot the warning signs of abuse, get a divorce, get her own job and avoid relationships with men altogether.

But when men are accustomed to privilege, equality is perceived as oppression. Patriarchy is DEI for men.

restrict your emotions

It's men calling other men pussies, not women. If women won't provide any social support, then why don't men just turn to other men?

never ask for help

Men ask for help all the time from women. Can you clean the house for me? Can you watch the kids for me? Can you make this medical appointment for me? Can you plan the Christmas party and do all the cooking and cleaning for me? Can you care for my aging parents for me?

The problem is that men don't reciprocate. When men get sick, there is a 4% chance her husband will divorce her. When the woman gets sick, there is a 20% chance her husband will divorce her. Men also do very little volunteer work and they do as much elder care as they do childcare, which is none.

Wow, it turns out, if you are a lazy, self-absorbed person, the natural consequence is that nobody wants be around you, unless they are forced to, which is why men are trying to repeal no-fault divorce and right to safe abortion on demand.

What exactly is this hostility that men are talking about? That women refuse to date and marry men because they dump the chores and cleaning on them? This is the part where modern women get the shit end of both sticks. At least her grandmother didn't have to work on top of doing the majority of the chores and childcare, but the granddaughter does.

That men refuse to build their own social support networks and blame women for not dating them and doing all the work to build a social support network for men?

Angrier. More reclusive. The social ostracization leads to living in the echo chamber of your own thoughts. There's no positive support or input coming in to break the spiralling. I don't like it but it's what's happening...

Depression, suicide, social isolation, lack of emotional support, education, alcoholism, etc. etc. These are well known but not properly addressed, often even downplayed and mocked.

Aww. Boo hoo. What are you gonna do? Take a gun and start shooting? 99.9% of mass shooters are men. Women are just as lonely as men. But the difference is that they join book clubs, plan parties and dinners, send Christmas Cards even if they don't get a response. What they don't do is try to kill as many people as they can.

Yes, strictly speaking, it is not anyone else's responsibility, not women's or any other group's, to take help with these issue.

No. This is exactly what you are implying. That it is a women's job to do the work of building social networks for men. If men are refusing to take charge of their life, volunteer more, do the kinkeeping and create support networks for other men, then who the fuck else is left to do the work? Exactly, the women.

But we are all connected. If you do not care because we are your fellow humans, you should care for the sake of making the society better for everyone.

What is this "we" business? Don't fucking scold women under of the guise of "we". Women do plenty. Men do nothing to improve their lives and when they do, it's joining far-right groups that believe women belong in the kitchen with her 5 kids.

That's why I'm glad the chasm is getting ever deeper between men and women with each passing day. My only wish is that they stick men in their own space colony so they can cannibalize each other and leave the women untouched. But knowing men, they'd get along. They aren't so aggressive when the other person is also a man who will fight back.

FitnessBeth · 2025-12-05T19:25:41+00:00

Because in our society, being a man is about meeting standards. All of them. You have to look a certain way, act a certain way, earn a certain amount, restrict your emotions, never ask for help, etc. etc.

Ah yes because society expects literally none of these things from women too.

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Demasii · 2025-12-05T19:56:18+00:00

I understand that this is meant to be abstract but it's too much to the point where it doesn’t actually help me understand how men are being forced into isolation.

Maybe I'm not the target audience for the discussion and maybe OP you are looking for someone who is in a similar position to remind yourself that you are not the only one going through it.

Find people to talk about it or focus on a hobby with a good community and keep searching for human connection.

ThatBitchA · 2025-12-05T19:59:35+00:00

Who is telling men these standards?

OkOutlandishness6370 · 2025-12-05T20:01:34+00:00

Idk OP I can't actually solve any of those overarching, insidious societal trends you spoke of and quiet understated biases .. or the most enraging part, just world fallacy-driven assumption that all failed men are failures because it's their own fault.

People scrambling to protect their "default western privileged urban person" worldview, who are unwilling to acknowledge that anything bad could ever be happening to men collectively, ie, vestigial tradcon gender-essentialist selective reasoning that even effects self proclaimed liberal people, that men always have 100% agency and either responsibility/fault for their circumstances whereas women are always 100% victims of circumstance and need society to change so their lives can be better...

Yeah I can't solve any of that, but what I can do is produce amazing videogames, art, literature, pornography etc. so people like me can watch it all burn comfortably. So that's what I end up doing.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2025-12-05T20:19:23+00:00

With the exception of education, what do you see the answer to your list of men’s issues being? Cuz it can’t just be “get a gf”

Jetpine9 · 2025-12-05T20:30:15+00:00

Decentering women will mean that women and relationships are due for a world of harsh criticism. The same criticism you see commonly directed towards men and relationships in women-centric groups. It won't be pretty, so men hopefully will strive for a higher standard that the rhetoric you hear in here about "voting against women's rights" and so on. That is moral degeneracy. And should be resisted by men when they encounter it. What I'm talking about is realigning values so that your life goals don't revolve around women or experiences with women.

Vulkanus666 · 2025-12-05T20:42:04+00:00

let's analyse this a little shall we?

Who is setting these societal standards?

Contrary to popular belief in the "manosphere" it is most often men who claim to know what women want and then feed that "information" into the broader public. This has been a trend for centuries. A perfect example in the current day and age is the "broad muscular etc." stereotype popularized by the film industry of the last century.
This stereotype became especialy widespread during / after WW2 due to military involvement in media, especially by portraying those "manly man" characters as the thing that women wanted. The women of the time got no real say in that of course.
Since then it has evolved into the stereotype of the provider husband, which leads to many men solely defining themselves by the amount of money they can bring back home, which has been proven to have an adverse effect on mental health, burnout risk, and depression rates.

The societal standards for women however, are also set by men, which has been the case in patriarchal societies since the advent of that type of society. Luckily we are ever so slowly moving away from that, but this of course takes a lot of time, especially because quite a lot of men refuse to let go of their preconceived notions and views, while an unfortunate amount of women have internalised the societal misogyny to such a degree, that they themselves continue to enforce it.

Who is ostracizing people for not meeting those "standards"?

The societal standards for both men and women are often enforced vigorously by the same men that try to adhere to them most. In general societal trends it is men that bully or expell the other men which do not fit into their narrow worldview, while women tend to be more accepting. There are of course minorities in which that is not the case - for example the aforementioned women who have internalised the sexist standards - yet the general trend remains true.

As mentioned before, this is the same for women. In most cases it is not women who ostracize other women for not adhering to the norm, but rather men who, either consciously or unconsciously, do not want women to be outside of the societal norms. Certain things can of course be improved in respect to the internalisation of misogynistic norms and standards, but addressing that would blow the proportions of this discussion.

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Alternative_Cod2280 · 2025-12-05T21:07:24+00:00

It's better and more just to simply give back the hostility, indifference and unforgivness you receive than trying to make thing better for them or everyone, they won't change so let them have it.

They clearly don't care enough to be good to you so why should you? Everybody want to be treated well but nobody is willing to an effort.

People will say that's too individualist or selfish but what else can you do when you're all alone is this? Beg for social crumbs, to be barely tolerated and thrown out the second you fail or aren't good enough to the standards they don't even live up to? Piss off.

attendquoi · 2025-12-05T21:13:35+00:00

Are these men exhibiting hostility themselves?

I don't care what your problem is...if you take it out on me, I'll return fire.

Substantial_Video560 · 2025-12-05T19:33:57+00:00

MGTOW is the only logical path for men nowadays

OkShame3452 · 2025-12-05T19:46:06+00:00

Man up

LillthOfBabylon · 2025-12-05T20:18:15+00:00

The societal hostility towards "failed" men will make things worse for everyone if not addressed

Omg, people are hostile towards hostile people?! THE SHOCK!

Because in our society, being a man is about meeting standards.

That's precisely why people dont like "failed" men. This victim complex. Everyone has to meet standards. You're not a victim when you can't meet reasonable standards.

The social ostracization leads to living in the echo chamber of your own thoughts.

Lazy sacks of shit don't want to stop being lazy sacks of shit so they listen to people who tell them being a lazy sack of shit is fine and society hates them for no reason. Look at Elliot Rodgers for an example.

. It's often not very fruitful to ask for kindness, understanding and support from people who have been denied those very things

Because they're assholes who would never give those things to other people. Look at Elliot Rodgers.

But we have plenty of concrete men's issues that keep getting ignored. Depression, suicide, social isolation, lack of emotional support, education, alcoholism, etc. etc.

Because people have experience with the men you're talking about. They're usually assholes with a victim complex. Look at Elliot Rodgers.

If you do not care because we are your fellow humans

The guys you're talking about dont give two about their fellow humans.

Knight-Bishop · 2025-12-05T19:57:59+00:00

Depression, suicide, social isolation, lack of emotional support, education, alcoholism, etc. etc. These are well known but not properly addressed, often even downplayed and mocked.

You ever notice how women in here NEVER seek to hold other women hold accountable. They hem & haw with the best of them. They seek to play their typical stupid manipulative tactics as if that stuff works with RP men.

Let’s go ahead & address something that never gets talked about: women are in this sub-Reddit for a couple different reasons.

(A)- they hit the Wall & are not married or even have a BF. This is important. Why?

You always have to remember— the misandrist broads in here are the same ones, who saw their Aunt’s/Mom/older women, stick it to men in the court system their entire lives growing up. So, they came looking for answers as to why THEY haven’t been able to get the chance to do the same thing to men.

(B)- single Mom’s, who either chase dudes out of their league/keep getting pumped & dumped or can’t get any dudes at all because they are fat/insufferable…..so, they come online to look for answers….when the problem is the person in the mirror. Feminism lied to you: you aren’t special simply for existing.

(C)- women of all races of all ages, who are infuriated that the red pill has so much influence around the world & their hustle over men is effectively over. So, they come to try to throw a match in the gasoline & seek to disrupt men from spreading the RP more.

(D)- SOME- more like a FEW women whose male loved ones are having issues in life & they are seeking answers out of their love for them.

Etc. etc. etc.

OP— you are just gonna get from these broads the same stupid talking points about the “male loneliness crisis” & how it is “embarrassing to have a BF”…..let’s “decenter men”…..

Title	The societal hostility towards "failed" men will make things worse for everyone if not addressed
Author	AlleGood
Upvotes	20
Comments	124
Date	December 5, 2025 6:48 PM UTC (8 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1pf37qf/the_societal_hostility_towards_failed_men_will/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-societal-hostility-towards-failed-men-will.1568126 https://theredarchive.com/post/1568126

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