On Why You Should Never Take Dating Advice from Women

Cynique · 2013-03-14T18:30:02+00:00

Lesbians give pretty solid advice, though. What can be better than a fish that knows how to fish other fishes?

JustWanderful · 2013-03-14T17:13:49+00:00

You want to make yourself into what you want to be, and then meet a lot of women and see which ones are looking for the unique individual you are.

This.

This is the nugget of gold you're looking for.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

2013-03-14T17:25:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

hotpajamas · 2013-03-14T18:43:11+00:00

The only time I ever scored with chicks is when I wasn't interested in them. Go fucking figure.

Allogenes · 2013-03-14T17:57:35+00:00

Sidebar this.

itsmevichet · 2013-03-14T16:23:59+00:00

Well said, dude.

I always say that seduction advice is about attracting MANY kinds of women, or being attractive overall to more women in general - not any specific ONE woman.

A single woman will only be able to tell you first hand how to attract her - one woman.

That said, if you interview thousands of women (by dating/approaching/otherwise interacting with them) you get a much better picture.

But again, that's first hand knowledge from tons of data in the field, not theory from a single point of data.

basilwhite · 2013-03-14T19:11:26+00:00

There's also the abstraction between what someone wants versus what they reward. To paraphrase your own words, when someone asks, "How do I attract potential partners?", in my mind this translates to "what behaviors do my potential partners reward?"

When people tell me that they're unsatisfied with their dating experiences, I ask them what behavior they reward, because the behavior you reward drives the behavior you get. Inevitably people tell me that they don't connect the behavior they want with the behavior they reward.

If you ask anyone what they like in a partner, people will tell you what they believe they want, but that belief doesn't drive how people choose partners.

For example, someone might tell you to be kind, and polite, and have an education. Ask them if you looked at their current or prior partners would you find a pattern of kindness, politeness or education. Signs point to meh.

To be fair, most people don't know what behavior they reward, and that's okay. We "fall" in love, we don't give love as carrots for targeted behavior. It takes complex thinking to guess what someone will reward and present it to them, and we don't give love to people as a reward for them displaying qualities we admire.

However, it might be to our advantage to ask ourselves, "How do I reward potential partners for their time and effort they spend with me? What did their time with me give them that would encourage them to see me again?"

TL;DR: Reward the behavior you want, and mimic the behavior your potential partners have rewarded in the past.

esengo · 2013-03-14T19:31:17+00:00

I think it goes one step deeper than what you are saying. Women and men have evolved from mammalian conditions over probably millions of generations where the males are the leaders of a pack. The most attractive males in this type of pack mentality of living were the ones who were most successful at fending off predators, providing food for the family, and standing up to other male challengers. We have now obviously advanced past that stage to a great degree; but all the instincts of a women's attraction have not significantly been replaced. Women still want leaders. And this is where listening to what the girl wants is naturally unattractive (at least to the types of women I imagine all of us are striving to attract).

Women want men who are in charge of their own lives, who set the world's stage for themselves; not someone who has to listen to the woman for advice on how to be attractive to them. I believe understanding the core nature of men from women is of absolute importance to attraction. Where there is a void between the archtype of what a true leader is and yourself, you should strive to improve yourself in that area. Even the act of embarking on the course of self-improvement will augment reality and how you are perceived.

For example, in college I developed somewhat of a sit-back-and relax type of mentality. I just allowed things to happen in my life without scrutiny or care for the results. Oh you got a B on that test "oh well." Other guys are in the gym working their asses off and girls notice them more than you, "oh well." People are getting jobs and improving the prospects of their future while you sit on your ass, "oh well." It seemed like a good idea, I felt content because I didn't have to work hard and could do as I pleased, I was a stoic incarnate - or so I thought. My true desires knew better, and all I was really doing was shoving those hurt feelings into the deep recesses of my mind in order to feel good about myself. Trust me, it doesn't work.

I'm not sure when it clicked exactly, but I finally had enough of being the "oh well" guy and said fuck it and decided to pull myself together. I started hitting the gym and working out hard. I enrolled in law school and busted my ass like a salmon swimming up stream in order to procreate. Are you tired EndersGenius? - well who gives a shit, tired is for the oh well guys. Attraction from girls was an afterthought for me. But let me tell you about how natural attraction manifests when you devote yourself to self-improvement - it's like some invisible manufacturing process. The girls that became attracted to me never saw me studying, rarely saw me working out, didn't see me devoting my time to improvement and they don't need to. I was attractive because my core essence told a story of a leader, and women became attracted to that in and of itself.

6PoolPwnage · 2013-03-14T17:32:56+00:00

Top quality shit like this is why I love the Seddit community.

Iceinthewater · 2013-03-14T20:07:48+00:00

Upvoted. Good stuff. I'll add that if you want to bang women fast, and have casual sexual relationships with them, good luck getting a girl to admit that she had that with a guy, and how HE made it happen.

"Oh yeah there's this guy I used to go see at 2am after getting approached all night at the bar. I'd show up in my miniskirt and blow and ride all night, but he'd never call me during the week or take me out. I was secretly in love with him, but all I could get out of him were mouthfulls of jizz. I would dump my current BF for that guy he's so awesome, and I hate him for it, but I love him. AND HERES HOW HE DID IT: STEP ONE...."

Never gonna happen. You won't find out how to BE THAT GUY from a girl.

ThrowawayPUA · 2013-03-14T22:50:25+00:00

This topic comes up fairly frequently and I think this is a pretty eloquent description of some of the factors. But there are probably more direct explanations.

There are generally two factors I use to describe the problem of getting advice from women. One hypothesis is that women are not truly in touch with what attracts them, so they are unable to express it clearly. The other hypothesis is that women do know what attracts them, but they are unable to articulate these reasons in a way that men can comprehend.

In either case, the effect is the same: we get a message that isn't very helpful, unless we try to read between the lines. And of course that's more of a projection of our own psyche, which is probably wrong. Hell, that's the reason most of us are in seddit, because we aren't able to read the signals women give off. So how are we supposed to be able to read between the lines, when we can't even detect blatant signals women give us every day?

pigvwu · 2013-03-14T16:14:39+00:00

I think you might be a little off base here, but the conclusion is the same. Women (or people in general) want to be with people who lead them to fun and exciting experiences (conversations count) first, and then the other stuff comes after that. It seems that whenever you ask an attractive woman what she's looking for in a man, she'll name a bunch of traits that a lot of her male friends have, but for some reason they're all in the friendzone to her. Then you'll notice that she dates people that don't fit that profile. This isn't an insult, but women are generally unable or unwilling to describe what they really want in a man. What they are looking for might be a different thing.

2013-03-15T02:20:41+00:00

Most women don't know what they want. They don't know why some men make them feel the way they feel and they often have no clue as to what men are doing. How are they suppose to give you advice? Why do so many women end up with (from their own words) "douchebags" and can't help but to go back to them? Then they ask us about it and wonder why that's the case. Ask a woman why she fell in love with somebody. She will probably say it's because he is funny and smart or whatever but why was she attracted to him in the first place?

It's not just women though. Most people are completely clueless until you actually study pick up or psychology. Everyone likes to believe they know shit about relationship and human interaction and giving dating advice is some people's favourite past time yet most people are simply not qualified.

2013-03-15T08:23:02+00:00

Same goes with fashion advice. Don't ask women, they all like their own styles.

MegaMoule · 2013-03-14T18:28:17+00:00

There's also a big difference between what a women thinks she wants and what she really wants.

I'm not saying that women will lie to you when they tell you what they want, because most of the time they'll truly believe what they say. However this is often not the what will really attract her.

Attraction is not really a logical thing you can describe or quantify.

The opposite is also true; if you ask a men what he wants in a women he'll answer what he thinks he does, but this isn't what will truly attract him.

jetsetterlife · 2013-03-14T22:38:15+00:00

I'm a woman. This is excellent advice. If I tell this to a dude, does that lower the credibility of it? :(

sandgoose · 2013-03-15T00:44:13+00:00

The real answer to the question is to become the best version of yourself

I was hoping you'd say this, because that's where the discussion was going in my head. Bravo.

GorillasByTheSea · 2013-03-15T02:29:50+00:00

Wow, this is the best advice I have ever read so I just want to say thank you very much for this. You have no idea how much you just changed the way I think of myself. I try to please everyone and I never realized that it will not work.

Great advice!

PrinceofSpades · 2013-03-15T08:30:19+00:00

This is just a fantastic post. I wish someone had told me that line about chameleons when I was much younger.

humanlvl1 · 2013-03-15T11:58:16+00:00

This should be sidebared and linked to whenever someone says seddit is a sleazy PUA den.

swangirl · 2013-03-14T18:23:33+00:00

"See which ones are looking for the unique individual you are" Slow claps

KickassAcademy · 2013-03-14T20:06:49+00:00

Preach

I'll also add that women have no idea how to attract women because they have never done it in their life

Seriously, it'd be like asking someone who watches a lot of TV to design your commercial. Sure, they have been advertised to a ton, and maybe they have a vague idea what they like and don't like. But that doesn't mean they have any idea what goes into making an effective ad.

Add to that the fact that what ALL PEOPLE say they will react to and how they actually behave is totally different and you have yourself a recipe for disaster in taking a girl's advice.

ben0wn4g3 · 2013-03-14T16:25:22+00:00

and because girls have no idea what they actually want. Just like us men, to be honest. When you fall for someone, you really have no control or say in the matter. Certain people just hit the evolutionary triggers and then it's out of our hands.

There was this experiment with a frog, the frog would try and eat a horizontal black line, because it looked and moved like the bug it is evolutionarily programmed to eat, simply turning the same line vertical would result in the frog no longer attacking the line. We humans create narratives for our decisions and choices, likes and dislikes, after the actual brain function / event has really occurred. More than that we often just make stuff up without even realising it.

2013-03-14T18:00:21+00:00

I think this point of view gives too little credit to both genders, but I'll just cover the man end, so to speak.

You are suggesting that men are incapable of effectively disseminating information. They cannot accept advice as specific to a view point and apply it when and where it may be applicable. It suggests that all information is ham handedly applied to every situation and men have little or no ability to consider whether the information source is valid in terms of the issue.

It also assumes that you are asking idiots for advice. If you are asking a human being that cannot distinguish the "self" from the "non-self" for advice about anything, that is a serious downfall on your part. Find better people to talk to.

Simply put, advice from women is useful if it is provided and received by a critically thinking mind. This is true of advice in general.

1vibe · 2013-03-14T18:59:52+00:00

Last woman I asked for advice told me exactly the opposite thing to do from what I should have done! (Tell the girl how I feel). Never again!

UnapologeticalyAlive · 2013-03-14T23:16:42+00:00

As a woman who is bisexual and have had a girlfriend I give advise to both men and women. So since I play for both teams, I figure I am credible enough to give the other team some pointers.

Giglio · 2013-03-15T03:03:24+00:00

As a woman I agree with this. Not every woman is going to tell you that you need to change yourself to suit someone else's taste. So you can learn a lot from asking both sexes.

blnj · 2013-03-14T22:01:54+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

AnnonTheMouse · 2013-03-15T04:22:18+00:00

Best advice and reasoning I've ever heard or read. Thank you for this, just made me realize that I was being a chameleon.

Paulitical · 2013-03-14T23:55:29+00:00

Solid shit right here. I read a lot of Seddit stuff and tend to laugh at all the stupid rules, pick up techniques, ect.

I'm very good at hitting it off with women, and I can say with out a doubt this is one of the best pieces of advice I've read.

bhuddimaan · 2013-03-15T05:17:03+00:00

He said Be yourself

leegirlchange · 2013-03-15T13:22:50+00:00

This is where I get confused because men out there study PUA and try becoming this better version of themselves to try and attract women, but it doesn't always pay off in bettering themselves as a whole. They're just trying to get the girl, and it doesn't always cross along the whole aspect of their lives.

Being single for almost a year now, having been in a 4 year relationship, I'm still not available wholeheartedly for a new guy right now. I don't know when I will be, but, I'm taking the steps in bettering myself as a whole to be ready for when the time comes. I know qualities I want in a guy based on the relationships I've had and the positives/negatives I've dealt with and experienced.

Because I've taken the time to study men and their behaviors and attributes, I feel I am a different type of woman that can play devil's advocate for men and women in different situations, so dating advice from me would be beneficial (of course you expect every woman to say that, right?) but I feel I weigh them evenly.

KaywinnettLeeFrye · 2013-04-19T02:50:36+00:00

Woman here. That is so right. Props.

increaseyourdating · 2013-06-20T00:37:19+00:00

If you ask a guy for dating advice, he will tell you how to fuck the woman you're interested in. If you ask a woman for dating advice, she will give her feelings about it.

getfuckingreal · 2013-03-14T22:14:05+00:00

Not only that, a lot of women don't even really know what they want. how can they tell you? Many think they like PC things, or will say what they are "supposed" to say to avoid admitting things they are attracted to they feel they would be judged for.

choc_is_back · 2013-03-14T22:55:13+00:00

Reading your first paragraphs it downed on me that perhaps you were building to a conclusion saying: don't take dating advice from women because they base it on traits, not actions. Which I kinda liked and nodded in agreement to.

So while it's still an excellent post, and thanks for sharing, for me it was slightly disappointing to have the conclusion be, in essence, 'you want to be great for you, not for her'.

tehgreatist · 2013-03-15T00:59:06+00:00

i second this. i have got some absolutely horrible dating advice from women that i later look back and wonder "why the fuck did i listen to that?"

Itsanewt · 2013-03-15T01:30:01+00:00

Don't take dating advice from redditors. Enough said.

wizy57 · 2013-03-14T18:23:11+00:00

This is beautiful.

Gritsen · 2013-03-14T19:00:19+00:00

Good points. "Win some, lose some" in regard of dating and life in whole is not only a thing to be accepted but also embraced.

pigvwu · 2013-03-14T16:13:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

TezRex · 2013-03-15T08:27:26+00:00

And for that I give you my soul possession on this site, an upvote.

itsmehobnob · 2013-03-14T17:51:01+00:00

Your conclusion is correct: being the best you can be is attractive. But tying it into why its wrong to take advice from women is a non sequitur. You've taken a simple idea (women don't know what they want) and complicated it unnecessarily. Occam's Razor applies.

juloxx · 2013-03-14T18:58:41+00:00

My best advice on getting girls: Dont ask women for advice

Jrix · 2013-03-14T20:01:05+00:00

What about asking men how to attract men? This question has been posed to me in the past and my general answer is something akin to "lol sex"; to be forward with your intentions.

Is my (our) advice sound? Are we qualified?

balr · 2013-03-14T23:49:21+00:00

This is by far the best post on this subreddit this year. Thank you!

JimKim447 · 2013-03-14T18:31:29+00:00

What if what you want to be is the best chameleon possible?

drosengix · 2013-03-14T19:37:57+00:00

Ask people who are exactly like you, but get women, how to get women.

Are you a butch dyke? Ask a butch dyke who gets women how to get women. Are you a good looking guy who can't seem to get chicks? Ask a good looking guy who can. Are you an ugly guy that can't get chicks? Ask an ugly guy who can.

Otherwise, change.

Graphitetshirt · 2013-03-14T21:05:34+00:00

OK. I like it. Basically youre saying that if you ask a woman what she wants in a man, she'll either say, "You" (possible but unlikely or you wouldnt be asking) or she'll describe someone who is definitely NOT you.

not a bad working theory, op

Title	On Why You Should Never Take Dating Advice from Women
Author	UnapologeticalyAlive
Upvotes	935
Comments	204
Date	March 14, 2013 3:51 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1aafq3/on_why_you_should_never_take_dating_advice_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/on-why-you-should-never-take-dating-advice-from.1348914 https://theredarchive.com/post/1348914

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