The Not-So-Great Reason Divorce Rates Are Declining

ContrarianZ · 2019-12-16T22:06:19+00:00

Cohabitation is on the rise though. I don't think the desire to be in relationships have changed that much, just a lot of people, especially lower income ones, not seeing the justification on spending so much on a ring/license/ceremony for something that can easily be nullified in a month or two.

Just moving in is so much easier.

E-Dorian · 2019-12-16T23:41:22+00:00

I live in a country where the government realised cohabitation was rising and marriage was dropping and their solution was not to change the laws to make marriage more appealing, their solution was giving state the power to deem couples as being in a marriage-like relationship, meaning the couple can be forced through a divorce-like separation. The laws seem to be engineered to make it pretty difficult to avoid this.

Disappointing but it is what it is. It is not the top reason I’m not staying in this country for much longer but it’s definitely up there.

poppy_blu · 2019-12-16T20:39:01+00:00

In this light "I don't need no man" feminism seems like a broad conspiracy against the poor, because the poor are harmed the most and kept poor the most by lack of marriage, a veritable death spiral.

Not needing marriage (or religion for that matter) is a "luxury belief".

And yet many of the ones doing the "I don't need no man-ning" end up marrying anyway! And unlike the poor the UMC has other ways to fill the space in their lives that religion (or marriage) would occupy--meaning, community, etc. They have the resources and connections and knowledge to turn to other avenues.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-12-16T20:42:14+00:00

If the cat is out of the bag with women's freedom of men, it stands to reason that men's freedom of taking care of women is also done.

Marriage will decline and hopefully only those that have their shit together will marry. But it will NEVER go away. Women need security like men need sex. Sure there are alternatives, but just by women's hypermajiggle nature, a lot of women will want to be married to a dude she likes.

At best, maybe men will get a better deal out of marriage as women start to see they can't just show up.

sadomasochrist · 2019-12-16T21:27:23+00:00

This is looking into too short of a timespan.

https://aifs.gov.au/sites/default/files/1903_crude-divorces-2017_v2.jpg

Divorce in the 2010's is probably as low as it will ever be. These arguments are made on microtrends and framed as macrotrends.

The macro trend is that divorce has had a notable decrease in frequency, but like real estate, all trends like this have a tendency to return to mean.

The only actual difference that has changed this has been no fault divorce.

So unless they bring back fault divorce or raise exit barriers, more or less the crude rate will be 2.5.

If you snap to the comforting part of this graph, you get this (even in a different country)...

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/195955/divorce-rate-in-the-united-states-since-1990.jpg

So this sort of analysis is always bullshit. Divorce trends aren't going to change markedly.

"About half" of people will get divorced. That's just how it will be, forever. Anything else is wishful thinking.

Anyone who thinks otherwise can look over at Denmark and see their divorce rates. You know, the ultra egalitarian, super educated liberal population?

And they don't even stigmatize single motherhood.

Make no mistake, things haven't changed, this is just shit analysis.

poppy_blu · 2019-12-17T00:35:34+00:00

This isn’t new. It’s been trending this way for over 30 years. Longer in some cases communities.

The irony of all of the divorce rape talk in the manosphere is that the more money a man has the more likely he is to get married. The question is why. Is it because men still tie marriage and providership in their minds? Because the more a man makes the more he’s considered marriage material or has access to higher quality women? Or because tying yourself to another person when your finances or theirs are shit is a terrible idea?

It’s already lead to marriage being the purview is the upper classes. But before you start ringing the alarm bell on poor outcomes for children and communities, there does not exist good data that suggests those outcomes are poor because people aren’t marrying or because they're poor. Common sense says two people/incomes is gong to make things better for a child than one. But again does single parenthood drive poverty or does poverty drive single parenthood?

Do we in 2019 need to address it? Do we need more incentives for people with few reasons to marry to do so? Or do we need to address the bigger issue of poverty and let the rest take care of itself?

sublimemongrel · 2019-12-16T20:49:49+00:00

I don't really see it as too big a problem although I feel bad for those co-habitators who have their SO die but then the SO's family swoops in because co-habitator was never married and thus, does not have rights to what is (still, typically) not a lot but at least something like a house/car/trailer. The types of people I am talking about are not the types to get wills properly drawn up either.

wont_tell_i_refuse_ · 2019-12-17T04:59:58+00:00

Theory: The new "default" relationship is the one between a paypiggy and an e-thot. Women don't actually want to be touched (except by Chads) so they just charge betas to see their "tease" pictures. As our society shifts to being completely behind a screen, this commoditized relationship will become the new normal. It probably already is tbh

This is the end of both women's employment (as this is MUCH more lucrative than any job 99% of women can do) and marriage. Women are collectively saying "Fuck this shit" and men are happily going along because they have disposable income. Not sure how this will evolve once the moveable feast moves on.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-12-16T21:12:47+00:00

The effect of this will be a return of a true Aristocracy

maljo24 · 2019-12-16T21:52:36+00:00

Divorce numbers are less common but divorce rates only apply to married couples, so a decline in divorce rates is a good thing.

Million-Suns · 2019-12-16T23:21:14+00:00

Essentially, divorce is becoming less common only because marriage is becoming less common, and more an institution of the UMC (Upper Middle Class).

Honestly, marriage was never made for commoners. It was about gaining lands and preventing wars.

What do you think this will lead to in the future? Do you think its a problem?

No it's a good thing. People will stop thinking being paired with someone else is the only path. Furthermore if marriage disappears altogether, so will arranged marriages.

And as pointed out in other thread, even without marriage, custody battles and child support allocation will still remain relevant if kids are in the picture.

ifelsedowhile · 2019-12-16T23:39:12+00:00

I read that after the Dutch government passed a law restricting alimony, the number of divorces increased. One possible explanation is that many women are rushing to ask for a divorce before the new law is implemented so they can benefit from they previous one.

hammerhaunts · 2019-12-16T22:48:32+00:00

The End of the West

Redslif · 2019-12-17T04:12:11+00:00

The upper class will never stop getting married. It's basically a union between two well-off families to combine their wealth. Also, people in the upper class don't get divorce raped. In my circles, if a woman tries to fleece her husband for money, she and her family will be looked down upon. In fact, the woman doesn't have to fleece her husband since her family is well-off as well.

As for how to address the issue for other classes, introducing a marital asset split based on their respective contributions to the marriage should revive marriage rates. That way, the lower earner can't steal resources from the higher earner in a marriage.

ToraChan23 · 2019-12-17T15:32:32+00:00

People are still together, just not getting married.

I don't see how that is a problem. Maybe for De Beers and wedding companies.

corey_trevorson · 2019-12-17T15:42:11+00:00

It's probably good that people aren't taking marriage as lightly as they did in the boomer era. Shotgun marriages and whatnot. I'm guessing we'll be better off without those..

A-Merks-ican · 2019-12-17T06:40:15+00:00

Marriage is modern day suicide for men. At my Male dominated job, marriage is scoffed at by the younger generation as we watch the older generation get screwed over by their spouses and the state.
We got to watch our parents fight each other, before and after divorce, and sow seeds of distrust and malice about each other into our young, impressionable minds.
In my young 30s I've already watched peers of mine get divorced or come thisclose over insignificant things that can only amount to a lack of leadership, a lack of communication, and too much feminism.

Do I wish it were different? Absolutely. I wish we were strong enough to own our shit. To keep our rooms clean, and make our beds. I wish we could learn to communicate and understand each other better. I wish the men in this society would stfu and become strong, masculine role models that didn't become butthurt at the first shittest.
I wish our children still had roles models in the home or in a church, and not a publicly funded grade school teacher or a self righteous movie actor.

But our matriarchal society doesn't allow that. The men are soft, connected to their couches or trying to "plate" or "next" any sexually liberated slut they can find.
The women are morally lazy, obsessed with finding oppression or convincing themselves that sleeping around and aborting their babies is "feminism." Branch swinging as fast they fucking can from their beta cucked, fat husbands, while simultaneously blaming them online for every problem in the world.

This it our world. To survive is to consume the next Hollywood product and blindly agree with the twitter rage mob, to die is to attempt to delve into traditionalism and self improvement.

Today, marriage is a weapon, not a tool.

skystar86 · 2019-12-16T22:17:50+00:00

Religious people are still getting married.

putconfac · 2019-12-17T01:04:14+00:00

Im a man and I think inly an idiot would marry women cheat by default and they divorcerape you blaming you for everything.

rus9384 · 2019-12-17T06:00:41+00:00

I thought divorce rates were measured as a percentage of marriages.

cxj · 2019-12-17T16:08:39+00:00

Strong communities, nations... what have you ... across time, share certain features. Features which can collectively be described as patriarchy, although that term, being engineered out of the political biases of a few educated lesbians, doesn't adequately describe the full set of traits that lead to intergenerational success.

Rule by men and sexual restrictiveness are but a few aspects of the equation. Equally important are encouraging honest and blunt speech, emphasis on honor/prestige and punishing of transgressors, an armed populace committed to self defense, not coddling children, all the way down to details like physical fitness and eating natural/wholesome foods... basically think of the spartan or roman republican ethic, and you'll have a rough idea of the thing.

You can see these virtues arise here and there throughout history and they invariably lead to the success, sometimes dominance, of a polity or community. You could see it in the black power movement of the 60s/70s, with its emphasis on internally strong cohesive communities that police themselves, and protect themselves through force of arms. Had that movement not been stamped out by the FBI and the terrified white status quo, blacks would be on par with the asians or orthodox jews of today.

What the right crudely alludes to as "family values" have done more for impoverished/minority communities in the west than any government program has ever done. One father who passes along strong ethics and skills needed for self sufficiency to his children does more good than any amount of money being thrown at that same family by the leftist political machine. What the materialist view of history fails to grasp is that some things are worth far more than money. That's why their experiments fail and degenerate into frustrated, rage-fueled mass murder time and again.

What can actually be done about this? On a societal level, very little. On an individual level, the one that matters - everything. One man cannot change a country of millions, but he can lift up his entire neighborhood. This is where TRP initially got it wrong. You can't cause the winds of politics to blow in another direction, but you can be well positioned to make the most of it when they do change.

MuleFool42 · 2019-12-17T17:34:09+00:00

I don't think it's a problem. As a MGTOW I believe that it's better that people live their lives in an independent fashion, work on themselves, and never get married.

So I'm probably not the person to ask, I see the decline in marriage as a good thing.

MrShakedown1 · 2019-12-17T18:45:56+00:00

Not surprising, men have nothing to gain and a LOT to lose in financial pact known as marriage.

MakeMoneyNotWar · 2019-12-16T21:13:02+00:00

I actually think this is a good thing.

Marriage is an outdated patriarchy institution designed to opress women.

-OpportunityCost · 2019-12-16T22:09:23+00:00

What do you expect, marriage is too risky for most nowadays. It's a product of the rapidly changing society we are currently living in. I personally don't think we will ever see a rise in marriage rates again and the number will only continue to drop.

smokecheck1976 · 2019-12-17T05:18:20+00:00

It's just a sign of an increasingly atomized society. It will lead to further social breakdown. Children born into it will have further developmental and social problems as their single parent is busy with work and trying to have a romantic connection. This means the glowing box will continue to be a babysitter even more.

As society currently stands it will not be addressed. Any effort on the part of the government to encourage marriage and child rearing will be shouted down by the leftist hordes as being anti-feminist and anti-woman.

What will eventually address it is that when a system that is entirely constructed upon debt, as our current system is, inevitably collapses and destroys the currency it is based upon. Feminism will be utterly crushed for three generations when that happens, and women will seek men that can and will take care of them. Look to Eastern Europe and Russia in the 1990s, only it will be worse in the west.

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rochesterjones · 2019-12-17T01:07:10+00:00

What’s not great about that? Marriage is weird

Willow-girl · 2019-12-17T05:50:07+00:00

[deleted]

Evening-Bee · 2019-12-18T00:57:36+00:00

You're too fatalistic, this post should be deleted.

skystar86 · 2019-12-16T20:52:15+00:00

UMC and above tend to be Conservative. They're only making their own lives worse because everyone starts importing immigrants from shithole countries to make up for the lack of babies being born from people not marrying and suddenly culture starts looking a lot less white, but they also can't afford to not import them because having more young people than old people is what our social systems are built on.

2019-12-16T21:12:54+00:00

[deleted]

ekmetzger · 2019-12-16T20:39:01+00:00

Difficult to tell, but I think sex (talking strictly about the U.S. here) will be hyper liberalized in the future, or at least far less traditionally "Christian", which I have no real issues with.

Open relationships and polyamory are eventually going to beat out traditional monogamous frameworks as the primary "type" of relationship. Pair bonds and such will still happen, not possible to get rid of them entirely, but they're going to be spiced up with swinging, multiple partners and little extra sexual novelties which are (likely, if you look at the research) cognitively beneficial.

Title	The Not-So-Great Reason Divorce Rates Are Declining
Author	cxj
Upvotes	41
Comments	292
Date	December 16, 2019 8:29 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ebko8o/the_notsogreat_reason_divorce_rates_are_declining/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-not-so-great-reason-divorce-rates-are.300698 https://theredarchive.com/post/300698

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