The concept of ‘privilege’ is deeply anti-therapeutic

zonadedesconforto · 2022-04-07T19:49:29+00:00

Privilege rhetoric is deeply flawed and reactionary. It does not desire to end abuse or exploitation, it does not seek liberation or freedom, it only seeks to achieve “equality” by making everyone equally miserable.

House_of_Raven · 2022-04-07T20:09:59+00:00

Literally yesterday I had made a comment on a post about how men should be allowed to show emotion without being judged or shamed.

A woman replied that, in her experience, men aren’t judged about anything and women have it so much worse. It had devolved to the point where she used a line I’m betting we’ve all heard too often “you only bring up men’s issues to take away from women’s issues”, where I had to remind her that the literal topic of conversation and the post was about men not being given a space of acceptance to show emotion. To which she replied “lol ok, I don’t care about that”.

We sure do live in a society

Nayko214 · 2022-04-07T19:51:23+00:00

The 'privelage' mostly extends to the super wealthy anyway. Most straight white guys have about as much power to influence society at large as anyone else does. Not like the guy working a 9-5 can just ring up his governor or senator on the line and get a conversation going, or can just talk to their boss and get rules or regulations changed.

Obviously there are things were some will benefit for various reasons as we all know such as police interactions if you're white or black/brown or so. Obviously. I'd imagine most involved here aren't going to deny those aspects. But to say men are privileged for simply being men ignores the cold reality that most of us don't inherently have any more control over things than anyone else does.

So I ultimately agree that its just used as a way to shut men up from discussing their problems.

AdAcademic4290 · 2022-04-07T21:11:27+00:00

'Privilege' has become a weapon word, a knee-jerk reaction used to humiliate and dehumanised whichever segment of the population is out of favour with the speaker.

SomeLo5er · 2022-04-07T20:34:35+00:00

You cannot convince a person that they’re privileged and then act like you want to genuinely help them. The help feminists tend to offer men is tainted with condescension/contempt.

The message they are sending you is : Despite your male privilege , you still couldn’t get it together.

BloomingBrains · 2022-04-07T20:59:58+00:00

Its so much worse than just simply saying that you have privilege, too. Its almost like wokeists will spin things around as if the problems you're talking about are merely manifestations of you being mad that you can't exploit that privilege even more ruthlessly. Kind of like how bible belt Christians often complain about anti religious discrimination laws that don't let them indoctrinate children in public schools. They're claiming oppression because they can't use their religion to oppress others. That's how feminists see men and male privilege.

For example, a guy talks about never having a girlfriend, never had sex, feels like he has no shot and is undesirable, etc. and people often just say "Rape is already basically legal in this country and now you want state mandated girlfriends?"

It may be debatable that you have the ‘right’ to lead a better life, but at least you and your therapist must acknowledge you don’t deserve your bad luck either.

This is the best response to that. For what it's worth, anyway, since people don't listen.

The mere acknowledgement that the bad luck is undeserved may bring about a better life without having to force anyone to do anything.

Liman_Albridge · 2022-04-07T20:22:32+00:00

Excellent point. I wonder if we should differentiate between privileges (actual tangible things that are granted to some and withheld from others) and advantages. Everybody has advantages and disadvantages, and that would give us a lot more opportunity to talk about the various advantages and disadvantages that people experience.

What you're talking about is NO JOKE. As a dude who was castigated by an entire small town for gender-related nonsense, it's deeply damaging to consistently be told (and to internalize) that our problems don't matter, just because they're not as bad as other peoples. What a stupid way to look at things, and so profoundly harmful to men. Ugh.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2022-04-07T19:27:11+00:00

Feminists are all about intersectionality.... Except for straight, white men. Then there is none.

thereslcjg2000 · 2022-04-07T20:19:18+00:00

I’m in my last semester of undergraduate college and am currently taking a class centering around counseling. It really emphasizes the importance of therapists taking privilege and oppression into account. That honestly alarms me a great deal; even assuming those theories were 100% true, I can’t imagine how they could possibly do anything but harm in a therapeutic setting.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2022-04-07T20:59:43+00:00

I share this anecdote a lot, but I was once told that I couldn't be depressed because I have too much white privilege.

Son_of_Sophroniscus · 2022-04-07T22:49:07+00:00

Fucking hell this thread has some based takes.

peanutbutterjams · 2022-04-08T01:39:33+00:00

Maybe more for men than for other groups considered privileged,

This is a great point because self-sacrificing for your family is a huge part of traditional male culture. Whether it be risking life and limb to provide for your family, working long hours or on shift work and not being able to spend much time with the family for whom you're providing, or acting as the ol' meat shield and putting yourself between danger and the unprotected.

Telling the kinds of people I'm describing that they're privileged, that they have a better life than the people for whom they sacrifice so much, is telling them that they're failures as providers. A provider doesn't get the best stuff; they get what's left over after everybody has had their fill. But the message from society is that men en masse are gobbling up the best and leaving nothing behind for women.

While older, married men with families may be less likely to listen because their daily experience proves the feminist messaging otherwise but younger men are going to be eager to prove to women that they 'recognizing their privilege'. Which is just another way of saying that they will put the consideration of women first on a societal level, not just a personal one.

It's a commitment to traditional male gender norms on both a political scale and personal one.

That's why we get dude-bros who look down on anti-feminists as weak. They've fully invested in the traditional gender norms and have been rewarded by feminists for that. Taking all the verbal and mental abuse hurled towards men by feminists on a daily basis just proves how strong and tough and stoic they are.

'Anti-feminists are weak because they let themselves be hurt by the things that women say.' Let the sexism of that stew in for a little.

Blauwpetje · 2022-04-07T19:51:59+00:00

This is why I hate therapists. Wasted my time on two of them in a very dark time in my life. They insisted I reflect on my male privilege and why I'm taking it for granted and that male depression under patriarchy isn't possible due to said privilege and I was being ungrateful and dramatic.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2022-04-07T19:53:15+00:00

In short, I think the concept of ‘privilege’ is a big health hazard. Maybe more for men than for other groups considered privileged, as men are shamed anyway for showing they feel bad, by conservatives and feminists alike. And also because, while whites and straight people indeed might on average (but just on average) lead better lives than POC and gays, men don’t have better lives than women. So any psychologist or therapist, and everybody with the slightest bit of empathy for men, should shun the word, for health’ sake!

I totally agree! I really don't mind being told I have white privilege, straight privilege, or higher-education privilege, etc., but I deeply resent being told I have male privilege, since I am certain my life would have been easier as a woman.

Langland88 · 2022-04-07T22:45:40+00:00

Honestly, I've never been a fan of the whole notion of priviledge. I mean I acknowledge the meaning behind it but often people use the term as a means of shaming tactics similar to when people use the concept of First World Problems as well. It seems like to me that people who like say that you need to check your priviledge are usually trying to find some sort of means to make you feel guilty about yourself and about things you probably have no control over or about sort of respect you apparently didn't earn. It seems like to me, it was perhaps a helpful concept but it has been tainted by people who want to be self-righteous and for a lack of better words, smug about themselves. I also find it ironic that the people, especially Feminists, who often scream about you needing to check your priviledge, often won't check their own priviledge or simply dismiss their priviledge as nothing.

iainmf · 2022-04-08T02:04:44+00:00

It just occurred to me:

'Privilege' essentially means "you have too much". 'Disadvantage' essentially means "you have too little".

Naming the problem of inequality as some people having too much can't be good psychologically. If you have 'privilege' then you have to diminish yourself to solve the problem. If you don't have privilege then the framing encourages you to become envious and resentful.

Darkwolf90 · 2022-04-08T11:59:56+00:00

My largest issue in attempting therapy is they are generally ideologically driven, they make no attempt to help create the you, you seek to create. They are largely ignorant and lack any real philosophical thinking and think that them being taught how to effectively brainwash people gives them a right to because it's for "the greater good". If you're looking for therapy find someone who's open to discussing your destination and will educate you on how to get there.

Jonathanese · 2022-04-08T05:12:43+00:00

Yeah I've heard both from my own therapist and men's therapists the phrase "Privilege has absolutely no value in the therapy room." Partially from therapists sick of the idea of blaming men's issues on "men's privilege", or similar forms of self-blame.

The term doesn't much good for anyone. A man lost his family and home, so what do you tell him...."this all happened because society favors you?" I don't know if that would be more victim-blaming or more gaslighting, but it's like the two morphed together in some way that says "you're going through shit only because you aren't going through as much shit as everyone else." So....your issue isn't real. Or if it is real, it is caused by a lack of issue. And that lack if issue is ultimately caused by you.

But like, if you're starving, then if someone says "well people who eat a lot have your hair color" or "well there are people hungrier than you", that doesn't make you starve any less.

I've often said that the biggest critics of the "man up" mentality are often the ones who go through the most mental gymnastics to reinforce the "man up" mentality. And this seems like one such case.

It is probably used primarily to make sure men remain the cause of social issues, rather than society at large. And then that probably came from social justice groups wanting to dish out criticisms, but realizing they themselves don't meet their own standard. So instead of including themselves in the solution, they try to absolve themselves of their share of responsibility behind a wall of hypo-agency. Which is to say "You shouldn't be free to say what you want, because it affects society. But I shouldn't have to watch what I say because I'm a woman and therefore incapable of having an affect on society". It's basically the #1 form of misogyny practiced by the primary opponents of misogyny.

Stuff like this are why I generally try to avoid narratives and movements. I don't think the idea of "male privileges" is outright wrong per se. But there are a lot of other narratives that also aren't wrong. And if you're trying to help an individual situation, but prioritize abstract narratives over the issues right in front of your face, then your narrative is more distracting than it is descriptive.

Punder_man · 2022-04-08T06:01:20+00:00

My biggest issue with the concept of 'privilege' as used within feminist circles is that it is often used as a way to draw conclusions about someone based on immutable characteristics.

Privilege also is based on what they assume to be true and does not take into account anything else.

For example.. in their mind they see a white man and assume 'privilege' and from that they assume that said white man has lived life on 'easy' mode.
It doesn't matter if that white man grew up in abject poverty, barely having enough to eat and didn't get the best education.. all that matters is the presumed identity of white men being 'privileged'

its effectively treating ALL men as a monolith of being inherently privileged to the point that in their eyes any 'hardships' suffered by men are minor and could never amount to the hardships faced by women

Secondly I find it utterly outstanding how a feminist can sit there and look at a man who has lost all custody of his children due to biases within the family courts and is forced to pay more than he earns in a month in child support / alimony and have the gall to claim that he is 'privileged'

Even worse is the irony when you point out that as a woman living in the 'western world' they have INFINITELY more 'privilege' than most women in 3rd world or heavily Arab countries.. but they never seem willing to acknowledge this..

TL;DR: Privilege is a buzz word used by feminists as yet another shaming tactic to shut down criticism from men.

International_Crew89 · 2022-04-08T01:25:22+00:00

I'm seeing a lot of fancy explanations, but at the end of the day judging individuals by group identities is simply not conducive to furthering equality. That's why the privelage argument as it's commonly used will always generate more friction between groups and more antipathy between individuals.

Phantombiceps · 2022-04-08T08:49:01+00:00

Privilege has also become an incoherent idea. Because in order for it to be unjust, there need be some kind of common humanity, which there is. This is a naturalistic idea of the enlightenment ( though it echos early religion) : we all bleed red, we all have nervous systems, regardless of rank or lineage. But it then follows that we have common psychological needs. This obviously includes to not have your feelings, experiences, and even pain denied, dismissed or mocked. But “privilege” invokers act like this need is cancelled by “privilege”, indicating the “ privileged” are a breed apart.

Of course, the original concept of privilege as you see it used in the 19th and early 20th centuries was much more limited. So it made sense. It just meant robber barons and royalty, the very rich of the day. And they weren’t derided at the time for being lucky or well off, but for sending men with guns after starving miners or farmers - while not even having to work themselves.

Motanul_Negru · 2022-04-09T11:05:14+00:00

A veteran educator and psychologist called me (transl.) "the favoured child of destiny" because I don't owe a bent copper to any bank. And I do mean veteran, this person is recently retired, and is someone who generally knows their business very well, at least to my untrained ear. This may or may not have been in jest, but it went down like a lead balloon, as you can easily imagine.

This problem can take many forms, and the actual word "privilege" need not be involved. Probably the best thing to do with any therapist or similar who starts pointing out how good you have it, whether it's correct or not, is to proverbially tug at their sleeve and remind them that's not why you're talking to them and to drop these points. If they don't, extract yourself politely and move on.

Analitic0_57 · 2022-04-10T14:23:46+00:00

I think putting politics into therapy is unprofessional. It also goes against ethical code of conduct for psychologists to blame their client for some of their characteristics.

The primary goal for professionals should be helping them to have a functional approach toward the challenges of their life in order to live well. Politics should be off-limits

charlottehywd · 2022-04-11T11:42:52+00:00

In its current incarnation, the concept of privilege mostly serves to limit empathy to a set number of minority groups. If you aren't a member of those groups, you're considered undeserving of pity or kindness. You deserve whatever bad things that happen to you because you're part of the problem. Even trying to be "one of the good ones" is a fool's errand. And of course, class is rarely factored in.

Honestly, it seems like cruelty and laziness disguised as kindness.

2022-04-11T22:45:41+00:00

I get the impression that the word "privilege", while it can be used to describe observable things, is used as a social and political cudgel to bash people deemed wrong or non-progressive enough.

I seldom use it for this reason.

And besides, I often hear "privilege" used to describe things that should be considered common decency. "Consider your privilege that you can interact with a police officer without worrying about being arrested or brutalized. A Black man does not have that privilege." To that, I say that being treated decently should be the baseline.

If you talk about being born into wealth and having a large inheritance, that is privilege.

lorarc · 2022-04-08T09:01:49+00:00

Privilege is real.

I work in a multinational work setting. We have people from western countries, people from eastern Europe like me and people from places like India or Bangladesh.

We are all on the same level but the guys that grew up in Norway or UK are privileged compared to me, it was easier for them to achieve this level. And it was easier for me to achieve this level then it was for guys from India. That is if we all were coming from working class because an upper class guy from India had it easier than working class guys from UK.

The problem is that when used with very broad strokes it doesn't make sense. Like the notion that it's easier for men to achieve success. Maybe it is, but that doesn't mean that a middle class educated women working office jobs are somehow disprivileged compared to guys from working class working lower end jobs.

A lot of people use "privilege" as a means to get extra victim points for stuff that just doesn't concern them. I could say I'm disprivileged because on average the men are supposed to pay for all the dates but that doesn't concern me any more because I do earn more than 99% of men and women around me.

National-Aardvark-72 · 2022-04-08T20:20:09+00:00

This reminded me of a post I saw awhile ago on r/psychologystudents. I suggest you read it. https://np.reddit.com/r/psychologystudents/comments/sccnrl/concerned_my_views_may_interfere_with_practice/

I’m confident it will give you a more optimistic outlook on this subject. Psychologists out of anyone are more in touch with what people really go through, and if they were to dismiss your problems because you are a man, they would be an embarrassment to the profession.

For those of you who don’t want to read it, most of the comments were along the lines of, its not all black and white when it comes to privilege (no pun intended).

“Privilege” does not address exceptions to the rule or concern itself with the struggles of those who are more privileged than others. But that doesn’t mean privilege itself doesn’t exist. Whether or not cis, straight, male, etc peoples issues are overlooked has nothing to do with the fact that not being these things comes with many challenges. It’s not a contest, and if you encounter a mental health professional who treats it like a contest and dismisses your issues, they are garbage. But I’d like to think most of them aren’t so petty and dogmatic.

decoy88 · 2022-04-07T21:53:30+00:00

Fucking hell this thread has some bad takes.

2022-04-08T19:05:27+00:00

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2022-04-08T20:18:18+00:00

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2022-04-08T20:19:04+00:00

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Moist-Quiet-647 · 2022-04-18T16:42:20+00:00

The main issue with "privilege" is that it's always only about a handful of issues : Gender, race, sexual orientation, and SOMETIMES social class.

What is left out is biological privileges: beauty, height, strength and sportiness, intelligence, extraversion and charisma, and above all mental health.

However biological privileges are seen as necessary or even "fair" because, unlike social privileges, biological privileges do not have a culprit. It's no one's fault that someone biologically underprivileged suffers. Also the consequences of biological privilege are mostly interpersonnal rather than "macro". Because of this, it generates no indignation. Even the most radical of antifa won't give a shit about biological privileges (or may even justify them since primitivism sometimes goes hand in hand with leftism).

Here lies the main problem for us: being male has both social and biological implications. Being male may come with arbitrary social privileges but biologically, it's a curse really: much harder to find a mate, much easier to be seen as a creep, easier to experience loneliness and mental health, etc...

Title	The concept of ‘privilege’ is deeply anti-therapeutic
Author	Blauwpetje
Upvotes	188
Comments	125
Date	April 7, 2022 7:16 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/tykgns/the_concept_of_privilege_is_deeply_antitherapeutic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/the-concept-of-privilege-is-deeply-anti.1110868 https://theredarchive.com/post/1110868

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