And when did Hollywood become so prudish when it comes to female nudity?
Disclaimer: I’m not a straight guy, so it’s not like I have a secret agenda to see female nudity for my own pleasure. But the double standards have been off charts lately, so it’s hard not to take issue with it. Anyway, has anyone else noticed this trend when it comes to sex scenes lately:
The characters are having sex in missionary position, his back completely exposed (including butts), but she’s wearing a bra, shirt or the scene is shot in a way that obscures her boobs.
They’re having sex doggystyle or she’s riding him, but she’s wearing skirt, completely covering her back.
These are just a few examples. I always had problems with productions that have copious amounts of sex, but try to protect one gender from nudity and not the other. Regardless of gender. The Americans, one of my favorite shows, does exactly that (naked female characters while avoiding male nudity) and I also found that uncomfortable. But lately, if feels like the pendulum swung hard and that there’s plenty of male nudity in Western productions, while they go out of their way to avoid female nudity.
And when there’s female nudity, it’s usually boobs, but not butt or frontal. There seems to be this idea that “if female actresses showed their boobs, it’s only fair that male actors show their penises”. But if you think about it, female frontal from prominent actresses is just as rare. Most actresses don’t want to do it once they get famous. Even shows like GOT, which we can agree was more taxing to the female cast members when it comes to nudity. I mean, which actress did frontal nudity? None that I can remember (Lena Headey used body double). It’s mostly less important characters and randos who do the frontal. The only one who did frontal nudity from the main cast (both genders) in the show was Alfie Allen (Theon), as far as I can remember.
Now, some of the reasons I can think of as responsible for the current state of affairs when it comes to the lack of female nudity:
1 - #MeToo: With the movement being as popular as it is in Hollywood (with intimacy directors becoming more and more prominent in the industry, btw), many directors are probably afraid to stick up to their artistic vision and end up offending some actresses who’ll proceed to bad mouth him in the future. Either that or they’re overly agreeable and willing to make concession, even for people who evidently knew where they were getting into. One example (prior to #MeToo, granted) is the infamous Deborah Ann Woll’s (rumored) no nudity clause in True Blood, which was incredibly jarring, considering how sexual her arc was throughout the show. How she managed to pull that as an unknown actress in her first big production, in HBO from all places, I have no idea. But she was extremely lucky. Then there’s one of the most famous cases, Emilia Clarke in GOT, who pushed back against nude scenes. After a certain point, she no longer appears naked. Those who read the source material are aware that her scenes were considerably toned down in comparison to the books, where she has plenty of public sex with Khal Drogo in front of the whole Khalasar. I mean, really? A first time actress in a role that many actresses would sell their souls to have, making demands like this when she had the books to inform her of how her role would be like? The most recent example I’ve seen is Minka Kelly in Euphoria. For those who don’t know, it’s yet another show that leaves most of the nudity for its male characters (including in some ways that are obviously there to be appealing to the female audience, like the fat girl whose arc is about body positivity, but has a vivid dream about being fucked by a tall, hung and conventionally attractive Dothraki), while having a few boobs here and there, but protecting the lower parts of the female cast. All that while paying media outlets to produce articles about how bold the actresses are for their nudity. I don’t really have a problem with actresses being able to negotiate such things with directors, but at what point does it become ok to completely jeopardize the artistic vision of the director just because you don’t wanna do nudity? We’re not really talking about actresses who didn’t know where they were getting into. The ones I mentioned, for example, were all in HBO shows, a channel that is notorious for its nude scenes. So if you don’t wanna bother with nude scenes, you’re really not in the right place. Also, one thing I find interesting is that despite all the fuss about male nudity in HBO shows, their shows had male nudity for as long as I can remember, in pretty much equal proportion to female nudity (Rome, True Blood, etc) or even more male nudity now (The Leftovers, Watchmen, Euphoria). People just like to focus on GOT, which was obviously huge and had more focus on female nudity.
2 - The belief that male nudity is always something comical or non-sexual, while female nudity is inherently erotic. I think this one was already very evident for people who watch cartoons, where male butts aren’t uncommon, but with the fear of overly sexualizing women in Hollywood, I think this concept has also been translated to live action. So writers and directors feel reticent about having female nudity, but are ok showing men naked. It’s very silly, because what’s really the criteria to determine whether something is sexual or not? I also believe this is one of the reasons why male nudity is apparently much more acceptable in mainstream movies these days, which is why they manage to have guys like Chris Hemsworth and Hugh Jackman stripping naked in blockbusters. The last blockbuster I remember watching in theaters with female back nudity was Hansel and Gretel (2013), but I wouldn’t really say it’s something as mainstream as Avengers or X-Men.
3 - The realization that it’s actually much easier to captivate a faithful female audience with good looking actors than a male audience with good looking actresses. People talk a lot about fanservice for male audiences, but in the context of Western productions, I really can’t see your average male viewer sticking to a mediocre show because they find the actresses attractive. I could see people doing that over some 2D waifu in a bad Japanese animation, but not in Western productions. They’ll at best google the steamy moments in a porn site, but not actively watch a show because of it. If there is that kind of fanservice, it’s a bonus and not the end itself. But seeing the tastes of my female friends and family members, the amount of crap they’re willing to watch because of eye candy is shocking. And despite the insufferable conversation about “male gaze”, there are always movies targeting a female audience on Netflix’s top 10 in my country every week, some of which feel more like softcore porn. Dark Desire, 350 dni, Sex/Life, Toy Boy. Not sure about where you guys live, but all of these shows were in Netflix’s top 10 for weeks in my country. All of which feature heavy male nudity in very sexual ways.
My question is, has anyone else noticed this reticence when it comes to female nudity in Hollywood, while directors go wild on male nudity, or am I going crazy? I could mention many examples, but a show that perfectly exemplifies this attitude is The Boys, despite how it sells itself as a mature and politically incorrect show.
The other one is about the third point. I don’t have a problem with nudity or even sexualization, but the increased male sexualization was immediately followed by the notion that female sexualization is bad. The most cliche example being “America’s ass”. Or can anyone imagine similar jokes about the bodies of female cast members in the current climate of the MCU (btw, always good to remember that Chris Hemsworth wasn’t really happy about his shirtless scenes, but zero fucks were given. And that because we’re talking about a famous and established actor). What exactly is the endgame here? In my opinion, either everyone gets sexualized or no one does. But the current feeling seems to be that female sexualization should be avoided at all costs, while male sexualization is encouraged as a way of “subverting expectations and the male gaze”.
This was an old post I had archived and ended up not posting, but given Chris Hemsworth’s butt nudity in the recent Thor: Love and Thunder trailer (which generated some discussion on the ShittyMovieDetails sub about the double standards, but it was quickly locked by the mods), which I fully expect to not be blurred in the actual movie, I thought it would be interesting to post and see if others have noticed a similar trend.
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I think that male nudity is still seen as subversive in the sense that it's usually females who are exposed to the camera much more.
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Sure, but womens breasts are sexualised in western culture so a woman being topless in the same situation wouldn't be equivalent.
Just look at superhero costumes. On the whole, women show FAR more skin, and that's even with some male characters costumes amounting to essentially a speedo.
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Well mine obviously. And I haven't seen the latest Thor movie, but basing it on how he was objectified in the female ghost busters, it was very much done in a subversive and self aware manner. Given that Taika Waititi is the director of this latest one, I think it's basically a given that it will be more of that.
I saw a very good video explaining exactly what 'male gaze' was that I found compelling, and I definitely notice it the (few) times it's used on men instead. I think that if you accept that male gaze is a thing then is that the data you need? What would such data look like?
There are countless anecdotes of directors pressuring female actors to undo their clothes and show more skin on screen, up to and including surprising them with complete nudity or sex scenes that they were pressured into.
So, there's the world how it is and there's how the world FEELS how it is. Like take Fox news. They make a living trying to scare their audiences, and they succeed. Their audiences are afraid of lots of things in a disproportionate way. I think the point you are trying to make is that there's a feminist narrative that women are under siege from men basically all the time and that's why they need feminism as their shield and their sword. Yes?
Yes this varies by culture, but they have always been fertility symbols.
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I don't think anyone is protesting that (which also had a lot of people there to see the 'hoff too). Just that it's weird people complaining about an imbalance when the actual imbalance is quite large and going the other way historically.
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I think the fact that women suffered from inequality in the past qualifies as a good justification for organisations which were trying to address that equality existing.
That might be two different groups of women....
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