Why be on the Left when modern leftism is a virulently anti-male movement?

ConvolutedMaze · 2022-06-22T00:49:32+00:00

I feel like letting these people have the left isn't the way to go. We have to push the extremists out.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-06-22T01:01:12+00:00

I am on the left because I have left-wing values.

Being anti-male is not a left-wing value, so we need to expose those who have abandoned actual egalitarianism.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2022-06-22T02:21:15+00:00

Because I don't want to throw the leftist baby out with the feminist bathwater. I believe in leftist principles. Plus, most of the ways that feminists seek to undermine us are actually conservative, relying on traditionalist rhetoric of men as savage beasts who need the gentle, civilizing influence of women to become fully human. The left and its values are not the feminists' to take from us.

danmilligan · 2022-06-22T02:49:54+00:00

Anything that's fundamentally against half the world's population just simply can't be that way long term. This is a phase they're going through while they experiment with eliminating gender, and when they eventually figure out that this is impossible, they will eventually come to appreciate men again.

Also, maybe it's the circles you're running in. Liberals, for sure, but there's no reason for the actual left to be anti male, and much of it really isn't. Jacobin for instance has no whiff of it whatsoever, and neither does a lot of the other left content I consume.

PandaFoo1 · 2022-06-22T00:47:18+00:00

Yeah it feels like that a lot. Being consistent with your values or trying to stand up for yourself just makes you a target for people who can’t handle someone having different viewpoints. Hard not to feel disposable when you’re forced to walk on eggshells around those people or risk being ostracised.

MelissaMiranti · 2022-06-22T00:41:00+00:00

Because you believe in the principles, even if not the people.

EndHlts · 2022-06-22T13:52:34+00:00

Both the left and the right have a lot of anti-male elements, the left just has louder ones, and the right's anti male stuff is less explicit.

I just don't interact with anti-male leftists and their spaces. Unfortunately this leaves very little of leftist spaces to interact with at all.

bkrugby78 · 2022-06-22T03:08:51+00:00

I self id as "center left." People who are true left, ie, people who advocate for socialist ideas, you don't really see too much anti-male stuff. I'm no Marxist, but for them it's more about class, as in, everyone together.

The anti-male stuff you see, which people on the right call "leftism" is actually neoliberalism. There is nothing left wing about it. It gets confusing because people will say they are left wing, but they are using a bastardized version of it.

IME, those who identify as "Marxist" don't get too much into the weeds about this gender stuff or about pitting men vs women. They recognize the value of both, which is part of why I am in this sub. The goal is more about egalitarianism, true equality of the sexes, not a situation where one has power over the other.

OopsiPoopsi75 · 2022-06-22T15:13:49+00:00

Because being left is more than just pop feminist identity politics bs.

Imo real leftism is about class solidarity and economical reform that favors the worker.

Leftism is also about the rights of the marginalized, too. But that is not tantamount to uppity boutique Leftists that scree about shit on social media like its actual advocacy and activism.

AvoidPinkHairHippos · 2022-06-22T00:36:39+00:00

You're not wrong OP. This is one of the reasons why I'm no longer calling myself liberal or leftist.

Instead, I call myself egalitarian, or gender egalitarian. In fact, I usually add the follow up "instead of feminist", which almost inevitably leads to counterreplies from feminist posters.

I've become better at debating them, and as long as they're reasonably good faith posters (they exist!) , I try to de-convert them and encourage them to embrace egalitarianism. If they're bad faith posters, that's my chance to show the audience (anyone else reading) why modern Western feminists is so bad faith

literally_adog · 2022-06-22T02:06:09+00:00

i think the people who truly hate men are a vocal minority, but i think there’s a larger group of people on the left who:

conflate being male with being conservative (i.e. assuming that men are the ones who want to overturn Roe V. Wade when in reality almost exactly 50% of the people who want to overturn Roe are women)
don’t understand/think that traditionally men’s gender roles may place them above women in society, but they are still strict and that strictness is harmful and worth addressing
don’t understand/think that advocating for men doesn’t mean putting men above women, it means making sure we destroy men’s gender roles as well as women‘s

And when it comes to gender issues, the left may be a little flawed but the right is in the damn stone age, so i know which side i’d choose

Cunari · 2022-06-22T02:06:35+00:00

Is Bernie Sanders anti-male? What about Robert reich?

TintelFroot · 2022-06-22T07:04:22+00:00

I'm not abandoning my beliefs just because some people are being mean to me.

Man_of_culture_112 · 2022-06-22T05:13:10+00:00

This is an issue for the West in general. I don't see this in other places (I'm talking about socialists, communists etc). You will see this misandry in centrist and right wing circles also (Just not as childish and brazen). The issue is that feminism (which is just a distorted modern version of chivalry) pervades Western political circles not just the left. Your politics should not change.

TomsRedditAccount1 · 2022-06-22T09:59:41+00:00

If pro-male people leave the Left, then the Left will trend more towards anti-male.

Don't exacerbate the very issue you're complaining about.

Tedfordshire · 2022-06-22T10:47:11+00:00

People who are actually advocate irl for leftist politics, e.g. actual socialists, generally don't participate in gender politics. They're more focused on the "bigger picture"

MazerTag · 2022-06-22T05:10:27+00:00

I'd still rather eat the cold turd sandwich that is establishment moderate Democrats than gobble up the hot diarrhea dog with piss poutine that is Trumpist republicanism.

Algoresball · 2022-06-22T23:04:52+00:00

The right isn’t any better. They don’t want equality they want us all to be trapped in traditional gender roles where men work 70 he weeks

Call_Me_Daily · 2022-06-23T00:23:04+00:00

Various communities, political dispositions, and personality frameworks all have tendencies towards particular flaws and particular insights.

I speak as a very conservative (though increasingly more libertarian) individual. I joined this group because I am aware of many ongoing men's issues and I noticed an influx of high-quality posts, with links and resources, from this sub.

This problem OP speaks of is very clear and present, but I would argue, that the right has a fundamental flaw of also curtailing men's wellbeing due to traditional ways of thinking; even as a traditionalist myself.

The key is to make yourself into the most sophisticated, informed and moral person possible and realize that political affiliation often mirrors certain psychological traits. Left and Right are both valuable and important, as dissenting voices to the other's shortcomings. One of the biggest problems facing political discourse in this day and age is the inability of people to form nuanced opinions, and no insight into the function of disagreement.

2022-06-23T07:48:51+00:00

Because right wing values don't generally promote egalitarianism.

helloiseeyou2020 · 2022-06-22T02:09:09+00:00

Because the military-industrial and prison-industrial complexes, the death penalty, shutting down social safety nets, and other right wing policies hurt men far more than mean words

NimbleNautiloid · 2022-06-22T02:38:55+00:00

Anarchist spaces aren't really like this in my experience at all.

tiredfromlife2019 · 2022-06-22T02:04:09+00:00

Indeed Bro, indeed.

As a male. the Left despises you and only see's you as a tool to serve it but a tool that must be supressed.

Not saying that Right Wing is on men's side either. But this post is about the Left.

Interesting_Doubt_17 · 2022-06-22T10:36:01+00:00

Because 'the Left' is not some specific social group/movement as if it was a club or something.

You can still hold left-leaning ideas while not associating yourself with some stupid individuals who also happen to be leftists/liberals

SexEleven · 2022-06-22T11:30:47+00:00

They are not the left. Don’t let them win. You are referring to identitarian neoliberals. In my experience, the more materialist, the less identitarian, so I’m curious who these so called communists are who hate men so much. Also, labels are bullshit for most people. Many people are not principled in how they label their beliefs and treat the labels more like belonging to cliques based on pop understandings, not scholarly understandings. So ignore those fools. Only join campaigns you believe in, only vote for candidates you believe in, only say things you believe are true, etc. It’s ok if you don’t have one consistent home atm. I think the Bernie left in the US was/is good about not being stupid identitarians. If you want a podcast, check out This Is Revolution. They are Marxian, dialectical materialists who want to unite the working class across racial and gender lines. They intellectually destroy neoliberal identitarianism with a big focus on the role of elite Black politics (they are mostly Black - not that that matters, it would just be weird if they were not Black and had that focus).

insane_gravy · 2022-06-22T17:32:08+00:00

Is this true? Is the contemporary communist left anti-male?

Also a communist here.

This is incorrect. Communism is a class-first ideology. Identity politics of any stripe, including the gender focused identity politics that contemporary girlboss feminists advocate, is a fundamentally reactionary form of politics. Anyone you see who is claiming to be a communist while advocating any kind of misandry or misogyny either is ignorant of theory or is a fed. The latter especially is common, the CIA employed people like Gloria Steinem.

Either way, these people are wreckers. They are not representatives of what communists advocate for.

Blauwpetje · 2022-06-22T15:14:12+00:00

Maybe the left is something from the past. One can applaud ‘liberty, equality, fraternity’ without feeling related to any leftist movement. I do. The main reason I still visit and more or less support left-wing groups like this sub, is that I don’t want the hatred for, and finally probably the demise of wokeism, result in a victory for the populist right. PS lately I reread the Communist Manifesto and frankly, I thought it a rather muddled text, except for the brilliant analysis of the revolutionary role of the bourgeoisie.

RhinoNomad · 2022-06-22T04:01:15+00:00

Because being a man is a fraction of what the left represents.

The left, broadly speaking, represents a push for equality and dismantling popular hierarchies. You can be pro-male and argue for egalitarianism and equality for all genders and those who don't do this are either upholding the current hierarchies or reaching to establish a new one.

skllyskullstyle · 2022-06-22T02:06:56+00:00

I hate the extreme left, but i dont think the whole left is man hating just like feminism.

fizzydr1nk · 2022-06-24T16:18:23+00:00

Because feminism is just one small element that occupies left spaces which is not inherently left or right. There are vile attitudes within every camp but that should cause a crisis of faith because leftism is set a morals, perspectives and modes of action completely separate from misandry.

DaoScience · 2022-06-22T09:26:03+00:00

I am center right but it has the left and especially the far left has always felt anti male to me. I personally would not be able to put up with the way I see men treated in far left groups even if it was my politics. I'd just write instead and not socialize in order to avoid most of the shaming/controlling etc.

infinitofluxo · 2022-06-22T09:48:02+00:00

Cause being against the poor is still worse than sexism against men.

Aimless-Nomad · 2022-06-22T09:18:49+00:00

Or be like me who thinks both parties are full of shit.

ThunderClap448 · 2022-06-22T06:48:19+00:00

Because our ideals match more with the left than the right? We want to have men's rights, not to just take away women's rights. That is fucking stupid and anyone who thinks that's okay isn't a rights advocate of any sorts.

PFfounder · 2022-06-22T08:15:23+00:00

The left itself is not the problem, Marxism is destroying leftists by making them think that oppressions is everywhere and that it is justified to hate "who has it better".

WeEatBabies · 2022-06-22T10:00:54+00:00

Hating men because of their gender is not the left, it's the right, and historians will not be kind!

lorganna · 2024-11-08T06:10:53+00:00

I worry that you may have found yourself in something of an echo-chamber, or even just a loop of consuming a lot of rage bait about leftists. But the feminist movement (excluding radfems like JK Rowling) actively works to benefit men. dismantling cultural stereotypes around men and women helps men. There are plenty of leftist spaces, both online and in real-life, where people understand and agree with that. There are certainly changes that need to be made about some of the rhetoric that is thrown around, but at a policy and cultural level there really isn't that much "anti-male" sentiment

ShelSilverstain · 2022-06-22T02:07:24+00:00

Because the Right hates women, minorities, gay people (especially gay men), they're anti-intellectual, against corporate accountability, against reproductive rights, anti worker rights, etc etc etc

The left courting man haters harms my life much less than the rest of it

And if you believe the left is communist, you should get a brain scan

2022-06-22T09:38:55+00:00

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MachoManShark · 2022-06-22T10:18:59+00:00

tbh, i think the feminist positions held by radical leftits (marxists and anarchists) is something they picked up from liberals. like, their primary focus is on class (as it should be) but they do realize that something's fucked with gender, so they pick up the ready-made liberal non-materialist feminism and basically don't question it because they don't care that much about gender aside from queer liberation, and holding those opinions lets them get along better with libs.

anyway, that's not really a data-backed theory or anything, just the vibes i get from being in leftist spaces and seeing how much or how little gender is talked about with or without libs in the mix. i kinda used to be the same way, standard issue baby communist, but my own experiences as a man with traditionally 'women's' issues (i was raped by a woman as a young boy) really showed me how little feminists as a group care about issues rather than complaining about men, which, of course, got only more clear as i learned more about gender issues in a better reasoned, better supported way.

i think that kind of realization is just not that common among people who don't have big material pressures leading them in that direction the way i did.

DukeRukasu · 2022-06-22T11:07:20+00:00

Communists anti-male??? How?? Is this some crazy american idea??

I am a proud marxist, that simps for working class men (and women ofc) like all commies should do!

I dont like true scotsman arguments, but these people are not real communists. They are neoliberals with che guevara shirts!

Edit: thanks for the downvotes, starting to think, that this sub is not really left at all

hangfrog · 2022-06-22T08:11:23+00:00

This is a stupid take. Being left wing is a political opinion, and quite subjective depending on where you are. "The left" is not a virulently anti-male movement by any definition. There aren't even "Left" spaces. Its all just people. You seem to fall into the same problematic "us vs them" thinking as those you describe as persecuting you. Go talk to a counsellor, stop reading the news, its largely bullshit anyway. Go talk to some actual people.

2022-06-22T01:18:00+00:00

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madonnamanpower · 2022-06-22T10:36:04+00:00

This conversation has always perplexed me. Because the logical conclusion of feminism is to liberate men from the patriarchy as well. after all the patriarchy is just the name for societal brain washing of telling men that they have to be x to be a man. And often that violates natural masculinity. I'm not entirely sure why feminists lost this thread.

I'm not sure how to put it hope that makes some sense.

my_own_hero · 2022-06-22T16:49:04+00:00

Their two main reasons.

Because of the stereotypes, feminity is seen as "caregiving, sharing, etc" and masculinity is seen as "aggression, private ownership, etc". Leftists are exposured to these stereotypes as well. So they are likely to associate their enemies (facism, private ownership, etc) with masculinity and men.

Parts of Feminism also play a role by insisting on traditional stereotypes. for example the "cultural essentialist ecofeminists" like Stephanie Leland argue that traditionally femine values are superior and more practical in term of saving the environment, on other hand they introduce masculine values as sth harmful to environment. These ideas are somehow welcomed by some leftists like green socialists, and make them see masculinity and men as enemy.

Most of richest people are male and you know leftists are known for their generalizing attributes.

2022-07-06T16:58:35+00:00

I have been bummed out by this too, though not specially on men's issues. But if we are honest many left spaces are extremely intolerant. Agreeing 99% of issues may very well not be good enough in a lot of places. It really does chill any sense of comradery when someone just waiting to denounce you.

McGauth925 · 2022-07-07T19:42:46+00:00

...because, in just about every other area, I agree much more with leftist positions.

Krausewitz · 2022-07-17T08:58:24+00:00

People should have healthcare regardless of their political or social beliefs. No one should go hungry, or lack shelter, etc. for their ideas or their in capabilities. That’s why I’m a socialist.

Misandry doesn’t change any of that.

2023-08-09T19:20:03+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Why be on the Left when modern leftism is a virulently anti-male movement?
Author	Critical-Past847
Upvotes	87
Comments	83
Date	June 22, 2022 12:25 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/vhrtyi/why_be_on_the_left_when_modern_leftism_is_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/why-be-on-the-left-when-modern-leftism-is-a.1120516 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120516

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