What rights do you believe a man is entitled to in this situation?

RichardPurchase · 2023-11-27T23:16:34+00:00

You’re never entitled to directing what a woman does with her body in these circumstances, including forcing her to give birth.

Similarly, a man who legally renounces involvement in a pregnancy, prior to childbirth, should never be coerced to support that child once born.

Seem fair?

One of these is protected by law (and in some cases constitution) in many western countries, the other is a “fringe idea” denounced in mainstream media and not even proposed as law anywhere (as far as I know).

Rad_Knight · 2023-11-27T21:18:28+00:00

I don't think a man can be entitled to a woman carrying a child to term.

This is one inequality that I think we can't get around. If he wants the child, but she doesn't, it's aborted. If she wants it, but he doesn't, it's hers to raise alone.

refunned · 2023-11-27T21:09:35+00:00

Men should not have a right to coerce a woman to deliver. Whether they should be responsible for child support in certain situations is another thing.

michaelpaoli · 2023-11-28T05:07:12+00:00

would it be reasonable, in your opinion, for me to insist she deliver the baby and give to me... the biological father.

Nope. Her body, her choice. You want a kid, you adopt or find a willing host or carrier ... or you wait for technology to advance such that it can be implanted in you - then maybe all you need is an egg donor.

When she can implant the egg in you and it's your pregnancy ... then it'll be your choice to carry or not.

And what pregnancy does to a body and the risks - all quite non-trivial.

What rights do you believe I am entitled to?

You get to voice your opinion, etc., but you don't get to decide ... not so long as you're not the one carrying it.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2023-11-27T22:43:04+00:00

It would be a pretty foolish for her to deliver and surrender all parental rights since in my jurisdiction you could file for and expect to receive child support from her for 21 years even if you promised otherwise. I don't think you can create some kind of contract where you take on any and all financial responsibilities she may otherwise have since the law sees it as the child's right and not the parents. Parental rights you can (visitation, custody) but not potential child support obligations.

MushroomMade · 2023-11-28T10:26:21+00:00

I doubt that arrangement would work without financial compensation for the pregnancy, that or just find a surrogate.

throwaway0408800 · 2023-11-28T14:01:35+00:00

Woman entitled to abort. Man entitled to waive responsibility.

child0light · 2023-11-28T17:34:30+00:00

Unfortunately men are SOL in the whole procreation situation no matter how much science or rhetoric or analogies we all discuss. Pregnancy destroys bodies. Only one sex goes through it. And she doesn't have to destroy her body/use up all her nutrients/sacrifice 9 months of her life/upend her lifestyle if she doesn't want to. There's just no male equivalent to it.

Adopt a kid and be dad if the guy in the scenario wants one so desperately. There are millions just in the US who already exist and would kill to be wanted. The obsession with lineage and bloodline is just ego. Values and skill sets can all be taught. Hobbies can be nurtured into passions. That's all a product of the mind, not the dick.

mrmensplights · 2023-11-28T03:27:19+00:00

No, the baby grows in her body and can't live without her. If you believe in bodily autonomy then you have to logically extend the sole right of abortion to the mother. There is no such thing as a pregnancy with no physical risk and a woman's body and mind go through many changes during pregnancy and they will be forever altered.

However, as a consequence of having no right to infringe on the bodily autonomy of women while also have parentage, men should be afforded the right to a paper abortion. It is the fair and necessary corollary to abortion rights.

randyoftheinternet · 2023-11-27T21:44:56+00:00

There's no conciliation there mate, your choices have consequences.

bluehorserunning · 2023-11-28T03:36:28+00:00

Pregnancy is always harmful and risky to the woman. A co-worker of mine, on her third, no-risk pregnancy, had a placental abruption during delivery to and almost died. She was 5 minutes from the OR, and still took 6 units of blood and an emergency hysterectomy to be stabilized.

Luckily, she and the baby both survived… but that was on a delivery that should have been as routine as could be.

And that doesn’t even touch the nausea, the back pain, the increased risk of strokes, the lifetime increased risk of autoimmune disorders and diabetes, the pain, the sleeplessness, and the potential of having her abdomen cut open even for a pregnancy that doesn’t go wrong. My mom has permanent nerve damage down there, from two deliveries that went like clockwork.

ElbowStrike · 2023-11-27T23:57:10+00:00

Where is the growing future child physically located?

More-Bluebird5805 · 2023-11-28T01:09:59+00:00

Why don’t you just buy and egg and get a surrogate?

Aromatic_Ad5473 · 2023-11-27T21:32:10+00:00

No. You’re asking her to go through months of physical and emotion stress - that’s not how bodily autonomy works. It’s a shitty situation but you can force or coerce her to carry a child for nine months. There’s also never “no physical risk”. Even if she doesn’t have any complications, her body will change as a result.

CarHungry · 2023-11-27T21:55:14+00:00

You have the right to grieve this hypothetical future you invisioned. Don't know why you'd think you're "entitled" to use someone else's body for your own personal benefit without their consent.

Get a surrogate, or go donate sperm.

ElJJTP · 2023-11-28T10:39:38+00:00

Sadly you have none. I mean that’s the way it is. We can argue and if you are Uber religious or in a red state you might be able to sue to get her to go through with the pregnancy and say abortions are banned but in reality it’s her body. The key is not not be with someone who doesn’t share the same values. At the end of the day you lose all say when you 💦 at that point it’s all her and you are just responsible for her decisions. If you want a kid, head overseas like my buddy and get a surrogate. No need to deal with the mother. Just you and your kid.

Jake0024 · 2023-11-28T16:22:02+00:00

Zero rights. If you want a kid, there are thousands of kids who need to be adopted. You can't force someone to be pregnant for 9 months and give birth just because you had sex.

Pitiful_Row_8253 · 2023-11-29T05:50:16+00:00

would it be reasonable, in your opinion, for me to insist she deliver the baby and give to me... the biological father.

No. It's her body and her choice. Pregnancy is no joke, it's hard on the body and mind.

McFeely_Smackup · 2023-11-28T01:14:52+00:00

If a man can be physically incarcerated for 18 years for refusing a child he doesn't want, then a woman can be forced to carry one for 9 months.

Ideally we wouldn't do either of these things, but equality would say do both or neither

It's not logically consistent to say it's unreasonable for a women considering what we do to men every single day

BanceLutters · 2023-11-27T21:42:54+00:00

A child's brain starts to develop during pregnancy and is affected by what the mother is experiencing. If she didn't want to give birth to a child, it will be a terrible time for her and I assume it won't be too well for the child either

conspirized · 2023-11-27T21:26:24+00:00

Nope, I'm 100% of the belief that women should be the sole decision maker (so far as doctors and the law are concerned) when it comes to abortion.

As someone that has had a kid I wanted to keep aborted I completely understand how much that situation fucking sucks, but at the end of the day our role is to deposit the fertilizer... she gets to decide whether or not she's gonna tend the garden.

I do think we should get rid of child support, though... or at the very least allow men to sign away rights and, therefore, gain immunity to child support. Just like we don't get a say in whether or not she aborts, we don't get a say in whether or not the child is carried to term.... so we shouldn't be obligated to pay for it. It's a bullshit system in every way, shape, and form.

Far-Salt-6946 · 2023-11-28T00:17:17+00:00

Zero. It is what it is, life's unfair.

iainmf · 2023-11-28T01:09:39+00:00

Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women

Article 16

States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to eliminate discrimination against women in all matters relating to marriage and family relations and in particular shall ensure, on a basis of equality of men and women:

…

(e) The same rights to decide freely and responsibly on the number and spacing of their children and to have access to the information, education and means to enable them to exercise these rights;

hwjk1997 · 2023-11-28T02:44:55+00:00

You don't have a choice if you want to keep it and she doesn't. If she doesn't want to keep it or if she does, you should be allowed to legally forgo responsibility before the baby is born.

imperator285 · 2023-11-28T00:29:04+00:00

I vote no, for a simple reason. It's relatively easy for you to knock up some other chick who wants to have your baby. Case closed.

EsqueStudios · 2023-11-27T21:08:37+00:00

I'm not sure where you're from or what legal "rights" you have there... I would bet that you're probably screwed in this situation though, as sad as it is. This is a situation I've thought about myself being in countless times, and I just keep coming to the conclusion that I just have to hope it doesn't happen to me.

I think fathers should be allowed to put a stop to the abortion of their child. I think you should have the right to do that. I don't believe in most of the west you will actually have that right.

I hope this is a hypothetical situation and not a real situation for you.

TrilIias · 2023-11-28T01:08:40+00:00

This is the easy part of being pro-life, I don't really care about the father's rights in this situation because I don't think the mother should be able to kill the child either way. It does put pro-choicers in an uncomfortable situation though. Imagine having to say that a father should just have to allow his child to be murdered, and there's nothing he can do about it. Sick.

Due-Struggle-9492 · 2023-11-27T21:44:36+00:00

I’m of the opinion that the woman’s right to bodily autonomy stop when there is a child, a separate human body with its own autonomy and unique DNA structure. As far as legal rights are concerned, I haven’t a clue and it is very state dependent and you’ll likely have to shell out big time for a lawyer if you don’t want to lose the child. I think it’s reasonable and fair that if a father wants to assume the responsibility then you should be allowed your kid and they should be carried to term. There were two adults, they had sex and knew it was a possibility. If one doesn’t want to be a parent and the other does cool, but don’t make the child suffer just because one parent doesn’t want to be a parent and finds life inconvenient. If you didn’t want a kid, you shouldn’t have had sex. Abortion also increases future pregnancies success rates, especially if a woman has multiple. What rights do I believe you are entitled to is another matter. I believe you should be entitled to your flesh and blood, DNA. You are ready, willing and able to raise that child if need be, mom don’t need to be in the picture if she don’t want. The child is made up of two DNA structures and is half your child, which means you should get half of the say on the choices made for your child. Mom doesn’t deserve 100% unless dad is a total deadbeat and not involved at all. That’s my opinion, take it or leave it.

Early_Inspector988 · 2023-11-27T22:19:21+00:00

You can't not expect physical risk to the woman. Each pregnancy causes damage. It's not an option. Expecting her to do that damage in order to be a baby delivery system is unreasonable.

Mantequilla_Stotch · 2023-11-28T01:08:06+00:00

there is always physical risk. You don't get a say in this situation. Just like if you are with someone who wants kids but you want to get snipped, they don't get a say. The most you can do is find someone who wants to have a child with you.

Mac_McAvery · 2023-11-28T02:20:54+00:00

I believe in paper abortion rights for men. I’m going to say No as you’re invading her free right.

creamer143 · 2023-11-28T01:24:16+00:00

You can make the argument but don't cross the line into coercion. Even if you believe that abortion is killing a human life and therefore immoral, the law might not be on your side. The best you can do is offer to take the child; promise to leave with the kid, you will not ask anything more of her, you will never contact her again, and she will never see you again so long as she doesn't kill your baby. But, if abortion is legal wherever you are, she has the right to kill your baby no matter what you say. This is why you shouldn't be having sex with people you're not in a serious relationship with and both of you must be on the same page about children.

calentureca · 2023-11-28T05:53:08+00:00

I believe it is 50 50. The deciding vote goes to the woman though as she is carrying it. Women have died in pregnancy, and it takes a toll on the body.

Relax though, you can have a baby with many other willing chicks.

espositojoe · 2023-11-28T00:04:50+00:00

The father's rights should be respected; the mother should not have the ability to kill the child unilaterally.

AChromaticHeavn · 2023-11-27T23:17:04+00:00

You are entitled to raise your child. I believe the mother should have the child and sign rights over to you.

LovelyBlossom02 · 2023-11-27T23:27:35+00:00

No, the product is the mother and she should have all the final say in it. A pregnancy without complications/risk is almost if not completely impossible. And on top of that, going through it all to at the end just give away that what cost so much to have.

Tbh, the most important thing is the amount of things that can and will go wrong with the pregnancy, and most are things that last for life. I'll list a few: -Her body will change, no going back. -She'll literally have to push a whole baby out of her vagina and rip it (episiotomy is not optional/when needed anymore, so she'll get it no matter what). -The epidural thing hurts FOR LIFE (I found out not so long ago about this one) Those are things that happen, no matter what, now with the risks/complications: -She could lose all her teeth, yes all of them. -Going blind. -Permanent hip/lower back problems. -Permanent hair loss. -Loosing all movement hips and below, or even neck and below. -Dying -Permanent diabetes -Permanent hypertension -She can get her ribs dislocated -Uterine prolapse -Kidney stones -Psychosis -Stroke -Paralysis

And there's so much more. These things don't always happen, but are so very common.

And yes, this should also be paired with child support immunity if it's the other way around.

The best thing is to have all this clear and talk about it with your partner, asking each other whether you want children or not and what would be their thoughts if there was an accidental pregnancy.

I've talked about with my bf, I don't discard it, but for rn children is a big no and if it happened I'd get an abortion, he agreed, but over all, he agreed it was my decision cause I'd be the one carrying it.

BowForThanos · 2023-11-28T00:37:40+00:00

The 9 months of labour was implied acceptance when having unprotected sex. The same as how a man has implied acceptance that he needs to financially support a child for 18 years if he has unprotected sex. Either both male and female have to accept what happens when a woman falls pregnant or neither do.

WeEatBabies · 2023-11-27T22:08:39+00:00

None, child is part of woman's body!

Get someone else pregnant.

ehWoc · 2023-11-27T21:39:12+00:00

The woman's organs are going to tear apart and she is going to suffer permanent damage from the childbirth. There is no way around the woman's bodily autonomy. Find a woman who wants to have a child with you.

Regular_NormalGuy · 2023-11-27T22:53:46+00:00

Most of you guys will hate me for this but the baby has rights, too. If it's very early and just a piece of meat in the womb, I would be ok with an abortion but as soon as there is a heart beat, there is life. And taking medical risks, both a pregnancy and an abortion has some risks. I know this is more complicated than this but everyone is talking only about the mother that has and should have full control over her body but I believe this autonomy ends with another life that biologically depends on her. I know I know you may throw the first rock now.

LONEWOLFF150 · 2023-11-28T00:53:50+00:00

Because women have the right to keep or quite literally KILL their baby but you don't have a right to have any say on whether to keep it or not, you don't even have the right to abandon it either. Either way the system is 100% against you and they'll bill you every step of the way.

In fact you could even be sued to pay for the abortion lol Let's look at all the scenarios, let's ignore the hypothetical emotional and rights stuff and what not while we're at it so we can think more clearly.

Let's say she has the abortion against your wishes to keep the child, in a perfect world, you just got dealt the lottery for a get out of jail free card because...

If she kept the child, she'd either A) give you custody of the child and be done with it or B) kept the child and kept you away from it while billing you the consecutive child support every step of the way.
Either way she's gonna do whatever conveniences her BEST without much effort because she knows she holds all the cards and you have none and guess what, she's gonna win a good 97% of the time and even if she's losing, she will cling to society and they'll fight for her against you until they see you in the dirt for daring to want to have a "right" or even an opinion against a woman because obviously "women suffer more than men" so of course they're gonna laugh in your face when you ask for leniency or decency 🤷‍♂️

What you can feasibly and realistically do is wash your hands clean of this burden of a woman and be done with it and move on with your life because that's pretty much all you can do.

In my personal Christian background and speaking and dealing with young men in adult youth groups and everything I've seen this sad scenario a couple times where a guy jumps the gun with a girl and gets her pregnant and then he begins to get excited about being a father and everything until he finds out she went and got an abortion behind his back.

It's a strange but powerful form of depression I've seen in these young men to realize their first born has been killed and aborted. A lot of guys really have no idea how common abortions are now and it's incredible how guys are completely oblivious to not having boys anymore (because women abort male babies much more than female) and it's even more mind blowing to think how many times you could have been a father and didn't even know it.

sharksville · 2023-11-28T07:39:09+00:00

The fact that you share half of the DNA is what give you rights as well. At this point she can make it about her being raped by you, there will be that question “I’d it was rape, why didn’t she report that earlier instead of waiting for a while and doing something now that she’s pregnant?” It’s not her body her choice, you share half of that child’s DNA.

kuzism · 2023-11-28T13:32:29+00:00

Offer to marry her and let her be a stay at home mom with a nanny and you will pay her a good salary. If after a few months she still doesn't want to be a mother you could buy her out for 10 thousand dollars a year for 10 years with the option to come back at any time.

knumberate · 2023-11-27T23:44:49+00:00

If you offer to house and care for her daily needs, Healthcare, etc. And she still says no. To bad bro. How would you feel if rolls were reversed?

LittleHamNerd · 2023-11-28T07:27:22+00:00

Reading some comments here, most saying that men in this situation have no choice and that they don’t matter whatsoever. Did I accidentally join a feminists subreddit again? Or do these people think that having a child impacts the woman only?

DaJosuave · 2023-11-28T08:53:56+00:00

Just avoid women who see abortion as an "option" in any given situation.

I will also add women who get very desperate and lose their minds when life gets tough. Even if they say they have version principles like not aborting their children, they might get desperate and do it.

The responsible thing to do is not even date women who are ok with abortion.

Spins13 · 2023-11-27T21:08:26+00:00

I would not recommend getting a child on your own. Even with 2 people it is quite rough if you don’t have much family to help.

I think I would side with you though if you are truly committed and seem to know what you are doing

sgtm7 · 2023-11-28T14:45:57+00:00

No rights. She has every right to kill the baby, regardless of what you say or want.

Alexis_J_M · 2023-11-30T15:00:03+00:00

Pregnancy ALWAYS entails physical risk.

Her right not to carry an unwanted pregnancy, not to be permanently tied to you through this child, not to bring an unwanted life into this world, far outweighs your desire to be a father.

And plenty of women have gotten stuck with far more than they expected when a "I want sole custody" man changed his mind 6 months later, or when the bonding hormones kicked in, or when the "zero obligation" parenting contract they signed turned out to be not legally binding.

Title	What rights do you believe a man is entitled to in this situation?
Author	Angle_Tiny
Upvotes	48
Comments	146
Date	November 27, 2023 8:54 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/185dekl/what_rights_do_you_believe_a_man_is_entitled_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-rights-do-you-believe-a-man-is-entitled-to-in.1239500 https://theredarchive.com/post/1239500

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