Do BP Women actually believe you can be truly egalitarian and 50-50 with children?

anon1029436292 · 2024-01-05T04:37:24+00:00

Firstly, Relationships are NEVER 50/50, because people fluctuate. There are periods where either partner will be giving more to the relationship and that’s okay, hell that can fluctuate on a daily basis. When someone’s unwell for example it may be more like 20/80. When someone is going through an intense period at work/in education or when they may have grief the effort from each partner will change.

Child rearing is one of those periods in a relationship.

However there is a lot men CAN do but don’t always that will really help to at least somewhat get closer to equal - be there for mum and make sure she is taken care of (food shop done, laundry done, meals created etc) so she can focus on baby without having to do the chores she would normally be doing - be an advocate for her when she’s tired and worn up, don’t invite everyone around immediately post partum, you be the one to tell people they have to wait. If people come round you are hosting, not her. - take an active role in child rearing. Past about the 1st year you can be completely equal (although I genuinely can’t think of an example of a family I know where this is the case), but during the breastfeeding phase this is kinds impossible so support where you can e.g. wake up for feeds to ensure mum is getting good chunks of quality sleep.

toasterchild · 2024-01-05T05:02:33+00:00

Often it's about the attitude and effort more than the exact split. Is this treated like a teamwork thing or does it become she's the default parent and he's just a sometimes helping her.

shestammie · 2024-01-05T04:47:28+00:00

You’re misconstruing the concept of egalitarianism, which probably isn’t a good descriptor for relationships anyway because it doesn’t mean people doing the same amount of work.

I don’t think blue pill women believe in utopian relationships and are happy to have partners that willingly invest more when required (like during pregnancy and the postpartum period) and otherwise invest about half.

sublimemongrel · 2024-01-05T04:52:53+00:00

No but you can get close. You cannot make pregnancy and child birth and breast feeding 50/50 obviously, but childrearing/domestic chores, sure you can. I mean at least in effort and principle not exactly 50/50 that’s impossible. I’m a mother of two under five. Blue pill. Also currently the breadwinner.

I could look at the burden of pregnancy, child bearing and breast feeding as something he owes me for, but I don’t so

fakingandnotmakingit · 2024-01-05T04:44:17+00:00

Pregnancy and giving birth will never be 50/50

Breastfeeding will never be 50/50

Everything else can be.

If the man isn't pulling his weight in unpaid labour outside of those 3 things, dump him. He ain't worth it

Specific_Praline_362 · 2024-01-05T06:01:22+00:00

It's almost always women who do more and meanwhile, it's almost always men who think they are doing more.

doggiedoc2004 · 2024-01-05T05:17:16+00:00

I’m a woman and am in a very egalitarian relationship. Stuff is never 50/50 exactly because in dual income houses there will be different tasks and chores that make more sense for one person to do than the other. At times my husband stayed home w the kids. He doesn’t anymore but he still does most of the cooking because he loves cooking. And yes I bore the brunt of two childbirths and maternity leave. But because my hubs is an egalitarian and loves that I’m a professional w a career, and does his share w the kids and the house, sometimes more than me, I never put that(pregnancy, birth and maternity leave) in the tally sheet or score card.

Now I absolutely can understand when women do have to add that stuff on the Spousal Tally Sheet. Because some men vastly underperform and undervalue women in the household front.

EulenWatcher · 2024-01-05T05:08:24+00:00

Egalitarian means we treat each other as partners and not subordinates. Splitting chores and childcare 50/50 isn't always possible and there are some things you can't split at all like pregnancy and childbirth, it's expected. People adjust to it. Men often do more around the house while their partners are pregnant, they do their best to care for them etc. After giving birth a man can do a lot of childcare and chores around the house. He can't breastfeed, but he can cook food for everyone else, clean etc. He can do tummy rubs and night shifts with bottles. He also might be the one working while his partner is recovering. Neither of these options make this couple less egalitarian.

My husband and i are egalitarian and we have no kids. Ideally I wish he was the one staying at home with a bit older newborn-early toddler phase while I'd spend the first few months at home with a newborn. I'm sure he'll his best to take care and support me when I get pregnant and he'll be a wonderful father, not just a "mother's helper".

apresonly · 2024-01-05T05:11:29+00:00

yes and its the only way to raise healthy children

if you have to play a role in order to deserve love, your are teaching your kids they have to play a role in life, even if they don't fit into their gender role. they will know your love is dependent on them playing pretend.

its not difficult to be egalitarian and solve problems. most people like to cooperate in order to have a good relationship. we do this every day in our friendships and other peer relationships.

some people find it impossible to do this. those are the same people who are going to be complete shit at being the boss or completely toxic as the submissive party in a complementarian relationship.

> If BPW want to work and split finances, chores, bills, emotional support, sex, etc. - how do you not see that having a kid makes things uneven now?

i think the husband should set up a retirement account for the wife and the accounts so she is being compensated for this.

if i had a surrogate, i would have to pay them.

if i chose to financially support a partner, who was not making as much financially bc she was taking a flexible job to pick my/our kids up or taking on more of the life management stuff, i would want her to feel financially secure with or without me. that's what is fair. this should be an ongoing conversation about how you can make everyone happy and get their needs met as a team.

Sillysheila · 2024-01-05T05:19:30+00:00

You can’t.

I’m still blue pill. I disagree loads with red pill. However I’m very skeptical of the exact 50/50 utopia crowd because it rarely works out this way. Not even without kids. Just with all the chores and the need for them to be 100% 50/50. I think some people are now too obsessed with it and want to claim it’s a great injustice when say the wife does all the cooking and husband does all the cleaning. When from where I’m standing that looks equal.

The thing is men and women on average have different interests. While I feel most of the chores still shouldn’t fall on the woman if she isn’t a SAHM, I think fair distribution of approx. hours is much more important than “oh, X does all the Y, so sad!”.

I liked the idea of critiquing the labour divide in households years ago. Now I just feel like it’s getting borderline ridiculous. Someone can do most or all of something and be happy because their partner does a lot of things. It’s more about how much each partner spends time on things at home.

One exception I guess I have to this is: parenting. It is true that women have to breastfeed and carry the burden of being pregnant. That does make it uneven in terms of hours and investment.

But the extreme red pillers who think paternal input is not important or women should do all the parenting are insane. If you are a father, it is irresponsible to not parent at all like a 1950s dad or carry out childcare responsibilities just because you work. Yes even if your wife is SAHM.

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2024-01-05T06:34:46+00:00

Yes but this is an average. Every day isn’t 50/50, every chore isn’t 50/50, there will never be a truly equal split. But in my home I enjoy cooking and shopping so I take on those tasks. My fiancé does the dishes whenever he feels like it, takes out the trash, and has a side hustle he enjoys to pay an extra bill or two. I maintain the relationship Maintenence but he’s the one who plans dates and initiates intimacy more often. I’m usually the one driving to school or work or parent teacher conferences while he does a lot of the sports and homework stuff. He is someone who is more stern and helps him to grow and be a good man while I’m the soft landing and teach him about emotional maturity (when he isn’t learning by watching his father) and helping him be a good person. It’s 50/50 in the way it’s give and take and never someone always taking more than they’re giving - it’s 100% effort by both parties to be the person who is caring for and supporting the family. Some days I have bad pain and just need to nap. So he is the one up with the family, I order out dinner and he is responsible for everything else, mainly just being there to hang out and finish his half of the chores. But he has bad days he doesn’t feel like tossing a load of laundry in or wants to play videos games to 11pm so I take on the family and cooking and cleaning up.

50/50 may look different for every family. The point is to make sure neither partner is drowning. That invisible labor, emotional labor, household chores, childcare, work, and relationship maintenance is split in a way that feels fair to both people and if one person isn’t up to their fair share, the other pitches in because they know when the roles are reversed, they get the same treatment.

Unfortunately for most families, women are still doing the majority of invisible labor, emotional labor and relationship maintenance on top of the majority of childcare and household chores, because a man goes to work for 8 hours and comes home and believes his job is done. He worked his shift, he may “help” with dishes or the trash, but then he’s off to play a game or watch tv. It’s thankfully becoming more rare but still needs to be worked on. A great book to help with the division of labor is “fair play” by Eve Rodsky. And “equal partners” by Kate Mangino

ETA: the issue with RP ideology is prescribing these roles for people instead of describing the roles they want and prefer. RP says an “equal” relationship is a SAHM who takes on all of the invisible labor, emotional labor, relationship maintenance, childcare and has to look pretty doing it or she isn’t good - and a man needs to be a strong stoic provider who needs nothing from you except for sex and the entire management of the household and family. These prescribed gender roles are bs and hold no water when you see how an actual egalitarian relationship functions. Nothing in my relationship is “I’m the wife so I do x.” It’s always “I have more energy and do a more thorough job at x but he does y because he’s better at that. I enjoy b even if it is a little emotionally taxing but he is doing c because he finds joy in it. We both hate z so we switch on and off who does that one.”

Susiewoosiexyz · 2024-01-05T06:58:27+00:00

Obviously when a woman is pregnant and breastfeeding she’s doing more of the work. But when kids are a bit older there’s no reason things can’t be shared more equally.

However, I don’t think anyone expects it to be exactly equal. Just that each person does their fair share of work (both paid and unpaid) and gets their fair share of leisure time. This isn’t difficult to understand.

I think part of how things go awry when people have kids is because women typically stay home with babies for a while. In this time they fall into the “stay at home parent” role, doing everything for the kid and the house. The man goes back to work right away and his life barely changes. When the woman returns to paid work, the man has no idea what she’s been doing all this time and assumes he can carry on as normal. Suddenly she’s doing paid work AND all the childcare AND managing everything at home and she realises it’s impossible and starts to lose her mind. Meanwhile he’s over on r/deadbedrooms whining about how she won’t have sex with him anymore.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2024-01-05T07:29:14+00:00

No relationship is 50/50. My husband and myself have equal partnership but sometimes he does more shines I do more but it evens out

kalashhhhhhhh · 2024-01-05T17:47:16+00:00

Yes, I truly believe that. Other than pregnancy and the first year of the child's life (which is covered by paid maternity leave in my country), both parents are capable of working and parenting.

But even during the time of pregnancy and the first year, a man can still match his wife in effort- do more of chores, be her support...

Safinated · 2024-01-05T05:16:10+00:00

There’s nothing inherently illogical or impossible about it

I’ve seen what appears to be equal splits

And I know a good number of househusbands

TSquaredRecovers · 2024-01-05T13:25:18+00:00

I have managed to have an egalitarian marriage with my husband, even after we had our son 13 years ago. Yes, I alone endured pregnancy and childbirth, but aside from that, my husband and I split up the household chores and childcare. I only took two months off for maternity leave and returned to work full-time after that. My husband did a fantastic job of caring for our son every bit as much as I did, including feeding our son, changing diapers, and everything else that goes along with caring for a newborn and toddler. He was just as hands-on as I was.

Muskelmaus · 2024-01-05T11:34:37+00:00

Generally I'd say most normies don't do an awful lot of thinking for themselves.

The TV told me so it must be true!

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BusinessGarage2606 · 2024-01-05T09:13:11+00:00

Nothing is ever 50/50. But relationships can be done in a way that both parents have time for themselves and to rest everyday, so that nobody feel tired and not as themselves.

My friends’ has a marrige with kids that works this way. She has a four year old, three year old and not even a one year old. She also has time to paint everyday, goes out with friends and will go back to work because she wants to. How?

She never had to clean and cook after full night of carrying for crying kids. Her job is not seen as less important so it’s obvious that she deserves an hour a day for herself, just like her husband rests everyday after work.

She doesn’t have to do everything in the house just because she is currently on a maternity leave, because her husband understands that if she had to do all of this on her own, she would be working 24/7.

When she gave birth she didn’t clean or cook. Her only job was taking care of herself and her newborn so she could heal.

ratsareniceanimals · 2024-01-05T13:05:33+00:00

Egalitarian is an ideal to strive towards. The best relationships are 60-40, with each partner striving to be the 60 and trading off as needs fluctuate.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2024-01-05T14:20:05+00:00

No, I don't. However, I do believe it can be a damn sight closer than it is now.

alwaysright12 · 2024-01-05T16:12:18+00:00

The burden of pregnancy and childbirth can't be made equal.

The burden of child rearing absolutely can and should be.

Title	Do BP Women actually believe you can be truly egalitarian and 50-50 with children?
Author	Ok_Mathematician863
Upvotes	16
Comments	116
Date	January 5, 2024 4:29 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18yxyqa/do_bp_women_actually_believe_you_can_be_truly/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-bp-women-actually-believe-you-can-be-truly.1242295 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242295

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