Where does the idea that "sex is not a reward" come from?

Cultural-Ad-8486 · 2025-08-26T06:46:51+00:00

Where does the idea that "sex is not a reward" come from? While sex will be at least a reward for successful seductive actions Actually,...

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) 35 points36 points37 points 10 months ago (30 children) | Copy Link

Reward implies that there’s some kind of agreement between two parties: the one receiving the reward and the one giving it. Upon fulfilling the requirement, you get the reward you deserve.

Sex doesn’t work this way. There’s no agreement between men and women as groups of people that if men do something, women have to provide them with their “reward” they deserved. Basically, men who view sex as their rewards have covert contract and then get angry with women for not fulfilling the contract women have never agreed to.

If we aren’t talking about sex work, sex is an activity shared between people on their own volition and due to their own desire. People have sex because they want to be intimate with their partners, not necessarily because they want to reward them. Some couples do use sex as a reward whether because they have wrapped view of it or because they’re kinky like that, but it has to be stated explicitly. Expecting relationship or sex from someone because you were flirting with them doesn’t make sense - shoot your shot but don’t think you’re entitled to sex.

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No, I'm not wrong. The expectation here is that you don't sleep with bad men.

Again, you don't understand what I'm saying still for some reason.

Most gopniks don't get laid with decent women. The women they get are absolutely disgusting in most cases and no normal guy would go for them. Nobody else really wants those shalavas.

And again, the fact that these things happen, doesn't mean that they happen often and that there's no expectation. For example, long time ago there was an expectation that women (and men) don't sleep with other men before marriage. And sure, some did, but the expectation was there and it did affect the picture - many women were not promiscuous (still aren't, esp in Eastern Europe where slut shaming is alive and well and is still effective). Do you not understand how this works still and that it's not about every single woman?

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (35 children) | Copy Link

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. So if we agree sex plays an incentivizing role, can we agree that if women (on average) are choosing to have sex with men who display a specific set of characteristics A/B/C, and declining to have sex with men who display characteristics D/E/F, that women are contributing to/reinforcing/perpetuating a specific incentive structure (even if unintentionally) that encourages A/B/C characteristics in men and dissuades D/E/F characteristics?

Note: I am not saying women are responsible for everything men do (there are other incentives besides sex, as we both are well aware). Nor am I saying that women are to be morally condemned for their personal sexual preferences (no one can change what gets them off). I'm a supporter of the sexual revolution.

But the fact that women's aggregate preferences have impacts on how the majority of men choose to behave... which I think is what the OP was trying to get us to talk about... really can't be denied or treated as sociologically irrelevant.

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Sure, I agree with you. That's why I said "sociologically irrelevant" rather than "ethically irrelevant."

The point I am trying to make is that there's still a phenomenon that deserves to be talked about. I mean normally if there's a social structure or incentive pattern that incentivizes bad things, we discuss it, and try to manage it or ameliorate it (no, this does not mean we need to reverse the sexual revolution).

Let's look at this very thread: people were protesting over the word "reward" and whether or not such a word was accurate.... honestly this comes off as a way to avoid the topic by instead derailing the discussion into fine distinctions and linguistic precision. As opposed to actually confronting the issue - the aggregate/typical preferences women have for sexual partners create an incentive structure with negative impacts that many people, including many women, don't like.

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago (17 children) | Copy Link

I don’t agree that women’s preferences have a negative impact, since they are not on average choosing bad traits. Sure, they might choose a bad man because he’s very attractive / very good at sex etc, but they are not choosing him FOR his bad traits, so no, women are on average not insentivizing bad traits.

I agree that women are not selecting for bad traits per se (although certain bad traits, like the dark triad ones, are correlated with traits many women select for - powerful men are more likely to have sociopathic tendencies, after all).

But there's an opportunity cost issue. A specific and very powerful (to men) incentive is being allocated in a manner that has no real relationship to that man's prosociality. Indeed, it might even have a relationship to some antisocial traits (i.e. manipulative, machiavellian men may be able to get more sexual success, even if women are not directly favoring that particular trait). This is going to impact men's behavior (relative to an hypothetical alternative scenario of "prosocial traits attract sexual interest"), whether you like it or not.

Now, since society in general still depends on, and greatly benefits from, males being pro-social, this is an issue. Surely we can not just talk about it, but come up with ways society can deal with the reality of sexual incentives without sacrificing sexual liberation? I can think of at least two already, with very little effort.

Also, discussing what reward actually means is not derailling the discussion

Forgive my suspicions, but I'm a veteran of these "social justice" culture wars going back to the days of Elevatorgate. So I know how fights for control of social space operate and have seen many of my recreational spaces culturally terraformed to serve gynocentric agenda. I know the methods, the deliberate entryism, all the tactics. So yes, I'm suspicious. I have reason to be.

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I would say the impact is probably just not large enough to be relevant on a societal scale, since men who are manipulative and sociopathic (also isn’t sociopathy an condition someone is born with, rather than something one choose to be?) are a small minority of the general population.

That small minority can still do a lot of damage. If the small sociopathic minority were not really consequential, we probably wouldn't be so invested in creating a justice system etc. And yes, there are neuroatypicalities that cause sociopathy but that's not really relevant to the broad issue of how a society manages that sociopathic minority... whether they choose it is relevant since if it can't be treated it needs to be restrained somehow.

Most people (including men) have some sort of moral compass. Humans are not animals, we don’t just do whatever maximizes our own utility regardless of anything else.

Maximizing personal utility isn't necessarily at the expense of others. Most ethical egoists, many economists, and also plenty of utilitarians, have argued that the utility of (or interests of) others often contributes to that of yourself.

But that's a side issue to this discussion overall.

What are the two ways we could deal with this without sacrificing sexual liberty?

Create alternate rewards for prosocial behavior in males (esteem/respect being a big one), or reducing society's dependence on male prosociality by encouraging more women to pick up the slack and "lean in" (so to speak). And ameliorating the suffering of those men who lose out in the sexual marketplace via substitutes such as sexbots, sex work, etc.

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You've always engaged in debates very honestly here, so I'm very averse to saying this, but are you deliberately making the distinction just so you can claim some sort of male entitlement on the part of OP?

Or, IIRC you're Russian. Are you aware that in English, even if reward and incentive and benefit don't always mean the same thing, in common everyday speech they're often used as synonyms?

Because the easiest and most common-sense way to interpret the OP is that when he said "reward" he meant "incentive."

Incentive can be internal

Sure, but it is often external. And sex is, especially for the supermajority of males, a very powerful external incentive. "But it shouldn't be" isn't a valid response to this, because cost and benefit are subjective to the individual.

People respond to the incentives they encounter, on the basis of their values. Internal or external is irrelevant, and what people "should" value is also irrelevant if you're doing positive analysis.

I agree that sex cannot be a reward for pro-social conduct, and I've argued very clearly to that effect across multiple threads including recent ones. But the reality is that for the vast majority of men, sex is a powerful incentive. They will (try to) alter their looks and behavior to get it.

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In a vacuum, no, there is nothing wrong with saying sex is a reward, using your definition. I think most people agree that sex is something enjoyable and therefore a reward for whatever you did to get it, by your definition.

The problem is, many people (possibly most, I don’t know) understand the word “reward” differently, as you can see in this comment section. It includes intention to praise a specific behavior.

Red pillers often use “sex is a reward” to make women responsible for men’s actions and claim women should only have sex with people they deem “good”. This argument only works with my definition of a reward, which is why people would assume my definiton in that context and argue against it.

But yeah, nothing wrong with saying sex is a reward by your definition, people arguing against you assume a different definiton typically.

[–]bluestjuicePeople are wrong on the internet! 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]esdebahBlue Pill Man 11 points12 points13 points 10 months ago (21 children) | Copy Link

reward is a weird word, here.

Sex is a reward in the way that virtue is its own reward. Playing soccer or making music with a friend is rewarding but it would be weird to call it a reward for my friend for their friendship. Inviting them for dinner, it would be weird if they called a meal a reward. If my friend is having a shitty day or going through a bad time or is celebrating a birthday or just a got a promotion, I might take them for drinks or to go mini-golfing or something. That's not a reward., right?

If my girl has a bad day, I might give her a massage, or go for a walk or go down on her, tho I might not be in the mood. If she's feeling amorous and I'm not particularly, I might rouse myself to get her off because she's great and I want her to be happy. Heck, I'll probably have a nice time in the process. That's not a reward. That's all just being a partner.

And the sex will still be better if we're both just in the mood and we're both having the time of our lives. That Certainly is not a reward for anything. That's just good sex.

I'm hard pressed to think of a situation where the concept of "sex reward" wouldn't make my dick soft. And I can only imagine that it would have a similar drying effect on a lady's bits.

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>Do you talk about other people like this?

This is an instinctive concept if you are neurotypical (which may not be your case, it's normal)

Simply a consequence: "this woman wants to spend time with me because she liked me → she liked me because I tried to be interesting to her"

>If you play a round of PvP in a video game with your best friend, was he your “reward”?

Yep, it's a reward in the sense that he spends time with me because I behave in a way that is comfortable for him. And the same is vice versa.

>If you hang out with your friends, are they all “rewarding” you for good behavior?

Yes, their time spent with me is essentially a reward for me because I am good for them, and the same is vice versa. And if I were an asshole, they would not want to hang out with me.

>When your mom calls you to talk to you on the phone, is that a reward?

Yeah, that's also a reward in some sense, because I'm a good son and that's why she's happy to maintain communication with me.

Do you see how simple everything is? And there is no need to be afraid of the word and concept of "reward"

[–]badgersoniceWoman -cing the Stone 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This is an instinctive concept if you are neurotypical (which may not be your case, it's normal)

🙄 Accusing everyone who disagrees with you of not being neurotypical is not a good look at all. I am neurotypical. It is absolutely abnormal to normal people to describe going to dinner with a friend as “a reward”. Totally. Are you not a native English speaker?

Simply a consequence: "this woman wants to spend time with me because she liked me → she liked me because I tried to be interesting to her"

This is the way a robot would describe human interactions, not anyone normal.

Yes, their time spent with me is essentially a reward

No, I don’t mean is it “essentially” a reward, I mean is this the literal language you use to talk about people in real life? Like, you really actually describe your friends in real life as “a reward”, not as a claim that you do in a debate to win brownie points, but as a real world description? Do you really actually talk about your buddies as rewards? Or is it just females?

Do you see how simple everything is?

I understand the concept you are describing, but not your weird, robotic insistence on ignoring actual English language usage. There are a lot of words that are technically sort of ok to use, but have weird implications that aren’t fitting so normal people don’t use that word that way.

What is your purpose in trying to police the common language exactly?

[–]Cultural-Ad-8486Slavic Purple Pill Man[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

>Accusing everyone who disagrees with you of not being neurotypical is not a good look at all

It's just because neurotypical people have no problem understanding euphemisms. It might be a problem for you.

>This is the way a robot would describe human interactions, not anyone normal.

Rather, it is how tired I am of describing simple concepts that even children can understand. Therefore, I have to simplify everything and explain it with logical chains.

>No, I don’t mean is it “essentially” a reward, I mean is this the literal language you use to talk about people in real life?

When people use the words "Netflix and chill" they also don't say out loud that it's sex. But for some reason everyone understands everything

What you are doing is really turning everything into interaction at the level of some robots, but AI will probably be softer in terms

>There are a lot of words that are technically sort of ok to use, but have weird implications that aren’t fitting so normal people don’t use that word that way.

Again, people usually use euphemisms and metaphors to make their speech more "smooth".

But at the same time, neurotypicals still have no problem understanding the concept of "if someone treats me well, then they value me"

[–]badgersoniceWoman -cing the Stone 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's just because neurotypical people have no problem understanding euphemisms. It might be a problem for you.

And likewise, accusing someone of not understanding as saying they have a “problem” because they disagree with you is also not a good look. It’s also not a problem of lack of understanding for me. I understand what you intend to mean just fine. I think you don’t get how fucking weird it sounds to describe everything you enjoy as a reward… and by extension everything you don’t like as a punishment.

Neurotypical people also are much more likely than you, evidently, to notice and understand connotation rather than insist on a robotic reading of only part of the denotation of a word.

Rather, it is how tired I am of describing simple concepts that even children can understand. Therefore, I have to simplify everything and explain it with logical chains.

I understand your usage just fine. You think “reward” is the word you should use to describe everything you that benefits you, while ignoring the full meaning of the definition. Multiple people here have explained that definition to you, using logic, and you rejected logic entirely to cling to your pet personal definition that “reward” should be the word you use to describe everything you enjoy.

Again, people usually use euphemisms and metaphors to make their speech more "smooth".

Calling a person a “reward” is not a common or normal euphemism. It’s a dysphemism, actually: a derogatory or negative term used instead of a pleasant or neutral one. You know that it is an unpleasant term because of the extremely common negative reaction you get for using it— you evidently do not understand this extremely common negative reaction to your dysphemism, hence why you’re posting about how society is wrong to disagree with you.

Like ok, the fact that you are asking the question shows that you know it’s actually not a common euphemism. It’s your own usage and you’re annoyed that normal folks disagree with your usage and aren’t adopting your neologism of calling everything a reward.

[–]Cultural-Ad-8486Slavic Purple Pill Man[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

>It’s your own usage and you’re annoyed that normal folks disagree with your usage and aren’t adopting your neologism of calling everything a reward.

By the way, this is also a pretty good example of how you tried to distort the definition of "reward" in your favor

Since "reward" is only what is "given" in exchange for some services, attention, etc.

>the fact that you are asking the question shows that you know it’s actually not a common euphemism

And, I asked this question precisely because on the contrary, "sex/relationships as a reward" is something I hear often and something that is considered normal. But I just suspect that people here have problems with this precisely because they are on the autism spectrum. I have noticed this for a long time, for example, many here have problems with the concepts: "Impunity causes more abuse of power" or "More influential people are more likely to commit bad deeds because they are not punished." This is something that children and even many animals understand

Because it is a reward in the literal sense, because you are a suitable partner. It is about the reciprocity of the relationship, which is good

[–]badgersoniceWoman -cing the Stone -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

By the way, this is also a pretty good example of how you tried to distort the definition of "reward" in your favor

No, it’s the normal regular usage, and dictionaries try to reflect regular usage as best they can. The definition doesn’t say a reward is “ anything positive done or given response to something good or desirable”, which how you use the word. They use the phrase “in recognition” for a reason— that phrase connotes that there is a conscious desire to use the reward as a mechanism to highlight and praise how good the thing being rewarded was.

That is not what sex is. Sex is not given “in recognition” of services provided. It’s not advertised by women, typically, at all. Women don’t use sex to broadcast that this guy is a winner, and all the other men she didn’t fuck are losers.

Rewards are also, usually, predicated entirely on performance— anyone who achieves the achievement will get that reward. That’s how most people use the word reward— it’s a thing anyone could earn based on performance. For sex and friendship and relationships, that’s not the case— there is a complete lack of fairness. How well you get along with each other isn’t a competition that can be won, or should be won.

The problem here is you do not understand the connotations of the given definition, nor do you understand common English usage of the word. Or… possibly you do understand because you do actually refuse to tell your friends that they are your reward for good behavior, so maybe you do know it’s not how that word is used.

Because it is a reward in the literal sense

It is not in the literal sense, because in the literal sense, sex and friendship are not “things” that are given to deliberately showcase recognition of a job well done. They’re things both sides enjoy from each other.

[–]Cultural-Ad-8486Slavic Purple Pill Man[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

>Multiple people here have explained that definition to you, using logic, and you rejected logic entirely to cling to your pet personal definition that “reward” should be the word you use to describe everything you enjoy.

Actually, I (and many people here) used the dictionary definition of "reward"

And many people who argued with me here used their own derivative definition. For example, one of them tried to say that the word reward is associated only with a "one-sided" process and cannot be mutual. Which actually bullshits

>Calling a person a “reward” is not a common or normal euphemism

And again, the misunderstanding is that people use indirect ways of conveying information. As euphemisms and metaphors, as a result of which they use the term but do not name it directly.

Neurotypical people don't use the word "reward" directly all the time, but as a concept it exists.

Just like they don't say that "Netflix and chill" means "having sex", but for some reason everyone understands it

>Like ok, the fact that you are asking the question shows that you know it’s actually not a common euphemism

Of course, that's why feminist discourse isn't focused on eradicating the notion that "sex is a reward".

It's so rare that no one uses it, and that's why the feminist movement is trying to destroy it.

[–]badgersoniceWoman -cing the Stone -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And many people who argued with me here used their own derivative definition.

No, they used the correct definition, not your weird custom interpretation.

Neurotypical people don't use the word "reward" directly all the time, but as a concept it exists.

No, they almost never use it in this context. Your usage is very non-colloquial and stilted and doesn’t

Of course, that's why feminist discourse

Blah blah blah. I really do not care that you’re mad that the feminists you hate exist.

It's so rare that no one uses it

It really is only used by terminally online weirdo robotic dorks who want to believe that women should be handed out as prizes for good behavior like a gold star sticker from a teacher.

Like I said before, it’s not something normal people say, and especially not about someone they claim to care about. Normal people do not describe either their girlfriends or their friends as a “reward” for good behavior, or a “prize” for winning a contest.

[–]esdebahBlue Pill Man 5 points6 points7 points 10 months ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Again, i think this an issue of the word. Connotation vs denotation. In English, it would be awkward to the point of insult to say that I am rewarded by someone's friendship. Steven Pinker is still popular here, no?

The phrase "I'd love it if you could pass me the salt," is technically insane. "Would you mind opening the window?" "I'd be glad to pull up a chair." "Why don't we go for a walk?" "Could you join us?" These are terms we use to offer and receive consent. But obviously they are meant to suggest and even confirm intention. They slip into a space where one has plausible deniability on both sides. "Oh, I can't just now, wish I could." "Maybe next time." And all the while you're negotiating the power imbalance in-between

This is only sexy if you want BDSM stuff. That is:

Reward, afford, grant. These are not words you want with something like sex. Sex is something that happens when you do away with power imbalance. You say give and take and go and please and yes. it would be really strange if the person coming said "OH WHAT A BEAUTIFUL REWARD!" Just as it would be untoward if you got to the end of a dinner party and said to the host, "Thank you for picking up the cost of feeding us. I know that the guacamole I brought does not offset the price of the meal you prepared!"

Unless you're on good terms and you're making a joke.

Or, again, might work in a BDSM thing.

[edit: this i not a 'consent is implied' comment. this is about explicit consent]

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[–]IgorXYMan, gender warmonger 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

a thing that motivates or encourages someone to do something.

Let's simplify and say sex is a motivation for men, and I agree they aren't owned it. But if they get is, would you call it a positive reinforcement? I really struggle to understand why using "reward" is so off putting for people here. I don't really care what reason women think they have sex with a man. The most important is that she did.

I think you’d be charged with a different crime than if you intentionally killed someone.

Yes, but the person is dead in both cases. You said "Reward implies intention." I don't think so, it can be self inflicted, what I consider reward or success is defined by me. Motivation alone does not have any feedback loop.

Women not dating men aren’t firing guns.

Completely missed the point but ok, sure.

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]IgorXYMan, gender warmonger 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Women do not give sex as a reward for good behavior

I know. Could you then tell me how women choose whom to sleep with? We ruled out good behaviour, what's now, looks, money, random? The world must make some sense, I am willing to change and adapt, but I need to know how. Instead of arguing about semantics maybe it's time to admit that women refuse to be honest about what they find attractive? At least lemon gecko admitted that looks matter more than personality.

Why I want this confession. Because I am tired of hearing that I am a bad evil man that no one wants to be with. I don't really think I am, but because of my romantic failures it must be true, right? So I feel like I am willingly becomming hateful spiteful man, so at least I can agree, yeah, it's because I have bad personality, world make sense, duh.

No we gonna argue definition of "reward" ffs instead.

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Some people do use sex as a reward. I personally don't agree with that, I don't think intimacy should be weaponized, but some people do that.

However, when people say "sex isn't a reward" they mean that most people don't go around with the conscious thought of "if this person does XYZ, I will give them sex". They meet someone they like, they're horny, so they have sex with someone who tickles their fancy. I suppose that if you wanted to be super pedantic about it, you could say that sex is a reward for being conventionally attractive and fun to be with, but then you could argue that friendship is a reward for being a pleasant person. Ultimately, the issue seems to be that you and most other people have very different definitions of what a reward is. I view it as intentionally giving something to someone for a job well done; you seem to view it as a favourable consequence of doing something or possessing some quality.

[–]weenieandthebuttRed Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Logos1789Man 6 points7 points8 points 10 months ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

It’s a post-hoc defense against criticism of women who knowingly have sex and relationships with men who possess an elevated potential (or even a proven history) to behave/treat women in a way that most women claim to not tolerate, because of their lust for these men.

It’s also a post-hoc justification of criticism of sexually/romantically unsuccessful men.

We are supposed to pretend that women don’t knowingly, calculatingly have sex/relationships with “bad” (proxy what most women claim not to tolerate) men.

To help ensure that acknowledgement of this truth is rare, the women who make poor decisions smear the men who point out that women’s rules are often only for men who aren’t particularly desirable.

These women will ironically blame unsuccessful men’s lack of success on personality traits and behaviors which they overlooked for a hot hookup.

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[–]caption291Red Pill Man I don't want a flair -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You should use the word incentive then because it makes much more sense.

Yes, but no. There's a difference between establishing a common language and weaponizing nitpicking.

Don't get me wrong, I think semantics are actually pretty important for a debate and agreeing on definitions is where almost any serious argument should begin. Also, you're correct that incentive is a better word than reward.

But, were supposed to do discuss semantics so that we can understand what other people are trying to say better...not so that we find a technical loophole to get out of discussing the main idea.

Someone debating in good faith might say something like " I think incentive would be more apropriate" and then move on to discuss what they think the person meant...but instead were seeing a bunch of people who just elaborate a lot on why "reward" is wrong and end it there like cowards.

So they are weaponizing nitpicking and when someone is weaponizing nitpicking, you don't want to actually play their game, you need to refuse it and try to force the debate to focus on the actual idea people are trying to communicate.

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Title	Where does the idea that "sex is not a reward" come from?
Author	Cultural-Ad-8486
Upvotes	0
Comments	175
Date	August 26, 2025 6:46 AM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1n0eq83/where_does_the_idea_that_sex_is_not_a_reward_come/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/where-does-the-idea-that-sex-is-not-a-reward-come.1560509 https://theredarchive.com/post/1560509

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