Q4BP: Women don't owe men anything, why is the general theme here that men owe women decency?

DebatePony · 2018-01-08T15:12:04+00:00

I don't think that men owe women anything. Nor do I think that women owe men anything.

However, I do think that humans owe other humans common decency.

Sadly, we don't live in a perfect world and humans are flawed and can be horrible to each other. People are often hypocritical and try to hold others to standards that they do not hold themselves to. It sucks but it is what it is.

the_calibre_cat · 2018-01-08T16:14:14+00:00

Eh. I'd say everyone owes everyone else decency.

YourDadsNewGF · 2018-01-09T03:30:55+00:00

I think you need to define what you think of as common human decency. I don’t think that men owe it to me to, like, throw their capes over puddles where I walk. Nor do I owe it to them to fuck them whenever they want (BTW, my husband, a man, wouldn’t care for that. I give him basic human decency as well.) Basic human decency shouldn’t mean having to go massively out of your way. Because it’s basic. It also doesn’t have to be gender based, because it’s “human” decency.

I do want to talk about one part of your post that resounds with me. Specifically, abortion, when the woman wants it and the man doesn’t. Man. I get it, or at least I do, I think, or as well as any pro-choice woman can get it. I have two, very very wanted children. They were “real” to me as 6 week old “kidney beans” with heart beats. If ANYONE had been able to make the decision to abort them without my consent (which I never would have given) I would have...I don’t even know what I would have done. But it would have been DEVASTATING. So, genuinely, as a pro-choice feminist, my heart genuinely goes out to men that don’t want that abortion. I fully believe that it’s a truly horrific, traumatic experience for them, just as it would have been for me. Please don’t think I underestimate that experience. I recognize the horror of it as fully as I am capable of, using empathy.

Here is the thing though. When couples can’t agree on the abortion issue, there isn’t a compromise that can be found with our current technology. It’s not like the man can say “fine, you don’t want this baby, I’ll gestate it myself!!!” There are two people in this equation (the man and the woman) and if they can’t agree, who gets the final decision? To my mind, it HAS to be the women because only her body and only her health is affected. I understand. It’s fucking heartbreaking and unfair. Honestly, it’s unfair all around. It’s unfair that only women have to take on the burden (and yes, even with wanted pregnancies it can be a burden.) It’s unfair that men don’t have an equal say in their offspring. It’s ALLL fucking unfair when couples don’t agree. But it’s not a system that you can legislate to be “fair” because unless technology changes, it’s a pre-determined biological truth that either men can impose their desires on women’s bodies and offspring against their will, which is terrible and sucks, or women can impose their will over their own bodies and the offspring contained there in. Neither one is fair. But if we have to decide who gets the ultimate say, one is less unfair than the other. Does that make sense?

darksoldierk · 2018-01-09T01:27:46+00:00

The way I see it? It's because men have always treated women differently. Yes, some men beat their wives and some men raped, but the vast majority of men did not. Most men grew up "protecting their sisters". Men treated women differently then they treated men, they sheltered them. Over time, that "special treatment" became the standard treatment that women receive from men. Women wouldn't be able to handle men's lives. I remember watching this documentary where a hardcore feminist dressed up as a man for a few months and learned to act like a man. She made her way into male circles and hung out with men who didn't know that she was a woman and she ended up saying women are treated better by everyone and that women don't understand or appreciate that. When women are treated normally, they think that they are being treated badly.

I remember a friend of mine talking to me when I first moved out. We were talking about affording it, and I told her I made $1500 a month and paid $975 in rent (I was young and hadn't finished school yet). And she asked me "what if you can't afford rent?" and I said "that's not really an option, I'll stop eating before I not pay my rent". She looked at me and said "how do you guys do it? How do men live knowing that they don't have a safety net?", and I said "safety net?", She responded with "Well, if I have problems paying insurance, I can easily go to my boyfriend and he'll pitch in. If I get tired of working, I can easily marry someone who will support me. But you guys, you don't really have that option". I never thought about it, but she was right. We don't have that option. If I lose my job and don't get one in the 2 years worth of living expenses that I've saved up, I'm on the street. No one will help me, no one will even care, why? Because I am a man and I am expected to be responsible for my own life.

Anyway, point I'm trying to make is, women cannot handle the world as raw as men get it. "Decency" by a man's definition is "normal treatment" for a woman. Like, for me, decent behavior from a man is letting me use his cellphone during an emergency and my phone is out of battery. If he doesn't, he isn't a bad guy, he's just normal. For women, they EXPECT that and if you do it, you are not a good person.

goatismycopilot · 2018-01-08T15:28:23+00:00

The other day I was walking out of a bookstore and I saw a dude holding hands with his squirmy toddler who wanted to walk so I held the door open for them. Decency can just be public manners.

The post just seems ranty.

AstuteBlackMan · 2018-01-08T20:43:41+00:00

This is generally the fault of the man. You don't adhere to females standards if you don't like them. If there's a female who's saying you need to do "this", "this", and "this" but when you ask her to do something similar she says she's independent and she doesn't owe you shit then why would you even engage or tolerate her.

Men don't realize the simple power of walking away. This makes a lot of women shudder in their mind.

And I'm not advocating MGTOW I'm just saying don't deal with a woman who adheres to dumb standards.

sublimemongrel · 2018-01-08T16:12:09+00:00

Your issue is that we may disagree on what being “decent” is. So in keeping with your OP, I think the “decent” thing to do if you’re not in love with someone else or not attracted to them anymore is to divorce. Even better if you’ve tried to rekindle that flame first. But it sounds to me like you’d think that was “divorce rape” or whatever.

Similarly, I don’t think it’s just being “decent” to men to go through with a pregnancy and have a child you don’t want just because he wants it.

So we just have different values operating here on what is and isn’t “decent.” When I hear that word I think of common decency like not going out of your way to harm others, being polite and courteous to others. Which I think both genders should do.

vitringur · 2018-01-08T20:47:52+00:00

Why are you lowkey just ranting about abortion? What the fuck has this got to do with Trump?

Please don't pretend that Trump has anything to do with men and manhood.

Holy crap Americans can be delusional.

Reed_4983 · 2018-01-08T17:28:47+00:00

Any decision a woman makes is good.

Took you only until the third sentence to pull out the Godzilla-sized strawman.

wtknight · 2018-01-08T16:47:07+00:00

Women owe men decency too. That does not mean that women owe men romantic interest or sex.

eliechallita · 2018-01-08T17:16:39+00:00

Any decision a woman makes is good

I can't tell if you're exaggerating or outright lying when you claim that we think that. I can't speak for all BP, but most of us seem to hold men and women to the same standards of basic decency. At the very least, we don't want people from either gender fucking each other up. Everyone owes everyone else basic decency, until the other party does something to lose that right (and it has to be that specific party, not everyone from an umbrella group).

Take your example: Cheating on an unwitting partner is a bad thing. Fucking over a partner in divorce negotiations beyond what you have a right to, and especially turning their kids against them, is a bad thing. Abortion is a grey zone because it touches on matters of bodily autonomy, but using it purely to hurt your partner is a bad thing.

We aren't claiming that women are right to do these things, and that men simply have to suck it up: We just think that the women who do these things are bad individuals, and their behavior is not indicative of women as a whole, nor should it be a basis for the treatment of women as a whole.

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TheChemist158 · 2018-01-08T18:51:03+00:00

Any decision a woman makes is good.

Where in the fuck did you get that idea? Of course women can make bad decisions.

Slutting around in the 20s and then going AFBB? Fine.

If she is happy and so are the men, why not?

Divorce raping hubby and fucking up the kids because the tingles aren't coming anymore? You go girl!

Divorces usually aren't so straight forward, but such a frivolous one would be a shitty thing for her to do.

Getting an abortion when the father doesn't want his baby to die? It's her right.

She is the pregnant one. The decision to abort should be entirely hers, just like the decision for a man to get vasectomy should be entirely his.

Not getting an abortion against the father's will? Well, if you didn't want to pay 50% of your pay for 18 years you shouldn't have picked a condom that ripped.

Are you in favor of forced abortions? Because that is all kinds of fucked up. I am in favor of LPS and don't think women should sue a guy for child support if he never did and still doesn't want the kid.

Harsh rejection? She was clearly creeped out and you're in the wrong

Some women can be unnecessarily harsh and that is a bad thing. Some men can be persistent and need a harsh rejection.

The only straight up indefensible thing for the BP hive mind is cheating

Cheating is cut and dry shitty.

although with the advent of """"poly"""", there's an approved mechanism for forcing that gross low beta to accept cheating in a power play.

It's not cheating if he is aware of it and agreed to it. Ifhe doesn't like the terms of the relationship he can reject them and leave the relationship if need be. Same deal if the guy is fucking many chicks in a poly relationship. If the woman okayed it, she has no right to be upset.

You have to approach because men and women are different

Women generally don't approach. Men don't have to either, but it would make for getting a girlfriend easier. But again, if a girl wants a guy she would also have a better chance if she approached him.

but you can only approach if she's going to like it.

Baring obvious cases like if she is working or with her boyfriend, you have no way of knowing how receptive she will be. Of course you can approach to get a feel. If she is disinterested just don't be too persistent.

Women judging you by your n count (or lack of n count) is fair game, but judging them back? Not allowed.

Judging either gender on their N count is fine, just don't be a dick about it.

Pump and dumping because you didn't like her 3XL nipples that ruined everything also means you're a manipulative POS.

leading her to believe you are interested in a serious relationshipjust just to get sex is manipulative. Being open about your intentions or legitimately losing interest is fine.

Intentionally dragging your feet on marriage is manipulation

Misleading her on your interest in marriage is wrong. Being open about your lack of interest in marriage is fine.

let's not even talk about how horribly abusive low level dread game is.

Talking about having hobbies, going out with friends, hitting the gym? There is nothing remotely abusive about those things.

Women voting as a collective to make pro woman legislation is all good but no you can't vote for Trump he's going to defund planned parenthood

People are allowed to have and express their political ideas. Just like how it's okay for men to have and express their political ideas.

Do you guys (mostly gals tbh) not see the disconnect?

No disconnect, just strawmen.

pinkgoldrose · 2018-01-08T17:20:25+00:00

Do you not see that this is just your opinion? What are you so certain that your opinion is truer and others are a "disconnect"? It's really just a jugement of value.

Slutting around in the 20s and then going AFBB?

As a blue pill person I don't even believe in the AFBB strategy. If one person does it then here's what I see: she gives a good time to lots of men, she hopefully has a good time herself living her life worry-free and meeting lots of interesting people, she then falls in love with a man and she loves him, so that's good for him. The guy chooses to marry her rather than a less interesting girl and he's probably happy he got such a great Stacy to share his life.

Divorce raping hubby and fucking up the kids because the tingles aren't coming anymore?

As a blue pill person I don't approve of stay-at-home-moms, and I don't think men should marry way below their socioeconomic status just to get a hotter and more submissive wife. But even in a red pill marriage, or any type of marriage, divorce has to exist, because otherwise abused women would be trapped, as they were in the past. I also don't approve of the word "hubby".

Not getting an abortion against the father's will?

I'm sorry, but you can't force someone to get an operation. Why don't you get a vasectomy? It's reversible.

you shouldn't have picked a condom that ripped.

Uneducated people problem. When the condom rips, go get a plan B. I know you can't force the woman to swallow it, that's why sleeping with dumb women is a huge risk.

You have to approach because men and women are different, duhhhh

Not a blue pill belief.

Women judging you by your n count (or lack of n count) is fair game

Not a blue pill belief.

Women voting as a collective to make pro woman legislation is all good but no you can't vote for Trump he's going to defund planned parenthood

Is defunding planned parenthood pro men by your logic? Because in this same conversation you've said you want more abortions.

rulenumber303 · 2018-01-08T17:48:11+00:00

TRPer to English translation, waaaah waaah waaaah I don't have control over women's bodies or minds.

Ultramegasaurus · 2018-01-08T15:15:16+00:00

OP, you know they're just going to backpedal now and claim they never ever stated such things.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2018-01-08T15:12:05+00:00

Defund Planned Parenthood and women will start refusing sex (PIV) collectively. Abortions will be done in the alleys, using a coathanger. Or diving down the flight of stairs...there are many ways.

Electra_Cute · 2018-01-08T14:49:30+00:00

I wonder how quickly this post will be taken down...

I do not think that males owe anyone anything.

TriplePlusBad · 2018-01-08T15:27:01+00:00

Why on earth are you paying attention to people who are clearly morons?

newName543456 · 2018-01-09T11:10:20+00:00

Nobody should owe anyone anything unless it's mutually agreed.

Common decency should not be men-women interaction specific, more of a tool to make future interactions with specific person reasonable.

caesarfecit · 2018-01-08T16:44:45+00:00

I love how you're being treated like you're imagining things. I'm gonna answer this honestly for you, it's because we're better than them.

Title	Q4BP: Women don't owe men anything, why is the general theme here that men owe women decency?
Author	crackrocksteady7
Upvotes	42
Comments	346
Date	January 8, 2018 2:47 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7oyy2l/q4bp_women_dont_owe_men_anything_why_is_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4bp-women-dont-owe-men-anything-why-is-the.264091 https://theredarchive.com/post/264091

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