[Question for Men] Do you feel like you are owed sex from women, just because like you feel like you want/need sex? Is this why some men get upset when women have high standards, since it makes sex harder to get?

mechanical_elves · 2020-01-23T03:53:57+00:00

Men don't think random women owe me sex.

If a man and woman are seeing each other, they can set their own standards on when to have sex, and if they don't match they can move on.

This isn't entitlement, it's people knowing what they want. Some men have a fast sex standard, if they don't compromise women get upset and get defensive about it saying men think they're "owed" sex.

edit: likewise when women have a wait for sex standard, men get defensive about it and say women's standards are too high.

Really it just means they're a bad match for each other. Men and women will probably always be at odds, it was even in the Bible. My first question to God when I die will be "what the fuck, dude?"

dylang92 · 2020-01-23T03:48:34+00:00

No 🙄

Darkseeker_Mau · 2020-01-23T11:57:29+00:00

The people at FDS are playing the incel self-fulfilling prophesy, they make a man 'wait' for sex until he leaves them for a normal woman that enjoys sex. The FDS types have no real interest in romance or companionship, they are just trying to prove a point, "all men want is sex".

That's the reason why the can't keep a man in their lives, either because there are always better men out there, and they have deluded themselves into chasing "the perfect man" that doesn't exist.

Or either because they view sex as a tool of manipulation, toxic people can't have the perfect relationship.

When it comes to the question of owning sex, that does applied to prostitution, if a man pays a prostitute for sex, then he's owned the sex part of the transaction. That's one of the reasons why women are against prostitution, because it makes sex too easy to get, no hoops to jump.

I don't believe in concepts of "high" or "low" standards, people get what they can get, and some people exercise some level of self-respect and refuse to date bad people, that's called 'having standards'.

All people should have standards and boundaries, but if you just don't enjoy sex as much as your partner, then prepare for hardship, because that's a relationship killer.

CainPrice · 2020-01-23T13:44:23+00:00

If a woman agrees to a monogamous relationship with me or marries me, it’s not that I’m “owed” sex specifically so much that it’s understood that if a sexual frequency of my liking doesn’t happen, I’m ending things.

If I’m agreeing to be monogamous and forsake all other sexual partners, and she’s the only woman I’m allowed to have sex with under threat of losing the relationship, then she’s agreeing to have sex with me under threat of losing the relationship.

This isn’t something that really needs to be said out loud, though. If you’re threatening her to get laid, it’s been over for a while.

Some random girl I had drinks with has no obligation to me. But if she wants me to be interested, she knows how to be interesting. If she chooses not to be, she doesn’t want my interest.

honestgoing · 2020-01-23T04:23:34+00:00

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Barely-moral · 2020-01-23T04:11:39+00:00

Not really. No one owes me anything.

But lets be realistic. All women I knew wanted me to bring some value to them (that is fair). And me bringing value to them requires me to change the way I live and act so I can become attractive.

That is not their fault, I am just an antisocial lazy fuck that wouldn't do shit if it wasn't a requirement to do so to be attractive.

Now, since any woman that is considering any kind of relationship will demmand and expect quite a few things from me and those things cost me time, effort and me giving up on my plant like existence, then I am going to demmand a few things of my own. Sex is one of those things.

No woman owes me sex, but if a woman wants to get anything from me, then she will have to bring value to me as well. Sex is a non negotiable starting point.

Red__Blue · 2020-01-23T06:04:54+00:00

I mostly like it and find it useful

This is the first and probably only time I'll ever talk about fds. It's a masturbation aid with rat poison. It's very similar to the briancels subreddit. There's a reason they called it sui-fuel. It is at no point an answer to your problems, and the advice you get and responses are only going to entrench you deeper.

FDS "strategy" is too lazy and self aggrandizing to its reader. It purports that by following a few simple rules without putting in more effort they can screen out all the fuckboys in their lives and find the one true connection they deserve. Further, they argue that not only do you not have to work hard to do this you actually get to work LESS hard to get what you want. And if you end up alone for your perpetually ugly spirit then it was better than to submit yourself to the degrading practice of dating for a woman.

Honestly, the reason guys pump and dump women is that they're a fucking potato. They have very low attention spans they contribute very little to the act of emotionally connecting and literally wait for men to do it for them. It's actually really easy to get men to form emotional connections with people, but you've almost certainly never even thought about what you could actively do to make that happen. So far not a single girl I've asked has ever answered that they have a plan when they go to a date. I've not ever met a girl whose practiced and worked on herself as a person with the intention to have a better love life. FDS has not changed that at all. It's no Red Pill.

Red Pill challenges you. It gives you some advice and then admonishes you for your own weakness in the face of modern comforts. It makes demands of you, makes no promises for you, and it castigates you for the very innocent and foolish crippling human qualities that women have lost patience for on a date,

for instance "love" is no longer affordable to bring to a date, for a number of reasons: awkwardness, borigness, not flattering enough, not sexy enough, too much work for the passive consumer, it's not very valuable. But I'm digressing. Red Pill isn't free compliments and blaming women: it's an obstacle course, it's a diet, it's training: the strategy is to make you a valuable person. It is a spiritual ablation they undergo for months to become someone you don't treat like shit.

FDS has never blamed you for indolence in your own love life, and it's written by people who openly state that they are satisfied if you end up old and alone, which is really dumb for a female dating strategy.

CuriousIncel2 · 2020-01-23T09:21:51+00:00

No. My opinion is that men who take responsibility, don't make excuses and don't blame others for their situation will never feel like they're owed anything. We know that we have to work for everything that we want, or choose to not put in the effort and live without it. No excuses. If we want sex, we have to become the kind of man a woman will be sexually attracted to.

I think the men that complain about women having high standards are actually frustrated by the lack of congruity between what women say and what they do. For example, a woman will say she rejected a man for not having a car, but then go and have sex with someone who doesn't have a car.

I realized in my teens that women will do anything for a man they're sexually attracted to, but enforce "high standards" on a man that she's not. After digging into this, I was able to understand how this is totally logical behaviour. Men are just complaining about this double standard because they're confused by this "hypocrisy", or are naively judging her based on what she says instead of paying attention to her actions.

Or, saddest of all, they're just not willing to accept the harsh reality that they're not attractive. Women are only attracted to the top 10% of men. For the rest 90% of us, it is a very very difficult fact to accept that basic genetic rejection, more so because this unfairness is inherently build into our reproductive biology. Only after accepting this fact, are we able to move on and either decide to build ourself into a desirable man, or just accept the status quo.

PM_Happy_Puppy_Pics · 2020-01-23T06:57:45+00:00

making men wait for sex helps to filter out men who only want sex.

Having higher standards is okay, and it's okay not to give guys a chance, or time, if they don't meet your standards.

Filter out guys who are going to use you for sex if that's what you what. You wanna have sex? Guys will find you for that, literally anywhere.

Having standards is perfectly ok- any guy who wants you long term will want to know you have standards. Honestly, this subreddit used to be interesting and have posts that contrasted red pill vs blue pill. Now it is all about weird stuff like this.

By weird, I mean, a normal woman meets an incel and wants to debate incel logic vs literally normal people. Incels have a warped view of reality and we all know that. A normal woman will automatically filter out guys who aren't her match. Women are the selectors, there is only a small subset of guys who are even approaching selector level and TRP filters out girls with high standards and filters for girls with low self-esteem/anxious attachment styles.

NeedingAdvice86 · 2020-01-23T04:08:23+00:00

Nope....I have never gotten upset a girl choice in mate.

I have laugh my ass off at some of the horrible decisions though because honestly, it is one of the great jokes by God...along with getting to decide about who does and doesn't get to fuck, God also put a heaping dose of emotions into the mix and then sits back and watch women fucking make disastrous decision after disastrous decision.

My lack of empathy has gotten me in hot water a couple of times just recently with the GF...because some one of the girls in her social group makes a particularly stupid choice, then comes bawling to the group about why Derek will not get up and go to work, got fired again and has stopped treating her nicely after she broke up with her BF for him and he fucked her for a couple of weeks...the dolt was actually trying to get the girls to brainstorm how if might be possible to get the BF back..could she use the "I was confused" or "I now know what I truly want" or just "nothing happened, I just needed some time to alone". I just laughed and blurted out "what did you expect, he just wanted to fuck you and never gave a shit...everyone knew it but you."...GF didn't like that hardness.

honestgoing · 2020-01-23T03:56:32+00:00

[deleted]

MrHerbSherman · 2020-01-23T04:55:52+00:00

making men wait for sex helps to filter out men who only want sex.

This is fundamentally wrong, I want a loving relationship most but only with someone who is high sex drive and sexually compatible, so I screen hard for that. I don’t want to have attachments to women who are incompatible so I try to have sex quickly so I can get that issue out of the way

And no I don’t feel like women are required to give it or some shit. I want sex with a high sex drive woman who’s really into me, who wants to have sex with me even if she doesn’t know everything else I bring to the table

parahacker · 2020-01-23T07:20:08+00:00

Devil's advocate time.

Since so many men here are saying 'no,' I'm gonna go with a (qualified) 'yes'. Call me contrarian.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8i9z41/norwegian_female_researcher_discovers_why_so_many/

This links to a discussion of how men vastly outnumber women in who wanted children but did not have them. And the gap is widening as Norway becomes increasingly 'egalitarian' in their policies.

Some may not see this as a problem. These men were just failing to attract women, yah? Not women's fault.

And I agree, it is not women's fault. But I disagree that is it not a problem, that this is not evidence of an unfair relationship marketplace.

Now, I live in America, not Norway. But I suspect that the trend holds true here as well. I don't have a study for here, and given our population and cultural diversity I suspect such research would be far more difficult. But assuming for the moment that American men suffer similarly, I still do not claim that any particular woman owes a man sex. But I do say that our society owes any population that is facing such a massive barrier to quality of life (and make no mistake, for those who want them children can define quality of life) a better way forward.

Further, this is evidence that a gap of men are not only not getting kids, but the sex and yes relationships that precede them.

One man owed sex? No. A whole 28% or so of all men? Maaaaybe... maybe that needs attention.

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2020-01-23T04:11:49+00:00

I don't feel I'm owed anything by them.

I do hate my time and money being wasted, though, I have better things to do than waste it dumb social shit if it's not gonna last.

WGttDS · 2020-01-23T04:18:44+00:00

No, none of that is unreasonable. There's nothing wrong with wanting to found your relationship on something other than sex. There's equally nothing wrong with someone deciding sex is an important part of their intimate relationships and deciding they are unwilling to wait, but as long as you recognize that as a compatibility issue rather than a moral failing, I am on board with you.

rus9384 · 2020-01-23T04:44:16+00:00

This is so stupid.

"Do you feel like you are owed to succeed in things you try, just because you feel like you want/need to succeed? Is this why some people get upset when they can't succeed in these things?"

Do you think when somebody can't fix something and gets upset over it, because they feel that the broken stuff is owed to get fixed by them?

Or video games are owed to be beaten? Or whatever.

30dirtyfingers · 2020-01-23T05:42:57+00:00

2020-01-23T07:36:58+00:00

It's not unreasonable if that's what you want to do but it would probably not work for me. The reason being when I'm single I'm rarely actively looking for a serious relationship just like that. I'm doing my own thing. My relationships have all evolved at a steady pace from what I'd consider more casual into something more serious.

The key part of that has always been I like spending time enough with one girl to want to make it serious. And to be blunt, this so when I will start cutting away other girls or the pursuit of other girls.

Like I said, I'm usually not looking for something serious off the bat, but I get there eventually. I'd be put off by being asked to wait for sex for too long a time. On the other hand, I'd be ok for a while but we would have to really be getting along for me to prioritize spending time with someone that much over doing my own thing.

While I might have my own issues, this seems a fairly organic way to go about things in this day and age and seems to work out pretty well.

oncewasagoodman · 2020-01-23T09:44:31+00:00

practicing and internalizing just those two basic principles will mean that if I enter a relationship, I have a better chance of that relationship being more fulfilling.

Heck yes girl I think you are correct! Let's splain the two things out:

making men wait for sex helps to filter out men who only want sex.

Because woman do not understand men and can not look at a man and see if he's a loser or a man with a plan, and now you have no guidance? Yeah see if he will wait. Men who only want sex will not wait. Yes as well the SMP is so fucked up for so long that a lot of actually high value guys will no longer wait, at all. But cmon if you were in play for a truly high value guy you wouldn't be here asking these questions.

Having higher standards is okay, and it's okay not to give guys a chance, or time, if they don't meet your standards.

Dear God just have some standards. Not, "I'm horney and he's hot". Even if I'm the hot guy I can't create a lasting marriage based off of "I'm horny and he's hot". Yes please have some standards. Please. I mean what are you a beast? An animal? You're horny and this guy is here? Any plan is better than that plan. Please do have standards!! Any standards!!

Now realize what it will take to get your standards.

Myself? I would never wait beyond one date for sex. Period. And I'd push for it so girls who stuck around to the end of the "date" and didn't give me what I wanted would have to come up with excuses.

Does access to your soul mean I'll commit? Of course not. You give your soul away anyway. It only means now you are in the competition. If you ever could be.

goneaway2thewind · 2020-01-23T10:18:13+00:00

insertcredit2 · 2020-01-23T10:40:33+00:00

I'm owed sex as much as any women is owed my time, money, affection, support or resources. If you give and don't get back then you leave. This goes equally for both sexes.

The whole FDS attitude with the sexes reversed is like a guy saying "I expect women to come over to me house every night for 3 months, suck my cock then leave before I'm willing to take her on a date"

lilsaihah · 2020-01-23T10:41:06+00:00

"Don't fuck them for three months" seems like a great way to get an imbalanced relationship with a man who doesn't have the balls to go after what he wants, or a gay/asexual guy who'll be confused when you ask him why he hasn't tried to fuck you yet.

It's not an unreasonable position. It's just not very well thought out and won't get you what you want.

ggfrtjbhggt · 2020-01-23T12:27:18+00:00

I don't feel like women owe me sex usually but the higher the standards (women think 80% of men are under average) the higher the payment should be and meeting the high standards of a girl that doesn't repay it makes it feel like they owe sex as it's effortless and sometimes look like the only thing they can do

wtknight · 2020-01-23T13:45:00+00:00

The complaint is mostly a fairness one about treating different men differently when it comes to sex. I doubt that most men would have hostility towards any woman who they knew made every man wait for sex, although they might not be interested in waiting for said woman.

I know that this is exactly what FDS recommends for women, but manosphere men dislike FDS because it’s full of male bashing, and because they don’t believe that most of these women would really make Chad wait three months, or that these women have already had their Chad chasing phase and are now just looking for beta bux.

2020-01-23T18:50:18+00:00

Your post as written is pretty reasonable, but doesn't really gel with human nature.

A significant portion of women WILL get upset if a dude fucks her and doesn't phone or otherwise pursue a relationship afterward.

A significant portion of dudes WILL get upset if a woman asserts he doesn't meet her standards.

Rejection hurts, there's just no getting around that. It requires a somewhat enlightened mindset to understand that dating is simply a numbers game and that no individual rejection ought to matter, in the grand scheme of things.

Some people just lack that mindset and can't help taking things personally. Especially if they're carrying baggage from other areas of life. It's not useful to think of this as something only men do. Women get upset over rejections too.

I don't condone some dude going off on a tirade because a woman wouldn't sleep with him. That's the nature of the game. But if he wants to be upset over it and isn't lashing out at anybody... fuck it, let him. Life is difficult. There are bumps and bruises along the way. Sometimes people don't like you, and a lot of times it's for things outside your control, and like.... maybe you're not owed anything, but you are allowed to be upset if you feel you can't, or aren't, getting them.

If one of your girlfriends got pumped and dumped, i'm sure your first instinct would be to console, not necessarily tell her she isn't owed a relationship and demand she stop pestering the world about her hurt feelz. Maybe if she kept bitching for days on end.

SnowHatesWome · 2020-01-23T18:52:24+00:00

Men feel entitled to women’s bodies. Women feel entitled to men’s everything else

corey_trevorson · 2020-01-23T19:39:37+00:00

As a guy, some of FDS (Not dating musicians, artists, photographers, etc) I find to be really silly and unhelpful. I would consider myself a musician, I love music and have played it all my life. Mostly I do it for my own enjoyment and for others' enjoyment. I'm also a computer scientist with a decent paying job (only 1 year in too). But if I had led with "I play music a lot" you'd dismiss me on that count? Yeah, a bit baffling..

On the other hand, a lot of FDS makes sense and some of it is redpilled as well. For example, not putting up with a deadbeat bf simply for his attractiveness.

Personally, if the woman wants to wait for sex, but is otherwise showing interest in dating me, I'm probably going to go along with it if I'm attracted to her. If I really like her, the wait won't really matter. I'd rather the girl be filtering out men who want only sex anyways, as that shows a readiness on her part for an LTR, which I happen to also want.

TL;DR it's not unreasonable to have a waiting period. A guy who is secure probably won't care.

bonusfruit · 2020-01-23T19:43:39+00:00

No man thinks he is owed sex. Zero. Being disappointed, hurt or frustrated is not equal to thinking they are owed.

2020-01-24T01:57:40+00:00

I don’t think I’m owed sex by women. I just find it laughable when some 4/10 chubster thinks she’s entitled to the affections of the literal top 5% of men and I’m entitled for thinking acerage women should date average men.

2020-01-24T02:42:00+00:00

No one owes anyone anything, especially not sex. Anyone who thinks differently has their head up their ass and is dangerous.

2020-01-24T14:40:27+00:00

That is ok I do not want sex, lived without since year 2000. That is fine if you do not want sex but if you are in your late 20’s or older you probably slept with bad boys. I do not want to talk to women unless required.

cxj · 2020-01-24T20:05:56+00:00

No not at all, no one thinks this, it’s just an absurd ad hominem levied by feminists to trash men

BumblingBeta · 2020-01-24T21:00:48+00:00

Men don't feel like they are "owed" sex. They are simply angry because women can get sex so easily, whereas most men find it difficult or impossible to get.

honestgoing · 2020-01-23T04:07:15+00:00

Men only care when a woman his high standards for HIM while she did all kinds of shit in the past for other guys.

Salty-Bastard · 2020-01-23T04:17:49+00:00

So the pendulum is swinging back to moral boundaries between men and women to enter into a relationship? That's a breath of fresh air.

RahLyt · 2020-01-23T04:22:45+00:00

These questions are getting more ridiculous. Next: "Guys do you find rape acceptable?"

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-01-23T05:54:37+00:00

barebooh · 2020-01-23T07:21:21+00:00

Okay there are no pump-n-dump guys, it's just men making women wait for relationship to filter out those who unfit. Omg women are so entitled!

joesmithasdf · 2020-01-23T07:52:22+00:00

Nobody owes anyone anything, it’s just that there are consequences. If you’re willing to narrow down your options, more power to you. Just don’t go around saying it’s a “weird trick, stacies hate them”, magic solution to attract elusive good men.

LeJacquelope · 2020-01-23T09:00:52+00:00

For fuck's sake, for the 1000th time, we're raised to believe we are unworthy by default, and that all the effort in the world isn't guaranteed to get us anything at all.

That is why a lot of men just give up.

Eastuss · 2020-01-23T09:04:55+00:00

FDS is basically about not giving anything until someone has given you enough. FDS is about testing men but never about the idea that they should seduce men too. First of all, she doesn't value sex even a tiny bit like you do, then, you'll go through months of dating and of PAYING for everything, and that without even knowing if she's going to be a good deal, you'll know only after she has decided you are a good deal.

FDS is by design UNFAIR.

In a perfect world, people should commit and have sex as soon as possible. But life isn't fair and I won't blame women for doing this, and I won't deny some men aren't being ultra selfish either.

What men feel like is that being an average man should be enough to attract average women. What men feel like is that being a normal man should lead to having a normal life. And most people would claim that a normal life means having sexual and romantic partners and not spending most of your time alone. While most men have a painful and unsuccessful early life, while most women can acquire a "normal life" fairly early and with fairly no amount of effort.

So when women answer this privileged early start in life with "I gotta get more selfish and put myself first even more and treat men as if they owed me for my presence", they're puzzled and feel like women are pushing it too far for no reason and aren't being reasonable, yes.

whynot1871 · 2020-01-23T05:51:06+00:00

Nobody owes me shit, but I shouldn't owe anyone anything either.

What bothers me is women forcing men to provide without giving anything in return, usually voting for expanded welfare and shit. (I live in Finland, very high taxes) So I have to pay high taxes to fund the life of some deluded single mother and her bastards.

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