What's crazy to me about the argument about it being normal is that its only normal in the States and the middle east. That's like 10% of the men in the world, tops. It's decidedly NOT normal.
http://www.circinfo.net/rates_of_circumcision.html I found a few articles like this one. The newest one I could find used data from 2012 which is based on a global population of 7 billion and uses circumcision prevalence in that time. The trend in all of them seems to be that since around the turn of the millennia the prevalence in non Muslim countries has dropped pretty quickly. Estimates went down from about 40% to about 30% in 12 years. Since then the prevalence has continued to drop and the population of countries that definitely don't circumcise (India and china especially) continues to grow rapidly thus lowering this percentage even further. Based on these trends I'd say about 27% of the world's men are circumcised. Not as little as I previously said, but still extremely low. Also, it's estimated that only 10% of the world's non-muslim males are circumcised (this is also based on older statistics, so it's probably lower now too).
And this is just a strange paper I found while researching. It uses the approach of "the more correlations, the more likely there is causation" which is obviously flawed, but it doesn't make it less interesting to read. http://www.circumcision.org/harmswomen.htm
My perspective as a man with his foreskin is that masturbation is better than sex with a condom but not as good as sex without one. So basically, I never get that pent up sexual energy when I've gone for a while without sex.
Nothing you said does not dispute my assertion that mra is a white atheists movement with no intention dealing with issues affecting minority men- the only crime reform ever discussed here is how to protect white men from rape allegations, nothing is ever said about felons rights or better services in prisons or restoring voting rights to felons
How about evaluation of discriminatory housing policies and practices
How about police killing unarmed blacks
The only issues that matter here are stoping rape investigations, banning circumcision and making it fine for men to financially abort their children
What about the drug and suicide and mental health epidemic?
These are the Satmars and they are the whipping boy of the anti Semite media, like you, for about 100 years
The Satmars engage in oral transmission during circumcision, all your cites about herpes, masturbating rabbis, and sex crimes by Jews involve this group
They have 144,000 members, nearly all live in two area of Brooklyn and in one area of Israel
Your videos are of Satmar bris, everything you are talking about involves them- they are nuts
They are not mainstream Jews and do not even represent others Chasid who threw them out and split if, they are Lubavitch who perform circumcision using a clamp and scalpel, the Satmars use the various instruments you posted
Anyway, oral transmission during circumcision was actually illegal in New York, the only place Satmars practice, for 20 years- bill deblasio unbanned it due to concerns it would affect Muslims, go figure
Oral transmission is like fgm, it's a buzzar thing the do, it does not effect me so I don't care and I don't support regulating religion, but it is not representative of main stream or even extreme Jewish faith
Mosses mendalsin was a hack and all of his children converted to Islam, he also advocated the end of kosher, lots of Jews are not huge fans- fun thing about being Jewish is we have lots of options
I prefer Rambam and his 13 principles of the Jewish faith, it's a good read
The Satmars live in Williamsburg, they have big fur hats and knee socks, you can't miss them, call them up and complain
You do realize Jews believe we do circumcision because we are commanded to? Not because are wives or children did anything wrong
Jacob, the creator of the 12 tribes was circumcised as a child because god told issac to circumcise him at 8 days, we follow that commandment, the Jewish faith is based on over 600 commandments- most involve prayers some involve ritual washing and some are about circumcision
You don't become a "proper Jew" by being circumcised, your not a Jew at all because you have rejected the faith and its commandments, you have chosen to appease gentiles instead of god and live a path of selfishness
As the bring masturbated, I explained clearly that you are referring to the Satmars and their practices, I was not masturbated and I have never seen a baby jacked off at a bris, it's a very fast procedure- you don't have to like it but you can at least stick to facts
Did you just equate being religious to being a nazi?
Also, I get your posting things from the Old Testament that I am supposed to be mad at but I again remind you I don't believe government should be regulating religion- gays in Israel actually can not force rabbis to give them a Jewish wedding like in America
If you like you may also google a thing called the Talmud Put in your cite and then read the commentary by rashi, Hillel, Rambam- they are very illuminating on the Torah
I don't see any of the things you cited as shocking
I think circumcision is bizarre and I'm certainly not defending it, but I've heard it's supposed to be a cleanliness thing. A woman I work with was talking about her son's circumcision and she said no one had told her you had to continuously pull the skin back afterwards so it heals properly or it can require further surgeries and apparently it's not entirely uncommon. Ugh just why
Dude, stop making shit up. You're not 'put down' for vasectomies. They rub some numbing agent on your balls, then you get two shots and you're done. The operation involves cutting two tiny holes in the side of your balls and nipping the vas deferens.
You keep claiming outrageous things about circumcision in America. Please point me to an article to a man involuntarily being circumcised in the last 50 years while going in for an unrelated operation.
Wait, are you defending an adult (say a 34 year old) having sex with a 13 year old? Are you arguing that an age of consent of 13 is acceptable? Because it's not.
I haven't been to those countries, I'm not sure how it works. I doubt it's normal or "encouraged" for a 40 year old to have sex with someone just on the other side of their age of consent. Just because it isn't legal doesn't mean that it's normal or acceptable. Maybe it doesn't deserve jail time but the public shaming might be enough of a deterrent for most. For example, where I live I assume the age of consent is 18. No one I know would encourage a relationship between an 18 year old and a 40 year old.
And let me ask you this - I wonder if prostitution is legal in these countries with a low age of consent, and when people are allowed to work in prostitution legally - is it the same as the age of consent?
So you seem to be saying that teenagers having sex is morally wrong or a bad decision because most people below the age of 18 are unable to make good decisions.
Has it occurred to you that maybe it's just not that big of a deal if teenagers have sex, especially if it's with protection? Maybe it can actually be a good decision?
When is it OK to have sex, in your opinion, and why is that an OK time?
It's true that's there's many types, but I'd hardly call that insane woman an anthropologist. She thinks a clitoris can't be removed without killing a woman. I mean, what??? I guess clitoridectomies are just a form of suicide then.
I also think both should be banned - it still seems insane to me that she can say a clitoridectomy would kill a woman. By no means is it a small matter or pleasant, but it's not an Achilles' heel.
The story was about a doctor in the US, so I took it to mean that even in a modern clinical setting it's lethal. If that wasn't the context, then my bad. It would still be survivable, just also much more dangerous, as any surgery outside of a sterile hospital setting would be.
Perhaps I'm a little confused, but why would it automatically kill a woman? The procedure exists to excise it, so it doesn't follow that it would kill a woman. Like you said, it would just be a more surgical procedure.
I imagine the lack of sterilisation during the time these practises developed and the fact that most of the clitoris extends inside and is not visible influenced that FGM doesn't remove the clitoris, but that's just a guess.
I mean I don't think male and female circumcision is comparable. Male circumcision is legitimately a health benefit and cuts (hehe) down on risk of infection and other complications. Female circumcision is solely to make sex unenjoyable. Males retain full functionality and sex still feels completely fine.
I just think circumcision should be a decision parents can make for their kid. Just like abortion. The thing about infection is yeah, proper hygiene fixes it but if there's even less of a chance why not do it? It's cultural too. Like you said, if we decided to cut all breast tissue out of females it would become normal but the thing is, breasts have a function to feed babies. Penises don't lose functionality with circumcision. Yeah, it desensitizes it a bit but that's really not a problem considering you never knew what you don't have. It still feels completely fine. At the end of the day I would've been fine with either. I don't wake up everyday and wish I had foreskin. I think it's something parents should be able to decide since it just doesn't have that much of a negative impact. It's just one of those things to me
I mean the other thing is that breasts are a physical trait that's right there all the time. Foreskin is never in view to the general public and doesn't make you look different. There's a pretty big difference but it's still just a cultural thing. The removing of foreskin has the health benefits, while at this point in history isn't really too much of a benefit but the female circumcisions don't do anything whatsoever to benefit them which is why it's different. I mean as a culture grows things change. Asians used to bind feet and do the plank on the head thing for a flatter face/head. Now they don't do it as much if at all. Male circumcision is probably very similar to that. Maybe it'll be phased out within the relative future. Idk but all I know is I personally don't find it to be a huge deal. As far as I knew I was born this way and when I learned that my parents chose to have me circumcised it wasn't a life changing event and I never thought of it as weird. I mean of course now that I'm older I wonder what it'd be like if I wasn't circumcised but I also wonder what it'd be like to have a vagina. Just doesn't seem like a big deal. When you circumcise a female it offers absolutely zero benefit and only negatives. At least with males you have the hygiene thing, even if it is nearly irrelevant at this point in history, it's still a benefit, if only a minor one. Also not to mention the complications, like if it's too tight and need to have surgery as a younger teen/around puberty which would suck more than if they were originally just circumcised.
The thing about it hurting an infant is they don't remember it so it basically just didn't happen in their mind. If nobody told me I would've never known. As someone who's circumcised I think it's fine. My quality of life is no worse than someone who isn't in that aspect.
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What's crazy to me about the argument about it being normal is that its only normal in the States and the middle east. That's like 10% of the men in the world, tops. It's decidedly NOT normal.
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http://www.circinfo.net/rates_of_circumcision.html I found a few articles like this one. The newest one I could find used data from 2012 which is based on a global population of 7 billion and uses circumcision prevalence in that time. The trend in all of them seems to be that since around the turn of the millennia the prevalence in non Muslim countries has dropped pretty quickly. Estimates went down from about 40% to about 30% in 12 years. Since then the prevalence has continued to drop and the population of countries that definitely don't circumcise (India and china especially) continues to grow rapidly thus lowering this percentage even further. Based on these trends I'd say about 27% of the world's men are circumcised. Not as little as I previously said, but still extremely low. Also, it's estimated that only 10% of the world's non-muslim males are circumcised (this is also based on older statistics, so it's probably lower now too).
And this is just a strange paper I found while researching. It uses the approach of "the more correlations, the more likely there is causation" which is obviously flawed, but it doesn't make it less interesting to read. http://www.circumcision.org/harmswomen.htm
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To be fair, it is usually a lot worst for a girl. For a guy it has consequence and can have bad ones, but for a girl it always has heavy consequences
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That is fucked up
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My perspective as a man with his foreskin is that masturbation is better than sex with a condom but not as good as sex without one. So basically, I never get that pent up sexual energy when I've gone for a while without sex.
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Can you squeeze your dick tightly whilst jerking it? If so then I agree, if not then yeah you're missing out.
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They have the same letters of Paul because they are modern letters post empire split
I don't believe in any aspect of the New Testament but I am aware of its origins clearly coming from the second century and no earlier
You can believe in anything you want, but suggesting it's based on fact instead of faith is silly
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Nothing you said does not dispute my assertion that mra is a white atheists movement with no intention dealing with issues affecting minority men- the only crime reform ever discussed here is how to protect white men from rape allegations, nothing is ever said about felons rights or better services in prisons or restoring voting rights to felons
How about evaluation of discriminatory housing policies and practices
How about police killing unarmed blacks
The only issues that matter here are stoping rape investigations, banning circumcision and making it fine for men to financially abort their children
What about the drug and suicide and mental health epidemic?
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Ok so I was expecting to get to this anti Jew canard eventually
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satmar_(Hasidic_dynasty)
These are the Satmars and they are the whipping boy of the anti Semite media, like you, for about 100 years
The Satmars engage in oral transmission during circumcision, all your cites about herpes, masturbating rabbis, and sex crimes by Jews involve this group
They have 144,000 members, nearly all live in two area of Brooklyn and in one area of Israel
Your videos are of Satmar bris, everything you are talking about involves them- they are nuts
They are not mainstream Jews and do not even represent others Chasid who threw them out and split if, they are Lubavitch who perform circumcision using a clamp and scalpel, the Satmars use the various instruments you posted
Anyway, oral transmission during circumcision was actually illegal in New York, the only place Satmars practice, for 20 years- bill deblasio unbanned it due to concerns it would affect Muslims, go figure
Oral transmission is like fgm, it's a buzzar thing the do, it does not effect me so I don't care and I don't support regulating religion, but it is not representative of main stream or even extreme Jewish faith
Mosses mendalsin was a hack and all of his children converted to Islam, he also advocated the end of kosher, lots of Jews are not huge fans- fun thing about being Jewish is we have lots of options
I prefer Rambam and his 13 principles of the Jewish faith, it's a good read
The Satmars live in Williamsburg, they have big fur hats and knee socks, you can't miss them, call them up and complain
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You do realize Jews believe we do circumcision because we are commanded to? Not because are wives or children did anything wrong
Jacob, the creator of the 12 tribes was circumcised as a child because god told issac to circumcise him at 8 days, we follow that commandment, the Jewish faith is based on over 600 commandments- most involve prayers some involve ritual washing and some are about circumcision
You don't become a "proper Jew" by being circumcised, your not a Jew at all because you have rejected the faith and its commandments, you have chosen to appease gentiles instead of god and live a path of selfishness
As the bring masturbated, I explained clearly that you are referring to the Satmars and their practices, I was not masturbated and I have never seen a baby jacked off at a bris, it's a very fast procedure- you don't have to like it but you can at least stick to facts
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Did you just equate being religious to being a nazi?
Also, I get your posting things from the Old Testament that I am supposed to be mad at but I again remind you I don't believe government should be regulating religion- gays in Israel actually can not force rabbis to give them a Jewish wedding like in America
If you like you may also google a thing called the Talmud Put in your cite and then read the commentary by rashi, Hillel, Rambam- they are very illuminating on the Torah
I don't see any of the things you cited as shocking
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Yes it should be legal, it's practice in no way effects me and I have no problem with it being performed
My understanding is that since it is not in the Quran and not done by the prophet it is not religious
A counter point is child marriage, which is in the Quran and is legal in Muslim countries and I again do not care
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I think circumcision is bizarre and I'm certainly not defending it, but I've heard it's supposed to be a cleanliness thing. A woman I work with was talking about her son's circumcision and she said no one had told her you had to continuously pull the skin back afterwards so it heals properly or it can require further surgeries and apparently it's not entirely uncommon. Ugh just why
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Dude, stop making shit up. You're not 'put down' for vasectomies. They rub some numbing agent on your balls, then you get two shots and you're done. The operation involves cutting two tiny holes in the side of your balls and nipping the vas deferens.
You keep claiming outrageous things about circumcision in America. Please point me to an article to a man involuntarily being circumcised in the last 50 years while going in for an unrelated operation.
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Perhaps you should delete your bullshit post if you find the criticism of your actions 'fair'.
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Wait, are you defending an adult (say a 34 year old) having sex with a 13 year old? Are you arguing that an age of consent of 13 is acceptable? Because it's not.
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I haven't been to those countries, I'm not sure how it works. I doubt it's normal or "encouraged" for a 40 year old to have sex with someone just on the other side of their age of consent. Just because it isn't legal doesn't mean that it's normal or acceptable. Maybe it doesn't deserve jail time but the public shaming might be enough of a deterrent for most. For example, where I live I assume the age of consent is 18. No one I know would encourage a relationship between an 18 year old and a 40 year old.
And let me ask you this - I wonder if prostitution is legal in these countries with a low age of consent, and when people are allowed to work in prostitution legally - is it the same as the age of consent?
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So you seem to be saying that teenagers having sex is morally wrong or a bad decision because most people below the age of 18 are unable to make good decisions.
Has it occurred to you that maybe it's just not that big of a deal if teenagers have sex, especially if it's with protection? Maybe it can actually be a good decision?
When is it OK to have sex, in your opinion, and why is that an OK time?
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[+]RuairidhSam points [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link
It's true that's there's many types, but I'd hardly call that insane woman an anthropologist. She thinks a clitoris can't be removed without killing a woman. I mean, what??? I guess clitoridectomies are just a form of suicide then.
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]RuairidhSam points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I also think both should be banned - it still seems insane to me that she can say a clitoridectomy would kill a woman. By no means is it a small matter or pleasant, but it's not an Achilles' heel.
The story was about a doctor in the US, so I took it to mean that even in a modern clinical setting it's lethal. If that wasn't the context, then my bad. It would still be survivable, just also much more dangerous, as any surgery outside of a sterile hospital setting would be.
[–]bufedad 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[+]NotYourNoodles points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
The clitoris is much larger than the part that's visible. Here
[–]SomeWhat92 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]RuairidhSam points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Perhaps I'm a little confused, but why would it automatically kill a woman? The procedure exists to excise it, so it doesn't follow that it would kill a woman. Like you said, it would just be a more surgical procedure.
I imagine the lack of sterilisation during the time these practises developed and the fact that most of the clitoris extends inside and is not visible influenced that FGM doesn't remove the clitoris, but that's just a guess.
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[+]anothergodamnaccount points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
How about we just outlaw circumcision? It's far worse for girls than boys with this, but either gender shouldn't suffer this.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WhellEndowed -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]snowclick points [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link
I mean I don't think male and female circumcision is comparable. Male circumcision is legitimately a health benefit and cuts (hehe) down on risk of infection and other complications. Female circumcision is solely to make sex unenjoyable. Males retain full functionality and sex still feels completely fine.
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points (17 children) | Copy Link
[+]snowclick points [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link
I just think circumcision should be a decision parents can make for their kid. Just like abortion. The thing about infection is yeah, proper hygiene fixes it but if there's even less of a chance why not do it? It's cultural too. Like you said, if we decided to cut all breast tissue out of females it would become normal but the thing is, breasts have a function to feed babies. Penises don't lose functionality with circumcision. Yeah, it desensitizes it a bit but that's really not a problem considering you never knew what you don't have. It still feels completely fine. At the end of the day I would've been fine with either. I don't wake up everyday and wish I had foreskin. I think it's something parents should be able to decide since it just doesn't have that much of a negative impact. It's just one of those things to me
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[+]snowclick points [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
I mean the other thing is that breasts are a physical trait that's right there all the time. Foreskin is never in view to the general public and doesn't make you look different. There's a pretty big difference but it's still just a cultural thing. The removing of foreskin has the health benefits, while at this point in history isn't really too much of a benefit but the female circumcisions don't do anything whatsoever to benefit them which is why it's different. I mean as a culture grows things change. Asians used to bind feet and do the plank on the head thing for a flatter face/head. Now they don't do it as much if at all. Male circumcision is probably very similar to that. Maybe it'll be phased out within the relative future. Idk but all I know is I personally don't find it to be a huge deal. As far as I knew I was born this way and when I learned that my parents chose to have me circumcised it wasn't a life changing event and I never thought of it as weird. I mean of course now that I'm older I wonder what it'd be like if I wasn't circumcised but I also wonder what it'd be like to have a vagina. Just doesn't seem like a big deal. When you circumcise a female it offers absolutely zero benefit and only negatives. At least with males you have the hygiene thing, even if it is nearly irrelevant at this point in history, it's still a benefit, if only a minor one. Also not to mention the complications, like if it's too tight and need to have surgery as a younger teen/around puberty which would suck more than if they were originally just circumcised.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[+]snowclick points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
The thing about it hurting an infant is they don't remember it so it basically just didn't happen in their mind. If nobody told me I would've never known. As someone who's circumcised I think it's fine. My quality of life is no worse than someone who isn't in that aspect.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+]snowclick points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
False equivalency. I think if someone wants to have an abortion after birth it's totally fine. People have this weird thing about death.
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