I used to have very long hair until I was 18, mostly because I was part of a ballet company and long hair was needed from everyone so we could do matching hairstyles for shows. Then I moved for Uni and I decided that since I kept my hair up all the time because I hated it, I might as well cut it. My Mom was so upset by this she called my Dad to call me to tell me not to do it. The usual "boys won't like you" "girls should have long hair" "but your hair is so pretty" came but I still got a short pixie. Then two years later I decided to stop spending money on upkeep so I just shaved it into a very short buzzcut. Judging by everyones reactions at home I may as well have committed the greatest sin known to man. One of my friends actually started tearing up to cry because she was upset on my behalf even though I said I wanted to shave it, did shave it, loved having it shaved. I kept it shaved for almost two years then grew it out a bit. Hated it. Shaved it again. Now it's back to shoulder length mostly so my relatives would stop commenting on it. It did not work because now they make the over the top complimentary comments. "See now you look so much better because your hair is feminine" "Never cut it again" "Your hair looks sooooooooooo pretty now" etc. Thing is, I still hate it. Having hair irritates me. It takes time to wash it, it always gets in my eyes and face, it ruffled in the wind. I want to shave it again so bad but I dread the comments coming up again. Why do people think I need to have long hair because I am a girl? Why do I have to take everyone's opinions into account about how my hair should look when it is my head? I don't even want them to like it or anything, just to shut up about it.
Edit: So a couple of things to add context:
My home country is very conservative and obviously my parents grew up in that. People literally stare at you on the street if you have "weird" hair and you can be fired if people suspect you might be gay or "unnatural." (Not my words)
I am asexual and have no interest in boys or dating, I am out to my parents, the boy comments still come.
I am already LC or NC with the majority of my relatives and the only reason I don't insult anyone is because they go after my Mom for it. She does shut them down when they try to have a go at me about my piercings so I don't want to add to the mess she has to deal with.
[–]michalus22 572 points573 points574 points (57 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I am expected to have short hair.
[–]syro23 187 points188 points189 points (11 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I have no hair.
[+]AmadeusSpartacus6 points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
Bro I learned to love it. I went bald by the time I was 25 so I buzzed my whole head with a #1 trimmer, and I never looked back.
No more upkeep, no more haircut appointments, no more worrying about if my hair looks OK or if my receding hairline looks terrible. I look sharp and well-kept even if I haven't showered, because my head is always streamlined and freshly cut.
I've spent $80 total on hair care over the last 10 years on 2 pairs of hair clippers. Once a week I shave the whole thing (hair and beard) with the same length clipper. I highly recommend it to anyone with a badly receding hairline like myself.
I was always nervous about shaving it because I have a gigantic head, but you know what? Buzzing actually makes my huge head look better. Instead of looking like I'm trying to cover it up with thinning hair, now it looks like I want to show it off.
Just my 2 cents. Take ownership of it, don't let it own you. Best of luck, man.
[–]WolfgangsPL 15 points16 points17 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Great advice! Keep that attitude to whatever you do and whole life will be yours. Thanks!
[–]syro23 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks, I used to do a #2 but switched to a #1 last week actually and its sooo much quicker and faster upkeep and while I miss the long hair I had in my teens, I'm embracing it.
[–]peaches-in-heck 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Same here! 15 years, 0 regrets. I can’t understand why men want to cover up obviously thinning domes. And I can’t fathom how much money is spent by humans to care for hair. I literally shave with a discount razor I buy in bulk. One box lasts a whole year. Sometimes I’ll let it grow out and use my clippers. I have a big beard too.
And people say I look good! Like, genuinely, I get compliments and people say “well yeah YOU look good but....” and I’m like “no, it’s just a good healthy look if you do it right, and almost anyone can do it”.
[–]Trolleficus 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
When my hair starts to go away I'm going to do the same thing and look forkin awesome as a bald dude ,in a leather jacket&wearing sunglasses!
[–]surveysaysno 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Like the first monkey shot into space. Space monkey!
[–]Ariliescbk 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm scared that if/when I go bald, I'll just look like a thumb.
[–]buntyisbest 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm slowly heading that route.
[–]KYbebop 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm in that club.
[–]michalus22 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I feel sorry for you.
[–]EgalitarianGirl777 64 points65 points66 points (19 children) | Copy Link
Besides being expected, some schools make it mandatory for boys to have short hair. Very sexist in my opinion.
[–]michalus22 16 points17 points18 points (17 children) | Copy Link
I suppose this is US thing, right?
[–]EgalitarianGirl777 17 points18 points19 points (15 children) | Copy Link
Yes. I’m not sure about other countries though.
[–]CrimsonPE 13 points14 points15 points (11 children) | Copy Link
Im from Peru, and yes, it is the same here, and as far as Im aware, it´s the same in almost, if not all, latin America. It has to do more with being "appropriately dressed", rather than "looking like a girl" tho (same as using uniforms).
[–]EgalitarianGirl777 11 points12 points13 points (5 children) | Copy Link
I understand. That’s the same reason my school had that policy. It was a Catholic school and I never understood how they thought long hair on men was a bad thing if the depictions they had of Jesus always portrayed him with long hair. It’s essentially saying that they believe Jesus wasn’t presentable. It was funny whenever we mentioned that and the teachers obviously had no answers.
Either way, whatever reason, it’s still sexist standards in my opinion. To say that men aren’t appropriately dressed unless their hair is a certain length makes no real sense to me. If anything, men usually have more hair than women, so why wouldn’t it be the reverse? People shouldn’t dictate what other people look like and should just worry about themselves.
[–]CrimsonPE -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
I agree, up to a point. Yes, the fact that long hair normally is related to women only and that men should have it short is real AND it is sexist. But also, many kids or teens that have long hair, have it disheveled. To be frank, not many, but almost all. These rules I think are done to avoid having to deal with that.
Remember that institutions (and while you are wearing a uniform, you are representing an institution) have an image to protect, so having their students all dressed like they want (t-shirt outside their pants, disheveled hair, tattoos, etc.) may prove detrimental to that. I mean, students sign an agreement, and so do parents, before getting their child into one school. If they don't want to, they can sign them into another. While I do agree that these rules affect people that do use a comb (lol), most don't, and ultimately, they are not enforcing anything all sides haven't agreed beforehand.
[–]EgalitarianGirl777 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Most kids and teens I’ve seen kept their hair brushed. But still, girls are allowed to have their hair long even if they don’t brush it. Therefore, it doesn’t make much sense for that the be their logic.
[–]CrimsonPE 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
It's mostly anectodal experience, as you can see. May be different from where u are from.
I only saw disheveled guys with long hair. Most, if not all of people with short hair had it brushed. Girls almost always had it brushed and carried a brush and a pocket mirror too, so they never had it disheveled. Not even once during all my childhood even heard of it being a gender thing, not from my friends, teachers, nor parents.
That's in schools, tho. Can't speak for military or other stuff. Neither for all schools, just from the one I was and the ones I know people from. In fact, i used to go back there to pick up my younger brother while I was already at university (and my hair was long). Said hi to the teachers and such, they just told me I should brush it or cut it while laughing. Again, never mentioned something about gender. Just my 2 cents
Sorry if I appear confrontational too, english isn't my first language, but reading this wall of text again kinda gives me that impression (sadly).
[–]EgalitarianGirl777 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I understand. I think maybe it does depend on where you live. My school’s reasoning was that girls were supposed to have long hair and wear a specific type of white shirt (I honestly can’t remember what it’s called, but it’s not a regular polo shirt like the boys had) with black, yet see-through stockings in the winter and black socks in the summer, while boys were supposed to have short hair, a black polo shirt, and tan khakis. The boys also couldn’t have a beard or mustache for some reason, which was really weird. Bras were also required for the girls in high school even if they weren’t developed or had medical issues with wearing one. I personally preferred to wear one, but the choice should still be given, especially for medical reasons.
It was all based on sexist stereotypes of how young boys and girls should look. I hated wearing skirts, because my underwear would be visible and I’m just not a skirt type of person (I only wear t-shirts and regular jeans). When I got older, I started wearing shorts underneath, though they technically weren’t allowed. The school said that it was because girls need to look modest, but there’s literally a fetish with school girls in short skirts and stockings, so if anything, regular pants and a t-shirt would have been more modest, in my opinion. Even though I wore my skirt at my knees, the wind from outside or sometimes the shutting or opening of a door would blow it up past my waist, which happened to all of the girls I knew, so many times people could see everything. I would always change as soon as I could, since it was so uncomfortable.
I just believe that as long as kids are still able to learn, then let them dress and look how they want, within reason.
[–]CrimsonPE2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
Hmm the different type of shirt seems weird. Like a blouse? The beard was the same in my case, but it was because people liked to left it uncut for weeks if they could, and kids or teens don't really have a nice looking beard mostly lol
I can't emit an option when it comes to bras tho, haven't wear one lol so I will take your word on it.
In my school, skirts should be just a bit below the knee, so pretty long ones (I guess), and girls used to wear shorts underneath them, but they were allowed. Don't get why that wouldn't be, in your case.
What I do thought (and still do) was innapropiate (although being a teen, didn't really complain - because everyone would mock me... And hormones), was the girl's sport uniform. Normally it would be the same shirt than us, and normal pants. However, while we got shorts, they had to use really tight shorts, like leggins, but in shorts. They weren't forced to use that during PE, but the ones that did, well, got many obnoxious looks (some did it because it was easier to run, others because they liked the attention, but I rather don't comment on it).
I agree with you in almost, if not all your points tbh. I didn't like the uniforms, not one bit, and hated using them. However, I can see why they are enforced. Still, I think many should get a revision and be changed.
Nice talking to u (or writing? Haha). Have a nice week :)
[–]bufedad 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
If it was about being "appropriately dressed" girls wouldn't be allowed either.
"Appropriately dressed" is what they use so they don't have to say, "so you don't look like a girl".
[–]CrimsonPE -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
Not necessarily. While in some cases, yes; in most (and as someone that liked having long hair, have experienced), it´s because they have it disheveled. I never was told that I looked like a girl or anything because my hair is curly, but they always said I could have a nest of birds over there, and that it looked (and I admit it) bad.
I always got into trouble for that, and they explained to me that. Tbh, more than 95% of people I saw (not only from my school -and it wasn't a bad one or cheap one-), didn't really care about dressing properly (t-shirt outside pants, disheveled hair, etc.), so that´s why those rules were enforced.
They don't care how do you dress, as long as you are not wearing the school´s uniform. If you do, then you are representing that institution and should comply with their rules (that you must have agreed on beforehand).
University is dif, no uniforms, so everyone can use whatever they want. At least, that is how I see it and how it was explained to me
[–]bufedad 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
And yet, this rule is only applied to boys, when girls do this as well... funny.
[–]NotCis_TM 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
http://g1.globo.com/ma/maranhao/noticia/2015/07/de-biquini-estudantes-protestam-contra-normas-de-conduta-na-ufma.html
In Brazil there seems to be little in terms of official dresscodes for public universities. (But most people will never wear bathing suits outside of protests and maybe schools on costal cities)
[–]CrimsonPE 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Same here. People can dress whatever they want in universities and colleges. Well, tbf, there are some places in brasil that are REALLY hot haha at least, for my tastes
[–]13rokendreamer 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm from India, and yes it is a norm for boys to have short hair
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
We have that in Indian schools as well.
Having a long hairstyle would land you in the principal's office
[–]Metrack14 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Other country here. Yes, there are schools that is mandatory
[–]StruggleWest 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Not at all. It happens in India too mate. I've seen the prinicpal and head teachers humiliate boys by beating the crap out the them in the assembly in front of everyone. And worse, I've seen them tying the boys' hair with rubber bands and making them look like 5 year old girls. It's very enmasculating!!
[–]VIIIMan 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
My son's school is like that. They also have to wear khaki pants and a polo shirt.
[–]michalus22 118 points119 points120 points (18 children) | Copy Link
My hair is longer than pretty much all women I know
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx 55 points56 points57 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Damn feel you. My hair isn't even long but my dad always jokes about it. Before that he would always force me to cut it.
[–]TrueCuspOfPower 35 points36 points37 points (0 children) | Copy Link
My girlfriend hates that I have nicer hair than she does, likes me to keep it long so that, as she says "one of us has beautiful hair" 🤣😂
[–]buffafboii 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Can relate. Those subtle comments about it that slowly eat away at your self confidence, it’s crushing.
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Just yesterday my dad asked if i was still "stubborn" about my hair.
[–]Taha_Amir 24 points25 points26 points (10 children) | Copy Link
Because of some dumb rule in my college, I can't keep long hair.
Idk for what fucking reason they feel the need to do this though, like, they shouldn't be allowed to have a say in how i want to look. Sure, dying hair can be considered 'slightly distracting' in the sense that a student will have attention for literally 5 seconds and the convo moves on.
I live in a conservative country btw.
Girls can keep short hair though, just guys who cant let their hair grow out.
Fucking hate it here. Even my school never let me keep long hair (i still managed to do it though since they got tired of telling me to cut it)
But yeah, people shouldn't get to dictate stuff about other people's bodies
[–]Namedoesntmatter89 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
maybe we can make an exception to smelling like ass. that can be highly irritating.
[+]Asopaso07 -25 points-24 points-23 points (8 children) | Copy Link
Imagine being told you need to wear makeup/heels at your job, or be responsible for birth control in long term relationships or not be allowed to have an abortion or that you’re a slut if you sleep with a certain amount of men.
You wouldn’t last more than 2 minutes as a woman if hair bothers you 😂
[–]Taha_Amir 14 points15 points16 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Its not really a competition, but your lack of understanding the flaws of society is part of the reason why we can't move forward as a whole
[+]Asopaso07 -13 points-12 points-11 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Calm down bro, it’s not that deep...
[–]Taha_Amir 10 points11 points12 points (2 children) | Copy Link
So... Suddenly its not deep?
I dont really wanna repeat myself, maybe try reading my comment once more and figure out what went wrong
[–]Asopaso07 -3 points-2 points-1 points (1 child) | Copy Link
You blamed me for society not moving forward so yeah... that’s extreme. I was being facetious but what I said wasn’t wrong.
You should know better with an Asian sounding name. The women in your life probably do a tonne of emotional and domestic labour for all the men in the household for free and they probably even have curfews as adults if they’re not wed.
[–]Taha_Amir 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
My phrasing was off. What i meant to say was that people with thoughts like yours are the reason we can't progress as a whole.
While yes, in my country women are treated as bad as slaves sometimes, but part of the reason why we can't get out of this hellish loop is the mindset of the people around us.
From birth, they are taught that women are meant to serve, and men are meant to provide.
If this mindset doesn't change, then neither gender will ever benefit
[–]Half-blind-bear 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah those things are wrong too. How about we make it so you can walk around with the face your momma gave you wearing your air Jordans and my brother here can get his legolas locks flowing. That way everyone's happy instead of your way where everyone compares how unhappy they are.
[–]Drippinice 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Lmao way to miss the point and prove everyone right. I can’t imagine having such little self awareness
[–]Asopaso07 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
I posted a feminist statement in a men’s rights group, obvs it’ll be downvoted to hell. It has nothing to do with self awareness you flippin carrot! It’s about your resistance to the truth ❤️
[–]kaijyuu2016 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Mine is on the way to achieve that too. Long hair gang
[–]BreezyEasy1 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Same lol
[–]Xxbloodhand100xX 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yo same, im just under 6ft with hair down past my knees.
[–]AdmirableFlow 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that i'm expeted to shave my facial hair at most of the workplaces i've been
[–]michalus22 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Also, one funny story, me and my friend (girl) were both misgendered because of hair. When I had short hair and so did she, one teacher came around us once and sad:" hi boys" and then a few years later this same teacher, with the knowledge that she in fact is a girl (I already have quite a long hair then) called us girls. He was a nice person.
[–]thesethmedlin 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Every family gathering it's the same question. "When are you cutting your hair?" And the same answer, "The Great Cut, 2024"
[–]Trolleficus 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yup,I was gonna say the same thing.
[–]notaredditaka 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I am expected to have thick <NW1.5 hairline (Male pattern baldness) if I don't look like the Rock or Jason Statham.
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx 314 points315 points316 points (25 children) | Copy Link
I hate being forced to go military or paying lots of money
[–]Senpai59210 31 points32 points33 points (21 children) | Copy Link
You don't always have to chose one of those 2 options. Trade school is the best decision I've ever made and cost a whole lot less than my sister's college, even with her scholarship. Of course, if you are going into a specific field then expensive college may not be optional
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx 87 points88 points89 points (17 children) | Copy Link
I live in turkey so i am actually forced to go military. But you can pay 11 months worth of minimum wage to not go there.
[–]Senpai59210 37 points38 points39 points (15 children) | Copy Link
Oh damn. And I'm assuming it's specifically for men?
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx 78 points79 points80 points (9 children) | Copy Link
Of course.
[–]Senpai59210 21 points22 points23 points (8 children) | Copy Link
That's unfortunate. I wonder if there's any way to "identify" as a female? I'm not really sure how things work in Turkey so idk
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx 22 points23 points24 points (6 children) | Copy Link
There isn't any way of doing it without surgery afaik. But i will instantly change my gender when it becomes available.
[–]Senpai59210 10 points11 points12 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Well good luck for the time being! At least you probably won't get shot in the military since I'm not aware of any wars involving turkey right now lol
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx 16 points17 points18 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Ah yes haha. It will be probably just cleaning and guard duty. But i am still afraid of the bullying there.
[–]Senpai59210 4 points5 points6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
I would say to beat up the biggest guy on the first day but I can't imagine that would end well in the military...
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx5 points [recovered] | Copy Link
I am not sure i can do that lol
[–]Senpai592103 points [recovered] | Copy Link
Probably not. At least if all of the guys (except for the ones that pay their way out) are in the military, you probably won't get bullied as much. I can't imagine that many of the guys really want to be there or make it any harder than it has to be
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx4 points [recovered] | Copy Link
I hope so.
[–]A-sop-D 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Even if it were possible to magically identify as a woman, I know what I'd rather choose if I were Turkish
[–]schmadimax 8 points9 points10 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Same thing goes here in Austria, you turn 18 and you're done with school or an apprenticeship you get called to the Army for 6 months. After you are part of the draft until you turn 40 I believe. The only way not to do the Army is instead to do 9 months doing civil service which I've heard from friends that did it instead of what I did – go to the army – that it was the worst time of their life so there's no good way out of it. It sucks because you only get paid 350€ a month for doing the 6 months service.
[–]Senpai59210 4 points5 points6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
That sucks! As many issues as the US has, I'm glad I don't have to deal with any of the mandatory military shit. It's funny, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to join the army if I wanted to because I have a history of "mental health problems" (ADD, lol)
[–]schmadimax 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Oh there's serving you do when you're 17 where they do some physical and psychological tests on you to see if you can even join the army, if not then you're exempt. It's a 0-9 system 0-4 being that you can't join and 5-9 meaning you have to do your 6 months, I actually and a lot of people try to get rejected by either doing the tests badly on purpose or saying things in the interviews to not have to do it so in a test where they ask about drugs I said yes, I smoke lots of weed, didn't help me though as I still got a 5.
[–]Senpai59210 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I wonder what score you would get if you told them that you do a ton of coke and hookers in your free time lol
[–]schmadimax 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn't get a number, I'd have gotten prison time hahaha
[–]Panderjit_SinghVV 9 points10 points11 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Men mostly being relegated to trades is just what the feminists want.
The fewer educated men the less power men have in society and the more bigoted and cruel feminist policy controls our lives.
[–]thwip62 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
But then the women who earn north of 100k will complain about the lack of "eligible" men because of the abundance of blue-collar guys and the deficit of suits.
[–]CryptocurrencyMonkey 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Except they can literally force men to join the military.
[–]capitan_cruiser 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Lol where I live women are forced into the military too.. although they do have to serve half a year less than men.
[–]ahsjsklslsnxnx 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Its still discrimination tho
[–]capitan_cruiser 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Better than nothing so already much better, the real discrimination is in some bases commanders prefer girls to not do any work that the guys do (physical lifting and moving)
[–]hudibrastic 264 points265 points266 points (15 children) | Copy Link
This post came directly from 1954
[–]Taha_Amir 52 points53 points54 points (13 children) | Copy Link
Funny because this shit still happens
[–]__pulsar 57 points58 points59 points (12 children) | Copy Link
All of the comments she received that she's mad about came from other women...
[–]Drayenn 26 points27 points28 points (11 children) | Copy Link
Her post wasnt about men being sexist, it was about expectations for women and how it annoys her she cant do what she wants without getting annoying comments.
[–]Oncefa2 8 points9 points10 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Is this really a thing?
Like do people think you're a lesbian or something if you have short hair?
I've always found it to be attractive on a woman.
Like there are "girly" haircuts for short hair.
[–]Lobstrosity187 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, it’s a real thing
[–]BeastlyDecks 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Doesn't help that a lot of lesbians cling to holding that stereotype alive themselves. I hear many say they look "obviously lesbian" and substantiating that with nothing more than them having short hair and maybe wearing pants...
There's this very weird interplay between identity politics needing very visible tokens and the feedback loop of expectations that are then perpetuated because of this. I guess it helps their cause in the end, since it's an endless supply of harmless victimhood that can be complained about.
[–]Drayenn 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Short hair is definitely associated a lot with lesbians... especially buzz cuts, which she got.
[–]__pulsar 39 points40 points41 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Yeah but she went out of her way to avoid the obvious, which is that it's other women who are trying to influence what she does with her hair. Instead she talks about vague societal expectations which we all know implies that men are the ones to blame.
[–]mchugh-02 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn’t say she went to “avoid the obvious” all she did was say she’s upset that she is judged by her family and friends for having short hair and doesn’t like how people look at her different. Saying that she directed this post at men is a bit of a stretch IMO, she’s just upset that she’s judged by every1
[–]Drayenn -3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Youre reading too much into it imo. Youre just inserting your own bias in her post.
[–]__pulsar 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Nope. I'm sick and tired of women not taking responsibility for their actions by blaming "society."
[–]Drayenn -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
How is "take responsability for your actions" a reasonable take about a girl cutting her hair short?
I think its entirely reasonable for her to be at least mildly annoyed.
There are bonkers feminist scenarios out there but this scenario isnt one of them.
[–]ApprehensiveWheel32 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
The horror. The tragedy. The utter inhumanity!
[–]Drayenn -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
If people kept complaining to you about something you like youd hate it too, no need to downplay her post like that
[–]Yo-boi-Pie 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You know what else came from 1954? Godzilla
[–]BananaBomber456 104 points105 points106 points (5 children) | Copy Link
how is that title relevant to the post at all? Let people have their own problems lol
[–]classy-insanity 13 points14 points15 points (2 children) | Copy Link
thank you for saying that lol. i was hoping there was someone decent here
[–]Abeyep 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Everyone is decent here my friend , almost
[–]classy-insanity 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
yeah sorry,, this was the first good comment that i saw. after i kept scrolling i found more. but still
[–]Spiteful_Guru 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
This sub seems to be one of those faux-progressive groups that, when a more marginalized group has any sort of problem, will try to shift attention away from the issue, like "all lives matter" and such. And it's a real shame, because there are some valid points made here, but their legitimacy is somewhat diminished by those points primarily being used to undermine the more pertinent issue of women's rights.
[–]RockmanXX 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
As if the real progressive groups are any less of a joke.
I can accept that certain minority groups are more marginalized but to claim that 50% of human population are "more marginalized" is bullshit claim.
Why is women's rights more pertinent? let me guess... Society is set up to benefit men and opress women? Well, that's feminist mythology, not reality.
[–]halftrackwar 71 points72 points73 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I don’t think this should be here IMO she’s more complaint about her family having a problem with her hair being short.
[–]ArguTobi 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Second this.
IMO Op is also comparing apples and bananas.
[–]Doc_Brun 76 points77 points78 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah this was a weird jump
[–]ZeldaVelveeta 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Stretch before you reach, everyone
[–]-Soggy-Potato- 94 points95 points96 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Why make it a competition? These types of posts are so mind numbingly childish and unproductive
Just respect that different groups have unique issues that specifically relate to them, at worst you can acknowledge it as an issue some people face, then move on with your life and work on the issues more closely related to your own unique identity / group
There’s really no need to be dismissive, it just makes this movement come across as bitter and reactionary. Putting down other peoples valid frustrations is not a helpful way to get people to care about your own valid frustrations
It would be so much better to bring this post up in its own individual context, without comparing it with a clearly contextually different issue unrelated to men specifically
It’s not about men versus women, not matter how much you want it to be or how desperate you are to paint yourself as the sole victim in society
It’s about men and women versus the unique and individual injustices they face in wider society
[–]somnicrain 41 points42 points43 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Why is this cross posted? And what does what you have to say have to do with she is dealing with?
[–]Jonathananas 42 points43 points44 points (0 children) | Copy Link
How does this have anything to do with r/mensrights? It's just saying "Oooh damn woman is tired of people being dicks, well we have it harder >:(".
We're all being treated poorly man.
[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This post kinda stupid, why would you take her problem and make a competition out of it?
[–]benderXX[S] 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I posted. For all the haters who want to convince themselves that men’s rights should concern itself exclusively with dad’s fighting the courts or their son’s fighting to clear their names after a bad date, give your head a shake.
To win in court you have to fight a culture that convinced women hair styles make them a victim. This noise is everywhere. Calling the culture out in its BS is not petty. It’s how you get innocent people free from jail, dads access to their kids, equal access to educational resources and even healthcare.
[–]gray-matterz 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Great post! I would upvote a million time if I could.
I think it is true that some women or groups have an agenda or are opportunists. Tbh, if I were raped I might not be so kind towards men (even though I think only a minority of men are creeps and there are women who are too [Epstein/Maxwell]). The squeaky wheel gets the oil. In Buddhist cultures, squeaking is frowned upon btw, which might explain the number of despots they have. Religion is the opium of the people and no state will crack on that (unless there is another competing one around). But I digress.
It is also true that women are the victims of commercialisation (by the same group that use women to weaken men). But I could be wrong. Women can force men to buy more stuff too. The elite has a vested interest in keeping us all very obedient and law (bad law) obiding ... and spending. All these sub rules too, but I digress. Again.
[–]CannyToon 178 points179 points180 points
2 (55 children) | Copy Link
This post is why I'm hesitant to call myself a men's rights activist. There are so many people who just make it about themselves in this community. It's so much "oh you have a problem, well have you heard about MY problem?" Fuck society and the things men have to go through because of standards and unfair laws, but let's not invalidate every problem women face, it won't gain us any support. Extreme feminists/man haters have used that tactic and it's clearly not working since it's only building resentment towards them. Let's be better than them. Instead of invalidating them and their problems, show them that you're there for them and you're doing your part to make the world a better place
[+]PerfectSnakeFire1 points [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
Her post is about how all the women in her life don't support her.
Her mother had her father call her, because she can't be bothered to handle the responsibility herself.
For myself, my ex-wife cut her hair short once and I made sure to tell her how much I liked it and how cute it was... except it was women who gave her grief about it.
Never doubt that it's other women who give women shit about how they look, not men.
[–]CannyToon 19 points20 points21 points (8 children) | Copy Link
You're a good man. I'm not gonna get into the whole debate about who gives who shit for what. All i know is that women face hardships, but they are also privileged in some instances, and the exact same thing goes for men
[–]__pulsar -3 points-2 points-1 points (6 children) | Copy Link
What privileges do men have?
Outside of biological advantages (which aren't really privileges) I'm struggling to think of any.
[–]icannotgetaname 3 points4 points5 points (5 children) | Copy Link
The fact that men typically get more opportunities when it comes to things related to physical activities because people think men are naturally better at it then women, people usually look down on men a lot less for sleeping around, trans men aren’t actively having their ability to play sports with their own gender taken away from them, and men get raped significantly less. These are all well known facts and the fact that you are “struggling to think of them” mr u/__pulsar either means you don’t listen to anything other than things that say women are way better off than men in every single way or that you know these things but chose to ignore them because if you listened to them you couldn’t be a misogynist. This is why we need good MRA activists not these ignorant assholes.
[–]electricalnoise 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You got a source or is this anecdotal?
By who, exactly? One could argue the people "looking down on" women are other women. When push cones to shove, guys generally don't really give a shit. Again, anecdotal.
Because trans men haven't had testosterone flowing through their system for their entire lives creating denser bones and muscles then transitioning to beat the living shit out of biological men maybe? You really think it's remotely fair for a recently transitioned woman to square off with a biological woman? I don't think anyone really wants to see that, except for ideological crazy people with no grip on reality.
So we're not counting prison rapes because it makes your narrative fit, right? How about we include all rape victims?
But not really, though, huh? It seems to me you're as biased as the person you're replying to.
[–]Drippinice -2 points-1 points0 points (2 children) | Copy Link
So nothing real and all assumptions? Go away concern troll. I’m sick of comments like yours getting upvotes when it’s obviously just feminist talking points about mra instead of anything real
[–]BeastlyDecks 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The fact that something is a talking point of your opponent does not make it untrue. If a stereotypical SJW for example dismisses all of your correct views about the need for familial stability for men and women in society, let's say, because those are also white supremacist talking points, you would be able to see it as the fallacy it is, I assume. So don't act like that. Try instead to address the actual viewpoint and refrain from poisoning the well.
[–]icannotgetaname 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Ahh yes someone you disagrees with you must be a troll. Also do you honestly believe that anything I said in my comment is wrong? I mean some of them are statistically correct so calling them “all assumptions” shows again why we need actual men’s rights activists not men don’t have any privilege and feminism sucks activists. Because you and the person I replied too can’t fathom that feminists have some fair points or that society isn’t 1 sided and only against men. If you are going to argue that actual facts are wrong or that my “assumptions” are not well informed then you need to stop.
[–]__pulsar 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You listed biological advantages which I already acknowledged. Men are naturally better at physical activities than women. It's why you see the best women's soccer team in the world getting destroyed by 15 year old high school boys.
And the sleeping around thing is completely anecdotal.
That's all you have?? Lol
[–]melk8 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This ^
[–]ColonialDagger 10 points11 points12 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Yup, it's shit like this that gives the community a bad name over and over. The good news is that the MRA movement is growing, and it appears that (at least to me) this sort of sentiment is getting very quickly drowned out. At least, I hope it does. It's petty and doesn't matter.
If we get upset that when feminists shut down men's discussions and conferences on issues that primarily or exclusively affect men, or even ones that don't but men are generally ignored (like DV), we can't then turn around and do the same thing to them. We lose all credibility.
Men have issues. Women have issues. Both have societal expectations. Women generally are "expected" to have long hair by society, while boys are literally forced to keep their hair short in most schools, even in the West. One problem does not invalidate the other; both are issues.
[–]CannyToon 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Very well said. Thanks for the addition <3
[–]Letolethe 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Drowned out? Not hardly. 1,700k upvotes making it one of theost popular posts right now. This shit makes this sub shitty.
[–]Lupus_Noir 19 points20 points21 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree. I get that sometimes there can be some extreme posts there, but it doesn't even look like she is blaming it on men. Even if she were, we can't just nitpick every little thing people say.
[–]MakeLSDLegalAgain 53 points54 points55 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, this post is extremely petty of OP.
[–]__pulsar 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't view it that way. I took it as just another example of how women perceive even the slightest disagreement as discrimination.
Her mom and her friend (who's also female) told her to not cut her hair. Yet she blames "society" lmao
[–]JonSnowsGhost 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It's mind boggling how many women fail to realize that "unfair female beauty standards" are created and spread by other women.
Most dudes don't give a fuck about what hair cut a woman has or what color her nails are (I only know like three shades of red, most of that is wasted on me), but somehow it's still our fault.
[–]J_Acer_Striker 36 points37 points38 points (0 children) | Copy Link
^This had to be said
[–]melk8 10 points11 points12 points (7 children) | Copy Link
I agree but I really don’t think anyone is forcing her to have long hair. It doesn’t seem like as big of a problem as, let’s say, rape.
[–]icannotgetaname 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
And how does this have anything to do with this guys comment?
[–]melk8 4 points5 points6 points (5 children) | Copy Link
I highly doubt one can be “oppressed” because they have long hair. They are just grasping at straws to complain about something.
[–]icannotgetaname 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Did the commenter say anything about her being forced to have long hair or being oppressed? Because it looks like you just took a part of the comment that says that women’s problems shouldn’t be invalidated and try to use it as evidence that the commenter says that she was oppressed. And if you are talking about the woman who made the original post she also didn’t say she was oppressed so again I ask. How does this have anything to do with this guys comment?
[–]electricalnoise 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I mean, it was obviously a big enough deal to whinge about it on reddit? "Oh noes people think I should wear my hair a certain way!" How does this poor flower manage to survive every day?
[–]icannotgetaname -2 points-1 points0 points (1 child) | Copy Link
So people can’t complain on social media now?
[–]melk8 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Nah
[–]melk8 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok
[–]kursdragon 8 points9 points10 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Completely agree. I think the post that was crossposted is not unreasonable at all. It's not like they were complaining that men didn't find them attractive when they cut their hair, if this was the case then I could see some backlash. But literally all they were venting about was that their asshole family members and friends were harassing them for having cut their hair, which there is literally nothing wrong for them to complain about? Like what is the purpose of OPs post here? Do you think it's okay that she gets shit on for having cut her hair? If so then you really need to do some reflection as to why you feel that way OP.
[–]CannyToon 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
YES! EXACTLY! This post isn't even about men, and yet OP decided to take it personally. He reminds me of the feminazis who feel oppressed by a man coughing behind them. OG post has nothing to do with him at all, he just wanted to shit on women's problems. How to lose female support for our cause 101
[–]kursdragon 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Completely agree :) glad to see there are at least a couple other reasonable people here, cause tbh sometimes with the posts on here it's hard to tell whether the original reason I joined this sub is still valid or not
[–]Mahameghabahana 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Just what r/Menslib does? You realise that this is MRA not r/feminism right?
[–]Emochind 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Man thanks, how if been feeling about this sub.
[+]mryugideck1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I really dislike post like these without any actual value. Stop being so petty and lets not belittle other peoples issues. Instead, talk about our own struggles in a constructive way.
Dont become the very thing you swore to destroy.
[–]suzuki1369 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM
[–]illithoid 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This exactly puts into words my thoughts on seeing this post.
[–]EvilLothar 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Except that none of that is actual laws and the government being used against women. Everyone has problems, that's called life.. but only western men have problems that are actually systemic and written into law.
[+]CannyToon -7 points-6 points-5 points (5 children) | Copy Link
You are exactly the kind of person i wrote this for. Life isn't a fucking misery competition, the sooner you realise that the sooner you'll stop being miserable. Women have a problem called men, and men have a problem called women. Go do some actual change instead of blaming women for everything. If you're not happy with the laws, propose a change. Not happy with the mentality towards men, speak out about it. Just don't go down the "I'm so much more oppressed than you"-road cause it's a dead end
[–]kaaari 4 points5 points6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Thank you for taking the time to engage in this conversation. I really want to engage in men's rights issues, it's why I'm on this sub. But I get confused about what the point of the discussion here is when every 2nd post is about dragging some OP on TwoX.
[–]EvilLothar 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
You need to understand where the mostly men here are coming from. Some men find this sub as a response to looking for help, and not finding any. Usually when men are looking for help, it's in response to a need.
I need to fix my broken washing machine, I go to the internet for advice/ instructions... you don't try to fix what isn't broken. So, some guys find themselves here because something in their lives is broken... and when guys realize that they have been lied to most of their lives about lots of things (laws are there to protect you, everyone is equal before the law, ect) they get mad....
So lots of the post dragging TwoX are simply guys venting and pointing out the double standards/ hypocracy they are seeing. If these guys do it anywhere else, they get called ists and phobes and the like... so it's a kind of acceptance to see other people seeing it for what it is and agreeing with them.
[–]kaaari 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
But you can point out the double standards without dragging others down. It just seems extremely unhelpful in the goal of advancing men's rights.
[–]EvilLothar 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree, but I'm not all men.
[–]EvilLothar 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
First, I'm not miserable. It looks like you're projecting. You don't know jack shit about me, so don't even pretend. Men are not a problem for women, and women are not a problem for men.. that type of thinking is literally retarded. Feminism is the problem for both men and women. Politicians and feminists making laws that are not gender neutral is the problem...
If you can't see the fact that men are ACTUALLY being discriminated against by the legal system then there is zero hope for you to actually understand what we are fighting against.
[–]Panderjit_SinghVV 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
This is definitely not the right place for people who are more concerned about female problems.
Everywhere else is for those people.
Why come here to derail and gaslight?
[–]CannyToon 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm not sure whether this is directed towards me or OP. but either way, I'm not more concerned about female problems, I'm equally as concerned with male and female problems because they're both valid. I'm just sick and tired of men blaming women for all their problems, same as I'm sick and tired of women blaming men for all their problems, and especially tired of people who instead of having empathy go immediately for the misery competition. "Oh you have that problem? Well i have this problem so I'm more oppressed". No problem will be solved if you go down that path. Instead be supportive of the problems other face, no matter if they're a man or a woman, and if you're unhappy with the current "position" of men, do something to change it. But don't only bring it up when someone else brings up their problem cause that only comes off as "i don't actually care about my problems, I'm just saying this to defend myself"
[–]electricalnoise 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Because open conversation isn't the goal.
[–][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]Jonathananas 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
THIS!
[–]Cryptophagist 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I think that exact hypocrisy is what OP is calling out here. This is why it is getting upvoted. You're right though we need to be better or else what's the point?
[–]Drippinice 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
For the last time, part of men’s rights is debunking feminism and pointing out the double standards. This sub seems to be flooded with concern trolls lately...
[+]bufedad -7 points-6 points-5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Women complain about the gendered expectations of how their hair looks, compared to the gendered expectations that kill men (dangerous and dirty jobs).
And that comparison makes you not a MRA... bullshit. You didn't care about men to begin with.
[–]CannyToon 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
I see you completely missed the point of my comment, that's almost impressive. That's not what i have a problem with, i have a problem with people (not just men) who think life is some sort of misery competition. Op basically said "your problem is invalid because i have this problem" and there are a lot of women doing the same thing and they're equally as annoying.
Yes, working dangerous and dirty jobs is a huge problem, and the fact that the work mortality rates is so much higher among men than among women is alarming, but again, that's not what my comment was about. The fact that men have to deal with dangerous jobs, doesn't mean that women being expected to have long hair isn't a problem
[–]bufedad -3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Ah... you think men should just keep quiet while women complain about comfort problems and men are dying... I get it.
[–]CannyToon 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Again, not what I'm saying. You're about as good at interpreting things correctly as the media is. I think men should speak out a lot more about their problems than they're currently doing, but the way OP did it was not the right way because he's saying it as if the woman's problem doesn't matter just because men has to work in dangerous jobs. You literally quoted me saying "not just men", i made it very clear that i strongly dislike when women do it as well
[–]bufedad -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes... addressing the fact that it's petty compared to real issues... is something you disagree with.
Besides the fact that her issue is fictional. It doesn't matter.
And yet... I can't find anywhere in your comment history where you said anything to women doing this... huh... funny isn't it?
[–]Invadercert 4 points5 points6 points (4 children) | Copy Link
I hat how when one gender tries to put attention on an issue the opposite gender must always pull a whatabout move. like cant we just collaborate and jjust try and tackle these dumb gender expectations
[–]Apricoydog 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
I'd say half the actual issues from both ends stem from the same disease, seems like folks could focus on fixing the problem instead of trying to compare symptoms
[–]Invadercert 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
underrated comment right here. this is an excellent point
[–]Apricoydog 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you <3. It's kinda crazy to me that no one ever brings it up, like how the issue causing sexual objectification of women also causes female-inflicted sexual assault on men to be so completely disregarded, or how expected emotional labor in a mother's role also translates into unfair custodial rights at times for the father, or how sex being viewed as a control mechanism just fucks with everyone in general (although it manifests real differently and in a lot of ways). I'm hoping one day we can all start having that conversation but we're gonna have to get a lot better at listening to each other first, none of us are having a real good time except the assholes keeping things ugly
[–]Invadercert 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
christ my dude chose to speak fax. we need to root out the assholes among each and everyone of our ideologies.
[–]Ed_Radley 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Compared to some of the other stuff I've seen come out of that sub, this is actually kinda based. She realizes she wants it cut short and is only keeping it grown out because she literally was being berated but her family. She doesn't even care if dudes aren't attracted to her.
[–]Ariliescbk 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Are you just trying to hate for the sake of hating? I'm not a fan of that sub, but come on. It's hardly anything to do with political agenda, and more to do with the fact that people are trying to control how she looks. IMHO she's got a valid reason for this complaint. Let people be.
[–]invertedagent 15 points16 points17 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Stop trying to make things a competition. It helps nobody. It harms everybody.
By trying to make this an "I have it worse" deal, you are stooping down to the level of some very shitty people that I personally wouldn't want to be associated with.
[–]xd877 26 points27 points28 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This is pretty petty bro, and also why feminists treat us like a complete joke. Women are allowed to complain just as much as men are.
We spend to much time on the sub screaming about feminists than actually doing shit for men’s rights. I refuse to stoop down to the feminists level, and so should all we.
[–]StressComfortable446 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Why do people feel the need to compete with their problems. If someone is talking about a problem they are dealing with your response shouldnt be "but I have to deal with this thing." Was not like she was comparing her problem to men's issues, was just venting.
[–]riot_ball 39 points40 points41 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Dude stfu. Stop making a counterargument for everything that's on that sub.
[–]Charmingaxelotl 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yikes that comment section
[–]Keeromega 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that my long hair causes women to make assumptions about my character.
[–]HenricusKunraht 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Jesus christ this is stupid
[–]RealCobaltCanine 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that my problems are minimalized and people think that when I'm depressed and literally suicidal and trying to keep myself alive, I look "pissed"
[–]Vista_Seagrape 14 points15 points16 points (13 children) | Copy Link
There's a very one sided view when feminists talk about women's 'emotional labor' and 'unpaid labor.' They ignore the fact that men are expected to do more physical labor, and more dangerous jobs.
This article says men are 10x more likely to die at work.
This article says men are 23x more likely to die at work
[–]-Soggy-Potato- -4 points-3 points-2 points (12 children) | Copy Link
Doesn’t the feminist view sort of even this eventual notion out though?
If women are doing less emotional / unpaid labour surely that would be moreso shared across the man and the woman?
In turn meaning the other side also evens out, with a lesser expectation for just the man to act as a breadwinner for the family, with a more equal distribution of physical and emotional labour as more general ideas of specific gender roles becomes less apparent
Or do the implications for one not reach that far to the other side? I just think more equality on one side would sort of force a shift on the other
Or would the manual aspect still remain the same? With men still typically taking on these more dangerous manual labour jobs due to still prevalent socialised expectations
[–]suzuki1369 6 points7 points8 points (11 children) | Copy Link
I mean, 70 years of feminism has already proved that no it does not even out when you only fight for one side.
[–]-Soggy-Potato- -2 points-1 points0 points (10 children) | Copy Link
I mean, in this example isn’t it common sense?
If women fight against stereotypes of women as homemakers for example, in turn, men will also have less pressure to be sole breadwinners / better encouraged to share chores and care for children
The family life becomes more equal as emotional and physical burdens are shared more equally
In this context, In order for one side to move towards equality the other side in turn does the same
Does this not work? I don’t rlly see what doesn’t make sense here. The demands on one side inherently demand equality from the other
Or are people confusing this context with a wider more ambiguous view
[–]suzuki1369 2 points3 points4 points (9 children) | Copy Link
But men are still expected to be breadwinners while women have the choice. It is why people call parenting your kid babysitting if it is the dad. It is why some women only date people who make more than them. In the past 70 years, women have gotten the freedom to choose while men still have to be the breadwinner.
[–]-Soggy-Potato- 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
Progress has pretty objectively been made through
Statistics prove that domestic chores are more equally shared (if not still putting more of the ‘fun / engaging’ ones like playing with their kid on the dad and taking care of the ill for the mum
Statistics prove more women are working part / full time and more men are taking a more active role in the household when compared with the past regarding chores and taking care of children
Men are now much more easily able to get paternity leave (at least in the UK) and being a stay at home dad is an increasingly tolerated and accepted position for the man in the family
It’s undeniable that progress has been made
In the last 70 years women have been given the opportunity to be independent within and outside of marriage. This in turn leads to the observable and objective increase in number of women working part / full time, sort of undermining the idea that only men are ever expected to be breadwinners
You can be pessimistic if you like but it’s unhelpful to ignore the progress that’s being made. Especially when they are ultimately just negative generalisations
[–]suzuki1369 -1 points0 points1 point (7 children) | Copy Link
Men are still expected to be breadwinners. How many times do you see a SAHD compared to two working parents? Being a stay at home dad is not very accepted as it is still called babysitting when he is just parenting.
[–]-Soggy-Potato- 2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Okay
But my point is progress has been made, and progress is still being made
Stay at home dads and paternity leave were barely even concepts in the past, but as I’m saying progress has been made
Sexist expectations still exist because the past doesn’t just disappear from one generation to the next, people will still likely hold biases and be influenced by their own family structures and the traditional social norms of the past
Undeniable progress has still been made though, it’s just going to take some time for the traditions of the past to further loosen their grip
[–]suzuki1369 -1 points0 points1 point (5 children) | Copy Link
Yes progress has been made but that doesn't negate the irrefutable fact that men are still expected to be breadwinners. I have this bias within myself too.
[–]-Soggy-Potato- 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
And as these feminist notions of less distinct gender roles specifically regarding the family act against traditional ideas of men as breadwinners and women as housekeepers
Men as breadwinners is quite literally incompatible with the more typical or general feminist notions of the family, your original point doesn’t really hold up when using a more specific example of feminist ideas rather than a more general and (I’d argue sort of biased) view
[–]suzuki13691 point [recovered] | Copy Link
It really is compatible. The goal was to make it ok for women to go into the work force, but, and I am putting it very bluntly, it was never made ok for men to be the stay at home parent. SAHF are much less respected than their counterparts and I have already pointed out an example. I feel we are at a stalemate though and will not change each other's minds.
[–]-Soggy-Potato-2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
I may not have specifically mentioned it but the feminist notion strongly supports an equal spread of domestic chores or just a more general push for men to help more domestically
The main reason why SAHD are not accepted is because of traditional notions that men should be breadwinners, and that caring for kids and the house is the woman’s job. Men taking on a traditionally feminine role is wrong
feminist influences that specifically focus on these aspects of family inequality pretty clearly make being a stay at home dad / part time worker as a more valid options. In turn opening more opportunities for men regarding a stronger role in their kids lives and the option for being the primary caregiver
In this specific context, feminism has made lots of progress in jabbing at family gender roles giving both men and women more freedom and independence in how they want to structure their family life, hence why the original idea that equality for one person can lead to equality for the other holds true in this specific case
[–]suzuki13691 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, but you don't really see a lot of pushing for that, all you see is pushing for women to work and not have to take care of the kids, while there isn't anything about it being good to be a SAHD. They only push for one side so it is looked down upon to be a SAHD.
[–]-Soggy-Potato-2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
I’m suggesting that men taking on a more family oriented and domestic role is as an indirect result of the push for women to become more independent
Since the two don’t commonly co-exist (woman don’t really work full time and doing all the domestic tasks), the growing independence of women encourages equality on both sides, pushing for women to have the option to work and men have the option to do the domestic / child based role
The overall family dynamic is more personally crafted in a sense, with general feminist ideas trying to deconstruct the traditional ideas of what men and women should do in the family. People are more free to do what they want, and less shamed for doing so, where men and women can personally decide on the main earner and main domestic worker based around income or personal desires rather than having that dictated by traditional ideas about what each gender should be doing
Sure it generally focuses on women and how gender roles limit women’s opportunity, but even if the intentions don’t line up, the end result in this context is that feminist criticisms of gender roles in the family have led to more equality for men and women, in the form of wider tolerance of individual freedoms of choice
It’s not equal yet, tradition still holds power and SAHD will still face criticism from those who think the domestic lifestyle isn’t for men, but that stance is a decreasing minority, and doesn’t undermine how overall the wider tolerance of doing what the family members individually want has been assisted through general feminist notions
I just generally don’t find it useful to generalise. Yes some aspects of feminism are harmful to men but a trend of this sub it taking that idea too far, to the point where aligning mutual interests and progress has been ignored or gets overlooked in favour of broader statements
[–]Canttakethewhyfromme 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't really get why this post is on here. She is pretty much blaming women for having this expectation on her, which is a refreshing change.
[–]YummyGummyDrops 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Men and women both have issues. Let's not pretend that women can't also have problems.
Just because people have bigger problems doesn't mean smaller problems aren't problems
[–]Papasmurf345 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Most people working in those jobs are men, but I wouldn’t say it’s expected... men work in plenty of jobs that aren’t dangerous or dirty too.
[–]Comet_Hero 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
More 👏 female👏 ditch👏 diggers 👏.
There's plenty of women with short and medium length hair.
[–]SelkoBrother 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I am happy to be as I am.
[–]OctaviaPinfold 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with men's rights. In fact as a man who likes to paint his nails but can't most of the time, I know how frustrating it can get, especially when your parents tell you that it's not normal. It can only be worse with hair because it's apparent all the time.
[–]ZeldaVelveeta 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Hey, my guy dabbled in painting his nails; personally I didn't actually like how it looked (maybe too much of a reminder of my failed goth phase lol) but it was so cool to see him just do his thing regardless of any comments his friends gave him. The confidence was awesome. I'm sorry your parents would let a creative expression like that affect them in a negative way instead of just loving you as is.
[–]SchemaCzar 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Is this about hair or about dirty jobs?
This sub has been getting pretty useless unless you like whining.
[–]Critical-Coat-1593 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I wanted to comment on that girl’s post, but then I saw it was on r/twoxchromosones, which is the first subreddit I was ever banned on.
[–]kaijyuu2016 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Aye, I'll toast to that.
[–]coloradocaniac 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Let me know when expectations for women exist like signing up for selective service, not being able to defend yourself physically from the other gender when they attack you, and by and large being the gender who gets unquestionably arrested during domestic disputes regardless of the actual situation or facts.
[–]DerBrettboy 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Both concerns are right? This has nothing to do with each other. Can I have shoes? NO, we walked to school barefoot I'm winter!
[–]RandomEqualist 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
it isnt an oppression leg war here. and no one is telling men to go do dangerous work, no one likes it because its just bad work
[–]kaijyuu2016 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
All my waifus have short hair, wtf is she talking about?
[+]ACG_Wander0 points [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link
Just cut your hair then? Christ, how fragile are these people that others allegedly expecting you to have long hair somehow bothers you?
They should be thankful they arent men. If this is enough to bother them, they would just become another male suicide statistic.
[–]-Soggy-Potato- 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
This seems unnecessarily dismissive
It’s not a surprise that female beauty standards are toxic, a lot of identity revolves around beauty, something mainly encouraged by corporations to exploit a certain emphasised insecurity. There’s going to be more social / peer pressure surrounding it
Going against a social norm bothers lots of people, not everyone is as confident in themselves as you are expecting them to be, especially for women with the hyper focus on beauty that isn’t as common for men (still present, think of male body image / bigorexia*), specifically looking at hair side of things (haircuts, the sheer number of hair products / ways to change hair moreso available to women)
The issue here is an unhealthy social norm around women having long hair, there’s no need to criticise this or compare it to men. It’s a relatively unique issue women face (again, specific context and coat around for long hair), ridiculing or undermining the prevalence of social expectations and peer pressure doesn’t seem particularly reasonable given the diverse reality of self-esteem and general body image, and all the unique and separate issues men and women face as a result of toxic beauty standards
[+]ACG_Wander1 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
"unique issue women face" M8 you're speaking to a guy that had long hair for many years. But whatever hope she sees this bro.
[–]-Soggy-Potato- -3 points-2 points-1 points (3 children) | Copy Link
it’s a generalisation but there is a unique issue women face is the stigma against women having short hair
Sure theres also a stigma against men having long hair doesn’t actually change anything, I get you want to insert yourself into every issue and compete to feed the victim complex but ultimately that doesn’t change my original idea
Like, congrats, you still completely missed my point
[+]ACG_Wander1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Ah, jusy another double standard. Nothing to see here folks.
[–]-Soggy-Potato- -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
The stigma against women having short hair doesn’t apply to men
Men having a short hair isn’t an issue
Same with how men having long hair can have a stigma against it where having long hair as a woman doesn’t
Both ideas are probably based around ideas of traditionally masculine or feminine traits, but that’s as far as they go, the context and motivations are still different and deserve their unique discussions to address them
There exists different motivations and reasoning behind each separate stigma, making a direct comparison is unreasonable and unhelpful. In order to actually do something or address the issue they need to be looked at separately since the context isn’t identical
They are two separate things based on at best similar ideas, claiming a double standard is blatantly ignoring what I’m saying or just completely missing the point, why did you feel the need to do that or did you just not get what I said
[+]Ryodan_ -11 points-10 points-9 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Just get a different job then? Christ how fragile are these people that others allegedly expecting you to work hard jobs somehow bothers you?
They should be thankful they arent woman. If this is enough to bother them, they would just be another female sexual assault victim statistic.
[–]Agirlformensright 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Get off this subreddit. Men are expected to have short hair much more than women are expected to have long hair.
[–]BaconEater669 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Except people need jobs to live and quiting a job can have huge financial consequences while cutting your hair can be free to $20.
[–]TheJollyDabber 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
So who’s gonna do the tough labor intensive jobs?
[–]Ryodan_ 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
People who want the monetary compensation for doing them
[–]-_Plastic_- -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
And how fragile are you that a post about a woman not liking having long hair bothers you? Why does this even need to be a gender issue? It's literally just a woman talking about her opinion on hair expectations, and still the men here like you are getting offended and making it a gendered issue.
[+]ACG_Wander1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Hope she shes this bro.
[–]-_Plastic_- 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
?
[–]spierscreative 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I think the expectation of longhair, is one mostly imposed by other women. Women almost never dress for men, they do it to impress other women.
[–]alclarkey -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
So they say.
[–]classy-insanity -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
hi as an afab person i’d like to politely respond to this. so women dress for themselves mainly but when being catcalled on the street it feels more like men think we are dressed for them/ think we should be dressed for them. some catcalls are along the lines of “show more skin” which is actively telling women how they should dress. the expectation of long hair is just society in general and their view of gender. when i cut my hair i had comments from stuff like “so are you transgender?” to “but your hair was so pretty” all the way to “you look like a boy, i preferred it before”.
[–]bumbuff 9 points10 points11 points (15 children) | Copy Link
This was...whataboutism. At its finest. That's all.
"I hate that my mom and country expect me to have long hair"
"What about men taking dangerous jobs?"
That's it. That's what this sounds like.
The two issues have zero in common to discuss.
This subreddit is filled with women-hating incels. I expected some women-hating as most guys here have been burned, but do some critical thinking before you post garbage.
[–]Astephen542 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. "I hate having to face gender roles" "Ok but what about MY problem??". How are these posts related? It's not like the woman in the post is saying anything about men's rights, just venting about a problem she faces.
[–]Agirlformensright -1 points0 points1 point (10 children) | Copy Link
Why are you against equality.
[–]bumbuff 0 points1 point2 points (9 children) | Copy Link
I didn't realize hair and career expectations should be treated the same.
[–]Agirlformensright -1 points0 points1 point (8 children) | Copy Link
You're against mens rights? So youre against equality for men.
[–]bumbuff 1 point2 points3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
Where did I say that?
[–]Agirlformensright 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]bumbuff 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
What does that have to do with being for or against men's rights?
[–]Agirlformensright -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
You're hating on the people of the mens rights act.
[–]bumbuff 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Criticism isn't hate. My language was rude, but it's calling out the ever failing attitude in this sub. If you disagree with my assertion, that's fine. That doesn't mean we disagree on men's rights. My comment merely pointed out a weak connection with the copy-pasted ranting from someone in a woman's subreddit.
Criticism isn't always bad either. It helps us improve. But people hate being criticized. So they use defense mechanisms, like your extreme argument (fallacy) that I hate men's rights simply because I disagreed here.
No where did I mention I am against men's rights. Nor does my posting history suggest it. I would suggest you stop gaslighting people if you want to make a difference in the world.
[–]Agirlformensright -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
I gave evidence on exactly what you said. That's not gaslighting. You're just over exaggerating.
[–]bumbuff2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
You mean this?
Would you like to double down without reviewing the context of the comment it came from?
Simply because I said that doesn't reflect on my opinion of men's rights. My comment has to do with the quality of users here, not about the quality of the meta-issue that is men's rights.
[–]Agirlformensright1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
You called that gaslighting. Here is the definition of gaslight:
manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
"in the first episode, Karen Valentine is being gaslighted by her husband"
Does that make you question your sanity?
[–]Panderjit_SinghVV -5 points-4 points-3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Zero in common? One is a female complaint about gender roles and the other is a male complaint about gender roles.
Hmmm. I think I understand your response now.
You’re shocked that the female complaint that gets enormous social attention is so trivial next to the man’s complaint which is literally life and death but gets zero attention.
Yes it is shocking.
[–]bumbuff 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
If you've never been called out for it, this is called gaslighting. I didn't say anything regarding the social attention of the message, and frankly don't care. You're trying to make me think I do.
This is the same mental gymnastics that most women perform while trying to undermine men.
If everyone is performing mental gymnastics to 'one-up' the other side then there will be no betterment to society in any regard. (this can be applied to many on going issues right now)
[–]electricalnoise 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
But who cares if you die? My hair!
[–]Laprasnomore 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
This is a strange post. It feels very "My struggle is worse than yours so you shouldn't complain"-y.
[–]sendbobandvagenepic -2 points-1 points0 points (1 child) | Copy Link
No one is arguing who’s issue is more important kid
[–]Laprasnomore 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Then what was the point of posting this?
[–]The_Man_of_Fate 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I'm expected to go to the gym, be rich, good looking, tall, and the rest of the list for a woman who can provide nothing unique to me and will probably me a burden (not all women but lots of modern women are like this)
[–]yabboi_ 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Expected? Well, if you want to look good. Everything has a cost
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
If your biggest concern is expectations over cosmetic grooming, you probably have a pretty good life.
[–]CorneliousFuck 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Oh, you only ever vent about your biggest concerns in life? There's never just something small bugging you that you want to complain about?
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
Of course not.
I just don't pretend that minor inconveniences to me are a damning indictment on society as a whole.
[–]CorneliousFuck 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Did you read it? Because she doesn't do that. She clearly says it's her friends and family shaming her and quotes things they have said to her.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
Did you read it?
>> My home country is very conservative and obviously my parents grew up in that. People literally stare at you on the street if you have "weird" hair and you can be fired if people suspect you might be gay or "unnatural." (Not my words)
[–]CorneliousFuck 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Ah, I didn't read it after she edited it
[–]GivePuppiesBazookas 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
The only people who expect women to have long hair, is women. I will never get this kind of shit. I swear too many women just completely make shit up in their head and just run with it as real for sympathy points. I am 39 years old, have hundreds of male friends, I can't recall a single time any man saying anything related to short hair not being feminine and demanding long hair.
This is like women with the "I don't owe him _____", it's completely made up off the assumption said man feels entitled to something. I had a friend just last night say a guy said hello to her and she wasn't saying hi back because she doesn't "owe him anything". Like people walk around demanding a return hello or something is a regular occurrence.
Like this girl is acting liek it's JUST women who get compliments for a change or something. I am sure most of us here have shaved and been told we look better. Or Jesus, how many us us have bene told by a woman "you would be cuter if you _____"
[–]JaeNova 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Not true. Women, especially in the black community have been shamed for having short hair especially because there’s this stereotype as if we can’t have long hair. Different lives call for different perspectives. Her comment didn’t imply anything gender specific. Her comment is actually about things she’s going through with her family. Some people in this sub Reddit just wanna make things into a gender war.
[+]DanteLivra1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
She's literally so stupid, there's no one except old people who are gonna judge someone for their hairs in 2021.
[–]BananaBomber456 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean she literally describes in the post that her family judges it
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (4 children) | Copy Link
For Christ's Sake, it's not like they forced her to keep it long or bullied her for shaving, they just suggested that long hair looks better.
[–]kaaari 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
She describes receiving constant degrading comments about her preferences. That is what bullying is. I agree that she should just cut it and ignore these people but your comment is just wrong.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
"but your hair is so pretty"
"Your hair looks sooooooooooo pretty now"
Truly, more cruel words have never been spoken
[–]kaaari 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Uhm, I can't tell if you are being earnest or are being deliberately obtuse? These are phrases based on pining for an idea of a person's look, not they're actual preferred look. It's manipulative and bullying, especially when coming from close family who know what kind of look you are actually comfortable with. If you got with some woman who said to you "it's soooooooo hot when you pay for dinner" or "your big wallet is really attractive" would you consider those to be compliments?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Come on, your family isn't there to just nod and approve of everything you do. They have a right to voice their own opinion and criticise you if needed, especially the parents. And i actually would take those things as a compliment. It's not like they are backhanded, people tend to find big wallets attractive
[–]NordicHorde -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
What whiny bitches. At school all the boys had to have short hair, but girls could have short or long hair.
[–]brcn3 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh no, she’s expected to be hot!
[–]hdyeuwjqnqn 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
How do I block that fucking sub? I don’t need to see their toxic shit on my popular feed.
[–]CorneliousFuck 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
how do I block a subreddit
[–]hdyeuwjqnqn 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks!
[–]braindeadhead 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Jordan Peterson brings up a good point about this
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Cut it if you want, if other people don't like it so what. But it an issue arises when for example somebody doesn't want to date you for it, don't try and call it opression, because guess what, it's called a preference.
[–]Inchan255 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I am supposed to have air to look good and youthful when biology is against me.
[–]UppedSolution77 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I just saw this post on popular and just rolled my fucking eyes. I WISH I didn't have to be SUBJECTED to 2x every goddamn time I swipe to popular.
[–]vwatchrepair 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I was in the Navy in the early 2000's. Men and women had two different hair regulations. Is that still the same now?? What is this "expected to", crap? They can have pretty much any length hair they want even in one of the strictest places in society. Wow.
[–]Geeekus 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I’m forced to enroll in my countries draft.
[–]EyeLeft3804 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Nice post op but let's not conflate two seperate issues?
[–]DadWorksAtSega 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate traditional gender roles in general
[–]bigbrainchurro07 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that we are forced to sign ourselves to the draft in order to vote
[–]realmtraveller 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
Because women don't tend to want to do them, but want equality.
[–]mchugh-02 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
No one is expected to work these jobs, they just choose to? I don’t think this has anything to do with equality it just seems like a petty post to diminish another persons struggles.
[–]realmtraveller 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Men are expected to do these jobs more than women as they are tough jobs. Yes they choose to for pay and they can pay well.
[–]realmtraveller 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Someone can hate it but the reality is that mostly men do these jobs.
[+]mchugh-021 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
In a under developed country I can agree that men can be forced into a job like this because they are physically dominant but in a developed country more men do these jobs but only because they prefer to and will also perform better. I don’t think it’s a debate about equality because if the same amount of women were to do these jobs they would be far more unhappy as they would struggle and perform worse
[–]realmtraveller 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
The equality thing is because women want equality but only in certain things, not unpleasant things.
[+]mchugh-021 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Equality isn’t 50/50 in every job, there’s no denying that men are better at some jobs and women are better at others so there will always be an imbalance there. When u say “women want” it seems like ur just generalising every woman, I understand where ur coming from some toxic people do exactly what you just said and just bitch about men and oppression all the time but only a small amount compared to the true feminists who aren’t toxic sjw’s and want there to be true equality for men and women
[–]realmtraveller 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
No I said most women don't want those jobs which is true. I'm not toxic for talking about truth and evidence. Most men are doing those jobs because they are more suited to them and most women are not suited to them and don't want to do them. I doubt there's any true feminists. Ok, so true feminists would want equality in violence against some equal to men in films. They sound want equal numbers of women to fight on the front line as men. Equal number of male domestic violence centres. Can you name any true feminists?
[–]TC18271851 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
I hated expecting to be a provider, to marry down, and to make the first move
[–]seamusdoherty -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
They expect us to work dirty dangerous jobs and then get mad when we say we are biologically stronger
[–]Silencio00 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
First world females problems.
[–]Agirlformensright -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
Men are expected to have short hair much more than women are expected to have long hair.
[–]michaelscott1776 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that we're expected to have short hair
I hate that we're expected to be strong all the time
I hate that we're expected to pay child support but never see our child
I hate that we're 79% of all suicides
I hate that our life expectancy is about 10-20 years less than a woman's
I hate that we're put in a corner and expected to be silent about everything that happens to us and just "man up and move on"
[–]ShelterBeautiful -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I am expected to pay for your food.
[–]thiper01 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I love how comments on that post talk about "meat-prison" like okay, transcend into a force of nature or something already
[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't know if it's so much a case of "expected" versus Women don't want to do the job, so it is left to be filled by Men. The majority of those jobs are rough, dirty and dangerous.
I have met, known and worked with Women in trades. The majority of them wanted to be there, and stood shoulder-to-shoulder with you in the field.
There were a few that entered because of incentives, and left when they realized it was more demanding of time and effort than they wanted.
[–]AudioMan15 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Hair I am long expected to hate, I have that?
[–]kaaari 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
This sounds like a really interesting conversation to have, but I don't understand why it has be shitting on the exact same conversation on this other subreddit?
Let's talk about men's expectations and share the bad experiences we may have had with taking a less "manly" jobs. Why should that involve dragging TwoX? I really don't understand the technique here.. are you trying to invalidate this other post? Isn't the point you are making in the title the exact same point made in this other post?
[–]thwip62 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It's true. Even in the same jobs, sometimes women are exempt from certain tasks. I used to work in a place that did live music, as well as club nights. Women were hired as bartenders straight off the street, regardless of whether or not they had experience, whereas men were only hired as gophers, and had to "work their way up" to bartender, which was ridiculous in my opinion since a couple of the girls were straight out of high school. I think that only about two guys got to work as bartenders. The rest of us were fetching boxes of booze, lugging huge plastic bags full of ice around the building cleaning the floor whenever anyone spilt drinks, getting sprayed with garbage juice when we were taking the garbage out. It was before smoking in bars was banned, too, so getting burned by morons dancing with their smokes at arms' length was a common occurrence, too. Oh, and the guys had to climb a big-ass ladder to change the sign that displayed the names of the acts. Potentially risking their safety, for minimum wage.
At the end of each night, when the customers had left, the girls were free to hang about, while the guys had to restock all the fridges for the following day. This building was huge, by the way, about 8 floors, so all of this was a pain in the ass. I'd leave work at 4am stinking of garbage every night.
A bit of a rant, I know, but this is why I laugh whenever I hear about the "gender pay-gap". Here, and other jobs I've worked in had men working harder than the women for the same pay
[–]quorn_king 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I've got a lot of sympathy for people in difficult situations, but they don't half talk some nonsense on that sub. I mean maybe people talk shit on this sub too! Lol
[–]ImTheTrueFireStarter 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I am expected to be careful around women so I don’t get falsely accused of rape
[–]realvmouse 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Also OP: 'what do you mean men's rights is really a reaction to women demanding equality and was never about the rights of men?'
[–]maxyamongus 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
We all do!
[–]viper12a1a 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
We should be thanking women who get buzz cuts though. Makes it easy to know who to avoid
[–]TheOneTrueChickenBoy -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
I doubt you need to avoid women homie they're probably already avoiding you
[–]viper12a1a 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol ok bud
[–]Lauracurieuse 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that men think they’re expected to do other things than what they are.
If you’re not comfortable with a job, don’t do it. We women will love you for being true to yourself... except if you got us pregnant!
[–]gamerush177 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that I am expected to have short hair. As a male with long hair who is often ridiculed by my parents, yeah it kinda sucks. But do you see me throwing a temper tantrum about it? No, because what they say to me doesn’t matter. Either stop bitching about it and do exactly what they say, or stop listening to what they say and live your life how you want. Simple.
[–]Taiza67 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
For real. I hate when people just assume that because I’m big and tall I should be doing the back breaking labor. Never mind my fucking master’s degree, and obviously much better grasp of all of the technology at work. Fuck outta here.
[–]Rockbottom503 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I've worked jobs where you have to keep clean shaven, Short hair and suited and booted at all times. The girls in these roles almost always had much more leeway on what they wore and how they looked but still seemed to bitch endlessly about having to have hair tied back.
[–]CorneliousFuck 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
How is the title related to the post?
[–]Informal_Intern 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
if you drive around new York or any other major beautiful city you are looking at the work of 99.99% men
[–]triesleast 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
What the heck is she on about? Short hair for women has been a thing since the 20’s with bob cuts and from the 50’s forward with pixie cuts. Unless she considers anything longer than shaved as “long hair”
[–]realmtraveller 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok thanks. I heard that there's a lot more violence on men than women in movies.
[–]OldRedditor1234 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
According to hard core feminism women and man should have equal participation. We really should go on the streets to push for more women on the bricklayer and underwater welding industries. Seriously we should. That would send a message.
[–]MuntedMunyak 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I’ve got long hair and get the same unfair treatment just in reverse.
[–]MAMBAMENTALITY8-24 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I hate that i have gone for mandatory conscription
[–]MBV-09-C 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm not sure where the stereotype that men hate short hair on women came from, I know there's plenty of guys like me that prefer it over long hair. I can say with all certainty I believe the partial and full shaved looks are well beyond that line however, if I see that on someone that doesn't have balding problems or cancer, it just puts me off from them as a whole, not just from attraction standards.
[–]-_Plastic_- 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
So at this point we're trying to make literally every single thing that a woman says into a gender issue. All this woman did was say she doesn't like being expected to have long hair, and you somehow take offense to that. This isn't a sub for men's rights anymore, this is becoming a women hating sub.
[–]LambdaLikeAnyone 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Looks like this girl has unsupportive friends and family, she should tell them that she doesn't like long hair and that they should stop complaining about such a silly thing. Even though, she already said that to all of them...
[–]PrimoXiAlpha 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean honestly i think it's an understandable thing. I hated needing to have my hair cut. But guess what? I am an adult now I'm gowing my god damn hair. Lol
[+]j3nniif3r1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I thought prostitution at the street level was the dirtiest most dangerous and most lethal job?? I though teenage and young women did most of that work? life expectancy about 32 or something for whores, right?
[–]electricalnoise 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
That would make sense. Is that a gender issue or a class issue? Is it interesting to anyone at all that ever since The occupy movement cooled down, the big cultural dividers are along racial or gender lines? It's almost like we're being used as scapegoats against each other and the extremely wealthy and the media can't help but stoke the fire. Everyone's a victim, and everyone else is the problem. And nobody is talking about it. I think we're all fucked.
[+][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]sendbobandvagenepic 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
No he is making a point of the equality of these sexist situations
[–]roxev -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
But they pay so well. I joined the Army as a 19 year old and was deployed twice to Afghanistan. Once as a private, and then a corporal. I brought back 90k that sat in my account till I bought a house at 22. I’ve had my own home snd car for fifteen years, unfortunately I hurt people. Our convoy got bombed once. Not bad consider the hundreds of times we went out. But it left an impression.
[–]FlenZepla -1 points0 points1 point (7 children) | Copy Link
He grateful you have the option. Most women wouldn’t make the best laborers for a masonry company or be able to pull heavy boxes off warehouse shelves all day. There’s no shame in those jobs, not top tier shit but at least you got something you could fall back on if you needed a job in a hurry.
[–]electricalnoise -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
Sure if you don't mind working your fingers to the bone for the least they can legally pay you. And if you're not a lazy piece of shit you're "too valuable" for any kind of upward mobility. Should women be grateful they have the option to go into prostitution? Neither is a good back up plan.
[–]FlenZepla 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
They should be grateful for having value just for being born a woman too. Men don’t have pussies and they can’t bear children, boom - value! I don’t work manual labor and I don’t have to, good for me, not everyone’s so fortunate. It’s good to know that if everything else falls to shit, like I got some head injury and I end up too stupid to perform my current job, I’m strong enough to lift a bucket of mortar up over my head to the next level of scaffolding, there’s no reason I should have to starve.
Low wages for low skilled jobs is an entirely separate from gender issues. You got a job just about anyone can do? I wouldn’t expect to get paid much but it’s better than being homeless and starving.
And if you’re not a lazy, stupid piece of shit they just might show you how to lay brick instead of just moving bricks. That’s upward mobility, continuing to use masonry as an example because that’s a fairly brutal job and I worked as a laborer for about a year when I was younger. It’s tough on the body, but the body gets stronger and I got to eat as much as I wanted :). Always felt great after a long day of physical labor and I got strong as hell.
Neither’s a great lifestyle but I’ve already met enough women who seemingly have little to offer the world other than their pussy. I’ve met a lot of men who are too stupid to perform at any job other than manual labor too. So what’s your fucking point? A bricklayer’s not gonna wanna wait for a woman who struggles to lift one cinderblock up into a wheelbarrow and take all day to push that fucker up a plank ramp... there’s no way to make a profit when things move that slow. It’s a job best suited for men and maybe some exceptionally strong women. So really WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD? Just so the OP can cry like a woman about things that neither men or woman can affect? Human biology is the problem for him? I’ll take being physically stronger and not bleeding out my ass every month all day long. There are a lot of issues men face but this isn’t some systemic shit, it’s nature he’s crying about.
[–]ZeldaVelveeta -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
The three, tiny, badass women I work with in positions senior to my own, operating huge machines and driving multiple forklifts would disagree with you.
[–]FlenZepla -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
Cool, an anecdote about three women who know how to operate some machinery. The most impressive part is where they simultaneously operate multiple forklifts at once. Does it take much strength to operate this machinery? Are the levers and steering wheel very difficult to operate? Is it a job almost anyone could do? What’s holding you back from being their equals at your company?
[–]ZeldaVelveeta -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
Yikes, bud.
[–]FlenZepla -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
Just not seeing the point of this thread or the point of your reply. Should we start congratulating mentally ill men for breaking the womens’ deadlift record now?
[–]ZeldaVelveeta 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Nah, you're right, we four are anecdotal. And you shit all over it so. A win for ya! :) And yeah congratulate whoever you want... And yes very dumb whataboutism post. A big reach.
[–]redpills1 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
Men should realize that the traditional gender role of the man only makes them into nothing but tools for women and stop trying being the providers and protectors of women. Many men doesn't realize it and insist on being providers and protectors of independent women. That why people still expect men to do all the hard and dirty jobs while women get the comfortable jobs.
[–]Ethanol_Based_Life -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
I actually really like that women tend not to work them. I know that I will always have available to me a large pool of fulfilling jobs with good hours and good pay.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
Top comment
Unless you're an infant boy, or your wife wants you to get a vasectomy, or you're forced to work for 18 years to support a child you didn't want.
[–]HiBiGuyYYC -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
I have to admit that while growing up it did get old always having to be the one to mow the lawn, take out the trash, help move, etc. while my sister had to do sweet fuck all. Certain things that required more muscle were understandable but when it came to things like moving from one house to another, she was exempt from helping with even light items. That did not go both ways though.. when my very traditional grandmother visited from Croatia she expected only my sister to help set the dinner table but my mom assured her that “oh no, the boys can help set the table as well”... so many double standards
[–]OtherwiseTomato6863 -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
Are women even expected to have long hair anymore? Like short hair is trending every few months and no one is fucking discriminating against it.
Also long hair for men is fine too. Man buns a few years back, long wavy bee gees hair in the 70s, 90s mid length, these are all celebrated styles. My god you cant be free of any expectations in life and society is extremely tolerant of deviance this is peak first world over sensitivity
[–]mchugh-02 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s pretty normal in most places to have short hair as a girl but I’d imagine but in this girls town its not, she seems to be judged heavily and belittled by her family and friends. Its kinda sad