Teaching Boys Consent Is Hypocritical Until We End Infant Circumcision

Greg_W_Allan · 2021-04-19T12:24:54+00:00

My concern is consent not being presented to boys as a right but, rather, an obligation.

Over-Painter · 2021-04-19T16:50:02+00:00

Look, I’m a woman and I know circumcision doesn’t have a direct impact on my life but this is something that enrages me.

Circumcision without consent is genital mutilation and is incredibly fucked up. For all you men out there that weren’t given a choice, I’m sorry. My heart aches for you because what was done to you was not fair or right.

Even if you’re a circumcised man who doesn’t care that you were circumcised, my heart still aches for you all the same. You were never given a chance to feel what it would have been like to have your foreskin, so it’s hard to miss it. But the choice was taken from you when it undoubtedly should have been your decision alone. You’ve also probably been led to believe that it’s nothing to be upset over, but it’s okay if you are. Something was taken from you.

In the US, we must stop assuming that circumcision is the default choice. Foreskins are not inherently gross, dirty, or ugly! They have a function and provide pleasure.

It is your body. It should be your choice.

Edit: For those who opt for circumcision because you don’t want your son to look “abnormal,” all it takes to change this perception IS TO STOP CUTTING.

Vista_Seagrape · 2021-04-19T13:41:47+00:00

This is a great hypocrisy among many who talk about body autonomy and say "my body my choice." As soon as it's about baby boys having their reproductive organs permanently damaged, suddenly "my body my choice" no longer matters.

UnconventionalXY · 2021-04-19T13:34:06+00:00

I think we have got it arse about: bodily sovereignty rights ensure that consent is only required to waive those rights, the default is protection. We need to teach people about the universal rights that are in place and how only consent can be used to vary them. It's an implicit No unless consent is negotiated. Consent implicitly can not be negotiated with minors or incapacitated persons.

southerncraftgurl · 2021-04-19T17:24:24+00:00

When I was in nursing school i was doing my pediatric rotation. The doc on duty that day was also my own gynocologist so I knew him well. He grabbed me that day and said "come on and help me do this procedure".

Being the good little nursing student I was, of course I wanted to help the doctor.

But he didn't say what we were going to do...just said come help me do a procedure.

So here I am all exited. and then he takes that little newborn boy, straps him down on this body board for little babies, and without warning, he used that thing and whacked off his foreskin!

omg!

That baby screamed and cried. It was awful. I was incredulous and couldn't believe he did it without at least numbing the area. his respone? babies won't remember the pain!

Well he sure knew he was in pain at that moment.

It really messed with my head. After that I decided if I ever had a boy child I would NOT get him circumsized because it is barbaric.

Wasted_Kitchen · 2021-04-19T19:05:45+00:00

I feel very strongly about this issue.

When my son was born, I opposed this barbaric practice. I was up against a mother and controlling in-laws who opposed and argued my stance for weeks.

The mother in law said, “if it is the money I will pay”

The sister in law, who didn’t get her way in the end said in an angry tone, “well fine, he will just have an ugly looking penis then!”

His mother was open to a circumsicion being performed.

I stood my ground on the issue for my sons well being and sadly, not to diminish the victory but it is practically one of the only issues where I was successful in this dysfunctional “family dynamic”.

AmazingAdminAnus · 2021-04-19T22:09:54+00:00

Last time I heard of a female circumcision it was performed by a muslim doctor who nearly went to prison for LIFE. This is what her defense stated:

Asked to compare the procedure done by Dr. Nagarwala to male circumcision that is common and accepted in the United States, Smith answered,

“I think it’s far less invasive or extreme [than male circumcision], considering the amount that is removed. Male circumcision removes about 100 times more which is why I can respect people who are against all genital cutting but not people who have their sons circumcised and then say what my client did is wrong.”

This sub is one of the only places on the internet where I've seen morally correct views on male circumcision. Ya'll should be proud.

SwiftKick85 · 2021-04-19T19:04:17+00:00

I know this is going to seem off-topic (It's not about circumcision) but I ask that you hear me out first.

I always get into arguments regarding boys not being taught consent when they're kids (which, according to them, is the cause of all the raping). I always thought this argument was weird because a child (not just a boy but a child) wouldn't have the brain capacity to understand rape or "my body, my choice". So, in this regard, (according to them), they were NEVER taught consent.

But think about what they're saying in regard to a child's development.

Kids are taught to share toys, snacks... etc. A kid cannot simply take something from another kid unless they ask to share. In other words, unless they get consent. As they get older, the concept of consent becomes more serious (stealing or shoplifting for example). And then, "my body, my choice". The concept never goes away.

So can you seriously tell me that children have NEVER been taught consent? Sure, they haven't learned the word, "Consent" but the concept of permission is ingrained in their development. Any parent or teacher has to teach that otherwise, how do they participate in their development?

And then I get called a sexist.

lalala477 · 2021-04-19T10:17:05+00:00

Teaching boys consent is a form of gaslighting as it hides the truth about DV and rape that feminists have tried to hide for so long

Mandalorian2037 · 2021-04-19T14:57:06+00:00

I wish mine was never cut off.

Agirlformensright · 2021-04-19T20:56:04+00:00

Why only boys? They don't think we should teach girls consent?

Leagueofbabies · 2021-04-21T00:11:41+00:00

That's a damn good point.

blueXcat · 2021-04-19T13:28:46+00:00

I litterally used the circumcision issue yesterday to teach him about consent

YhonathonPlayzz · 2021-04-19T20:36:20+00:00

It's so sad that parents do it for non medical and non religious reasons. Even if circumcision was done for religious reasons it was done different compared to modern day Circumcision which is Pharisaic Circumcision (Brit Per'iah). Biblical Circumcision (Brit Milah) which means A covenant in Hebrew called (brit, also pronounced bris), and circumcision is (milah) – hence the ceremony is called (brit milah). It only involves cutting a very small portion of the foreskin so the foreskin will still be able to protect the glans compared to modern day circumcision or Pharisaic Circumcision (Brit Per'iah) which removes the entire foreskin and the glans of the penis is damaged so it loses sensitivity and "When the mucosa of the glans are exposed to chafing, the glans protects itself by keratinizing[3] (similar to a callous). Foreskin keeps the glans internal, as it is supposed to be. The more the glans keratinizes, the less it can feel" . The reason Biblical circumcision was changed was because people back then who were circumcised was extending their foreskin using a foreskin restoration device so that they will appear uncircumcised so because of this the rabbinate made a new type of circumcision which is modern day Circumcision. This type of circumcision was not part of the covenant with God instead it was a man made circumcision that involves removing the entire foreskin along with the frenulum.Periah consists of tearing and stripping back the remaining inner mucosal lining of the foreskin from the glans and then, by use of a sharp finger nail or implement, removing all of the inner mucosal tissue, including the excising and removal of the frenulum from the underside of the glans. The objective was to insure that no part of the remaining penile skin would rest against the glans corona. If any shreds of the mucosal foreskin tissue remained, or rejoined to the underside of the glans, the child was to be re-circumcised.

This is a much more radical form of circumcision. It was dictated by man, and is not the biblical commanded circumcision rite. Its introduction has a bizarre history. The rabbinate sought to put an end to the practice of youths desiring to appear uncircumcised by stretching the remainding foreskin for social economic benefits and for sports competitions. By introducing the painful and debilitating "Periah" they would obliterate the foreskin completely such that proper circumcised Jew could not disguise "the seal of the covenant". From this point in Jewish history, the male's glans is directly affected by the circumcision procedure, and the denuded glans and traumatized infant will heal with considerable nerve damage and loss of sensitivity. Again, it is important to note that this is not the Covenant circumcision of Abraham defined in the Bible. Jesus was circumcised the Biblical way which is Brit Milah and he was not circumcised the modern way or Pharisaic Circumcision (Brit Per'iah). All of this information was found on websites that I got using the Google Search Engine. Please spread the word on this type of unnecessary modern day Circumcision unless required medically. Also Modern Day Circumcision was an attempt to get males to stop masturbating. God made every single male on this Earth with a foreskin so it's natural, It protects the penis so absolutely no one should remove a person's foreskin unless REQUIRED MEDICALLY. You can see how Biblical Circumcision looks by using Google and you may see a statue of Michelangelo David which appears uncircumcised but he is actually circumcised so that goes to show that the glans of the penis is still protected.

antifeminist3 · 2021-04-19T21:48:59+00:00

Teaching boys consent without teaching girls consent gives the type of girls who feel entitled to boys the idea that they do not need to ask for consent

A new study reveals that men are often the victims of sexual assault, and women are often the perpetrators.

equalityworldwide · 2021-04-19T17:23:03+00:00

It's not hypocritical. We should teach boys to ask for consent with sex and that they are entitled to consent over their own bodies as well.

hdyeuwjqnqn · 2021-04-19T23:16:06+00:00

I disagree. Consent is important. What I don’t like is how most people exclusively target boys for educating consent. Even if more men rape than women (which I’m not sure of), we shouldn’t blame everything on men because I don’t see the reverse happening to women. When it’s the reverse and women does something bad more than men it’s never the same.

Inchan255 · 2021-04-19T16:13:29+00:00

The generations of future will find it absurd that we wasted so much time "debating" against obvious mutilation of an infant.

thatspositive · 2021-04-19T10:07:05+00:00

We should end infant circumcision

And we should teach boys consent

Ashlir · 2021-04-19T16:06:02+00:00

Until we end statism we are all hypocrites when talking about forcing our opinions onto others.

mattimus_maximus · 2021-04-19T15:01:53+00:00

I think it's worth making sure this is communicated correctly to be heard. Talking about it in terms of the hypocrisy sounds like a deflection. It could easily be taken as meaning you will take their stance seriously once they drop the hypocrisy and care about little boys too. It can cause people to not listen.
I think a more productive approach is to say "You're absolutely right, this is a subject that needs to be talked about and we need to make sure we teach about consent as part of preparing our children to be adults. While we're talking about consent, here's an aspect which is often neglected in the conversation, bodily autonomy of children", and then start talking about stopping circumcision.
Instead of saying "Yes, but...", say "Yes, and..." so we're joining with them rather than appearing to be opposed.

venom9110 · 2021-04-19T22:23:09+00:00

2 wrongs don't make a right.

3qui1i6riM · 2021-04-19T15:33:18+00:00

New to this sub, what’s the argument around circumcision?

Cuber69420lol · 2021-04-19T19:46:44+00:00

Ok guys i feel left out in all this i dont understand why this whole circumcision stuff i asked my mom about it when i was younger and she told me it was a health thing pls elsplain guys

Stormpooperz · 2021-04-19T16:23:52+00:00

What about India where only a certain percentage of population is circumcised, and yet Boys are not taught concent

samandruk · 2021-04-19T18:12:31+00:00

Alright. Yes, of course circumcision is a horrible practice that needs to end, but comparing it to sexual assault is beyond morbid. Calling it hypocrisy is dangerously irresponsible. Everyone needs to be taught consent.

TheMouseRan · 2021-04-19T17:26:45+00:00

No it isn't, fuck off

Oblivity0 · 2021-04-19T17:40:04+00:00

I was circumcised as an infant and maaaaan am I glad I was. Too much upkeep for just some extra foreskin

pletteezy · 2021-04-20T00:54:09+00:00

Circumcision is not even close to as bad as pumping kids with hormones and forcing them to be transgender.

NoUsername189 · 2021-04-19T16:24:34+00:00

Being hypocritical is okay so long as it means you are in the midst of change for something better.

RunChariotRun · 2021-04-20T00:59:43+00:00

... it kind of sounds like this title should be “Teach more people the value of consent so they can understand how nonconsensual infant circumcision is and stop it”?

Shouldn’t boys have opportunities to learn and understand how to consent (or not) to what is happening to them or what they want to do with their bodies just as much as anyone else? I don’t think anyone should be deprived of the ability to learn about consent just because others are having things inflicted on them :(

intactisnormal · 2021-04-22T21:54:30+00:00

Good reading and good comments in here for everyone.

Thedirtyanonacct · 2021-04-19T16:04:46+00:00

I'm glad I'm cut. I think it should be a choice of the parents.

BlueDoes2 · 2021-04-19T14:19:34+00:00

as an avid male rights support.... I don't get why men hate circumcision so freaking much. I am, and I don't think it's that big of a deal, maybe using some sort of numbing substance would be good, but other then that it's more helpful then not...?

Title	Teaching Boys Consent Is Hypocritical Until We End Infant Circumcision
Author	whatafoolishsquid
Upvotes	1018
Comments	222
Date	April 19, 2021 9:54 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mtx7zq/teaching_boys_consent_is_hypocritical_until_we/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/teaching-boys-consent-is-hypocritical-until-we-end.830499 https://theredarchive.com/post/830499

Comments