Why can't the patriarchy be discussed?

WiiWynn · 2023-01-24T00:34:47+00:00

Because the prevailing thought is that it’s no longer up for debate. It’s up there with racism now to be a MRA, in spite of any facts or personal experience.

I just roll with it in everyday life. Don’t engage in debate. It’s not worth the social damage. Just make sure you don’t drink the kool-aid where it results in ACTUAL damage to your net worth.

People who actually have to manage things and show results all know what’s up. The WNBA is a charity for women. Companies balance their female to male workforce by ironically assigning ‘gender roles’ so macro metrics show its close to 50/50 but 90% of HR and accountants are women in air conditioned offices, 99.9% of field workers in the sun are male. They make up inconsequential executive titles (e.g. VP of strategic growth initiatives) that don’t have real deliverables and assign women.

It’s a game. Just play along with the farce so you don’t get made an example. Now the feminists are trying to take away rights of men to have sexual preferences so the spinsters can get married.

BrainsBeforeBrawns · 2023-01-23T22:25:30+00:00

You won the argument the moment he resorted to name calling and insults. Even if not, the fact that he wouldn’t see the proof shows his arrogance.

When it comes to situations like that, it’s usually the result of bias, something even the most intelligent people have.

Just because your IQ is high doesn’t make you incapable of being an idiot. Look at Ben Shapiro when he lost his cool live on BBC. Take comfort in knowing that you’re not a crybaby like your “friend”.

Rassy2 · 2023-01-24T01:47:57+00:00

I think your friend will come round to your point of view soon enough, but don't expect any thanks.

My feeling is that men like this are taking out their years of pent-up anger with feminism, which they can't question without their identity collapsing, on anyone who attacks it. Particularly other men, It really sucks, but it makes sense.

I mean, it's an enormous thing when you really reflect on it. All us men grew up absorbing the instruction that we were never to question women on gender issues, and always concede to them in disagreements. (Though, really, disagreeing at all was a sign we were doing something wrong).

And at first we didn't think about it, because it didn't seem to effect much. We had all these privileges, and they got to walk all over us at any time they wanted in return. Uhh, I guess? I mean, makes sense to an eight year old.

And if we did question it we had this natural blind faith that there was some kind of fairness at the end of it all that would all become clear later. While we were alredy prejudiced against, and it was just ramping up all the time.

All of us just sent blindly walking into this pitfall where, one way or another, the reality of the gender situation against your expectations was going to ambush you at some point and take its price from you. Whether the disilluionment of red or the denial of blue. All of us damaged to various degrees, some for much longer than others.

And I think a lot of it is just luck. Unless your intelligence is so exceptional it has the rigour to overturn the faith of youth in its society, it's not going to save you.

Take me: I have 5 older sisters. All lovely people, but all my reading material as a kid was aimed at young girls. So I was extremely sensitive to tghe depictions of males in media from the age of ten. So I was positioned to redpill quickly once this shit really got going, because suddenly watching TV was absolutely unbearable. Byt that was just luck.

Intelligence can even make things worse. Because it doesn't take a lot of smarts at all to see through feminism, it just takes the willingness to question it. If you're an intelligent person who hasn't been doing that for years and is beginning to wake up only now, how furious at yourself are you going to be when you're finally forced to? And how furious at the guy who brings you one step closer by bringing it up with all these terribly convincing arguments?

scotchbuddhaluv · 2023-01-24T04:34:16+00:00

First, this guy is a piece of garbage and I sincerely think you are the one who should stay away from him.

Secondly, I think your post holds a part of the answer: it's a brainwash effect, because it's everywhere, cultural effect to conform combined with moral shame if you don't, which has also been very common in cultures everywhere.

Thirdly, I would add something you already know: Patriarchy is pure bs, it comes from a place totally ignorant of history and full of hateful assumptions. I'll try to succinctly tell you why, even if you do know:

The right to physical integrity is safegarded by the State, today. The State (government, authorities, the entire social and political system, which penetrates every aspects of our lives) only recently appeared. Real democracy, with universal vote and social rights, work laws, etc, only appeared in the XXth century! More or less between the two WW! There was no such thing before.

In Ancient times, there was no law outside cities. Anyone could attack anyone else physically. It was outside any law. You would see a woman, you could just take her! And from ancient texts, it did happened often. It was the same for villages and cities: any group of armed men, any other city, could come and destroy it, kill all the males, take all the females and children in slavery. This was very frequent in ancient times. Not rare at all. So the people who could defend the city were the citizens. It's normal, you defend it with your life! And moreover, you defend all other inhabitants of the city. Of course, women were not strong enough to keep ranks in close battles and were not admitted as warrior/citizens. And they didn't want to be either!

There wasn't real policing inside cities until very late, depending on places, not before the 1700s. Sometimes there were some type of peace keeping, but it was far from being like today: you just couldn't call the police, in the past. So even inside cities, you had to be organized and careful, and put yourself under the protection of a citizen.

Later on, the Dark ages and the Middle ages are even worse for people in general. Essentially, a class of all mighty warriors (combined with religious officials) ruled over close to 90% of people, themselves living off the land (it's only in the XXth century that the urban population surpassed the rural population almost everywhere). There were no rights to really talk about. In fact, what little laws there were changed from one noble's land to another. They started to try to unify laws only in the XVIth century, a process that lasted, once again depending on places, all the way to the XVIIIth, XIXth centuries. Notice that back then, any noble woman was more powerful than 90% of men. It was not a matter of gender, it was a matter of class. Yes, their male counterparts had the upper hand on them, but only through brute force, like they did for anyone else. And even then, some women better married were more powerful than many other noblemen. It was NOT a matter of gender.

In the following centuries, we all fought to have more rights, to have better lives. Countless men died in these battles. Some women too, but of course, men fight wars. And we finally did manage to obtain real democracies in the XXth century. Men fought the system to obtain rights for everyone. You cannot say that the system was patriarchal on a gender basis, because 90% of people, men and women, lived in shite! Possible rights were obtain through civil unrest and war!

Now, were women, during these centuries, either in nobility or peasantry, claiming more rights? Did they revolted against an hypothetical male rule over them? Of course not! They lived with their time, had kids, didn't want to take arms and die! They raised children for the entire history: if women had disagreed with the system and thought of something better, we would know! You can't raise all the generations of children to grow up, yourself in a state of pain, misery, subservience and anger against it without having these kids expressing that, or revolting against that, or without expressing it. No: women fully collaborated to the practices of their time. And they socialized their kids, boys AND girls, to do the same.

Oh! damn it! I realize I'm writing too much here again. I'm sorry guys. I hope you get my gist: "Patriarchy" is a contemporary concept. It has nothing to do with history. There are complex explanations for every type of social organizations in history; patriarchy is so simplistic it's not even funny.

TL;DR Patriarchy never existed because history was never about gender issues. Moreover, women participated to it. For almost the entire history, there were no rights. We had to fight to obtain democracy, which is really as recent as the XXth century. So, forget historic patriarchy. But the notion is so omnipresent that people are brainwashed.

sorebum405 · 2023-01-23T23:21:14+00:00

Even highly intelligent people can be biased when it comes to certain topics.These people are usually perfectly capable of being logical and discussing other topics in an unbiased way,but if they are emotionally invested in a certain ideology, or have something to gain by adopting that ideology, they are unable to be unbiased when discussing anything regarding their ideology.

There are three reasons I can think of for why this happens.

Personal experience:If someone has a very impactful personal experience this may cause them to cling to certain erroneous beliefs,and no amount of evidence or reasoning will convince them to reconsider what they should believe.For alot of people personal experience trumps evidence.

2 Social acceptance:Some people may just want to be accepted by others so they only say things that are politically correct.This makes them feel secure because they are a part of the herd.It also gives them license to be bullies and do immoral things because their fake virtue covers that up.

3.Pandering:Some people just want to pander to idealogues for financial,social,or political gain. Derrick Jaxn is an example of this.He panders to feminist women.This makes him money and he gets to sleep with alot of women.

KRV_FromRussia · 2023-01-23T22:50:31+00:00

I mean me and my friends were on the opposite of debates. We disagree here, yet shake our hands on other topics

If he is willing to abandon your friendship because you have a different, HARMLESS viewpoint, then he has a lot of maturing to do.

Like others say: people who resort to insults, don’t have a leg to stand on

nineteenletterslong_ · 2023-01-23T22:44:36+00:00

it's like with every religion or dogma. everybody gangsta until you question theirs

SweatyAdvance · 2023-01-23T22:37:05+00:00

Well, you're right about one thing, it's 100% a dogma.

63daddy · 2023-01-23T22:40:51+00:00

Feminist agenda required people buy into their propaganda including patriarchy theory. Facts about such issues work against their agenda do they will dismiss such facts and typically refuse to discuss them.

Low_Cranberry_4024 · 2023-01-23T22:46:38+00:00

I have a very similar experience i got just on this site but I don't know how to post pictures on this reddit without it getting instantly deleted.

If anyone's know how to solve this issue I would appreciate it alot.

mastergardnar · 2023-01-24T05:58:45+00:00

Because the Patriarchy does not exists.

dw87190 · 2023-01-24T00:28:02+00:00

Beware the male feminist, never trust or tolerate a double agent

HyakuBikki · 2023-01-23T23:25:34+00:00

Because that's what happens when you challenge anyone who's been indoctrinated into a cult like ideology. They usually lash out in order to protect their own ego or out of fear that they might be targeted by the feminist hate mob for agreeing with you.

shit-zen-giggles · 2023-01-24T05:07:45+00:00

These aren't rational positions, but substitute religions. Always keep that in mind. Also people don't change their minds, see Planck's principle:

An important scientific innovation rarely makes its way by gradually winning over and converting its opponents: it rarely happens that Saul becomes Paul. What does happen is that its opponents gradually die out, and that the growing generation is familiarized with the ideas from the beginning: another instance of the fact that the future lies with the youth. — Max Planck, Scientific autobiography, 1950, p. 33, 97

Max Planck discovered quantum theory, the most thoroughly experimentally validated scientific theory ever. Even Albert Einstein opposed it, famously stating:

god doesn't play dice

This is why I often stated that the change we want to see will only manifest itself over generations.

Fuzzy_Department2799 · 2023-01-23T22:31:39+00:00

Because he knows what happens to those who speak out. He doesn't want to be punished.

Vegetable-Context232 · 2023-01-24T01:31:14+00:00

Easy... The patriarchy is the part where most if not all the problems of feminists stem from... It's their last resort if they lose an argument because it is easy to blame the patriarchy and claim that it is the root of all evil. It's hard to disprove and also enables them to put all the blame on men because if the world is run by men all bad that happens is caused by men.

So if you attack their fundament that is the basis for all their delusional claims and they feel how their delusion starts to crumble they get angry...

Professional-You2968 · 2023-01-24T06:19:40+00:00

Can you reason with an antivax? A flat earther? Someone convinced that the Holocaust isn't real? That's what you are dealing with I am afraid.

bigdaveysmalling · 2023-01-24T07:46:35+00:00

It’s a new religion for some people and any questioning is reacted to in the same way that you would get if you told someone who believes in god that he is not real.

As you said, dogma.

The reality is that some points feminists make are clearly true but as with any argument, they take it, 99% of the time, to the wrong place.

Upbeat-Resolution645 · 2023-01-24T15:59:59+00:00

Patriarchy doesn’t exist anymore, what’s there to talk about? We live in a gynocentric society, men need to band together now more than ever or else we’ll keep getting used and mistreated.

g1455ofwater · 2023-01-24T00:19:22+00:00

Maybe he's worried about losing his standing with people or groups that believe in that stuff so he's scared to even challenge that line of belief.

ThatRandomCrit · 2023-01-24T00:40:47+00:00

To answer your question: conditioning.

The people in power have been driving these points home and spitting out constant propaganda for years. White children are told they’re horrible for oppressing everyone else. Every other race is told they are being actively oppressed by said white kids. Men are told they are hateful bigots and should hate themselves for what they’ve “done” to women for generations. They should be frail and harmless otherwise they’re toxic. Women are told they should fear and hate men for what men put them through. Tiny issues with subsets of toxic men are exaggerated and multiplied to every man and then falsely equates to masculinity itself. It’s been a conscious effort from a particular set of marxist thinkers for just under a century and it’s working. It’s creating weak men and women who hate each other and can’t get a long term relationship going for the life of them with racial tensions refusing to die down despite systemic racism being basically eradicated decades ago. We’re weak, sexually degenerate, incapable of getting along, addicted to every substance we have available and porn listening to everything the screen people spout out.

griii2 · 2023-01-24T07:04:03+00:00

just show him this: r/ToxicFeminismIsToxic

stompin77 · 2023-01-24T10:57:39+00:00

Because the patriarchy is a term used by feminists so they can hate on men and blame men for all the problems they feel they have. In actual fact the world, at least the western world has been run by a woman for the last 60 odd years. She just died. Queen Elizabeth is on our coins here in Australia still. We've also had a woman prime minister in Julia Gillard. So I fail to see this patriarchy they claim has ruled over them all this time suposedly oppressing them. Notice they never once claimed this shit and went to protest the queen over it.

Antarkian · 2023-01-24T12:12:15+00:00

"Smart, well educated person"

Or

Programmed and well Indoctrinated

Confident_Notice975 · 2023-01-24T14:24:11+00:00

Because it doesn't really even exist.. women can literally kill a baby and beat the shit out of men, nobody cares.

HEADLESSVEGAS · 2023-01-24T14:55:05+00:00

OP, don’t sweat it man. The dude is obviously a brainwashed little simp. Be glad you’re better than that

Decitriction · 2023-01-24T16:26:10+00:00

Feminism (and the belief in the non-existent patriarchy) are a religion and an identity.

By questioning it, you tell him both that "his God is fake" and "his identity has no foundation."

Of course he's going to go nuts. Not your fault.

ralphswanson · 2023-01-24T00:47:49+00:00

Patriarchy is absolute bullshat. Women control most of the spending, own most of the wealth, are 55% of the electorate in most democracies, and enjoy legal privilege in domestic laws. The average man has no more power than the average women. Yet it is a maxim that we live in a 'Patriarchy', where some unseen force oppresses all women and give all men unearned privilege. Anyone who questions this bigoted, sexist nonsense is a called a misogynist.

Inquisitor_Euro · 2023-01-24T04:11:23+00:00

You have to remember the western world for the last 40+ years has had this message on repeat 24/7 in 1 form or another -

"Men are bad, Women are all victims, Men are bad, Women are angels, If you don't worship feminism you are Hitler, Men are bad"... but this largely only really applies to European men or men of European descent over in US/Canada/Australia/NZ.

Now if you dig, Dig and keep digging you will see that all the major pushers of feminism tend to share the same background i.e nigh on all come from very affluent families and once they've poisoned the water so to speak and made big bank from their rhetoric like selling books, Talks etc... they slither back to whence they came.

I know it's tin foil hat territory but the more you read the more you see it really is all about social engineering by the 00.01% and if you can hammer an ideology into peoples heads from an early age most will get very aggressive when this ideology is challenged AKA cognitive dissonance kicks in like it did with your friend... Much like someone who was indoctrinated into a religion/cult at an early age.

DiversityIsDivisive · 2023-01-24T00:21:26+00:00

You're forgetting: The first rule of the patriarchy is that you don't talk about the patriarchy.

I jest.

In seriousness, there's this:

A smart, well educated, well spoken person, refused to debate

Smart or intelligent is not the same as wise. Universities these days, especially, a producing thousands of very-educated fools. It's a stark contrast from when we Catholics first created the institution known as the university. The primary purpose was to make you a more wise, virtuous, and Godly Christian. Our institution has been wholly appropriated.

Standard-Broccoli107 · 2023-01-23T23:58:12+00:00

If you doubt things and are wrong you are a harmless goofball, flat earthers are just comedy gold. But if you are correct in your doubts then its dangerous. Your friend might risk losing jobs or social standing by discussing with you, not many want that.

rlyfunny · 2023-01-24T07:22:59+00:00

Show him an Argumentation pyramid, or just ask him how good his point can be if he straight up jumps to ad hominems.

Jesus_marley · 2023-01-24T08:03:00+00:00

People hold tightly to their religions and don't appreciate having them criticized.

AspirationsOfFreedom · 2023-01-24T08:54:57+00:00

If you cant argue the basis for your deffinitions, you cant argue at all.

Quick, if someone asks me why i dislike feminism. First i'll describe what it is, what it has done in the past, the current everexpancive move to add all kinds of wokeness and lgbtq+ in, to the point that infighting is overwhelming, and now feminism means so much diffrent things instead of being about its core principles.

Then i'll ask "why do you hate the mens rights movement/egalitarianism?", and usually its pretty much word for word some halfwitted article they read, something something patriarchy, injusticies....

And then they dont want to discuss it because that entales ether studying more or admitting fault. Nether suits the armchair activists well

odysseytree · 2023-01-24T08:55:05+00:00

Most men in 1st world countries may not indentify themselves as feminist but they have a feminist midset. Feminist mindset operates on feelings, not logic and this is why he immediately resorted to name calling. Also, don't talk about feminism with virgin men, they snitch on you for a woman very quickly.

NtsParadize · 2023-01-24T09:26:21+00:00

Because it's pseudoscientific

Myahmans · 2023-01-24T10:11:41+00:00

Years of Indoctrination cause people to not want to talk about the subject as it goes against everything the Indoctrination has taught them. People will shut down and go into defensive modes as soon as anything like that happens. Completely normal. At least for the people like you described your friend. Open to any conversation, excluding ones that actually go against the mainstream.

SatrapisMaster69 · 2023-01-24T11:13:27+00:00

They need something to blame so they don't have to think for too long.

Izalias · 2023-01-24T11:58:01+00:00

Topics aren't up for discussion when you know what is at stake and they have already been decided.

In the case of Global Warming, it is the lives of everybody on the planet.

When it comes to feminism, it is female safety and autonomy.

The earth being round is another one.

1 + 1 = 2...

Things that have already been looked at in depth and decided, tend to be beyond discussion.

Now, that is not to say that certain decisions couldn't be wrong, but some are more obviously right than others.

Saerain · 2023-01-24T12:15:28+00:00

Welcome to blasphemy.

redTanto · 2023-01-24T13:56:48+00:00

woke mind virus or evil

Mr_Joguvaga · 2023-01-24T16:10:14+00:00

Its not about the fact that you talked about patriarchy, i think its cause you believed something he didnt and he cant accept the fact that there are different oppinions.

Idk your friend or you but you said ve is reasonable with everything else. Something to think about is did yo uhave the same opinion or did you have different oppinions.

If you had the same he may be more reasonable csuse.. well you had the same oppinion but if you had a different and he still didnt freak out. Idk why he would have an issue with the patriarchy conbersation.

pm_me_your_buttbulge · 2023-01-24T16:51:10+00:00

Cussed me out (because a discussion about the patriarchy can't be complete without someone insulting the other), called me a radical, used a couple of dirty tricks to make me seem like a loony and that I hated women, refused to look at evidence because "if I sent you feminist information, you wouldn't look at it either" and that, from now on, he'd treat me like "those homeless people that come up to you to spew random bullshit.", in his words.

Sounds like the majority of Redditors, in general. They think they are being anti-sexist but in reality they are pro-sexism.

Part of the reason for that is when you talk about topics like these the implication is: If they are a feminist (or believe in feminism, modern feminism) - and they find out their data was collected dishonestly or presented in a misleading way maliciously AND THEY ACTED ON THIS DATA then what does that say about them?

Similarly you'll find people feel this when you talk about political parties.

A smart, well educated, well spoken person, refused to debate (but was ok with conspiracy theories)

Conspiracy theories usually stay in the land of fantasy or the "extremely crazy crowd" because they usually lack factual data to link many things together. They rely on a lot of "what if..." to cover the gaps and to be a magical "answer" to some things.

used logical falacies to make me look bad and said they'd never take me seriously again.

You'll find Reddit does this a lot as well. Practically all of r/news, 2X, feminism, r/technology, and more are very similar in such a regard.

What is it about the patriarchy/feminism discussion that makes logical, rational people devolve into cavemen?

The same thing that happens when you talk religion to someone. The risk of being wrong or, worse, saying something that may be perceived as wrong can ruin a career.

Some line of code from a game that can't be touched else it corrupts the entire game. It's so weird...

The most prolific example and easiest to point out is religion. "Everyone" has the "one true religion" and the other people are just wrong.

At the end of the day the ultimate logical conclusion is either a.) they are all correct or b.) they are all wrong. The probability of being all correct is magnitudes lower than being all wrong. But all, ALL of their arguments are the same. The magic word is "faith" and it "can't be touched". They believe because of faith... they have faith because of some mystical book (which could just as easily be a Superman comic, no really - logically it could be). It's circular logic and the only way to prevent people from breaking / point out it out is to make "faith" untouchable. When you actually start getting to the root of their "faith" you find it's empty but most people will fall back to attacking you in the same way your friend did.

It's part of the reason subreddits like news and technology will presume you are a right-winger if you are even remotely critical of the Democrats. It's why politics, and many other aspects of our society, are a "race to the bottom" so you can dismiss others.

Their over-reaction is quite telling but it's likely a reflection of how confident they are in their opinions with their data. They know anything that contradicts any of their foundation will cause the house of cards to crumble.

Imagine trying to convert a fan of the Dallas Cowboys to the New England Patriots. You'll find people will go from reasonable to almost violent fairly quickly.

You'll find several YouTube videos of some "gotcha" type stuff where people will cite a thing, claim it's women then "gotcha" it's men and the responses are... disgusting. When it aligns with their narrative - people are happy. When it doesn't they shit and go blind. From politics to ideologies like feminism. There's a neat bit of research that goes into this.

If you've made it this far in my comment a.) well done and b.) good news! There's a very fair chance they will slowly reconsider their stance. Let it go and/or just respond with something like "I'm very disappointed in you and your response, I thought you were better than that" - meaning, specifically, criticize their response and not their opinion. In doing so - they will question, slowly, or go into full lockdown and deeper in the rabbit hole.

You'll find a lot of people re-consider their opinion when a thing happens to them and society doesn't react the way their narrative tells them it should. Then many things come into focus.

COVID, American Healthcare, "extreme" politics, religion, you name it. It's all a house of cards and doesn't take a whole lot for someone to go "wait, what?" and that is when they need your support, not criticism.

This is more the MLK approach. You could take the more Malcom X and be more hostile but I don't think you'll win over many friends with that path as much as it will sate your righteous anger. I don't think you can have both. So it's a "pick one" thing. Or so I've observed in my decades of life on this planet.

lord_ma1cifer · 2023-01-24T18:06:14+00:00

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Not that disagreeing with you/me makes someone rubbish, but anyone who shuts down a conversation/argument entirely while refusing to entertain new information is choosing ignorance over knowledge and I simply cannot abide willful ignorence, it makes me furious when people refuse to acknowledge the truth because they'd rather be feel correct than be proven wrong. Its pure ego. If your "friend" is choosing to treat you like shit because you contradicted them, then they are a shitty friend. It's sad that this is the way propaganda and programming work, the victim actually defends the lie to their last breath because some people can't accept they were duped or tricked. It takes humility to be able to say "well damn I was totally wrong" and change your point of view accordingly.

Commercial_Ad_4522 · 2023-01-24T22:07:52+00:00

I just start discussing fact by fact basis - most people won’t respond to jumping straight in to big things but can agree and begin to see more easily (or statistically) explainable things like men being more likely to die of suicide

Angryasfk · 2023-01-25T06:58:13+00:00

It shows what he’s invested in. A male feminist? Or is he gay and deluded by the feminist/LGBT alliance? He’ll be in for a nasty shock someday if that’s it!

sabazurc · 2023-01-26T17:50:47+00:00

They are brainwashed since young age from cartoons to movies from schools to college. It's like religion for them and they are zealots...so much for secularism and atheism being better.

mvslice · 2023-01-27T17:04:26+00:00

You’re going to need to explain the “dirty tricks.” Which logical fallacies were used?

PactScharp · 2023-01-24T00:59:48+00:00

He's not that smart. Educated. Or open minded.

He's a fool & a gullible one at that.

RisingWolfe11 · 2023-01-24T15:41:39+00:00

Anytime I ask how we are in a patriarchy, I get told "there is a mountain of evidence just Google it"

And I either get blocked or banned. 😂 like that doesn't help your cause.

Im guessing that they don't wanna fo work and "explain" without compensation, another thing I've dealt with. I've been told I have to pay to talk about racism, patriarchy, anything that I apparently "can't talk about" despite others of my same nature talking about it? (Hi, woman. 😂 part of the MRM)

Its a "you dont have clearance to talk to us" type of bs.

If anyone wants to dispute my claim, by all means. Show me evidence I can walk outside right now and see how a patriarchy exists, or how i see it daily. Then maybe.

Either way, that's my take on it.

Face_Puzzleheaded · 2023-01-24T10:29:03+00:00

Get better friends.

He's just indoctrinated. Most teachers in schools are female. The women he dates are probably feminists. He's been fed this narrative his entire life and doesn't want to question it because his whole life will become a lie.

kaapplin · 2023-01-24T09:51:28+00:00

Maybe you said some wacky shit

skcuf2 · 2023-01-24T00:10:18+00:00

Oof, wall of text. I'd recommend paragraphs next time.

I'm guessing by what I could read that the discussion was heated and we're only getting one side of the story. Either way, anyone who says there is a patriarchy is confused about how things work. Simple as that.

No_Size_1333 · 2023-01-24T09:54:01+00:00

The partiarchy isn’t even a thing in most first world countries.

funkchucker · 2023-01-24T16:20:55+00:00

Wait, you don't believe that American society is patriarchal?

V0XR4NG3 · 2023-01-24T01:34:31+00:00

It's probably because there's solid sociological and historical data that show a patriarchal system is in place. Like, even taking a very shallow approach - what's your last name? Is it your mother's name?

The patriarchal system existing does not mean:

That it is inherently bad
That it shields men from every and all issues

I feel like this kind of denialist argument is really detrimental to the MRM. It makes you look like absolute tin foil hat wearing loons.

My honest tip to you all? Stop with the biological determinism and the denial of the patriarchy. You have a solid cause here. It's stopping you from getting what you need and being taken seriously as a social movement. You don't need to deny women struggle to argue men struggle. Angela Davis, not only a Feminist, but also a Marxist, in the last century argued that men struggle under and because of the patriarchy. It's really not a new concept. There's so much of what you guys talk about here that has been said before, and said before by feminists.

Any mature and knowledgeable person knows that it's not your fault as individuals that the world is fucked up. Unfortunately, most people aren't mature and knowledgeable. You allow this group to be filled and often represented by people who say that women are hardwired to be eugenicists. You're to blame for the fact your movement isn't taken seriously - just like the liberal feminists are for the downfall of their reputation.

Now, on my way to be downvoted to hell. But I swear my comment is in good faith. It was good meeting you

kefoolery · 2023-01-24T09:08:40+00:00

Patriarchy means a society lead or ruled by men. If you live somewhere with a male President or Prime Minister, you (by definition) live within a patriarchy.

The idea that it could be a myth is disingenuous.

Men dominate senior positions within finance, politics, sports, and most realms of life of import, across most cultures...

I don't know what particular nerve it struck with them but the language you used around it sounded very loaded and I'd ask for pause to address that before diving into any kind of discussion. I'd see it as a bad-faith opening statement.

The media™ doesn't push a feminist agenda. The media™ is mostly interested in maintaining the status quo. And which wave of feminism are you talking about? The lack of sophistication with which you address the oppression of 50% of people in society is a cause for alarm and they may have felt that there was too much unpacking for them to do.

outofmindwgo · 2023-01-25T13:51:36+00:00

Your friend is right

Title	Why can't the patriarchy be discussed?
Author	ThatRandomCrit
Upvotes	239
Comments	215
Date	January 23, 2023 10:16 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/10jp8l8/why_cant_the_patriarchy_be_discussed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-cant-the-patriarchy-be-discussed.1149178 https://theredarchive.com/post/1149178

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