Monogamy

Anonymous_fiend · 2022-02-24T08:40:56+00:00

From a religious perspective casual sex still affects men. Adultery was a capital punishment for a reason. Polygamy was only allowed as a necessary evil in Judeo-christisan religious to protect women and kids as starving to death was pretty common (and there's more women than men). And back then marriage wasn't for love it was more of a financial and practical agreement. Men don't carry the same risks that women do (pregnancy, difficulty decompartmentalizing, and higher levels of bonding through sex) but I disagree that it's 100% meaningless. But my views on sex are more than just physical. It's true HVM can find someone who is ok with this style of relationship. Not all hvm are non monogamous (and not all lvm or average men are monogamous) it's just that hmv have the abilty to exercise their options. He could also find a bi woman who is open to threesomes. If you aren't ok wirh him sleeping around then don't waste any more time with him. Love isn't what makes a marriage last. It takes similar values and compatability. That's why vetting is so important. What's compatable for you may not be a very alpha noncommittal man. A mix of beta and alpha traits is ideal in a husband and father imo. He seems pretty clear that doesn't want a monogamous relationship. Take a man at face value. You can't force him into it. That's a deal breaker for me but if you aren't religious it doesn't have to be for you. If you'd rather share him than be with anyone else then a don't ask don't tell type of arrangement may work...as long as he keeps it discreet to not embarrass you, doesn't impregnate any of the side women, takes care of your needs, doesn't bring home any diseases and respects any established boundaries. At the end of the day can you handle this? Or will it destroy your confidence and make you resent him? This is a choice you need to be certain about. Was he very upfront about these views in the beginning or did he wait to spring them on you after you were already emotionally invested? If he wasted your time by leading you on to believe he wanted a committed monogamous marriage that's unfair. And cruel. If he told you and you stayed well that's on you.

_Pumpkin_Muffin · 2022-02-24T16:21:16+00:00

So this man with very traditional values:

doesn't want to marry again ("but maybe in the future" = stringing you along)
doesn't want children to the point he had a VASECTOMY and didn't bother to tell you
doesn't want a monogamous relationship
has casual hook ups
cheated on you (he had sex with someone you were not ok, behind your back - that's cheating even for non monogamous couples)
is obviously spinning plates
is obviously NOT committed to you, your boundaries, your emotional well being

What is traditional about that? What's so "high value"? I hope he's at least insanely hot.

Fat_cunt27 · 2022-02-24T17:26:15+00:00

Sorry but he sounds awful

LateralThinker13 · 2022-02-24T18:35:29+00:00

I get that sex isn't emotional for men as it is for women but he says that he can have casual hook ups when he is out of town and he still loves me and it doesn't change how he feels about me.

This is maybe true for him, maybe not. But marriage is also about fidelity, sacrifice, and compromise. If monogamy is important to you, and variety is important to him, you aren't going to work and no denying your needs will fix this problem.

Truth is, the majority of men aren't like that. Plenty of men bond with their partners, and plenty of men don't need sex outside of marriage. Yours... maybe does. Which maybe means you two are incompatible.

EDIT: Wow, saw your comment below.

He has said that he doesn't want marriage.

If you do, walk away.

He was married prior but he has also said that maybe he will change his mind in the future. We are in a long distance relationship now he is military.

Wow. LD relationship with a military divorcee. No odds that will end poorly, none at all, no sir. red flag 1

And I stated that I was willing to turn a blind eye if he had some one night stands.

Do you even understand how much you are denying yourself if you do this? Accepting a behavior is fine; turning a blind eye is saying "I disagree with what you are doing but won't call you out on it". That's corrosive to your integrity and your relationship. WTF.

But not if he has sex on a regular basis with the same person. I recently found out that he had sex with the same woman 4 times and now he's telling me that he may or may not be monogamous in the future when he returns to the states that he could do it again or he may.

Which just tells me he doesn't want to be monogamous with you. Red flag 2.

As far as impregnation he has had a vasectomy but I didn't find out about that until the 1 yr mark.

And so he either doesn't trust you, or doesn't trust all women. Either way, red flag 3

Do you ENJOY being one of the plates he spins? Does it fulfill you? Because that's all you are, and from your passive, permissive behavior that's all you'll ever be. Show some self-respect and stand up for what you want, and then prove you deserve it. Most likely with another man, since this guy has more red flags than a matador.

kneesofthetrees · 2022-02-24T16:58:31+00:00

For me, this is grounds for a very swift breakup. Whether or not he has cheated is besides the point; you hold fundamentally different values, and accordingly, you will never fully trust him. Do not try to change him, as it will likely not get you anywhere but will breed bilateral resentment. I just do not see any possible way to reconcile this difference.

emmalai85 · 2022-02-24T12:42:06+00:00

I understood ethical non-monogamy, and was willing to offer it to my husband. He didn't take me up on it, until over a dozen years of being together, and then after we tried it, he decided that it wasn't a good idea for our relationship and we are monogamous by choice.

I'm very open minded, and I read what you're saying and I'm just gonna nope on out of it. Don't do this. He's not being ethical, he's not being honest, he's over-valuing his worth.

He's not giving you any commitment, or security, that would make playing with fire even worth touching.

There are plenty of high value men out there, who don't think cheating or being with other people all the time is worth it.

It does damage if you're not wired to be in an open relationship, and that's what we found out - that neither he, nor I, like to share, and it hurts us both. So we decided not to do it.

But we didn't do it from day one. We did it a dozen years later and a lot of communication and conversations on what we would do if things went wrong or it wasn't for us. I was willing to leave our relationship over it. I love him, but not at the expense of my emotional health. Sharing him that way, was not worth my sanity. And, he feels the same way about me. Which is why we could experiment, and still be together, because we were on the same page. You two are NOT on the same page.

You don't want this. You shouldn't accept it.

beepincheech · 2022-02-24T15:40:26+00:00

I’ve read through your other comments. This is VERY obviously a dead end relationship and you should have realized that early on.

Lando_620 · 2022-02-24T12:43:01+00:00

First your post & comments are a pain to read, use punctuation please. Second, it sounds kind of like you already know what you want to do...to stay with him. Your post & comments acknowledge his read flags, most of which he openly stated to you...yet you defend him in a manner that suggests you came here looking for validation in continuing the relationship not advice on what to do.

Ultimately, if people don't want to change don't waste time trying to change them. It won't happen. That leaves you with one choice, to accept what he told you and stay...or decide you are not okay with it and leave.

SunshineSundress · 2022-02-24T07:51:14+00:00

He says that he can still have casual hook ups when he is out of town and he still loves me and it doesn’t change how he feels about me.

I find this to be generally true. Men can compartmentalize sex easier than women can. Many men can definitely love one woman, and have no-strings attached sex with another without any indication of his feelings for the woman he loves. The same is generally not true for women, which may contribute to why this situation immediately feels so alarming.

It crushes my self esteem and I don’t know how to handle it.

That being said, it doesn’t really matter if it’s true or not. If non-monogamy is something that you are unable to deal with or feel good about, I think you two have a clear difference in goals and values, and a pretty big incompatibility. It will not be easy to navigate, and the hit to your self-esteem may make you unable to be a good partner and will make you question your relationship’s security.

I don’t necessarily see this as infidelity, because he’s being transparent with you about what he wants in a relationship instead of going behind your back. Even so, unless YOU can make peace with his views on non-monogamy, trust will be hard to maintain, and a relationship without trust is almost certainly doomed.

he said he just may feel the need for variety and a it comes with the territory dating a man of his status and its just sex for him.

Again, is it reality that high-status men who have more options are more likely to exercise those options? Yes. Is it true that some women who are with high-status, high SMV men are more likely to accept non-monogamy on his end? Also yes - and it would be naive to think that some of the wives of HVM are not turning a blind eye to their mistresses and side pieces. For some women, they would rather be in that position with a highly attractive man and reap the benefits of being their main woman.

But can YOU be that woman? If it just doesn’t feel right to you, then listen to your instincts, and perhaps consider that there is always tradeoffs when it comes to picking a mate. If you would rather have loyalty, maybe a high-rolling playboy bachelor isn’t the best option for you. There is a reason why we suggest RPWs vet for a man with a mix of good alpha/beta traits.

Side note: I’m mildly wary of a man who has to tell you about how high status and high value he is. It should speak for itself and be fairly obvious to you if it were the case. When he has to speak about it as a selling point for what he wants, it seems like he has to inflate his value to convince you that he’s worth it. If he were truly as high value as he’s trying to make it seem, you would have already accounted for it yourself and it would have been a major consideration that YOU chose to factor in when confronted with this situation.

FuzzyDice12 · 2022-02-24T10:50:48+00:00

I’m not saying this in a way meant to offend. You can find a LVM that has less options and more open to monogamy. You are not going to change your SO’s mind and some of what he’s saying IMO is true(the idea of casual sex not necessarily being an act of love and more “sport”.

But if you aren’t ok with this it’s better to move on. His mentality, it’s likely a matter of time before he exercises his options and I appreciate his honesty at least. Most dudes are cowards and wouldn’t, and even lvm cheat.

Pycnostyle · 2022-02-24T16:43:06+00:00

Based on your other comments, this dude is flying more red flags than a Chinese New Years parade. But I did want to answer this question for you:

Is this a common trend for all HVM that are into the red pill theory.

The answer is "it depends" on where the guy is on his life journey. For me, before I got married, I wanted to have all of the fun and variety that I could. But eventually that got a little repetitive and unexciting and I knew that I wanted to start a family. Met a young lady who wanted the same things out of life as I did and had the same values and we got along great and the rest was history.

For the sake of discussion, let's oversimplify HVM vs LVM as follows: a LVM has between 0 to 1 options for partners, whereas a HVM has 2 or more options. If you want a HVM, you have to contend with the fact that he's going to have options other than you. Another hallmark of an HVM is our self-discipline. You don't achieve your life goals without strong self-discipline. You need to be a big part of his story, part of his mission.

For me, I knew that I wanted a family, and that my wife was the right person to raise one with. There's no point in destabilizing that goal, just to bang someone else. Been there, done that.

aussiedollface2 · 2022-02-24T22:55:46+00:00

I feel like you need to consider whether you deserve better. Sorry that’s all I have to say re this xo

Inside-Language-5251 · 2022-02-25T03:52:32+00:00

I want to thank all of you all for giving me strength and advice its something i need....I lost my mom in 2016 to colon cancer and went through depression and an abusive relationship. I do not have any females in my life to turn to for advice. I am afraid I'm settling for this relationship because I don't want to end up alone and my self esteem took a hit in my prior relationship.

Cenniii · 2022-02-25T19:42:45+00:00

Just my 2 cents but HVM that want to care for you don't risk giving you Stds at such high stakes.

MuttonDressedAsGoose · 2022-02-24T08:11:15+00:00

Some people are not monogamous by nature. I know men and women who feel that way. And you don't have to agree with them. You don't have to accept it in a relationship.

While I do think men are more likely to feel inclined to variety, it is not something that you have to accept in a partner. But it is also something that you cannot change. This guy is telling you what he expects and feels justified in doing. At best you can guilt him into lying to you about staying monogamous.

There is a concept called ethical nonmonogamy. It involves transparency on all sides - with every partner - and informed consent for all. There is also a conscious recognition of any power imbalances and an emphasis on fairness. For example, if one partner demands permission to sleep with others but cannot tolerate the same from their partner, that's not fair. And people who are ENM know that it's not for everyone.

sunflowergirls85 · 2022-02-24T17:46:52+00:00

OP, why do you treat yourself this way? Don’t you know there are many other men in the world?

Let me ask you a serious question. If you had a daughter, is this the kind of man you would want her to date/marry?

Hellokittynole · 2022-02-24T21:34:47+00:00

There is nothing trad about this man.I’ve read your comments and he seems like absolute garbage and low value. You need to go through some RPW material again.

Bubbly_Window_6719 · 2022-02-24T13:13:00+00:00

He sounds like a selfish person, out for his own good only. And that is ok - but you deserve better! His selfishness needs to be addressed.

pearlsandstilettos · 2022-02-24T06:58:23+00:00

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fearofgodd · 2022-02-24T19:27:35+00:00

From a male POV i can tell you that he can be real about that. I'm a man and I love my wife, but my sexuality is something I can't risk. Women never wonder why their men get fat, loose hairs, and became "weak". This all about our hormons, money and self-confidence. And knowing that we still in the game is a huuuuge booster you can't find anywhere else. Obviously the majority of modern women don't understand this and you can see where males (and indirectly women) are at now : avoiding engagement, fearing responsabilities, swapping roles, sharing 50/50... I'm 32 and i experienced more things then the majority here, so if you don't agree, i respect it but this above is my truth

pinkdrawings · 2022-02-25T05:00:57+00:00

Did you disagree with him? How did he respond?

Advanced_Bar_673 · 2022-02-25T05:07:15+00:00

Hi there! F 44, I have recently introduced transparent non - monogamy into my relationship (2 yrs), for my boyfriend (M 44). I want to offer some suggestions, but I'd like to caution that I believe these options should likely only be explored with a partner who DEFINITELY sees you holding a permanent place in their life, as the potential for anxiety and heartache on your side is probably huge if you don't have the emotional security you crave in your relationship to explore these.

(For the record, this was not an easy decision for me, and I posted here as well as talking to a therapist and good friends)

My bf and I had several calm and lengthy discussions about our sexual needs and wants in the relationship, and although I prefer to keep our relationship closed and exclusive, I "get it" logically that he craves variety.

So, I drew up a Hall Pass system (subject to change) to try and meet in the middle. Now, I think I have more security with my guy than you do yours (he said he would not end our relationship if I ultimately decided the Hall Pass system doesn't work for me), but I wanted to try this because I want him to lead a fulfilled life, and I genuinely believe he needs this to feel "optimized" in a LTR.

Some of the boundaries include: *All activities transparent and above board. I personally cannot entertain a "Don't ask/ don't tell" policy. * Only hired professionals. This reduces the odds that a "square girl" is going to try and casually hook up with him on the side or interfere with our relationship, since paid escorts go away after and rarely initiate subsequent contact. *We start with threesomes. I'm very bisexual, so for me a threesome is a great way to have fun myself, and feel like we are doing this as a bonded couple. These are unlimited, no cap on # of encounters. * He has 3 Hall Passes per year, and can go to any type of venue (massage parlor, escort, etc). I will be accepting and he is free to see whom he wants, and he agrees to let me know when and where and who he is seeing. All he has to say is "Babe, I'd like to use my Hall Pass today" and will accept his needs (and he agrees if I'm having a bad day or feel it's poor timing then he will reschedule).

It's all a work in progress, but having an open, calm, and honest discussion about everything has truly helped me feel less anxiety and unsure. Of course, nothing is ever guaranteed. All we can do is try out best and feel at peace with our decisions.

Try sitting and writing up an agreement of some sort where you both have defined boundaries. Even just the act of writing it down, proof reading, and modifying at your own pace can bring more inner peace. Then decide if you are comfortable with pursuing these or other options. Good luck!

Best of luck!

Hodgekin · 2022-02-25T18:15:52+00:00

This is a perspective of a man, 31. (Edit: I'll just add in, I'm an average man. I understand what a HVM is and how that can affect their perspective.)

My perspective may be unique, I don't represent all men.

I don't care if he wants to justify cheating with things like, men are biologically wired to spread their seeds, or it doesn't affect their attachment. Cheating is wrong. Period. That's where you should draw the line.

Now to give you some counter arguments and my thoughts overall.

1`st, having a biological desire does not mean it's good or bad. People are biologically wired to seek dopamine. That's why we have addiction. Guess what, addiction isn't good. It doesn't matter if you want to justify it by saying you have a biological urge to do it. Behavior void of morality isn't good. You need behavior based in morality; not biological urges.

2nd. Men are not as emotionally attached. That's true. But it doesn't mean they are completely unaffected. For the men who choose this lifestyle of casual sex. You degrade women as casual sex partners, but you also degrade yourself. There's no value in a person who can't control their sexual prowess. The value comes from his ability to have multiple partners, not in actually having multiple partners. Sleeping around shows lack of control, loyalty and commitment. All traits that are more valuable than looking attractive and getting multiple one night stands.

3rd. Women cheat on men emotionally. Men cheat on women physically. I'm 100% sure, if he actually loves you, he would not want you to cheat on him emotionally. I don't condone cheating, so don't do it as revenge. But it shows that he hasn't thought this through. If he's going to allow himself to cheat on you physically, he should allow you to cheat on him emotionally. If he does allow this, this shows he doesn't care about you and you are replaceable to him.

4th. Don't be the person who condones this sort of behavior. If you allow him to cheat on you with no consequence, you are condoning this behavior and have no right to complain about it. Don't reward people for bad behavior. Don't enable him to have consequence free casual sex. He's probably doing this because his past relationships allowed him to get away with it, maybe you're his first and he's testing his limits. I don't know. But you ought to teach him that you're not a push over and you have morals.

5th. All that said and done, you need to really consider to stay or leave. Even if he says he won't do it. The fact that he brought it up to you means he wants to do it. And now you'll be in a relationship where you can't 100% trust you partner when he leaves out of town. Do YOU want to be in a relationship where you don't have 100% trust in your partner? Are you OKAY with doubting every minute whenever he's at work? That takes a toll on people and will drive you insane. Don't put yourself in that sort of predicament.

Inside-Language-5251 · 2022-02-25T18:21:15+00:00

Thank you for your perspective. For your #2 no he would absolutely never want me to even be friends with another man. He doesn't consider casual sex if it happens to be cheating as we discussed it before we even attempted to do this LDR. He states that's He is basically just masturbating with another woman's body to get off. He doesn't openly tell me about these casual encounters I asked him if it has happened since he has been there and he told me. He came to visit in December and we discussed things and he hasn't been with another woman since last August.

pearlsandstilettos · 2022-02-25T21:44:52+00:00

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Inside-Language-5251 · 2022-03-09T18:03:42+00:00

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Inside-Language-5251 · 2022-02-25T04:43:11+00:00

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Title	Monogamy
Author	Inside-Language-5251
Upvotes	22
Comments	135
Date	February 24, 2022 6:41 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/t048o4/monogamy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/monogamy.1103190 https://theredarchive.com/post/1103190

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