Profs say female STEM grades don’t reflect ‘perceived effort’ - they propose that “science educators could redistribute grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines to increase STEM retention.”

lonelystar82 · 2018-07-27T15:34:12+00:00

female students believe they work harder than their male classmates for similar grades, indicating that "women's higher perceived effort levels are not rewarded."

entitlement

Ill_Will7 · 2018-07-27T15:51:06+00:00

"Don't reflect perceived effort?"

My perceived effort of working hard makes me believe I should be a billionaire.

Please refer me to the department of free money for crying like a itchbay

HereToOffendIdiots · 2018-07-27T16:36:00+00:00

I want my bridges built by a team of engineers made up of women who only made the grade because they were women....o wait.

Mattcwu · 2018-07-27T18:48:18+00:00

No, we need Engineers to be highly-skilled not just hard-working. Otherwise, bridges could collapse, people could die.

SweatyAdvance · 2018-07-27T16:15:23+00:00

Did anyone here see the paper posted a few days ago that said female students receive significantly higher grades from female middle school teachers than boys did. And that the female students believed that they would be getting higher grades from male teachers, that they didn't get, which was then perceived as male sexism.

This appears to me to be just more of that. These female students think that the male professors aren't grading them high enough, and it must be because "muh patriarchy" and definitely not because they haven't earned higher grades.

Banned-in-Boston · 2018-07-27T16:13:33+00:00

"I really, really, really worked very hard on that highway bridge engineering plan. OMG! All those people died when it failed. It couldn't have been my design, I tried very, very, very hard in college and got a B+ in all my classes! Its NOT MY FAULT!"

Said every curve-graded STEM graduate with a pussypass.

thrway1312 · 2018-07-27T15:42:45+00:00

Women inflating their efforts to make themselves feel better about the reality that they're treating study time as social hour

Nice try hamsters, engineering won't succumb to feels before reals because there's actual repercussions for unqualified practicing engineers

ggggggggee · 2018-07-27T19:07:08+00:00

I was programming in the computer lab once and then a bunch of female liberal arts majors came in. They had a talk on "Females in Stem." I shit you not, one of them complained that if she was "exposed" to STEM as a kid she might have majored in comp sci instead of Ethnic Studies.....I was never exposed to programming or math past algebra...I just signed up for the classes LMFAO.

The entitlement and victimhood mentality where nothing is their fault is unreal. Just take responsibility for your actions and try it out...or just admit that you didn't want to have to go through all of the painful classes...don't blame "not being exposed".

smokebowlington · 2018-07-27T17:11:01+00:00

I "perceive" a generation of young men learning science and technology through YouTube videos instead, and still being better at it.

CopperFox3c · 2018-07-27T16:21:20+00:00

Meritocracy ... RIP.

On a related note, my experience teaching STEM at a major university in the United States (described down in the comments) was that many of the people in those departments these days don't have any business teaching anyone. Many of them don't understand the point of education is to teach people how to think, not what to think.

The bias is rampant, Orwellian though-speak, Harrison Bergeron type attempts at "equality of outcomes" ... is even starting to creep into traditional STEM fields.

doubtless_abyss · 2018-07-27T17:38:41+00:00

Praying to God I never get medical treatment from anyone who graduated with all A’s for effort

JcHgvr · 2018-07-27T18:35:33+00:00

This is nothing to laugh at, female students at math exam in Oxford university were given extra 10 minutes of time to help them get their grades up. Slowly but surely man are being pushed to the bottom at every part of life.

kremer5 · 2018-07-27T16:50:54+00:00

if they work harder to receive similar grades, doesn't that imply lesser competency? most tests in STEM courses are anonymous, a fill in the bubble exam graded by a machine. so unless the machines were programmed to be sexist...

i don't think women are less competent - just pointing out how this was not thought through

RandomReeditUser · 2018-07-27T17:37:00+00:00

Do you want more collapsed bridges? Because this is how you get more collapsed bridges.

ECoast_Man · 2018-07-27T16:57:04+00:00

women's higher perceived effort levels are not rewarded

perceived effort levels

It just doesn't get any better than this now does it?

Take note it doesn't say 'STEM grades don't reflect actual effort'. It is perceived effort. The study shows women aren't actually working as hard, or harder, than their male colleagues. In other words, women think that McNerd or Chadlogger just stroll into class, work less hard, and do as good or better when it is not reality, and we apparently need to changing grading practices to reflect this.

It would actually be more acceptable in my opinion if it found women actually work as hard as men, but are just not as good at the old maths and logical reasoning things, and in an effort to make up for that they get a bump. That would still be shit, don't get me wrong, but accommodating perceived work ethic differences is substantially worse - it's validating delusion, not reality.

But let's set aside the white knighting and 'strong independent womyn' who performed the study for a moment, and think of the subjects - the women.

Are any of us surprised by this? I'm sure as fuck not. The vast majority of women I've dated perceive working as hard as I do, and I'm sure I'm not unique. This is what drives women who work at the fucking DMV or a receptionist to demand their engineer/lawyer/doctor/entrepreneur husband to 'do half' the house work because 'I work hard too, you shitlord'. It's delusional - they are not able to think rationally in any sense of the word when it comes to this.

My advice- I actually counter this now by dating 'down' for plates when we are talking relative occupations - way down. Waitresses, hairdressers, basic occupations really. Most of these women are so in awe of what I do because it carries so much more responsibility than theirs than you get less of this shit. Plus, they tend to be hotter and more pleasant all around in my experience.

Dazzing67 · 2018-07-27T17:11:02+00:00

i feel like females got this delusional view because statistics keep saying 70% of uni graduates are women, without mentioning what studies they majored in. besides that is also the difference that we have testosterone, even if males drop out, chances are they're still gonna be earning more by starting own bussinesses etc. i mean grades and degrees are not a free pass to success. testosterone gives us more drive to be agressive and competitive and to be very motivated.

Zahlix · 2018-07-27T18:05:01+00:00

Hahahahahahahaha

Source: Graduate Engineer

Diabloist337 · 2018-07-27T17:15:45+00:00

Man : 2 + 2 = 4

Scored 2 out of 5 because of Male Privilege

Woman : 2 + 2 = "I feel sad because I dreamed about a red flower"

Scored 5 out of 5 because of Perceived Effort.

Makes sense.

Exodus230 · 2018-07-27T16:42:11+00:00

Men work hard and think they can work harder.

Women dont work hard but think they couldn't work harder.

everydaythrowaway75 · 2018-07-27T18:02:10+00:00

Two quick takes:

Thoughtful take: Why should anyone’s “perceived efforts” ever be rewarded. Why should we ever value effort? IDGAF how hard you try, only about results. The more you can accomplish per unit of effort the better. We should reward smart and effective efforts that lead to success. Effort has no value in and of itself.

Snarky take: I’m sure I’ll only be in a “perceived” plane crash when the engine fan blade separates due to “perceived” shitty engineering done by someone who “perceives” their effort as good enough.

[deleted] · 2018-07-27T17:57:53+00:00

Nature doesn't care how hard you work. It's only in an overly maternal society that people start caring about your effort, let alone your self perceived effort. Nature cares about results.

If you want to destroy our society then feminize STEM. The more patriarchal societies will pull ahead.

This isn't a matter of "men smart, women dumb". It's just the simple fact that the values women have are of a nurturing quality so that they can raise babies to be good children. The values men have are to teach children to be adults who live in our cold reality. STEM isn't about feelings and as soon as it is it ceases to be STEM and turns into a daycare.

justtenofusinhere · 2018-07-27T17:23:48+00:00

That's typical for the female mindset. They want to be minimally invested so they can claim a full share. "I'll carry the trowell, you carry the ten 50lb bags of cement, and together we'll get everything set up!"

can_you_read · 2018-07-27T21:19:00+00:00

That article cherry-picked the hell out of the study. Did you bother to read it? They didn't separate most things out by gender, and they didn't recommend redistributing grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines, they just mentioned that someone else has suggested that. A single sentence, about someone else's idea, buried in the discussion. Finally, in that comment where they mention that, there was no mention of gender and that section wasn't about gender; that was a comment about the effect of grades on motivation in the entire study population, men and women included.

Check your sources. You should be embarrassed for repeated cherry-picked and misleading drivel.

usku · 2018-07-27T17:57:08+00:00

An individual with Down’s syndrome will have to work harder then most, but would likely not get the grades required to pass a STEM related course.

Do we reward that individuals perceived effort with a degree in structural engineering?

Not saying it’s entirely comparable, but rewarding people who are not capable of making the grade in a highly competitive and highly technical field results in buildings that tip over, planes that fall out of the sky, and biotech companies that create homeopathic vaccines.

BobSagetV2 · 2018-07-27T18:01:59+00:00

In other news: "Bridge collapses because the engineers didn't learn anything in college"

Zanford · 2018-07-27T21:43:39+00:00

I like how they inadvertently admit that non-STEM grades are bullshit and based on 'perceived effort'

That won't fly in STEM. "Yeah the bridge collapsed and killed people, but we worked really hard on it!!"

Original_Username7 · 2018-07-27T22:06:15+00:00

CEO who hires STEM professionals here. I was avoiding hiring women after #METOO, now I'll definitely be doing it since it sounds like their grades will likely be fabricated too.

I'm sorry, but most women do actually still WANT to be hirable, right?

EqualResponsibility · 2018-07-27T20:45:09+00:00

Holy fuck balls. They deserve better grades because they FEEL they worked harder? I kept hoping this was a Onion post.

ISaidThatOnPurpose · 2018-07-27T17:30:30+00:00

Are women saying they are less capable in this??

Aconite_Eagle · 2018-07-27T18:49:47+00:00

But...it's perceived....individual perception is irrelevant. Results only matter. Idiots.

Cantloginhere · 2018-07-27T19:39:18+00:00

This is fake news for sure, did you read the other link where 'professors' want to redefine physics because of white male privilege? Apprently 'the laws of nature' imply a male law maker indicative of the white patriarchy. I kid you not. This either a troll site or spoof.

McDrMuffinMan · 2018-07-27T21:59:49+00:00

Welfarism... But in schools, oh how the social left is hell bent on destroying everything in their pursuit of social justice

Maybe we could... You know... Admit men and women are different?

TheDevilsAdvokaat · 2018-07-27T22:23:58+00:00

When will this foulness end?

Now they want to grade women not on how hard they work, but how hard they FELT they worked?

Not only is feminism toxic, it's outright becoming dangerous. This is a wonderful way to destroy science education.

Let's reward people not based on merit, but based on how hard THEY think they worked!

SILENTSAM69 · 2018-07-27T18:10:06+00:00

Those who can get better grades with less effort deserve the highest grades. Those who struggle to achieve should not be rewarded.

[deleted] · 2018-07-27T20:15:36+00:00

So....more collapsed bridges.

thetotalpackage7 · 2018-07-27T20:48:55+00:00

Ever notice the hoops that crazy libtards jump through to explain the obvious?

sjdfhskdjfh · 2018-07-27T22:11:06+00:00

I definitely want them designing the airplanes I ride in

Ezaar · 2018-07-27T17:09:12+00:00

You get fisted evenly, irrespective of gender in the STEM

pbar · 2018-07-27T18:08:47+00:00

In other news, a study shows that more women would become airline pilots if grades on their licensing tests reflected their perceived effort to learn how to fly a plane.

rossiFan · 2018-07-27T18:13:31+00:00

This doesn't just pertain to females, though. As companies and learning institutions shoe horn unqualified people into positions and student slots in the name of diversity, your product's quality will suffer. The FAA is finding this same ailment in their ATC program.

RPLawyer · 2018-07-27T20:14:15+00:00

My perceived level of effort means that my boss should pay me more than other employees. Do I get that or do I need to a pussy ?

FOldGG · 2018-07-27T22:06:03+00:00

Hmmm. Combine this discussion with the grade inflation of high schools that in some major cities produce less than 20% of students unable to demonstrate proficiency in math and english and then see how it turns out for all of us.

Just seems that equal opportunity is still the best target, understanding it does not produce equal outcomes.

grandmasbroach · 2018-07-28T01:29:09+00:00

When a female engineers bridge collapses and kills a bunch of people. Are they just going to say... Well, she tried so hard when she was building it though, so you can't be mad🤣

Zirealeredin · 2018-07-28T02:37:03+00:00

Jesus Christ we are in trouble

kyledontcare · 2018-07-28T12:37:22+00:00

Are the ladies at the female owned engineering company who built the collapsed bridge in Florida the ones who had their grades redistributed? Who cares if they put in effort? Is their work right? That's the important point.

MattyAnon · 2018-07-28T16:19:10+00:00

Have heard this from women before, in one particular example it was "I have to work FOUR times harder than the men doing the same job as me".

In other words, she believed that men could do their job in 10 hours and she had to work 40.

Even_the_Yuenglings · 2018-07-28T16:37:50+00:00

This entire thread is falsified. The study made no mention of ANY gender bias whatsoever in the abstract OR data. Jesus christ this entire sub has been infiltrated by incels and morons who CHOOSE not to read.

c_w_o_o_l_l_y · 2018-07-27T16:13:10+00:00

They should realize that degrees as well as salaries aren't a reflection of how hard you work by itself. It's how hard you work multiplied by your utility. Women may work harder, but they have less utility in STEM fields. Something about being less logical, idk...

ABitterPill2 · 2018-07-27T20:40:21+00:00

Here we go. Once you allow women into your institution they will erode it until it no longer has any value. On a micro scale we see this with individual things like academia, the military, and corporations. On a macro scale we see that allowing women into the body-politic erodes the entire fabric of the civilization. Men are civilization. It is a system created by men to distribute pussy evenly so that there is social tranquility. Women were always just along for the ride. Once the west decided that women could be part of the decision making process, it signed its own death warrant.

Press2ForEnglish · 2018-07-27T17:43:25+00:00

Liberalism is a cancer that kills everything it touches. If you don't remove it at the cellular level it will spread to your area eventually.

Ignoring it won't stop it from spreading.

FlyingSexistPig · 2018-07-27T16:52:45+00:00

I don't care about your feels. I care that you did the science and math correctly and got the right answer. It's important that your long history of getting the right answers gives me confidence that you did everything right to land the spacecraft on a comet.

Chitlinsandgravy · 2018-07-27T20:27:28+00:00

I could only respect the fact that the professors involved are having this discussion to acknowledge the "problem" as a form of Machiavellianism. Other's have covered entitlement.

I feel the need to echo Milo by stating that more women aren't in STEM by choice.

Nov51605 · 2018-07-27T21:03:32+00:00

Wow, how could these women be thinking straight when they are providing the answer with their own statement ?
They have to worker harder to barely even get the same results as dudes - HELLO!

PithyPneumothorax · 2018-07-27T23:22:41+00:00

“This is John Galt speaking...”

bookloverphile · 2018-07-27T23:43:22+00:00

Well duh professors say that. They wanna keep their fucking jobs.

Captain-coldblood · 2018-07-27T23:45:19+00:00

This is simply robbing the stem corporations of highly skilled,highly intelligent workers... this will destroy the country... this has to be the doing of the russians or someone who wants to fuck u.s companies right up

Banincoming · 2018-07-28T01:14:52+00:00

Dumb people can work harder and still get worse grades.

Dravous · 2018-07-28T01:19:23+00:00

see, this is when planes start falling out of the sky and people get killed for not receiving the correct meds. it's all well in good when your degree in feminist dance theory gets you nothing but a job at starbucks, but when lives actually depend on you knowing wtf you're talking about, it's time to put away the kid gloves.

francisco_DANKonia · 2018-07-28T03:03:34+00:00

effort is great and all but it's completely worthless if you still suck

binrobinro · 2018-07-28T03:55:46+00:00

If someone's splicing my genes for me, I don't give a shit about their "sense of self-efficacy". I just want it done right.

tyrryt · 2018-07-28T04:38:18+00:00

Too bad aircraft engines and skyscraper foundations don't give a fuck about your "perceived effort".

idontdrinkvodka · 2018-07-28T05:06:42+00:00

What the hell.

Tests on STEM rewards knowledge, not effort. Knowledge.

Including, some people do well on tests without needing near as much effort as other people usually do, because they have knowledge. As tests rewards knowledge, these gifted people get to move upwards quickly. Knowledge.

Oh yeah, we can not afford to have engineers getting graded just because of "effort" whatever gender this person identifies as. Else, there will be planes, bridges and skyscrapers falling on us as result.

monadyne · 2018-07-28T06:51:25+00:00

The bridge you're designing doesn't care how hard you worked on the project, or the personal hurdles you overcame. It only cares if the physics of the loads and stresses are adequately dealt with... so the bridge won't collapse. Grading on a curve may be appropriate in entirely subjective academic fields, like Lesbian Dance Theory, or even Comparative Literature, but not in STEM fields.

derindel · 2018-07-28T13:11:33+00:00

Prepare to have a bunch of shit fall down in the next 10 years. Shit like this is un fucking believable.

Sin-Silver · 2018-07-28T15:25:39+00:00

I’m dyslexic and dyspraxic and had to work 50% harder than all my university In order to pass my electronics degree.

If we where marked on “perceived effort” I would have gone to Cambridge.

chalbersma · 2018-07-29T05:20:34+00:00

STEM Education done well is all about rewarding outcomes not effort. If you and your peer get the same answer but your peer gets it faster or with less effort that's called efficiency. That's what STEM done well is trying to teach.

newName543456 · 2018-07-29T11:43:52+00:00

Meanwhile women don't reward effort men put in bettering themselves, only want the final product.

killabeesindafront · 2018-07-30T02:47:17+00:00

In my med school orientation, ~90% of the presenters were female. Notable exceptions include the intramural sports guy and the cop.

Your_Coke_Dealer · 2018-07-30T20:14:34+00:00

feel...feel...perceived

That’s all I needed to see here

crqze7 · 2018-07-27T20:17:18+00:00

Working on my masters in mechanical engineering and I can totally confirm this. My female colleges in my engineering classes (like all 3 of then) are very reliant on others or the internet to pass and it's super obvious to the rest of us.

Title	Profs say female STEM grades don’t reflect ‘perceived effort’ - they propose that “science educators could redistribute grades more akin to non-STEM disciplines to increase STEM retention.”
Author	redpillschool
Upvotes	632
Comments	177
Date	July 27, 2018 3:16 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/92ddv3/profs_say_female_stem_grades_dont_reflect/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/profs-say-female-stem-grades-dont-reflect.226294 https://theredarchive.com/post/226294

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entitlement