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[–]MobileD 161 points162 points163 points 14 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link
Really? Shit like this doesn't help the MRM.
[–]WildYams 67 points68 points69 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
I agree. Men's rights should ideally be what feminism is supposed to ideally be: about finding equality for everyone. When the MRM instead devolves into what feminism also sometimes devolves into (i.e. simple sexism), it's incredibly off-putting.
Equality in this case should be everyone should be able to make sandwiches, fix cars, computers, etc. Not that guys should have one job and women should have another and it's better off that everyone just stick to their pre-defined gender role. Two wrongs do not make a right.
[–]Arxl 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No movement is truly ideal.
[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
goddamn, thank you. many of the men who post here do not realize that in a technical terms, this is a FEMINIST subreddit.
when a woman asks a man to fix her computer or to open a jar, it is not an emasculating question. she knows what kind of skills the man that she is talking possesses, and asks for his assistance hoping he is a nice enough guy to help her.
when a man asks a woman to make him a sandwich, unless he is sick/a child/unable to do it himself, he is degrading her with a phrase that may aswell be derogatory to women. at the exception of helping a drunk friend get sober, i have never been asked to make a sandwich in a context that did not imply "you are a woman, you are inferior and you can do little more useful than make a sandwich".
TL;DR this post is STUPID
[–]dakru 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree with this. I'm a guy and I don't know how to fix a car, for example. But I haven't met anyone who thinks that it's my job as a man to know how to fix a car. I do know how to fix computers though, and I often help people with that because they know that I can do it, not because it's my job as a man.
The expectation that it's a woman's job to cook and prepare food (including sandwiches) is pretty prevalent. There are definitely parallels to this for men, but they're more the idea that it's the man's job to be the primary breadwinner. Of course if a particular woman is particularly good at cooking and preparing food it isn't unreasonable for her to do that, just as it wouldn't be unreasonable if a particular man were good at cooking and preparing food.
Although your assertion that this is a feminist subreddit really depends on someone's idea of feminism. If by feminism you mean gender equality (which I assume is your meaning), then yes (although this is gender equality from a different perspective). But many people, especially here, don't see feminism as that idealised version, but rather as misandrist (just as many feminists see this board as misognyist).
[–]T0mServo 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
eh...I could make a better sandwich than my woman anyway :-p I made a Reuben last night that was restaurant worthy.
[–]TimesWasting -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I see the "sandwich making" to mean more like "women cooking." In that case I can see how a woman asking a man to fix her car and a man asking a woman to cook him a meal is the same thing as those things have to be learned individually and aren't just simple things like making a sandwich.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
i don't think you get it, it doesn't really matter what you see it to mean. the literal meaning is not offensive, of course. but "make me a sandwich" has evolved to mean "be my bitch, subservient woman."
unless of course are trolling, at which point. good job. i will indeed cook you a meal. then we can play some cards or something.
[–]TimesWasting 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm not trolling. Obviously "make me a sandwich" is offensive. It's like saying "come blow my nose" or "come wipe my ass." You don't need someone to do it, and asking someone to do it in that way is just insulting.
I'm saying that things like fixing a car shouldnt equal "making a sandwich" and that I see it more to mean like cooking a meal or something. Fixing cars or computers or cooking aren't just things any idiot can do. They take some learning. Sure those things might not be HARD to learn, but you still have to learn them. My parents have a healthy old fashioned marriage where my mom cooks and cleans and my dad fixes things.
I'm male and personally would rather cook than fix cars. So what I'm saying is, a woman asking a man to "fix her car" is more akin to a man asking a woman to "cook him a meal," rather than "make him a sandwich."
[–]A_Nihilist -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
this is a FEMINIST subreddit
Lolwut?
[–]Amunium 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
He/she is right, technically it is. It's about equality between genders, which feminism is supposed to be. The reason we're against feminism is because it's been twisted into the exact opposite by most of its supposed proponents, namely a fight for female entitlement.
[–]A_Nihilist 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Feminism is too far gone to ever make a comparison to "equality" again.
[–]Amunium 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm inclined to agree, but look in a dictionary and that's still the definition you'll find, as well as what most radical feminists will claim they are for. It's what it was supposed to be.
[+]NiceIce 14 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
this is a FEMINIST subreddit.
You could not possibly be more wrong.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
you could potentially be more ignorant concerning the roots of the men's rights movement. perhaps this subreddit is not a feminist one in nature, but its name implies it.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
the original feminist movement was for gender equality which includes men's rights. i was not aware that feminists liked to label other people feminists...
[–]Nebu 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In an ideal world, everyone would have all skills to perform all tasks, but in practice, different people have different skills in different areas. In some areas, people may in fact have zero skills (e.g. I have zero heart-surgery skills).
My personal interpretation of the OP wasn't a reinforcement of gender roles: I didn't see the image as saying only women should make sandwiches and only men should fix cars. Instead, my interpretation was that this particular man can fix cars, and he feels that in response to be asked to fix cars and acquiescing to those requests, he should in return be allowed to request sandwiches, to avoid this relationship being one-sided with him doing all the work (i.e. fixing cars AND fixing sandwiches, in the hypothetical situation where the only favors that can be done for one's SO is to either fix their car or fix them a sandwich).
[+][deleted] -17 points-16 points-15 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
It's a bit of humor. Don't get so uppity.
[–]MobileD 19 points20 points21 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
You may call it humor, but it's not funny. This is exactly the kind of stuff that the rest of Reddit loves to link to and go: Lulz, look at these misogynistic bastards. The rest of the MR front page could be full of horrors that have happened to Fathers, Ex-husbands, and falsely accused men, but this post takes away from all of it. This overused joke does absolutely nothing to push the movement forwards, but much to push it back.
That's why I'm "uppity".
edit Formatting.
[+][deleted] -14 points-13 points-12 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Yeah it's humor wrapped around an old sexist statement. How's that hard to understand?
Damn, you sound like the guy heckling meanly in the theater when some comedian on stage makes something remotely offensive.
[–]MobileD 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Where did it seem that I don't understand what OP posted? I was pointing out that this is hardly the place or time to post this. Also, I would hardly compare what I said to heckling a comedian onstage.
If I go to a comedian, I want to be entertained, and to laugh. I do not come to the Men's Rights subreddit to be entertained and laugh. I come to hopefully bring light to some of the hardships and double standards that men face.
[–]acolossalbear 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
You seem like the type of guy who thinks rape jokes are really funny.
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
So because you and the lot of people here are butthurt over an OBVIOUS PIECE OF HUMOR I'm suddenly a 'rape jokes' supporter.
Wow. You people really need to learn when to take it down a notch.
[–]acolossalbear 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Rape jokes are an "obvious piece of humor". All jokes are.
That doesn't mean they're funny, or okay.
[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well this little chat has gotten old real fast. Apparently a bunch of you were damaged somehow and didn't get the right kind of therapy to heal or maybe you're all just wound up too tight and can't see the forest through the trees. Either way you're the type to continually turn this place into a three-ring-circus. I don't like SERIOUS problems when it comes to sexism and inequality but holy damn - Take a damn prozac or valium and step back for a while.
Goodbye.
[–]boydrewboy 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We don't want a bad name for this subreddit and you're the only one defending yourself. Obviously something's wrong with us, right?
[–]devotedpupa 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And you call us butthurt.
[–]MrSparkle666 60 points61 points62 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Take note, this could have easily been a text post, but the OP made it an image for no other reason than to whore karma. Also, this doesnt really belong here. It's stupid and childish and has nothing to do with Men's Rights. Please don't encourage this shit.
[–]tdltuck 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
A bit extreme, yo.
But I can understand what I think I picked up as a subtle issue that is actually real. I was dating a feminist-ish type of a girl. Super sweet, excellent heart, and really respected my views on equality. She once retrieved her N64 from her parents' home (we were in college). When she brought it home, she asked me to hook it up because she didn't know how. I responded "dude, if you can't hook this up yourself, we might have to talk about our relationship." I was joking in reference to intelligence, not gender "roles." I offered to teach her, but she responded, "no, I really do know how to hook it up, I just feel like things like that and helping with my car and stuff are things that you should do, not me." I said, "haha uh... that's a bit sexist, don't you think?" She said, "no, I just think it's sexy."
I truly find it sexy when a woman makes me a sandwich. In that light, I don't think it's unfair to ask her to make me a sandwich. Prerequisite: mutual trust and respect.
[–]curious67 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
nice girl. she still kept her sense of romanticism. I hope she makes you a sandwich in exchange.
The average feminist feels entitled to you fixing her car, but is too liberated to make your sandwich. Keep traditional gender roles where it is to her advantage, and get liberated where it is to her advantage.
[–]apaniyam 37 points38 points39 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
By your own logic, they would get annoyed because they realise they are dating someone who can't make a sandwich to their own preferences. Sandwich making isn't even on par with fixing a car because you are good with cars, sandwich making is part of being a competent adult who likes sandwiches.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]apaniyam 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Pretty much, but some people struggle with putting the ingredients they like in the ratios they like between two pieces of bread.
[–]Clever_Ploy 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I consistently overdo it with bacon.
I have yet to suffer from this.
[–]apaniyam 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Overdo... Bacon?
[–]jasonofcompsci 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
What if you tore the bacon into thin strips and weaved it like a fabric. Fried it and stuck bread between two of them.
[–]OThomson 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bacon-weave the food of Gods.
[–]discdigger 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
OR (and hear me out now)
Take 2 pieces of your new-fangled bacon-bread, and put BACON between them!
[–]jasonofcompsci 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
WHAT!! That's crazy talk. Wait, wait, wait. New idea. Take a stake, or two, and make a double decker stake burger with zero bread.
[–]_valtiel_ -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not possible. That man is clearly insane, ignore him.
[–]Nebu 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It might not be an inability to make sandwich so much as a "We're both able to do general tasks, but I have 'specialist skills' as a car mechanic, so you, who do not have any specialists skills at all, should do a large proportion of the generalist-tasks to compensate for the specialists skills which are not evenly divided (because I am the only one capable of doing them), such that we end up with an equal division of labor."
[–]venomous_harridan 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I have 'specialist skills' as a car mechanic, so you, who do not have any specialists skills at all should do a large proportion of the generalist-tasks to compensate
Setting aside the assumption that someone who has no specialisation in car mechanics therefore has no special skills of their own in other fields, expecting her to carry out the majority of mundane everyday tasks for you while you have to fix her car every time it breaks down (which is how often? once every couple of years maybe?) doesn't seem like a very equal division of labour.
That's why I wrote "hould do a large proportion of the generalist-tasks". She doesn't make all the sandwiches. Perhaps she does 75% of the sandwiches, and he does 25% of the sandwiches and 100% of the car repairs.
[–]Rozeline 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you're too lazy to fix a sandwich, you're definitely too lazy to fix a car or computer...
[–]Torvaldr 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
it's proven that sandwiches made by other people (i.e. girlfriends) taste better. Trust me, it's science.
[–]devotedpupa -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also fixing cars and making sandwiches have nothing to do with what is in my underwear, but sandwich jokes are the least funny of the sexist jokes and because the joke is associate to sexism, they get offended.
[–]tailcalled 32 points33 points34 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Pick your battles.
[–]ForMensRights 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I wish more of the gals would do that.
[–]johnny_gunn 25 points26 points27 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is the stupidest comparison I've ever heard.
If she asks you to fix her car it's probably because she can't do it herself. If my car broke and my girlfriend happened to know how to fix it and I didn't, you're damn right she'd fix it for me if she's at all a decent person.
You can fix a sandwich yourself, but unless your relationship with your SO is horrible I'm sure if you said "Hey, I'm really tired, could you make a sandwich for me please?" she would. And you should do the same for her, should she ask.
[+]kanuk876 -10 points-9 points-8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
sooo.. you're saying that those with greater skill are unreasonable to expect consideration in relationships with other people? What happened to "I scratch your back, you scratch mine?"
I guess you're one of those people who ask lawyers for free legal advice at cocktail parties?
[–]johnny_gunn 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"I scratch your back, you scratch mine" is precisely the attitude I'm trying to promote.
I'm saying those with the skill to do something that their SO can't should help out their SO if they're in need. My secondary point was that even if you share a skill with your SO, such as the ability to prepare a meal, making meals for each other is a nice thing to do.
[–]ForMensRights 21 points22 points23 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I can make a mean sandwich myself. I'd rather do that than cut the grass.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dunno about my sandwich-making skills, but I cook a wonderful lamb roast.
I can also mow the grass, change the oil (including replacing the filter, which results in the bike smelling of hot oil all the time due to a design issue) in my bike (haven't done the car yet, it's still under warranty), build & fix issues with my computer (Dip IT, Sys Admin), trim the hedge with the electric trimmer...
My parents taught me well - mum gave me the enjoyment of cooking, dad the rest of it.
[–]Rockytriton 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My wife cuts the grass about 90% of the time, which is awesome, because I hate doing it and had an hour+ commute every day while she stays at home with the kids.
I'll trade with you in a second. Mowing a cool design into my lawn is therea-fuckin'-peutic
[–]DeliciousDave 47 points48 points49 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
This is actually sexism (in both directions). Do not, I repeat, Do not assign roles to the genders, this hurts our cause. People should be judged as individuals not as members of either sex (or any other group).
[–]captainpacifist 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Took the words out of my mouth.
[–]jasonofcompsci -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well I do. That's not sexism it's reality. Sexism is assuming one deserves rights or entitlements over another. Here's an awesome lecture on autism (interesting on it's own merits). This view that there are no differences and requiring scientists to be apologetic when stating valuable research is inhibiting progress. Just like feminists that have gone passed the mark and started to create problems it is possible to over generalize the definition of sexism. What we need is equality not complete denial of differences. That's just lying to yourself.
[–]guizzy 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not assigning roles is not the same as ignoring differences between the sexes. There are awesome male nurses, and women mechanics. No one should be pigeonholed in a job or role on the statistical likelihood they would be good at it due to their gender.
Moreover, arguing in favor of gendered roles in society is giving feminists the biggest weapon they could want in their fight against fatherhood.
[+]zaferk -10 points-9 points-8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
. No one should be pigeonholed in a job or role on the statistical likelihood they would be good at it due to their gender.
That did not even happen in the "oppressive, sexist" past either.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]knowless 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
why doesn't everyone just make fucking sandwiches? I don't get it.
how is making a sandwich such a huge imposition? it takes like, a couple minutes.
[–]Ragark 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
People like that whole domination thing.
[–]knowless -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Totally, I would love to meet a woman who would cook for me instead of the other way around.
[–]OThomson 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I still ain't fixing your computer.
[–]memymineown 16 points17 points18 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I make better sandwiches than every single one of the girlfriends that I have had(and I am a better cook than all but one).
And the one who was a better cook than me also fixed my computer.
[–]ZombieBroad 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We get bent out of shape because just because we're girls doesn't mean we can all make sandwiches. I don't ask every single guy I know to fix something for me, I ask my fiance to fix my computer because he's good at it and he doesn't ask me to cook because I'll more than likely burn the damn place down.
[–]caaaaat 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I always thought the issue was in the demand, not the request. I would never demand anyone do or make anything for me. I think anyone would take issue with being told what to do all the time; it's dehumanizing.
[–]blueberrywalrus 18 points19 points20 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This bigoted stereotyped statement makes me ashamed of r/MensRights.
[–]RobotBuddha 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
At the same time though, I'm pretty impressed by the responses here. Despite the 60% upvote ratio it seems like people who actually post are almost uniform in speaking out against the sexist nature of it. I think that's impressive. I wouldn't expect that kind of reaction within most general subreddits, and I think in general it speaks well to the people within it. Even more so for the fact that the replies seem to be from the heart.
[–]devotedpupa 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And watch the downvotes in comments. Subtly sexist guy? Negative. Obsessed with the evils of feminism? Negative. Criticizing gender roles? Positive. Gives you hope in this place.
[–]kanuk876 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most people read the OP and see sexism.
I see an absurdity clearly demonstrating double-standards, lack of respect in certain matters, and people taking others for granted.
All are topics we regularly discuss here.
[–]Rockytriton 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
my wife never refuses to make me a sandwich, she does it out of love, just like a spent all freakin day and night on xmas eve getting some stupid virus off of her laptop, I did it out of love, not because I'm expected to. Also, any douche bag who expects women to make him a sandwich should expect to end up making his own sandwich.
[–]solinv 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm a better cook than any girl I've ever dated. Let me make my own fucking sandwich.
[–]aetheralloy 24 points25 points26 points 14 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
There are two kinds of actual women who refuse to make sandwhiches:
Women who are just too damn lazy to and justify it with grrrrl power.
Women who are out fixing your car. You should fix them a sandwhich.
[–][deleted] 26 points27 points28 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Or just women who would just rather not make you a sandwhich. Sorry if I'm being pedantic, I really can't tell if my Poe finder is off.
[–]LWRellim 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
These are so rare they are mythical.
[–]eulerup 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Ugh, fixing cars is a skill that I would love to have. Must obtain house and garage and car-fixing skills. [f]
[+]kanuk876 -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
It helps if you're interested in house and garage and car-fixing. If you were interested, you would already have said skills. There is nobody stopping you from typing "car repair" into google.
People often misunderstand the difference between ability and inclination.
Inclination = motivation to learn + develop hard-won skills.
[–]discdigger 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I have the inclination, but I don't have a driveway or a garage. I am not about to change my brake pads while parallel parked on the street.
[–]eulerup 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This!
[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why not? A few weeks ago I changed my friend's brake pads in the parking lot of our work over lunch.
[–]kanuk876 -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're making excuses. Life happens by doing it.
Think about what you really enjoy doing -- passionately. It may be making cupcakes, reconciling balance sheets, or yacking with friends. The point is, you just did it. Lots. And over time you became good at it.
The important step is: just do it.
People who are motivated just do it. Because they derive pleasure from doing it.
If you were discouraged by someone in your past, you must understand they did you harm. But this is a separate issue.
[–]LWRellim 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Yet inclination itself has prerequisites. To have the inclination, and be able of really gaining any mastery is not just a matter of desire, any more than ability can be gained via mere training; one must also have the capability, that is the underlying thinking processes such as spacial visualization, time-motion conceptualization, mental "mapping", and logical/analytical reasoning.
While certainly not exclusive (nor automatic), in the aggregate there is generally a distinct gender difference in these, with males typically having a higher natural disposition towards them.
This of course, also has its downsides, as Autism Spectrum disorders (especially Asperger Syndrome) are also more prevalent in males than in females.
[–]jasonofcompsci -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Oddly it seems you have mixed up ability and inclination. She stated that she had an inclination and not skills. What she said was pretty clear, short and sweet. You on the other hand ramble and contradict yourself.
[–]LWRellim 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
She stated that she had an inclination and not skills.
No she stated a desire, which could have many motivating factors, most of which do not qualify as an "inclination."
[–]jasonofcompsci -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
She stated neither and we are both inferring. Inclination and desire are synonyms. Disagree, take it up with a thesaurus. The differences in their strict definition is such that we could properly infer both desire and inclination accurately. I honestly find the most retarded people in men's rights. Great idea and one I believe in but the people here are the worst. Your not helping your cause with your false intellectualism. I bid you ado.
[–]LWRellim 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sorry, but synonym simply designates "closely associated words" -- not that they have identical meanings.
[–]kanuk876 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
if she was inclined, she'd already have the skills. Few people are sufficiently obtuse such that basic maintenance of house/car are beyond them.
Nice try though.
[–]jasonofcompsci 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They could be sufficiently without a car.
[–]kanuk876 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You can buy a car for the price the OP is probably paying for TV.
You're really stretching here.
[+]AlyoshaV -9 points-8 points-7 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
actual women
what
[–]aetheralloy 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
As opposed to the purely theoretical ones some people try to claim they are - the ones in a perfectly balanced perfectly equal perfectly happy relationship where both contribute in perfectly even amounts and there's no gendering and their shit smells like chanel #5.
[–]zaferk -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
pic related: http://i.imgur.com/0a24O.jpg
[–]devotedpupa 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Another thing MRM doesn't need? Insulting opposite views with the word "mangina" or faggotry.
[+]Sarstan -19 points-18 points-17 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
As someone who won't let anyone else get under the hood of my cars, much less a woman, I'd have to insist that there's no reason for the latter.
Also no reason for the latter? That woman part in you sentence.
[–]Rozeline 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This image is pretty much the opposite of what r/mensrights is about. It's immature, rude, and based on harmful stereotypes. This is pretty much exactly what radical feminists think this place is. It hurts the entire community to be represented this way.
[–]cainmadness 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
The problem I have with your little message, is that it affixes gender roles. Maybe if you didn't treat them like barefoot, pregnant 'bitches' to stay in the kitchen, then just maybe.. JUUUUST maybe, they might be willing to do things for you without bitching.
You know, the whole treat them equal thing? That doesn't include treat them like a house possession.
[+]Sarstan 14 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
And the problem with your comment is what's wrong with gender roles? My wife and I fill our gender roles quite well and it's about as harmonious as it can get between us.
[–]DeliciousDave 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You and or wife fill your individual roles within your relationship. We are trying to fight sexism here, please do not assign people into categories.
[–]Sarstan -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm not so sure fighting "sexism" is such a good thing. I see an awful lot of people pushing girls to seek out interests and hobbies that are popular with boys (and then jobs and careers that are popular with men) and the same for boys. It seems to cause a lot of confusion and even in this age where we're soaked in fighting gender roles, they still come out VERY clearly. Girls toys are still dolls, toy kitchens, and colored pink. Boys still play with cars, toy guns, and love blue. Is that so wrong?
I don't view gender roles as who's better or worse. It's essentially a separate, but equal concept. After all, if you have specific gender roles, you focus on those skills, ideas, and abilities. If you go for what I've seen other view as equal, you now have to learn the skills of the other gender to do the same amount as they do of everything. That seems wasteful, confusing, and causes undue stress in my view.
[–]acolossalbear 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not so sure fighting "sexism" is such a good thing.
...Aaaand this is why you don't belong here.
[–]Sarstan 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I figured as much. /r/MensRights isn't exactly sticking to the main issues like it originally did anymore.
[–]devotedpupa 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You wife and you can fill the family roles you assign to yourselves all you like, but generalize it.
[–]apaniyam 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
One observation doesn't make a rule.
[–]hardwarequestions 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It does if that rule is "gender roles don't work".
But really, I like it because it shatters the other users ASSUMPTION.
[–]apaniyam 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I never saw "gender roles don't work" I saw "you should treat genders as equal" Either side of the coin, it's two people who are in a relationship and if something works for both of them, and both are happy, there's no need to question it. You cannot reasonably argue that because it works for one couple, the option of treating everyone as equal is is some way flawed. Yes, it works for them, no it does not mean enforcing gender roles is fine, because they are not everyone.
[–]hardwarequestions 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
fair enough. i saw "gender roles don't work".
[–]Sarstan -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's true. On the other hand I've known a lot of people that play the "equality" card in the relationship and it turns to shit pretty fast. I have no proof to back any of this up (other than personal observation), but I'll be more than happy to call it a theory and go from there.
[–]blueberrywalrus 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Clearly,..
By that logic blacks should be slaves to whites. Because, at a particular and obviously the most significant point in time, the most important society decided the role of a black man was to be subservient to a white man.
That's quite a slap in the face to history. You do realize blacks were far from the first to be slaves, right? Historically speaking, slaves are generally a conquered people. Making the distinction of whites and blacks in this case is just being racist about the issue.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]My_Name_is_BLAZE 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's true. From a biological standpoint, gender roles are a necessity in order for life to stay exist as life. However, I believe he's talking about gender roles human beings and society have imposed on each sex.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with asking a guy to make you a sandwich and asking a girl to help you fix your car. I just think the problem is that we have setup stereotypes for the other gender and the average person isn't questioning its meaning.
[–]damn_it_so_much 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To be fair, the sandwich meme was originally invented to be humorously misogynist (it's a 4chan thing...)
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've seen this image before, and I'm pretty sure it's actually supposed to be satire.
[–]lalicat 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
my wife makes the best sandwiches, and i ask her to make me sandwiches all the time, and she never gets bent out of shape about it, if i ever dated a female that would throw a fit over a small favor like that i would have ditched the bitch ... still mens rights isnt about hating females, its about equality, this isnt feminism, we are not trying to make ourselves "more equal" than women, we are just asserting ourselves in a society that went wayyyyy to far in empowering the "fairer" sex
[–]Leprecon 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because "go get me a sandwich" jokes are rarely between two people in a mutually respectful and loving relationship. When my gf tells me to fix her phone or fix her computer I will. If I ask her if she can cook while I am doing that she will too. It's called division of labor and it doesn't have to be the guy that does the technical stuff and the woman who does the household stuff. Anything to do with cars is automatically her domain for instance.
[–]glassgurl 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Shit, where I come from, Please and Thank you go a long way.
It's not about asking for sandwiches, it's about making stupid sandwich jokes, just like stupid car jokes aren't funny. Or they wouldn't be if people made them.
At least, I've never had a girl flip out simply over being benignly asked to make a sandwich. That's crazy talk.
What kind of shit person (regardless of gender) just says "Fix my car" or "Make me a sandwich"?
Do people not say 'please' anymore?
[–]Bear4188 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Both of you can make a sandwich. That's why it's stupid to demand someone do it for you.
If you were asking her to do something you don't know how to do it would be completely different.
[–]brennanww 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
D D D DOWNVOTE
[–]moomtoom 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
this is sexist and naive
[–]TheComebackKid 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is really stupid and irrelevant to the issue of sexism. This picture is implying that because I have a penis, I'm an expert on auto repair and other stereotypically masculine activities. And I don't know about you, but I won't trust someone to make me a sandwich just because they have a vagina. I don't know shit about cars, but I'm very good at making a sandwich. This subreddit is about promoting equality for everyone, not to have a pissing match about who is more oppressed.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"if you make me a nice sandwich I'll owe you one at a later date"
/thread
[–]skooma714 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't need someone else to make sandviches.
[–]Cartesian_Duelist 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What in the fucking fuck? Whoever wrote this is a fucking moron. I can't reconcile how stupid you'd have to be to not understand that people use the "Make me a sammich thing" to play on old-timey sexist tropes of being in the kitchen. Funny or not, at least get some perspective on the issue.
Furthermore, if you're actually around people who "tell" you to do them favours, hang around less shitty people, and be less shitty yourself.
This post was about to make me unsubscribe from /r/MensRights until I read the comments.
[+]AntiFeministMedia -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Since feminism got involved, everything became a business transaction (not that it wasnt to begin with). Look at that disgusting word 'partner' a lot of them use. "me and my partner". How romantic...
Pay her £2 for a sandwich, make her pay £150 to fix her car.
What? you want me to run into that burning building and save your child? putting my own life at risk?
That'll be £3,000 pounds.
[+]AntiFeministMedia -16 points-15 points-14 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Oh look I've been down-voted...
[–]captainpacifist 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
As an Queer-identified man, I would be lost without the term "partner." I find comfort in its refusal to identify the gender of my loved one. "Husband" and "wife" can carry just as much societal stereotypes as "gay" and "straight." "Partner" is new enough and objective enough to not force me or my loved one into any stereotypes, and I find it no less romantic than any gendered term. Ultimately I think it's a great term to use when asking someone else about their relationship status; you avoid making any assumptions about sexual orientation.
[–]awh 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This isn't a troll (honest) but do you think that nobody knows the sex of your partner when you make some awkward-sounding sentence which avoids pronouns? "My partner and I went to the restaurant. I had the fish and my partner had the steak. Then my partner got sick and I had to take my partner home."
[–]captainpacifist 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Honest question. It's not awkward to me because I live it everyday. And I've used "partner" to refer to both men and women who I've dated.
[–]levelate 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i'm straight, and i always refer to my SO as my partner.
edit: not having a go, i'm just saying that some people use these terms, straight or gay.
[–]Demonicsin 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Perhaps adding the word please.
[–]truthjusticeca -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
LOL, I can't find any women to fix my car or mow my lawn. Sandwiches are easy, I'll do that myself.
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You could not possibly be more wrong.
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[+]Sarstan [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
And the problem with your comment is what's wrong with gender roles? My wife and I fill our gender roles quite well and it's about as harmonious as it can get between us.
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