Women, is the whole "women love dominant alpha males" thing a myth?

softnmushy · 2021-12-14T07:58:19+00:00

I'm a man who dated many, many women before I got married. So I can speak with some experience.

In my experience, younger people (both men and women) tend to be attracted to outspoken, extroverted people. When people are young (like around college age), they are really drawn to strong personalities.

As folks get more mature, they start to become more sure of themselves and more confident in what kind of people they like. Certainly, a lot of older women find themselves more attracted to shy and reserved (but still confident) men. Different people have different tastes.

That said, if you are trying to be attractive to the broadest number of women, being confident, assertive, decisive, and socially skilled are all viewed as attractive qualities, as long as you can also be tactful and know when to be humble.

Generally, most confident men will also find all of those traits to be attractive in women. While many men don't like confident and assertive women, it is usually a reflection of their own insecurity, which is itself an unattractive trait.

Fraidy-Dog · 2021-12-14T08:01:35+00:00

I think a lot of women like confidence and assertiveness, those tend to be fairly popular qualities in men, and even in wen too. But you can have those qualities without being RP. A lot of RP tactics are borderline abusive. The RP view of women is reductive and dehumanizing. The part of RP that encourages personal growth and confidence, though, has a point.

Also, women aren't monolithic. Some like guys who are less dominant and assertive, some like sweet and sensitive or quiet and contemplative. Some women might place higher value on traits besides dominant vs submissive, like they care most about empathy or intelligence. A guy who monopolizes and controls an interaction can be just as unappealing as a guy who's too insecure.

The thing with RP success is, a lot of women have been socialized to be people-pleasers or they're afraid to say no. Sometimes women will seemingly "fall" for a guy that's too dominant and pushy bc they feel like they can't say no when they actually want to.

Amazing_Wolverine_37 · 2021-12-14T03:40:12+00:00

Yes I am attracted to confident, assertive, decisive, and socially dominant men. Confident in their abilities and disposition. Assertive as in not taking shit. Decisive as in has his own goals and doesn't waffle between identities constantly. Socially dominant in has people who can depend on him and he and everyone knows it. I would say that RP tells men to be more sociopathic as defense to insecurity, aggressive in general, narrow minded and apt to bully others. That is not attractive.

ribbons_in_my_hair · 2021-12-14T13:03:35+00:00

Hi, woman here.

When I was younger it was the opposite. Angry, shy, messed up/fuck up/misfit boys all the way.

Because of my background (shy girl from a broken home thanks to mom’s addiction and jail time etc living in a weirdly rich neighborhood and being the total misfits in the place….but weirdly enough I was a cute redhead, I took care of my body and honestly hoped that I’d meet some guy who understood me and we could flee together, I just wanted out), I was more attracted to people who I felt understood me. Any guy that had a similar background. I remember that being hugely important. And it absolutely didn’t matter if he was popular or cool or confident. I just cared that we understood each other.

Now as an adult I admit that I want to make a family and I never ever cared for that before. So now I’m pretty focused on finding a guy who is just a solid dude. The shy boys from fucked up homes that I loved as a young girl? Who were comfortable in their discomfort? Who didn’t want to grow or change? Our relationships were always pretty unhealthy because we were unhealthy and I liked them because I was messed up and they were messed up and we could be messed up together and…….that just lead to a huge pile of messed up! I think this is why some women end up with the “tough” guy or the “artist” etc. Because we think they understand our messed up selves or maybe we can save each other etc. Or, I would think, “hey who is that angry quiet guy in the corner, I wonder if he is hurting, I’m hurting too, maybe we can help each other.” But it never ended well. So codependent. Two unhealthy people just make more unhealthiness. But I didn’t realize it then and at least that’s why I liked those guys.

Now? I did yeeeeears of therapy and work to be un-messed up. And I absolutely do not want to drown in the messed up-ness of anyone else. I want to make a safe home for a family, one I didn’t have as a kid. Is it great if we share some hardships in our past? Absolutely. But I’m looking for a man that has overcome it, similarly to me, who demonstrated some growth. Who is emotionally stable and can take care of himself and also a family. As I will. An equal in strength and perseverance. I grew to be more confident in myself after this work and perhaps there’s some unclear assumption that more outwardly confident men have done such internal work too. So maybe there is some kind of draw to men who seem to just be freaking happy and comfortable with themselves. Finally. Like I’m finally starting to be. And now, we can be even stronger and healthier together and make strong healthy, emotionally stable kids.

I cannot speak for every woman. But I’ve been drawn to two different kinds of guys for different reasons. In my 30s now, I admit, I am more interested in seemingly confident men than I was before, because I am somewhat more confident too and I want to find a happy nice strong stable human. I hope this makes sense.

EntertainmentNeat592 · 2021-12-14T04:27:09+00:00

How do you know PUA men are attracting so many women? It has been proven so many time that a lot of so called success with women is outright fake and PUA community is full of deception.

Some has paid sugar babies/sex worker, some have literally drugged and raped women, some just manipulated vulnerable women. None of these things I would call success. I am sure there are some legit success but that would be very compared to the amount of deception they do.

princessbubbbles · 2021-12-14T04:21:47+00:00

My husband is none of those things. He isn't wishywashy with his values, though, which might count. And I didn't chase alphas till I settled for a beta or anything. I didn't date or have sex with anyone until him. We met at age 18 at college and married at age 22, after I graduated. And he isn't like a cuck or anything. He just isn't...intense and offputting? He tends to be more shy and soft spoken.

Have you ever seen a peacock display for females in real life? They not only unfold and raise their train feathers, they also bob their wings up and down. They aggressively step forward to the female and vibrate their eye feathers. They also turn around while bobbing their wings to show off their asses: literally two floofs of down feathers with a cloaca between them. Oh ya and their loud as FUCK. They are using excessive movement and color to catch the female eye at first, then hold it with what is hopefully an impressive width of train as a sign of health, and a luscious ass as a sign of fertility. They attempt to woo females on or off breeding season. Even during breeding season, they try so darn hard so frequently that most females just straight up ignore them most of the time. The ones who like it mate with the male and hang around with him in part of a harem in an obvious fashion. The wooed girls are more easily spotted thsn the uninterested ones. That's how I see dudes who you could call alpha males. Kind of ridiculous and not speaking my love language AT ALL. A whole lot of effort that might get some chicks, but tons more ignore. And with humans, a species that is even more social, the inefficacy of this technique in a broader sense is more obvious, at least to me.

Sorry if that was a bit convoluted. I freaking love birds and my brain is chock full of bird analogies lol

kateunderice · 2021-12-14T06:12:23+00:00

“Pickup artists” know how to attract insecure, traumatized girls; often those who have been abused before, and as a result are more susceptible to negging, power plays, etc.

The whole “alpha male” thing is just another tactic targeting insecure women. Basically, pickup artists aren’t lions, they aren’t dominant alpha males—they’re hyenas, only preying on the weak and sick.

If you’re looking for a functional relationship for intimacy and companionship, pickup artist tactics will prevent that 100% of the time. Mature people will see right through you and not give you the time of day.

You’re most likely to rely on those tactics if you feel you have nothing to offer women as your genuine self. That’s where you need to do some maturing. Everybody has something to offer that someone else will eventually take them up on. It depends on individual personalities, tastes, experiences, values, etc. Focus less on being great for all women (an impossible task. There are no Chads!) and more on finding a woman great for you, and vice versa.

You don’t need to be perfect; just real, human, and a decent companion. And patient.

Tl;dr Women are attracted to men who, step one, are self-confident enough to be genuine with them. After that, it depends on the individual people involved.

Edits to add a bit before the tldr

PrincessTiaraLove · 2021-12-14T06:44:36+00:00

I think my attraction fluctuates. I don't want a man to be too extreme on either end of the spectrum. I want a man to be himself. I do like a dominant man, but these men interchange dominance with abuse.

mammajess · 2021-12-14T09:57:59+00:00

I like shy men. I always have. I am a rather forward woman, outgoing when I feel connected to someone. I don't like being the passive partner, I like to court the other person instead of being courted. Like I like them to do nice things for me too of course, but I don't have rules around the man paying for dates or him having to call first or whatever. I think people should just be natural and do whatever makes sense between them as people, like I make decent money and I've often made more than my partner so why should they pay for everything??? That's nuts, right? I actually feel really bad having to be the passive partner and wait around for another person to make all the moves. It's just not for me, I'm too straightforward to play feminine games although I am very feminine in other respects like appearance and being nurturing and supportive (I'm not aggressive or particularly tomboyish I guess I am saying).

It took me a while to understand this about myself because there is pressure in my experience to like a particular kind of person, I think men have the same pressure. When I was quite young my female friends would sometimes try to lecture me and make me feel weird about myself and that stopped me from really understanding myself and made me feel perverse. Like I felt some shame and I feel like girls like me are portrayed as being desperate or lesser than because a desirable woman just waits by the phone and turns men down for no fucking reason. But I just know who I like and I want to have a say in how things go in an honest way with direct communication. Really the shy, bashful guys I like need me to be direct or they would not know if I liked them or what I wanted. This fake shit is insane to me, I do not understand it at all.

My husband is a short Korean man (I'm white Australian if that is relavant) who is very quiet and introverted but he is also very stoic a lot of the time, sometimes he is like an old fashioned grumpy grandpa, and sometimes he is like a giggling little boy making absurd jokes about dicks. People who don't know him well only see a very quiet and gentle person, but that isn't all of what he is of course. He's actually in my opinion the most masculine person I have ever met but none of it is posturing. He does whatever he likes to do without worrying about gender role crap too much. My ex was a big tall English man who acted very confident and outgoing but he was horribly insecure about his masculinity and it caused all kinds of overcompensation and abusive behavior.

About PUA a lot of it is just fake. They pay actors and models and they lie about their supposed success. People can say whatever they want online, how do you know they actually do sleep with X number of girls or that girls like them? Hell, I've seen TIM POOL tell people he got lots of women "when he was younger". I've seen those middle aged fat and ugly redpill guys yell about how they fuck 20 year olds lol. Social media is generally just full of shit to make you feel like you are missing something so you either keep watching and give ad revenue or buy products.

rachulll · 2021-12-14T03:42:54+00:00

Yes it’s a myth. You’re absolutely correct in thinking we all have varied preferences - for example the “dominant alpha male” could not be more repulsive to me

lavicat1 · 2021-12-14T04:37:09+00:00

This is a complete myth. They can be nerdy, or on the shyer side, I do not really care. I just want them to act like an adult, be socially competent, and comfortable in their own skin. Big alpha male chad energy repulses me. While women have diverse and individual preferences, I have rarely found women who wanted “alpha males.” Plus, what many men on here consider to be alpha energy are just a coverup for abusive behavior.

This is also why men like Harry Styles and Timothee Chalamet are so popular.

pekkauser · 2021-12-14T14:53:21+00:00

I’m not a woman but like I’ve literally never seen a woman say she wanted a “alpha male” type. Most of them just preferred dudes who were chill

Xx_SwordWords_xX · 2021-12-14T03:58:48+00:00

We want men, not boys. Just have your shit together like a grown human, and you'll attract someone of equivalent worth (in all areas). If you are not willing to accept what you attract, then you need to become the equivalent of what you wish to attract. No one wants any other person, who isn't at their level.

HGW86 · 2021-12-14T07:15:58+00:00

I think the women that PUA's attract are the models they hired to pose with them to make it look like their bullshit works. All marketing, no substance!

myopicdreams · 2021-12-14T19:18:21+00:00

Confidence is attractive but "dominance" disgusts me. I am completely turned off by any man who attempts to display dominance over me or any other person because I believe it is driven by insecurity. The only person any man needs to show dominance over, IMO, is himself and he displays that through his discipline, responsibility, and self-control. Attempts to show it by use of others only tells me that they have not yet learned to practice self-leadership. I neither desire nor would accept a man attempting to "lead" me. I am perfectly capable of leading myself and will only accept an equal partner.

Environmental-Row979 · 2021-12-14T06:06:14+00:00

First, there is no such thing as an alpha male whether among humans or wolves. The scientist who authored the original study on wolves (which creepy dudes who go on and on about alphas and betas love to reference) long ago retracted his paper because he realized it was flawed( here’s why ).

Anecdotally, I’ve never met a single person who subscribed to the “women love dominant alpha males” who wasn’t a complete train wreck. Honestly, man who refers to himself as an alpha is like a giant walking red flag for so many reasons.

Personally, I am attracted to people who are empathetic, thoughtful about how they communicate, and passionate about their interests. I feel safe and loved when someone treats me with tenderness and allows themselves to be vulnerable with me in return. I am turned off when someone sees themselves (or me) as having a prescribed role in our relationship.

vptran31 · 2021-12-14T14:40:48+00:00

My girl likes that im smart and driven

ursonarcy · 2021-12-14T15:26:03+00:00

Confidence and dominance are classically masculine characteristics, the redpill takes them to the extreme though, to the point its actually toxic and counter productive.

forename_surename · 2021-12-14T18:17:18+00:00

Yes, I am attracted to such men, but not BECAUSE of these traits. I will like these traits in them if I like their character / them as a person.

I can be just as attracted to a timid, shy and sweet guy, I actually like these traits a lot. Still, in the end it's the quality personality I'm attracted to, the other more "superficial" traits (like behaving assertive or timid) I will start to appreciate after I fall for the guy as a person.

My boyfriend has many traditionally masculine traits but is also shy / sensitive and never rejects his more traditionally feminine qualities... which I, to be frank, absolutely ADORE in him (it's SUPER hot).

xvszero · 2021-12-14T18:26:20+00:00

appear to attract so many women

Appear being the key word. They're not going to show all of their failures.

and are (seemingly) successful in dating?

By what definition? None of them seem to have any idea how to hold onto a serious, longterm relationship. Which is ultimately what most of us want.

I wouldsay most people find some level of confidence appealing though, but that's not exactly "alpha male" stuff, anyone can work on their confidence.

Inareskai · 2021-12-14T08:45:38+00:00

Yeah it's a myth.

At least, it's a myth that All women want that. Clearly there are some here who do like some of those traits - although not to assholeish extremes.

And there are other women, even just in this comment section who don't want that.

You're right that it's more complex and varied than that.

For your last point, I think you're assuming pick up artists have more sex than they do, and then following from that it is the case that most pick up artists use manipulation tactics and aren't really more or less attractive than other people (apart from the use of manipulation tactics, that's very unattractive when you know it's happening).

No-Border680 · 2021-12-14T08:53:36+00:00

The thing that troubles me, is, how is it that these pick up artists who work to develop these traits appear to attract so many women and are (seemingly) successful in dating? Is it that they simply manipulate women into sleeping with them and they really aren't more attractive then the next guy? It makes sense that different people are attracted to different things, but I don't understand how pickup artists seem to have sex so often. I'd really like to see what you guys think about this.

If you go out regularly, approach a lot of women and focus on becoming more social at the same time, you will have ore chances of getting a yes.

2021-12-14T13:04:54+00:00

Yes lol

Troklokhan · 2021-12-14T16:18:47+00:00

When they say "confident" they bassically mean someone who can look into their eyes and talk to them without stuttering, and can express his ideas with fair confidence. They don't mean an overconfident asshole like the red pill wants to make it seem. Same with "socially dominant", they actually just want a guy who is fairly social and not a total weirdo, you don't need to be a rockstar. Same with all the other items. Any person can be those things.

Be confortable in your own skin, and be confident in your actions and presentation without overcompensating.

The thing that troubles me, is, how is it that these pick up artists who work to develop these traits appear to attract so many women and are (seemingly) successful in dating?

I was friend with a PUA coach from my city. He was one of the "top" guys in the PUA community in the whole country and traveled through all South America coaching on PUA techniques. This guy would sleep with around 30 girls a year. Seems good, right? well, the reallity is that the guy used to go out 5 nights a week and approach 30 women a night, at the end of the night he would end up with around 5 phone numbers, and if lucky would go home with a girl. Most of the number would not turn into dates, probabbly only 1 out of 5, and most of those dates would not end up with sex. So, think about how much time and effort this guy used to spend. He made it a full time job. Is all that effort worth just for having sex with 30 women a day? it's a failed business model by any sensible criteria. I also saw the girl pulling horrendous girls he didn't even like, because he got validation from sex, even if he didn't like the girl. He eventually quitted the PUA stuff, because he realised he was acting like a complete idiot.

However, this guy told me something interesting. He said: "You only have to be 10% more confident and more fun than the next guy". That's all. You don't have to be an unemotional super dominant narcisstic psychopath like the redpill wants you to believe. Only 10% more confident and more fun than the next guy. That's enough.

Btw, you should read "Models" by Mark Manson. It's way better than the PUA bullshit and it addresses this exact same topic.

Bosbesjes · 2021-12-14T19:19:24+00:00

orangoutangou · 2021-12-16T15:51:47+00:00

Let's take a step back here... what do straight men want in women? What do women want in women? What do men want in men? Confidence is attractive regardless of sex, gender, or sexuality. Same goes for assertiveness. Ever been on a date with a girl who couldn't make her mind up about anything? How attractive was that.... zero. Same goes for social dominance. Of course a girl who can lead a conversation is gonna be more attractive than a girl who has no opinions and sits there starring blankly. Is it really that weird that straight girls find that attractive in men? No. But these qualities alone are useless... The qualities that neighbour around them determine their attractiveness. Same goes for ladies who like ladies, guys who like guys, etc.

What the RP teaches is a straw man of dominance, assertiveness, etc, and omits the neighbouring qualities that make dominance and the like useful/desireable.

Very briefly... The RP mistakes dominance for 'crushing everything.' That isn't dominance unless you're Stalin. Read Marcus Aurelius' 'Meditations' if you want a good idea about dominance. The RP mistakes decisiveness for impulsiveness (considering the high number of psychopaths in the RP that is an understandable mistake, because a psychopath doesn't know how to tell the difference between the two). The RP mistakes assertiveness for being compassionless. Look at how much the RP focusses on 'observing' behaviour instead of 'looking at things from the other's perspective.' When you have no cognitive empathy, ALL you can do is make inferences about behaviour. Because you fundamentally lack one of the key qualities that makes a human being human.

Here's the krux... if you're a psychopath, then assertiveness and being compassionless ARE the same thing. There's no nuance. Part of being assertive absolutely necessitates compassion and understanding. If you don't have compassion then your assertiveness will just be that of an elephant in a China shop. Anyone with a vaguely neuro-typical brain gets this. But the RP isn't remotely neuro-typical. It's the ideology of the dark triad, minus the self-awareness that even the most corrupt of Machiavellians possesses.

Zerofication · 2021-12-19T20:46:46+00:00

The problem with asking women is that you're assuming what they share with you corresponds to reality, which is rarely the case. Women are naturally oblivious to the discrepancy between what they say and what they do.

luridlurker · 2021-12-14T05:00:44+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DiabloTheDreamer · 2021-12-15T16:47:49+00:00

Bro wtf is this shit dominant alpha bullshit? You say about the approach game? i've approached 1388 women and none said yes.

LadyKitana · 2021-12-17T16:57:34+00:00

I will just repeat what most people have said, most women want a man who is confident in himself, but for me that don’t mean loud and arrogant. Sometimes the most confident is the quietest man in the room, his presence. Kind with a good sense of humour !

Omg saw a video of a show, I believe called love don’t judge. Dude on there called himself an” alpha” male and his wife allows him to sleep with other women because that’s what “ alpha” men do. When asked what she thought about it she couldn’t respond, she is a housewife and he picks out her clothes. She said she enjoys it but you can tell her body language she is not ok. The guy is a straight up asshole !! I would have no problem letting him know my opinion.

https://youtu.be/B5vVH1RLjbE … see for yourself

2021-12-31T23:04:44+00:00

I think many do. Why is it that every male sex symbol is an alpha male? Why is every man in erotic stories aimed at straight women an alpha male? Why is 50 Shades and Outlander popular?

False-Age9273 · 2022-02-11T08:15:48+00:00

After you get married and you see your wife sleeping with a lot of guys, that myth becomes yours.

JUST_WANTTOBEHAPPY · 2021-12-14T05:16:41+00:00

Just addressing your last paragraph, a lot of the technique do work. The whole foundation is built on seducing woman who, in their term, higher calibre than you a.k.a out your league.

Pua get a lot of hate due to some of their misogynistic philosophy but in early days is all about flirting and reading woman cues. Early days PUA community always have this concept "Leave them better when you found them". It's all about fun, the understanding of "it takes two to tango".

But I'm not defending some the misogynistic teaching, as it should be criticised. Just my ramble

Title	Women, is the whole "women love dominant alpha males" thing a myth?
Author	Ridiculous_Cheese19
Upvotes	39
Comments	134
Date	December 14, 2021 3:18 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/rfxu6x/women_is_the_whole_women_love_dominant_alpha/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/women-is-the-whole-women-love-dominant-alpha-males.1092559 https://theredarchive.com/post/1092559

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