"Rape is rape - it's simple you idiot".

John_Savage69 · 2022-06-13T16:00:19+00:00

I am going to be a voice of dissent here. There is a distinct difference between forcible rape of a stranger and waking your partner up with sexual overtures. Failing to make the distinction leads to absurdities, like a person in a relationship being deemed to have "sexually assaulted" their partner for a random slap on the ass or genital grab--neither of which are preceded by an overt request for consent--that would defeat the point. Now, if the partner says to stop it or they don't like it, then that again is different. But actual people in actual relationships do not operate under formalistic legal structures of requesting and obtaining verbal consent before each sexual encounter.

beleidigtewurst · 2022-06-13T15:44:10+00:00

Actually, in Sweden one young female individual dib blowjob to a guy and... well, she got convicted. What I could find on google is... a different story actually:

Woman who performed sex act on sleeping man jailed for three and a half years

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/oral-sex-on-sleeping-man-24173223

So while I agree with the thought that there is gender bias applied, at least such "other cases" do exist.

63daddy · 2022-06-13T14:51:55+00:00

When people think of rape, they think of a woman being forcibly raped by a stranger against her will, and that is fairly straight forward, but this only accounts for a very small fraction of rape claims.

Having worked in higher education I’ve seen and read about a lot of sexual assault allegations. In the vast majority of these cases, the sex was consensual, the issue is a claim the consent wasn’t valid, often due to drinking but sometimes simply because the woman claims she wasn’t empowered to say no. We’ve gone from “no means no” to “yes might retroactively mean no at some later point in time”. Often charges arise from peer pressure or a title ix officer pushing a student to file charges. Sometimes claims of invalid consent arise months later when a couple has a nasty break up. In one case a college student was found guilty of sexual assault and suspended because the condom came off during the act.

These issues are not at all simple. How is a guy to know if a woman will later have regrets and claim the consent didn’t count? How can a guy know with certainty that a condom won’t come off? Add to this, definitions of rape often rely on who was penetrated and who penetrated, meaning the male is guilty by definition in cases of mutually consensual sex under the influence.

When it comes to sexual assault and harassment things get even more complicated. Bumping into someone can be sexual assault. I read an employment brochure stating that standing too close to someone, leaning over someone or even looking at someone in a way they don’t like can be considered sexual harassment.

These days, these issues are anything but straightforward and simple.

DouglasMilnes · 2022-06-13T19:58:19+00:00

Virtue signalling is more rewarding to these people than thinking about something. It's also a lot less effort for them.

Clown_Nightmare1 · 2022-06-13T22:08:00+00:00

I got banned from r/TwoxChromosomes for daring to question if a question had been asked from a male’s point of view how it would be taken. Just for asking. Mods were too cowardly to admit my question didn’t even violate their terms of service.

windowpass · 2022-06-13T17:12:33+00:00

A few years ago i dated a woman who would regularly take my dick out and play with it while i was asleep.

I knew, because i would wake up with my dick either out of my underwear, or just sitting weirdly. This never happened when i slept alone or with anyone else.

When I confronted her about it, she playfully said "no" and basically left me guessing wether she did or not.

It did kind of bug me for a moment... that lack of consent, especially because we had just been dating like a week or two. But I certainly wouldn't call that rape.

tryingimreallytrying · 2022-06-14T07:59:27+00:00

Pretty simple yes, if she is uncomfortable about it and hadn't given permission to enter into her body when she is asleep and vulnerable then yeah, you're potentially crossing a line. If she says she didn't want or allow that because she couldn't as she was asleep then it constitutes rape, regardless of relationship. Being in a sexual relationship does not entitle you to do as you please when you please. If you do it and she is ok with it then it's not rape. But also, just because she doesn't outright push you away doesn't mean she wants it, she could be in shock or scared and not know how to or if it's safe to push you away, she was alseep and has no idea of your state of mind in this moment and she has been woken up from sleeping brainwaves that are not operating on a fully conscious level resulting in her not really being sure what's happening.

Same goes if the guy is asleep and the woman is trying to have sex with him - although in a court it wouldn't be rape, it would just be sexual assault as women can't legally rape men unless it is statutory rape when age is a factor.

It's best to talk about this with your partner if you have the desire or fantasy to have sex with your them when they are asleep and unconscious. If you first have the desire when they are sleeping and you haven't yet had the conversation best wait till they wake up. If you think that because you wouldn't mind it that they therefore would also like it you're operating on a flawed logic, presumptive and prejudice. Assuming you have consent in all situations whenever you want is a dangerous attitude to have. Just because you've had sex ten times if she says no on the 11th and you go through with it anyway it's not consentual. If she doesn't say no but has a lot of excuses that's another way of her saying no and trying to feel safe about it.

Being asleep is meant to be a safe activity. My ex used to beat me up in my sleep when I couldn't defend myself.

My best friend who is make and 48 was raped in his sleep as a boy and again as a young man by a man. He said in the moment he felt like he didn't know what was happening but wasn't adverse to it, then when he was conscious and realised what had happened he realised he had been raped and wasn't able to do anything about it. It was his step dad.

happyness423 · 2022-06-13T15:26:40+00:00

The deeper issue is that the “rape is rape” cult wants to portray women as weak, vulnerable, victims who are utterly incapable of caring for themselves. Thus, men must always be the big bad perpetrator.

Think of what this does to women and to the “feminist” movement. It is predicated on women NEEDING a protector.

And that’s why I scoff at all “feminism” because it is internally self-defeating.

Victorrique · 2022-06-13T21:23:12+00:00

Implied consent is a very grey area. For example, I do not ask my girlfriend everytime before i kiss her if i can, because with her i know i have implied consent. In this case, she would have to verbally or psychically make a sign of "no" to it, and only then would i not kiss her. And the vast majority of relationships work the same way. However, sex is a very different case. Depending on who you are with, implied consent may or may not apply to sex. No person is the same when it comes to this. You need to know your partner. Anything regarding sex needs to be asked about first so you know what can just be implied or what needs to be established. When either partner breaks these rules it can very much be considered rape. Communication is of the upmost importance in any relationship, and I dont know much about the example op brought up but clearly there is not effective communication between them regardless of who is at fault.

RavenWiggles · 2022-06-13T21:25:03+00:00

The thing is unless you have talked about it with your significant other you have no way of knowing how they will take the event. Does it make it worse if it is a stranger or someone you know? That might be depending on the person and what traumas they might have in their past or just how they view the situation. Unwanted sexual actions is unwanted sexual actions. Why would you risk traumatizing someone you love when you can wait until the morning and have a conversation with them about it. Then you know and there is no risk. Your hard clit or dick can wait until the morning until you know for sure.

The husband of 10 years would be valid in feeling violated and shouldn't be made to feel it is less traumatizing then if it was a stranger that had done it. It is also possible they might not take it bad at all and might think it is no big deal. That is also a valid response.

BluEyesWhitPrivilege · 2022-06-14T14:16:50+00:00

initiating sex with her husband when he appears to be asleep.

That's not what you described in the first sentence. Fucking someone who is asleep is different than waking them up to see if they'll fuck.

I have a male friend who woke up in a hostel with a naked woman he barely knew on top of him having sex with him.

Yes, that is rape.

Lionheart27778 · 2022-06-13T14:34:17+00:00

Personally I think the above example is definitely rape, unless they had pre-agreed that this was an acceptable thing they did to each other.

There is a big difference between waking someone with a bit of foreplay...and flat out banging them when they are sleeping.

Though it is rapey regardless of gender.....I have had girls waking me though blowjobs/sex before...and that made me uncomfortable and feel violated.

I think that becouse men are (incorrectly) portrayed as more sexual/perverted than women by society....a man's consent is assumed to be "yes" by default.

I think this plays into why sexual assaults by women on men are often laughed off or ignored......most people assume that they guy was up for it ,merely on the nature of him being a man.

Oldgamer1807 · 2022-06-13T20:18:00+00:00

I think I saw this thread.

I once had a girlfriend who liked it when I woke her up by, uhm, putting it in. But we'd had this conversation before and we were on the same page beforehand, so there was never any worry.

Would I put it in the same category as a stranger crawling through your window? Of course not.

But if they hadn't discussed it beforehand, I'd say it's a little rapey. Again, not in the same universe as the above example. Not even close.

Seriously, it's not that hard to ask "Hey, how would you feel if you woke up to my..." You never know, she might like it if she knows what to expect.

Classic-Discipline-2 · 2022-06-13T15:35:54+00:00

Of course this is rape! Just because she didn’t say “no” doesn’t mean she meant “yes”. If a man or woman doesn’t say yes, and thus isn’t consenting, than it’s rape!

Edit: of course non verbal consent is a thing, in this specific example though, she did not consent, and so it is in fact rape.

atactic87 · 2022-06-13T15:10:00+00:00

Without consent it is rape. One may consider it worse from an intimate partner.

Present_Hospital_507 · 2022-06-13T20:14:21+00:00

Also, it doesn’t matter if “there are women who don’t believe it’s rape if they have sex with sleeping men.” If they had no consent, they are literally rapists. This post is disgraceful and disrespectful to the men who have suffered at the hands of their female partners.

Darthwxman · 2022-06-13T21:08:41+00:00

"I know for a fact that people do not really believe that a woman having sex with a man who is asleep (let alone their partner) is the same legal and ethical crime as someone grabbing a woman off the street and raping her"

It's not only about the crime it's the genders of the people involved. Many would say a woman grabbing a man off the street and raping him was less of a crime than a man trying to have sex with his sleeping spouse.

GroundbreakingFlow98 · 2022-06-13T17:37:08+00:00

The best way to be woken up is a BJ, don’t wake me up to ask if it’s ok first

makesime23 · 2022-06-13T18:23:19+00:00

RAPE IS NON-CONSUAL SEX

factor aggravating or degravating are consider only in court

DiversityIsDivisive · 2022-06-13T19:15:14+00:00

There's an idea in natural moral law that has something to do with the implicit agreement set up by repeated and regular consent to things. For example imagine my neighbor asks to borrow my lawn mower every week for two months. Let's say one week I am taking a nap and he wants to cut his grass but does not want to wake me. Generally it is considered ethical and acceptable for him to assume I would consent to lending him my lawnmower that week.

There are many quid pro quos, though. It also depends on the situation and relationship between the two parties.

In short: No, it's not so simple.

c4ptnh00k · 2022-06-14T00:04:48+00:00

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think some level of consent to initiate is implied in marriage/sexually active couples. However, it can be revoked without being retroactive. Couples don't consent for each act individually. Instead they consent to a sexual relationship and reserve the right to revoke at anytime.

Reminder this is just my personal opinion. No legal knowledge is implied or offered.

McFeely_Smackup · 2022-06-13T17:57:41+00:00

I feel like there's room for "implied consent" with your intimate partner.

The idea that the definition of "consent" is exactly the same for strangers and life partners is just argumentative and anti-intellectual.

That's not someone interested in anything but "Men bad! Girls good'"

LettuceBeGrateful · 2022-06-14T00:51:44+00:00

am aware that "rape" between spouses can happen.

Why the quotation marks? Spouses can rape each other.

so apparently it doesn't matter at all if they are partners

Having sex with someone who is asleep, when they didn't consent, is textbook rape. I'm not sure what nuance you're seeing here, but I am not entitled to my girlfriend's body just because we're dating.

thathighclassbitch · 2022-06-13T17:52:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

digos_ · 2022-06-14T00:12:06+00:00

Let’s just be real the only true definition feminist want for rape is based on how they feel at any given moment. They would label Aziz Ansari a rapist to the same level as Brock Turner if they could.

WorshippingLasagna · 2022-06-14T08:55:33+00:00

The concept of rape is jurisdiction specific so it can vary depending on the Country one lives in. To try to be as abstract as possible, the concept revolves around intentionally committing acts of sexual nature on a person without the consent of such person.

Consent or no consent is tricky in an ongoing relationship and in my view it depends on circumstances. To make an example, I am ok being waked up in a sexual way and I let my GF know, so when she feels like it she can get advantage of my morning glory :). However, I know that for her is different i.e. sometimes she’s up to it and sometimes she’s not, so I just wake her up with a kiss, a hug and a cup of coffee and then I see if she’s up to some morning action or she just want cuddles.

So, what if I didn’t make it clear that I’m ok? Well, in many jurisdictions consent must be explicit, so that could be seen as rape. In Italy (where I live), it would, because rape is, indeed, rape.

This said, in my view common sense always play a role and one should consider a number of things: first, in case a random woman gropes me without my consent or, like in the example above, wakes me up by doing something sexual to me, I would be super pissed, but not to the point of feeling myself violated. I can, however, understand that for another person (and for women mostly) that could be felt as a deep violation. In both cases it would be rape under the law, but I don’t think I will ever report such woman, because, as said, I would not feel violated enough to go and report. I understand, however, that if a woman wakes up with somebody’s cock inside of her, she may feel really violated. It’s just a matter of how people are made differently.

So, all in all, I stick to the old Italian rule that gioco di mano, gioco da villano, which would translate as using your hands to interact with people is rude and never had a problem in my life.

On a broader perspective I agree that there is a double standard when it comes to this, where unsolicited sexual acts on a man are treated less seriously than those committed on a woman and this is wrong. The fact that men are less inclined to feel violated in these circumstances should not lead to a different treatment under the law, but should be left to the single individual. In my example above, I would probably not report an unsolicited groping, but this does not mean that any woman can have a pass to squeeze my balls, so to speak.

Sorry for the long text and, of course, just a point of view to contribute to the discussion.

Mister_historious · 2022-06-14T09:45:41+00:00

I recall that when I was 13 I caught two female classmates peeping through a boys' restroom window, making disgusting remarks about the boys they saw. They never faced the consequences. I am sure that if I, or any other boy had done this, we would have been suspended or at least been ostracized as perverts by our fellow classmates. These girls belonged to the popular girls group for the rest of their school carreer.

0nn0 · 2022-06-14T14:25:32+00:00

I agree that rape is rape. But what constitutes rape is not fairly defined.

I think sex without consent should be seen as rape, but it should go both ways.

Unfortunately there is a strong feminist lobby for a very much lopsided definition, which is rapidly becoming codified in laws around the world.

MGTOW_and_Bitcoin · 2022-06-13T13:58:40+00:00

God is God, truth is truth, good is good, but let's not forget that we have 2,500 years of the best Minds humans have ever created who have tried to tackle these words and have utterly failed.

Is a woman FORCEFULLY taking what they want from a man, any different than a man FORCEFULLY taking from a woman what he wants? One is called rape the other one is called divorce rape.

And let's not get into the whole consent problem because legally there's absolutely no way a man can defend himself in court because there's no conceivable way of providing evidence that she consented.

Tough Economic Times are coming and we all know how women are going to approach it strategically:

mr-logician · 2022-06-13T17:44:00+00:00

Whatever happened in the second to last paragraph, that definitely is rape!

GhOsTinBOUND · 2022-06-13T20:43:54+00:00

Unless you specifically set that boundary or have the conversation about this form of sexual contact and give the clear, then it is rape. If someone is unconscious you shouldn't be touching them sexually. And as far as your comment, it was just whataboutism. To address mens rights issues, make a post about a male victim specifically. Don't go to a post about a woman's issue and force it to be about mens issues, because it isn't.

TitanicPat · 2022-06-13T15:39:46+00:00

These women didn't have to bring logic and facts to that debate, they just had to bring outrage and offense - and they knew it.

This is a protected class of people that don't have to be correct. Everyone must keep that in mind when engaging.

They want to flatten any nuance, so that when she uses the word "rape" in her historic metoo false accusation, people assume she means grabbed off the street and dragged down a dark alleyway AND NOT had consensual sex after 2 glasses of wine, which she regretted 2 weeks later.

Qwesterly · 2022-06-13T19:04:42+00:00

Enthusiastic consent is key.

If I wanted to have sex with my sub when she was asleep, I'd ask her if she was open to that ahead of time. If it's "yes!", then cool and I might do it. If she said anything else but "yes!", then cool, and I wouldn't do it.

In a respectful loving relationship, that's how it's supposed to work.

Getting into an argument over how rapey one non-consensual act is vs another is cringe.

Present_Hospital_507 · 2022-06-13T20:12:00+00:00

Yes, having sex with someone while they sleep is rape unless it has been explicitly consented to before hand. Depending on the persons sleeping patterns they may not even wake up or know they have had sex. That’s not okay. Gender doesn’t matter. If someone uses your body to their own advantage without your consent that is not fucking okay.

DoomNukemBlood3D · 2022-06-13T21:54:57+00:00

I have been woken up to a blowjob by my wife and once in a while I would tell her that I didn't feel like it. Is that rape too? Should I consider it rape? I was sleeping and I did not consent to it. I wasn't upset by it either. Was she just a lovely person who thought that blowing her husband while he is sleeping as something nice?

There has to be some sort of line. I could say that I technically was raped but should technically raped be in the same vein as rape?

If the roles were reversed, am I the rapist because I am a guy?

Honestly, I don't know what rape is anymore. I know forcing someone, lacing their drink, or not taking no for an answer is rape but there is such a gray area nowadays that it seems like if you look at someone in a funny way, it's considered rape.

-abc-123 · 2022-06-13T14:09:19+00:00

You know what I want to know? How you sleep through having sex. I would wake up the minute I was touched, forget someone on top of me doing that.

Soda_BoBomb · 2022-06-13T19:48:19+00:00

Did the poster bother to mention whether she gave consent for that or protested him doing that at any point?

If she doesn't want him to, and told him so, then yeah I'd say it's rape.

mogaman28 · 2022-06-13T21:24:36+00:00

Some years ago during the summer festival in a small town in Spain a couple of friends get veeery drunk. They managed to go to the home of one of then. The visiting friend went to sleep in a couch in the garage. He woke up to the elder sister with Down syndrome of his friend riding him. Her pleasure screams wake her father and discovered them. Result, HE was found guilty of statutory rape and went to jail.

jayval90 · 2022-06-13T23:30:33+00:00

The root problem with this kind of thing is the fact that consent is actually a shitty standard. It's not enough to merely have mutual consent for the act. Are you both prepared to deal with the consequences? Do you both understand the risks involved? Do you both know what your emotional connections are going to be with each other after this encounter? Do you consent to the shitty feeling afterwards?

There's a good reason successful cultures historically based acceptable sexual relationships around mutual life commitment, and not mere mutual consent. Consent is sticky for the reasons I outlined above, along with a myriad of others (possible STD's, failed birth control, etc). Explicit consent is also less "fun" in a lot of contexts, which results in a lot of these complicated rules of implicit consent. And then you have the problem of persuasion (is it really consent if spent too much effort persuading someone to do it?)

What you seem to be alluding to is the old ideas surrounding rape. That is that in order for it to follow the definition, it must be a taking without giving, and in such a manner as to leave the victim with nothing but desolation. This doesn't fit with the idea of it happening within a married relationship (since the husband is ostensibly supporting the woman), and so you would get legal claims using that as a defense. Instead, it gets categorized as "merely" a marital issue. What would fall under that definition is what you describe, which is a "Man by the street grabbing a woman doing it and then attempting to leave her with nothing." Traditionally, you could actually argue that a fix to this situation is a shotgun wedding. Also this is why armies going through cities and unnecessarily taking everything from them and destroying stuff on their way out was described that way too.

This is very problematic from a modern, post-feminist viewpoint (for what are obvious reasons). You're not going to convince anyone with a modern viewpoint to see things from that lens. Modern people are all individuals, even in the context of a marriage union. Sex is completely legitimate outside any kind of committed relationship, so we have distilled the prerequisites down to a hazy notion of "consent," where actually nobody really knows what's going on especially when it comes to consequences that nobody "consented" to. So there will be inconsistencies with such an approach.

johndrake481 · 2022-06-14T00:10:31+00:00

Listen, /u/Hosai87 , I appreciate what you were trying to do, but the conversation there was not that it wasn't rape when a woman does it to a guy, but that you cannot have sex with a sleeping/drugged person. It's why Bill Cosby is in such trouble. Of course its rape when a woman does it to a guy too. It all depends on the perspective. Honestly, if a woman was to blow me when I was sleeping, that would instantly wake me up in the most pleasant way possible.

Maybe that is what the couple in the /r/relationships were doing? She just 'decided' to not be into that once she found out. Or did she wake up?

I have a male friend who woke up in a hostel with a naked woman he barely knew on top of him having sex with him

'male friend'. Odd choice of words. Let me get you into this, it's called a One Night Stand. It does tend to happen. But I agree, if their roles were reversed, the guy would be in jail for rape.

Teufels-Advokat · 2022-06-14T00:35:00+00:00

The next time you want to question someones opinion, especially in discussions about emotional topics such as rape, I would advise against implying that the other participants are sexist biggots.

In general, this helps to not get your comments removed and it also is more likely to lead to a real discussion :)

Suitable-Mind-8559 · 2022-06-14T03:42:55+00:00

I’m the victim of forced ejaculation when my girl decided she wanted a kid. I didn’t consent to it and I told her I wasn’t ready for another kid at that particular moment… didn’t have it in me to take care of a baby midpandemic. I was also recovering from surgery and high af on percs at the time it happened. People I’ve shared this with have told me that i was raped. I’m still trying to process that info as a man. Our society is fucked if you reconsider that last sentence. I have no idea how I’m going to move forward with this. All I know is my perception of women has completely changed. I’ll never be the same.

satansfavpornwriter · 2022-06-15T06:13:44+00:00

It sounds a lot like a lot of the hate came from changing the context of the actual story. The context was that a male was raping his female partner whilst she was asleep with no previous consent (CNC was not established).

There are obvious nuances but in my opinion, yes, rape is rape. If you did not consent or remove consent then that should be respected by your partner or by a stranger. The breach of consent in both situations is terrible but in different ways. A stranger is the confusion and hurt that a random person violated your right to do what you want with your body. The second being a grave misuse of the trust your have for your partner.

thathighclassbitch · 2022-06-13T18:38:48+00:00

I get your point but you didn't get backlash because they don't consider that rape, you got backlash because of where you decided to have that discussion when no one was arguing it wouldn't have been rape the other way around. I've actually seen several posts describing the same issue, but reversed the genders. And most comments also did, indeed, call it rape.

I find it's a common issue on this sub to bring up issues in wrong places and then be surprised to get downvoted or shamed. Someone sharing their experience of being raped and asking for advice is not the time and place to debate the gender reversal, unless the gender reversal actually helps the victim (I.e. A man was rapes but doesn't realize it until you swap the genders)

Yung4Yrs · 2022-06-14T01:37:46+00:00

I promise when my wife gets home from her 12 hr night shift in the morning I'm gonna remind her that she's completely welcome to put her hand wherever she wants to 24/7 whether I'm asleep or not. Mmmm.

At 69 years old this whole exchange is yet again an example where tort lawyers, blue state courts, Title 9 higher education superseding equal protection under the law, etc. is making real relationships harder and harder to maintain in our culture. Marriage as an institution, fertility rate both dropping like a rock. If I was 21 and in university, it'd about be simpler to just work a hooker category into my budget. Safer way to get out of school w/o a potential "criminal record". While I am the proverbial nice guy, my views on relationships would be seen as Neanderthal by the Psychology and Women's Studies professors and I'd probably end up a takedown target.

Dr-Plague-Channel · 2022-06-13T21:42:51+00:00

Hypocrisy

MissMiraLynn · 2022-06-13T22:57:30+00:00

Yes it is rape. Unless previously discussed and agreed upon, touching a stranger or your spouse of a decade without consent is rape.

atactic87 · 2022-06-13T15:37:52+00:00

No, but it's still sex without consent. Could/should he be forgiven as a boyfriend; in my opinion yes. Do I believe that someone can sleep through sexual intercourse, doubtful without intoxication.

freerossulbrich · 2022-06-14T07:02:55+00:00

My mistress often touch my penis without bother asking my consent. It'll be silly to cry rape over it.

I mean I pay for this kind of thing. Not that I make details that it includes this, but so what?

Reasonable_cancelCA · 2022-06-13T20:01:11+00:00

This is actually how I was "raped" and people were making fun of me lol I forget what sub it was but it was hilarious . If the shoe was on the other foot and if they passed out drunk and woke up to someone giving them head... Oh Lord we'd still be reading about the post now.....

Former-Investigator4 · 2022-06-13T23:28:17+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Jezz_ah_bells · 2022-06-14T17:31:02+00:00

They was no point of bringing that up.

Title	"Rape is rape - it's simple you idiot".
Author	Hosai87
Upvotes	299
Comments	220
Date	June 13, 2022 1:53 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vbcqdc/rape_is_rape_its_simple_you_idiot/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/rape-is-rape-its-simple-you-idiot.1116151 https://theredarchive.com/post/1116151

Comments

Woman who performed sex act on sleeping man jailed for three and a half years