Norway introduces gender neutral conscription as first country in the world

Tamen_ · 2013-06-14T09:46:55+00:00

And interestingly enough it's the christian conservatives (KrF), Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI) and Norwegian Association for Women's Rights (NKF) that is against this: Google translated article

And even more interesting is it that the feminist is the one with the most gender essentialist view:

She opionionate that we should rather utilize the women's experience as care-givers to build peace, mediation and conflict resolving work.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2013-06-14T14:02:36+00:00

I think it is naturally an equal society that girls and boys have the same duties. Had the law been created today, it would be a given that it applied both sexes. But I do not think the government may impose a service, she says.

Has she heard of taxes?

Much has been made in connection with the session of the duty was introduced. But it is about more than having enough barracks, we must have material suitable clothing and other equipment. Some frameworks are in place, but we will have to increase capacity slightly, she said.

So the numerous things even outside fitness standards that make women more expensive to have in the military.

In a survey conducted by the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI), that class struggle has reviewed, shows that one in five women join the military because of bullying or sexual harassment.

I went to their site to see their publications and could not find this study. I'd be curious to see their metrics, particularly how many men also experienced this.

A series of articles in Aftenposten has shown that it is not so easy to get into the defense: Many motivated young people in good shape, which is approved at session 1 and 2 are demobilized when inserted.

The physical fitness tests for compulsory military personnel consist of a 3000m run to assess aerobic fitness, and pull-ups, sit-ups and push-ups to assess muscle fitness.

Men must do pull ups up to the chin with their feet off the floor. Women need only do pull ups to the chest, with their heels on a bench.

Situp standards are the same for men and women. Men must do roughly 50% more pushups than women for the same grade, women must do more "pull ups", but they're far easier as described above.

Men must basically run their 3000m runs 90 seconds faster.

So no, this law is far from gender neutral, given that there is no indication of standards changing with this new law as well.

notwhelmed · 2013-06-14T12:13:43+00:00

Not the first in the world, Israel has been conscripting both men and women for as long as I can remember.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-06-14T13:54:07+00:00

The Constitution states that all citizens are obliged to defend the fatherland. Up to now, the concept of citizen only included men.

Odd that Scandinavian feminists, not usually the silent types, had nothing to say about this.

KingOfEggsAndBacon · 2013-06-14T10:49:28+00:00

Even if the military is 50/50, they still wouldn't send women to die at the frontlines.

Edit:

Didn't even know Norway actually was fighting wars, but child comments educated me.

Pecanpig · 2013-06-14T10:13:09+00:00

Holy shit...

arrozconplatano · 2013-06-14T17:04:47+00:00

Great, now the state can enslave the population equally.

2013-06-14T17:44:20+00:00

I'd rather have no conscription.

HilscherFarms · 2013-06-14T13:17:15+00:00

This is very interesting, considering how feminist infested Norway is. I believe that feminism is a special interest group that seeks to better women at the expense of men, and yet here this is inconsistent with my beliefs and shows feminists not having it all their own way. Feminism has been opposing co-ed equality in drafts all around the world since the time they got the vote and were afraid that they'd have to be sent to war for the defense of the state if they had a say in how the state was run.

Granted, it does look like this will be fought against by the feminists, and end up pushing men to the frontlines while women take up all the non-combat roles for themselves. But this is still something that will be very noteworthy and important to watch in these matriarchal Scandinavian countries as rhetoric clashes with agenda.

And thank you, Norway, for embracing true equality regardless of gender.

2013-06-14T15:49:16+00:00

And here I thought Isreal and some of the Asian countries already had gender-neutral conscription...

SMZ72 · 2013-06-14T15:51:07+00:00

I thought Israel already did this.

milkope · 2013-06-14T18:02:31+00:00

This is great from the equality point of view, but I presonally think military is a waste of people's life and other resources.

2013-06-14T18:42:35+00:00

I absolutely love this! Obviously the US does the have conscription, but we should have both genders included in the draft if a situation necessitates the draft be reinstated.

farfarnorth · 2013-06-15T06:51:08+00:00

For you mentioning that conscription is slavery, it's not. At least not in Norway. There isn't a enormous demand for people, and they only take the ones who have a desire to be in the military and pass the requirements. It isn't that hard to avoid the military for those who can't or won't join.

AloysiusC · 2013-06-14T18:35:03+00:00

Lets hope they get the same haircut too...

2013-06-14T20:54:45+00:00

Conscription needs done away with entirely, but as long as it exists, I approve of this.

theskepticalidealist · 2013-06-15T01:21:43+00:00

Doesn't Israel also have gender neutral mandatory service? I looked it up not so long ago.

2013-06-15T05:20:43+00:00

When I read about this I was instantly sure that the real story was something else. The political ethos in a country like Norway doesn't allow large numbers of women to be drafted or demanded to do anything against their will, There is, after all, a strong political focus to improve the lives of women in every way.

So, after a few minutes off googling:

This is nothing like the Israeli conscription where (nearly) every women is drafted. In Norway every women will be asked if they want to serve and if they do then they have a chance to pass the psychological and other tests.

The estimation is that the new law will double the number of female conscripts from around 1 000 to 2 000 per year, from 10% to 20% of the total number (I find this hard to believe because the number of female soldiers has been dropping, not increasing in recent years).

So, is the system gender neutral only in theory?

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130614/DEFREG01/306140010/Norway-s-Military-Conscription-Extended-Women

bantam83 · 2013-06-14T17:44:53+00:00

Great, so now both sexes are enslaved. Yay 'progress'.

michaelsuede · 2013-06-14T17:47:39+00:00

I think the OP means gender neutral slavery.

drunkenJedi4 · 2013-06-14T21:39:48+00:00

This is a step in the wrong direction. Conscription is a form of slavery and it is a great shame that this institution still exists in the world today. Instead of extending this practice to women, we should do away with it entirely. Governments should not have the right to force their citizens to kill or be killed.

I would rather live in a world where half the population is subject to this vile practice than a world where everyone is, and I say this as someone who was forced to waste nine months of his life for the crime of being an able-bodied German male. Equality is important, but it is not as important as freedom and justice. Equality means nothing if everyone is treated equally badly.

smokew33d4lyfe · 2013-06-14T17:10:32+00:00

What this means in practice: men and women will be conscripted and paid the same, but the men will do all the dangerous and difficult jobs, while the women will be held to lower standards.

texasjoe · 2013-06-14T14:49:09+00:00

I believe I just might go into my Crusader Kings II Scandinavian campaign and change inheritance laws to absolute cognatic :)

Pecanpig · 2013-06-14T10:13:46+00:00

Nah, use women as cannonfodder.

Not to be a dick, but because it would make the other guy look bad.

ConfirmedCynic · 2013-06-14T18:11:34+00:00

I hope they won't have to fight a war.

DavidByron · 2013-06-14T16:56:11+00:00

I wonder if the article is true. Often there's a fanfare of "equality" and then later you find out it's only "feminist equality", you know whereby the women get top billing but behind the scenes the men have to do all the work still because oh well you can't send women into battle etc etc.

Kind of like Israel's army conscripts women too but they don't have to actually fight.

andeathSWE · 2013-06-14T11:12:30+00:00

Having women dying for men for once? Actually sounds kind of nice. Men could then take the time, when the women are away fighting wars, to rally up and make sure society treats women like evil, disposable, usless and voilent. Ofcourse that wouldn´t happen because men act like adults and take responsibility, very much unlike feminists. It is a fun thought however. =)

Revoran · 2013-06-14T15:10:34+00:00

What the fuck could Norway possibly need to conscript people into the military for? Are they gonna go to war for control the strategic blodkorv supply? Lol.

I feel conscription is unjust unless your country is actually being invaded. It's good that it's gender neutral but might it not be better to abolish peacetime conscription altogether? Should I rejoice that more people are going to be conscripted... ? Maybe I need to look at how Norway's system works a little more closely.

Sheckihund · 2013-06-14T15:52:06+00:00

Norway still has conscription too? Jesus fucking christ. Get with the times already. Although they do get points for not only burderning men with it(I'm looking at you, Finland).

moose333 · 2013-06-14T17:55:45+00:00

Norway isn't involved in any wars. They can afford to have females in the military.

steve_barfer · 2013-06-14T13:30:10+00:00

What we actually need is some sort of draft that includes restitution for the time when only men were drafted and only men died in the military. Yes, what we need is an ALL-FEMALE military draft, and we need to keep this in place until as many women die fighting in wars as men have already died fighting in our history. Then and only then will the death toll be "equal", and once this feminist dream of equality is achieved we can go to a gender neutral draft with a clean slate.

Title	Norway introduces gender neutral conscription as first country in the world
Author	vintermann
Upvotes	498
Comments	198
Date	June 14, 2013 8:35 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1gbsxn/norway_introduces_gender_neutral_conscription_as/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/norway-introduces-gender-neutral-conscription-as.1171263 https://theredarchive.com/post/1171263

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