What's the difference between "toxic masculinity" and "toxic femininity"? Or it's just that there are toxic people?

HazyMemory7 · 2023-05-06T17:49:49+00:00

I'll leave this up because I think these definitions are/can be relevant to dating behaviors.

KayRay1994 · 2023-05-06T17:57:48+00:00

toxic is toxic - though toxic masculinity is when you take traditionally masculine traits (ie. stoicism, competitiveness, confidence, problem solving) and take them to a toxic extreme - ie. being emotionally closed off, hyper-competitive, cocky and dictatorial, while feminine traits (empathy, emotional openness, agreeable-ness and compassion) are taken to a negative extreme - emotional manipulation, codependency, being a doormat, etc - they’re both toxic, but they’re different kinds of toxic

Slipthe · 2023-05-06T18:16:34+00:00

Toxic Masculinity:

Aggression and violence, including physical and sexual assault
Emotional suppression and the belief that showing vulnerability or expressing emotions is a sign of weakness
Dominance and control over others, including partners and family members
Objectification of women, treating them as objects rather than individuals with their own agency and dignity
Homophobia and transphobia, including the belief that being LGBTQ+ is a sign of weakness or inferiority
Extreme competitiveness and the belief that winning and dominating others is the most important thing
Pressure to conform to rigid gender roles and expectations, including expectations about being tough, stoic, and unemotional.

Toxic Femininity:

Passive aggression and manipulation, such as using guilt or emotional blackmail to control others
Gossiping and spreading rumors about others to undermine their reputation or social standing
Self-objectification and pressure to conform to unrealistic beauty standards
Belittling and undermining others, including partners, friends, and coworkers
Excessive emotional expression and the belief that expressing emotions is always acceptable, even if it involves hurting others
Dependence on men for self-worth and validation, rather than finding it within oneself
Pressure to conform to rigid gender roles and expectations, including expectations about being nurturing, submissive, and self-sacrificing.

Loud_Definition6669 · 2023-05-06T18:37:26+00:00

Anecdotally the most toxic men I knew were also toxic in traditional feminine ways. Catty, talking behind people's backs, etc.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-05-07T03:58:11+00:00

Both men and women can be toxic. Typically, toxic masculinity is stereotyped as more aggressive and violent, while toxic femininity is thought of as more passive-aggressive and manipulative. But men can 100% be manipulative, and women can also be violent. Women tend to underestimate men’s ability to manipulate, and men tend to let women’s violence slide since they don’t see them as a threat.

ChudBuck · 2023-05-07T05:25:04+00:00

I think of in terms of "the zone" or the state of being that allows you to grow in whatever endeavor in the most optimal way. You don't want to push yourself too hard or you will get burned out, but you still want to challenge yourself enough to stay engaged when learning something new.

Example, lifting weights. Toxic masculinity could manifest in the form of shaming the day one newbie for not benching 200 pounds. Toxic femininity would coax the newbie into not pushing himself at all. Both sexes are capable of both forms of toxicity.

MasterTeacher123 · 2023-05-07T10:54:46+00:00

There is just toxic people

2023-05-07T13:01:12+00:00

Because women like playing semantics games to condemn others while justifying their abusive behavior.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-05-06T23:41:58+00:00

Toxic behaviour is toxic behaviour, but the the left media does what left media does best: demonising men and excusing women's shitty behaviour.

wtknight · 2023-05-06T18:39:48+00:00

It's when one attempts to follow the principles of what is attractive to the opposite sex to such a great degree that it becomes more harmful to oneself or, arguably, to society than beneficial, or when one attempts to impose those standards upon others of the same gender when that imposition is unwanted.

So the only difference is that men and women have traditionally been expected to look and act in different ways that are attractive to the opposite sex.

Early-Christmas-4742 · 2023-05-06T18:42:49+00:00

My understanding of "toxic masculinity" is rhat it's toxic behaviour which is i tended to make someone seem more stereotypically masculine. Overly aggressivd, bottling up emotion...

Toxic femininity could be something likepretending to be more helpless to seem more feminine.

Safinated · 2023-05-06T23:06:25+00:00

They are usually opposite characteristics, because what’s good/expected in one gender is usually anathema in the other

orientedupward · 2023-05-07T14:06:13+00:00

I think truly toxic behavior is rather uniform across sexes. Here I'm talking about Cluster B traits exhibited by narcissists, psychopaths etc, which are prevalent in a small subset of both males and females.

This thing called "toxic" masculinity I believe is actually not toxic at all; it's merely men being men and following their natural proclivities. Some people today are at war with men and their instinctual behavior, so of course they label behaviors that they don't like, but which are for the most part innocuous, as "toxic." This cheapens the word toxic, however, and is a disservice to folks who are dealing with actual toxic people.

Also: the traits people label as "toxic masculinity" often happen to be traits that women are attracted to, so there's that.

tHiShiTiStooPID · 2023-05-07T14:36:26+00:00

Toxicity is not unique to any one gender. These are buzzwords used to passively imply that the collective traits of one gender or the other are essentially toxic. It amounts to a bullshit propaganda tactic. One thing that does make you toxic af: inventing terms like toxic masculinity, and we all know who did that shit.

MrHustleTopG · 2023-05-07T16:50:50+00:00

Fake words

DoinIt989 · 2023-05-08T00:17:57+00:00

Toxic femininity = pitbull moms.

63daddy · 2023-05-06T19:10:19+00:00

Referring to something as toxic is simply a way to portray it in a negative light. Toxic femininity is just as bad a term as toxic masculinity but at least it’s a term that’s a proportionate response to a similar accepted term.

Masculinity is simply the attributes of being male. These attributes aren’t toxic. Attributes aren’t the dark side if the force. Attributes can’t force men to do anything for good or bad.

If one wants to talk about negative societal pressures on men, then that’s how they should frame it. Negative social pressures are not masculinity. If someone tries to pass off influences on men as being attributes of being a man (masculinity) call them in it, they are not the same thing.

FifeDog43 · 2023-05-06T22:43:41+00:00

There's a BIG difference between masculinity and toxic masculinity, but IMO toxic masculinity is missing a key ingredient that is a major component of healthy masculinity: honor. A traditionally masculine man is confident, competitive, protects and provides, but is also honorable. Toxic men are all these things but have no sense of honor or morals.

Not sure about toxic femininity, but there are definitely some toxic feminine traits.

politicsthrowaway230 · 2023-05-06T18:05:30+00:00

Toxic masculinity is used to specifically highlight the influence of gender norms, just writing it all down to "general toxicity" misses the point. I have also rarely if ever heard the phrase "toxic femininity" outside of reaction to the term "toxic masculinity". I'm personally not a fan of either term as terms, but don't really object to the concept behind the term.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-05-06T18:19:07+00:00

The difference is people try and use "toxic femininity" as a counter or gotcha to feminists trying to talk about the harms of cultural expectations of masculinity when feminist already agree that cultural ideas of femininity are toxic.

Traditional-Bad-4055 · 2023-05-06T17:51:05+00:00

I always thought it was just aspects of masculinity or femininity that become toxic in extremes

KikiYuyu · 2023-05-06T21:26:09+00:00

The difference is just flavouring of the toxicity.

tricep_bro · 2023-05-07T09:37:49+00:00

Toxic is toxic.

"Toxic masculinity" is just shaming language for men.

Its purpose is to be ignored.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-05-07T04:38:18+00:00

Gendered toxicity in my opinion only meaningfully comes from abuse. And typically, abuse comes from an individual misusing their power in a given situation.

So...

Toxic masculinity: utilizing male privilege to negatively affect someone else, i.e. knowing that your colleagues will listen to you vs. a woman and stealing an idea and taking the credit.

Toxic femininity: utilizing female privilege to do the same, i.e. sleeping with a bunch of guys/people then shaming a man who "can't get laid."

tofuwings · 2023-05-06T18:48:38+00:00

I always thought the term toxic masculinity referred to ways the men themselves were hurt when they internalized the traits.

. For instance, any ideas about self sufficiency that are seen as masculine. If that contributed to male unhappiness, such as the high suicidal rate among middle aged men, that would be toxic masculinity.

I think similarly, toxic feminity would be a young mother who doesn’t ask for help when she is having problems with her baby because women are “just supposed to know” and she’s internalized that.

Of course the term has been destroyed by online discourse.

Chemical_Major_1403 · 2023-05-06T20:00:41+00:00

Toxic masculinity is just women attacking men's brain when men opening to their instinct not their emotion, when men's brain fail to proccess trought a problem it's the inatinct that kicks off not emotion men are shamed foe litteraly acting like their nature , in psychology men are more complicated than women in a way that " neurosexism" become a thing , litteraly we are ruining the average men to the max

RatchedAngle · 2023-05-06T22:17:14+00:00

I’d say that toxic masculinity is fist-through-the-drywall type stuff.

Whereas toxic femininity is “I’m going to give you a compliment that’s actually a backhanded insult” type stuff.

It’s pretty easy to tell the difference.

punktfan · 2023-05-07T05:18:06+00:00

Toxic is toxic. But in my experience there are different ways that typically masculine or feminine traits tend to become toxic.

Toxic masculinity is often associated with machismo, aggression, violence, etc.

Toxic femininity is often associated with mean girls, exclusivity, using sex to manipulate, etc.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-05-07T04:02:56+00:00

They both exist. We know what both are. But let's keep it real.

When is the last time toxic femininity shot up a school?
When is the last time toxic femininity nearly crashed the world banking system?

Let's be careful of false equivalencies.

Vronicasawyerredsded · 2023-05-06T21:16:12+00:00

“Toxic femininity” is means of survival and to avoid exploitation and abuse.

“Toxic masculinity” is a means to control power, subdue, and abuse.

goats-egg · 2023-05-07T04:20:32+00:00

Doesn't toxic masculinity refer to a toxic masculine standard that pressures men into perpetuating negative traits? For example, the subliminal message from society to men is that men aren't allowed to cry and that a man who cries is "less of a man" (not masculine enough) which results in men repressing sadness and just becoming angry instead. This man who has been told to repress then applies the same standards to others, and so the cycle remains and no progress remains, which is toxic. This applies to jobs and behavior too (like men shouldn't be nurses, or shouldn't order pink drinks etc), and people who are NOT men can also adhere to toxic masculinity.

Toxic femininity would be the same just for "typical" feminine traits. A woman is less of a woman because she's child-free, dyes her hair or whatever. I honestly don't hear about it much since I most people would just conflate it with misogyny(which it would be). The most i hear of a toxic feminine standards would be from TERFS to transwomen, where they deny their womanhood because of said feminine standards.

Had no idea the comments would be so different.

AutoModerator · 2023-05-06T15:39:35+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

xTakki27 · 2023-05-07T12:20:52+00:00

It's using the main primal drives of either gender to reach certain goals:

Toxic Masculinity: Aggression (I get what I want or there will be bloodied noses), Force, Void of Emotions, Performance, just like machinery

Toxic Feminity: Looks to overcome any hardship in life ("Check my Onlyfans, and be my paypig, cuz I don't wanna get a real job"), wailing over every little thing to make people feel bad for you and egocentricism

It's as easy as that

Title	What's the difference between "toxic masculinity" and "toxic femininity"? Or it's just that there are toxic people?
Author	Alfred-Adler
Upvotes	35
Comments	118
Date	May 6, 2023 3:39 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/139taw7/whats_the_difference_between_toxic_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-the-difference-between-toxic-masculinity-and.1218532 https://theredarchive.com/post/1218532

Comments