The right-wing is harmful to men’s rights.

Title_IX_For_All · 2023-09-27T11:48:33+00:00

It seems that when it comes to men’s issues the left are totally unwilling to advocate for them and the right are totally incompetent.

My take would be that the left is generally hostile to them (not merely ignoring them), and the right is generally either incompetent, disingenuous, or just grifting (or all three).

One_Ad_3499 · 2023-09-27T09:22:01+00:00

Andrew Tate saw his opening (where he can extract the most money) in part because he is too much narcissist to be silenced. When you silence all reasonable people, Andrew Tate is all you have left because he doesnt care if some people hate him or not as long as grift is good

sn95joe84 · 2023-09-27T11:55:24+00:00

Please read “Men on strike” by Dr. Helen Smith!

She talks about ‘white knights’ who tend to be Republican, and end up going against men’s advocacy, as well as ‘uncle Tims’ who tend to be democrats, who passively do the same under the blanket of trying to be an ally to feminism.

She gives a great synopsis of some of the biggest issues facing men, and the political opponents to true equality and men’s issues advocacy.

Zess-57 · 2023-09-27T10:28:56+00:00

Mostly it is just either men telling men to man up on the right, or women telling men to man up on the left

gnomeonacid · 2023-09-27T13:16:04+00:00

You're getting the order of things wrong.

Andrew Tate et. al got popular because nobody cared in the first place. It's disingenuous to say that now people don't take mens' issues seriously and they're to blame.

SlyPogona · 2023-09-27T13:01:46+00:00

that's because the right has a very trad view on masculinity, so they don't care about those issues. Male suicide is just men that weren't men enough.

I followed for awhile the Ben Shapiro channel and all of his acolytes and it was just a desperate attempt to bring traditional values back, men go to work, women raise kids, men are responsible for the upkeep of society, women for the pass on traditions. Men are machines, women nurtures.

Which is surprisingly intersectional with modern feminism

Blauwpetje · 2023-09-27T11:01:12+00:00

‘What should be an easy win for men’s causes’… Apparently not, alas. It hasn’t been for decades and Tate is not to blame it still isn’t. I think it’s the other way round: men who really are harmed by gynocentrism and fed up with it prefer someone who shouts loud to people who endlessly try to be reasonable towards a culture that’s never been reasonable to them.

Cheetahfan123 · 2023-09-27T12:21:34+00:00

They never cared about men. They think men need to conform to the gender roles in order to be men

Vegetable_Camera5042 · 2023-09-27T20:42:02+00:00

This post is great.

The right is a good way for some feminists to discredit legitimate male issues. Because the right are bad actors.

Interesting_Doubt_17 · 2023-09-27T08:53:25+00:00

Ava Santina

I've looked it up and I noticed she's the very same person who claimed that men should be afraid of false accusations

https://youtu.be/C0ARTJRYNZk?si=p2vCZPXvgxAR-GiQ

SvitlanaLeo · 2023-09-28T00:18:56+00:00

Left-wing misandry: “We hate men as class”.

Right-wing misandry: “We respect men, but only real men”.

SuspicousEggSmell · 2023-09-27T18:23:59+00:00

The right only seems better because progressive spaces are usually really hostile about the majority of men’s issues. But the right is shit at covering most men’s issues, and is just as willing to burry them if it’s more convenient, especially the issues of MoC, lgbtq men, trans people, disabled men, and frequently poor and working class men. Plus moderate conservatives tend to be willing to cater at least a little on feminism when it comes to things like DV, at the very least it’s either less DV funding for everyone or more for women. They still tend to not address men’s issues except ones that let them justify reinforcement of gender norms, stopping immigration, and forcing men into war.

And then there’s the far right, which obviously sucks in general, but that’s where you get the Andrew Tates and Pearls, who still want to fuck over most men along with their misogyny, and they have that weird alliance with TERFs because they all hate trans people more than they care about men

International-Pool29 · 2023-09-27T07:57:50+00:00

Is gatekeeping the activism really going to do much though? Neither side on the mainstream cares about men's issues because there is nothing to cash in, men lack spending power in terms of political issues where as lobbying for feminist causes is not hard.

parahacker · 2023-09-27T08:53:19+00:00

You'll be happy to know Fresh&Fit got removed from Youtube, then.

I'm not. As a diehard liberal, I am absolutely infuriated by deplatforming, even of people I have to hold my nose around. Because I know I'm next. Unless I keep my mouth shut. After all, I'm not a big fan of wealth inequality or feminists, which puts me at odds with most of the people with decision-making power at the top...

So even though I also frequently disagree with Fresh and Fit, the fact that they got knocked off Youtube was enough to push me to actually register a Rumble account. Again, even though it's a sanctuary for people I strenuously disagree with, I still want them to be heard so I can disagree with them. Sometimes I learn things that way.

Also, fuck Youtube and Google. I am so done with their shit.

dentrake · 2023-09-27T13:30:30+00:00

The right aren't really incompetent. They just don't care. They are in it for the perks. Like a lot of the top feminists are in it for the gift, so are many "male advocates" of the right. Most of them really couldn't care less of what happens to boys or men.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2023-09-27T21:39:52+00:00

I wouldn't even classify Andrew Tate as an advocate of any kind. He's just a faux-masculine misogyny/rage grifter. Nothing I've heard about him has to do with advocacy for men on any level.

instead of just discussing the issue he goes straight to the misogyny

This happens all the time. They're either misogynists or inarticulate goobers. That's what happens when you spend a generation telling boys that caring about men's issues is crypto-misogyny. Actual conscientious people are scared away, and the only people willing to be vocal are the ones who don't care about bigots...i.e. the bigots.

That's one of the biggest challenges men face. There's a whole zeitgeist against taking this stuff seriously. How many of us here used to be like that ourselves? I was crazy dismissive of this stuff for most of my life.

LobYonder · 2023-09-27T23:12:19+00:00

The Left claims women need privileges because 'oppression'. The Trad Right claims women need privileges because 'chivalry' or trad gender roles. It's the same bigotry with different excuses as far as I'm concerned. Very few are concerned about the problems this causes.

It's possible to advocate equality of treatment and equality of opportunity while acknowledging there are typical differences in gender preferences or abilities which lead to different outcomes and that's fine. That's compatible with both conservative and liberal values. All adults are moral agents and should be treated equally. This is obvious to me but is attacked from both sides for their own reasons. I think we just have to keep advocating and keep pointing out that the existing sexism is wrong and very damaging to society. Eventually prejudices will change.

hotpotato128 · 2023-09-27T13:31:08+00:00

Andrew Tate and Fresh & Fit were never MRAs.

matrixislife · 2023-09-27T15:55:29+00:00

Your conclusion doesn't fit your title.

hottake_toothache · 2023-09-27T23:05:15+00:00

The left is uniformly hostile to men's issues on every level, while significant politicians on the right have at least recognized that there is an issue (eg Josh Hawle and Marco Rubio). I'm sorry, but you are way off here. For all their faults, the right is at least open to the idea that men's issues need to be discussed more.

I get that you don't like Andrew Tate or Fresh & Fit, but being on the right is not one of their defining characteristic.

ProfessionalPut6507 · 2023-09-28T06:53:08+00:00

I think you are wrong in this. Plus you make the typical error of putting all the Right in the same category from Tate to Murray. They are not the same, the same way as you are not the same as the woke morons currently denying issues men might have. Most of you are doing the same performative tribalist thinking the idpol advocates do (the Right is evil, when they do something positive it is either by mistake or by some sort of malice), instead of recognizing that there are voices in both camps (as if it was a left-right issue anyhow) that are quite reasonable, and should work together.

Confident_Scarcity14 · 2023-09-28T14:26:42+00:00

Most of them want to lure young insecure teenagers into their pyramid scheme.

But, yeah both left and right wingers don't care about men rights in general.

But right wingers always stand against any gender discrimination laws against men, which we leftists dont. And those right wingers are not in mainstream media.

deusdeorum · 2023-09-27T15:42:54+00:00

Personally I think the left has done more harm than the right, but at the end of the day, neither side has a particularly good track record.

Karmaze · 2023-09-28T02:05:42+00:00

It's not that the right wing is harmful to men's rights per se.

I think it's wrong to look at this in terms of a simple one dimensional axis, because that's not what is going on. I prefer at least a two dimensional axis. That is, that there's a second axis going up and down, with the up being more authoritarian and collectivist in nature.

What I would argue is that anything above center is harmful to men's rights.

tzaanthor · 2023-09-28T02:16:39+00:00

That being said, the new brash wave of right wing male advocates that have appeared online in recent years (e.g. Andrew Tate, Fresh & Fit, etc ) have turned what should be an easy win for men’s causes, into a laughing stock. Advocating for men’s issues should actually be one of the easiest things to do when you have a large platform.

Are you familiar with Noam Chomskys manufacturing consent?

sn95joe84 · 2023-09-27T13:02:32+00:00

GREAT post.

The way I look at things is this... our gender equity issues are all living in the past.

The 'men's rights', right-wing is TWO steps behind, living in 1950. The feminist, left-wing is ONE step behind, living circa 1980. And the reason the left wing is a step behind is because of the existence and the stubbornness of the right-wing.

They are an anchor limiting our progress to where we NEED to be, in a post-feminist world of 2023 where women are outpacing men in college graduation almost 2:1, and men staggeringly lead deaths of despair including, but not limited to suicides.

Let me give an example: reproductive rights and freedom. Where we stand today is that men have zero control over their reproductive freedom. Consider the case of STATUTORY RAPE against a fifteen year old boy, where the child had to PAY HIS RAPIST, an adult woman, child support for a sexual encounter he could not even LEGALLY consent to.

This is obviously a grotesque miscarriage of justice.

But the whole system of child support, as it is, wouldn't even exist, if WOMEN HAD REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS TOO! Women MUST have the right to choose, to access healthcare and have abortions.

That way, if men do not wish to have forced fatherhood, they could simply opt out and allow the woman to raise a child against his wishes, with her own financial burdens of doing so.

It requires the old school, right wing conservative patriarchy to be destroyed to allow for true men's rights advocacy, as is needed in 2023, to exist. Otherwise, the 1980's style feminists will continue to squash our needs in the actual modern world, and they will do it out of self-preservation.

DesoLina · 2023-09-27T12:25:20+00:00

They’re the only one who give ANY kind of empathy and support for nan, and propose ANY actionable solutions.

LEDIEUDUJEU · 2023-09-27T23:13:23+00:00

The right isn't incompetents, they just don't care. They need angry bittered men to vote right. so they stir up hate from this issue to electrize their audience .They always miss the goal on purpose because they don't plan to do anything about thoses issues, they need them just the way they are.

Only the left can do something but for this we really need to go back in feminist space and FEROCIOUSLY fight against misandry to make men issues being taken seriously because there is a good portion of them who wants feminism to be for women only and fight tooth and nails to keep it that way.

I want to point out thoses women aren't feminists, they're traumatized sick individuals who wants revenge against any men and use feminism as a platform.

Throwthat84756 · 2023-09-28T02:42:42+00:00

Yeah I totally agree. As a guy, all of the issues raised here are part of the reason why I personally feel so lost politically. In my country most of my generation (gen z) tend to be strong supporters of the most far left progressive side of politics. Yet for me personally, I feel like the odd one out in that I strongly dislike that side of politics because of its strong association with feminists and their tendency to downplay/ignore misandry in the feminist movement, not to mention their outright hostility towards men's issues being addressed, especially if it conflicts with a narrative they are trying to set (i.e. domestic violence against men).

However, I also dislike right wing politically for a wide variety of reasons, including the fact that they too don't really care about mens right's and men's issues. It seems many individuals on the right wing just pretend to care about men's issues to garner attention, but won't really do anything to address these issues. In fact, in some cases they are outright hostile to men's rights when it conflicts with their ideology. Many of these individuals will also spout misogynistic statements as well which is very off putting.

Overall, I find myself disliking both sides of the political spectrum, and feel like no side of politics really cares about trying address and solve men's issues, which is sad. I wonder if anybody else feels this way?

AriochBloodbane · 2023-09-28T07:43:28+00:00

The right wing “male rights” guys are very often angry neckbeard incels that keep giving feminists the perfect excuse to say “all men bad”.

Not sure why all the hate speak against men is tolerated (and sometimes even praised) at a time when we came to the agreement that hate speak is a bad thing that cannot be accepted.

ReasonVision · 2023-09-28T08:14:43+00:00

Usually, things like "Enter X person" is when you embed a link, I'm not keen on searching for what Lauren Fox said.

Also, Tate and FnF are not right wing, they're Pimps profiting from the sexual revolution. Conservatives have been strongly against that since before the sexual revolution.

A case could be made and this is worth taking note of. I also disagree of their cynical use of MRA statistics and causes when they despise the movement (basically every part of the manosphere that's not part of the MRA has been distant, mocking or condemning of it, so they shouldn't hide behind it for legitimacy, they're hurting everyone).

Due-Lie-8710 · 2023-09-27T19:21:56+00:00

you are right , they are just less harmful than the left but the right is honestly doing a better job , i dont consider Andrew Tate or fresh and fit as necessarily right wing because even the right doesn't agree with them, i see them more as apolitical people who talk about men's dating issues specifically , the only reason they associate it with right wing is because they consider discuss men issues from a non feminist perspective as right wing generallyor misogynists as right wing even thou you can be a leftist and still have this opinions not because it is but because its easier to vilify them if they are considered right wing, the right isnt that much better generally but they at least discuss the only issue is that their solution is to be traditionally masculine which isnt really a solution for everyone just people who want to be traditionally masculine , as for laurence fox , yeah there are right wing pundits who can be dumb but like these are jusgt right wingers , there are MRAs ,being right wing doesnt mean you care about men issues , just like being left wing doesnt mean you are pro feminist or that you care about women issues

b_pilgrim · 2023-09-27T16:38:39+00:00

Left winger here. From my view, right-wing grifters do the easy, fun, entertaining work of appeasing men's anger and frustration, and offering them an unattainable solution (stopping progress and restructuring society), capturing an audience of directionless men struggling. There's no actual solution, but there's a community of other men to echo their anger and frustration. It gives them validation and not much more.

The left does have a problem with a lack of male role models who are directly addressing this issue in a meaningful way beyond "feminism can help you too!" There doesn't seem to be much in the way of validation, but there is help based in feminist theory, it's just a tough pill to swallow and it's hard. It takes work. I used to be a lot more ambivalent towards it, but I did the hard work of examining myself, my views, my experience, against concepts like "privilege" and "patriarchy," and I'm a lot more open to it now. I understand it in a way I didn't before and I'm far less hostile. But did I mention it's hard?

For as well educated and academic the left tends to be, we haven't found a way to package this. We haven't found a good way to validate men's concerns. We haven't offered a solid pipeline to healing. We haven't done a great job of breaking things down into digestible bites. There's a large valley of despair between the snake oil of the right's "we have the solution to all your problems, just follow us!" and the left's "yeah there's a big fucking problem but it's hard and it takes a lot of work, a lot of reading, a lot of understanding complex topics to fix it, idk."

When people are desperate hurting, they'll go to whoever will offer them comfort, no matter how much that comfort will cost them in the long run.

RikuAotsuki · 2023-09-30T10:37:01+00:00

I'm late to this (just found out the sub exists) but I've noticed this in a more general sense.

My take relates more to the MensRights sub than anything else. It's sort've in an awkward position, because there's so few places online where misogynistic sentiments can be shared that aren't in actual extreme, inherently misogynistic spaces.

The paradox of tolerance, basically. It's allowed, because so many of those guys are largely just bitter or scared because they or people they know have had their lives casually wrecked by women and they have literally no where else to get any sort of sympathy for it.

Then traditionalists and more genuinely misogynistic people feel more at home there, etc. I think this is probably true for the movement as a whole to some degree or another.

All that said, I do appreciate some of the more traditional sentiments, sometimes. I'm a fairly effeminate guy myself, but even I've noticed how every single masculine trait or tendency gets treated like some sort of disorder we need to train out of kids.

Safe-Stuff-1475 · 2023-10-26T14:19:26+00:00

This is just one of many reasons why I'm a centrist

Title	The right-wing is harmful to men’s rights.
Author	LowDgg
Upvotes	289
Comments	100
Date	September 27, 2023 7:12 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/16tds8u/the_rightwing_is_harmful_to_mens_rights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/the-right-wing-is-harmful-to-mens-rights.1233168 https://theredarchive.com/post/1233168

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