How can a "nice guy" truly become a cocky, playful asshole ("bad boy")?

PopularBug5 · 2024-01-14T11:23:22+00:00

An 'asshole' is simply a very good looking guy that gets misinterpreted as being contrarian, rebellious and brave, because girls are simping and hamstering in his presence. They much rather lie to themselves than accept that the guy is indeed an asshole and as a result miss out on getting some with a rare, good looking guy.

DXBrigade · 2024-01-14T16:27:22+00:00

Men who are popular with women are just popular...in general. They are the type of guys with ton of friends who get invited to parties. They are not necessarily assholes they are just guys who are fun to be around.

The problem of a lot of self proclaimed "nice guys" is that they confuse being nice with being a straightlaced nerds. Being teasing, flirty or playful doesn't make you an asshole, it just means you have social skills. It's the same for drinking or smoking (weed) in college just make you a normie.

mvnnyvevwofrb · 2024-01-14T16:43:26+00:00

It has to do with attachment styles. Nice Guys have an anxious attachment style, "assholes" probably have an avoidant attachment style. Unhealthy attachment styles develop in childhood, as a response to childhood trauma. So it's not possible (and not desireable) to learn a new unhealthy attachment style, just to copy someone else's dating success.

Electronic_West_1831 · 2024-01-14T09:55:34+00:00

They can’t - you can’t successfully pretend to be something you’re not; people always see right through it

campskills21 · 2024-01-14T18:31:03+00:00

They usually can’t. If you can get a roster of girls going you will naturally become a man of desire. They can smell all the female pheromones on you and you’ll act like a totally different cocky person. Getting girls means you will get more girls. When you don’t, they know you got nobody after you and won’t desire you.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-01-14T10:35:44+00:00

Imma be honest you're either an asshole or you're not there is no becoming one... People that try to be assholes often get angry to kinda drive it home a natural asshole can make you feel like shit with a calm and collect voice... And that's the bad boy thing women like...

unrequited-remnant-2 · 2024-01-14T17:52:14+00:00

You can be cocky and playful without being an asshole. There have been times in my life, when I was younger, dumber, and more arrogant, where I was extremely cocky and honestly quite charming but I was never a prick (if I do say so myself). I don't think politics enters into it very much, but I've always been a liberal feminist courting liberal feminist women.

The prescription is to believe in yourself to an almost delusional degree: know in your bones that you are the smartest, hottest, strongest, fastest, funniest mf in the room at all times. But then you don't need to use that arrogance to demean others.

If you know you've already won, you can be magnanimous in victory, and everyone will love you for it. You can make yourself the butt of the joke and you'll come off even better for being so self-deprecating. Be kind, be giving and generous, but be kind and giving from your own vast abundance, not kind and giving because you are a desperate supplicant begging for scraps in return.

I think this is the problem with "nice guys": they aren't really kind, they're playing an angle, or doing what they've been told to do.

Anyway, to answer the question, I don't know if you can fake this mindset, exactly, but you can work on your self-esteem and perhaps brainwash yourself into believing it. It's probably harder to maintain the older you get and the more you're confronted with your own real limitations and shortcomings.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-01-14T20:57:12+00:00

i dont think you can, but you can certainly learn how to have a little game some frame and boundaries. this goes a really long way

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-01-14T21:32:21+00:00

I used to be a complete nice guy in the sense that I was overly accommodating and timid. Women were on a pedestal and I deferred to them.

I'm much better now.

I've read some books like No More Mr. Nice Guy, Not Nice, and Models and The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck both by Mark Manson.

During and after reading these I started examining my behavior in various circumstances, especially with women. I really dug in and asked myself if I was being authentic. That is, was I doing or not doing something just to please others or avoid offending them? Was I afraid to say something? Did I feel like I had to say something or laugh when I didn't really want to? Et cetera.

The important part is being curious and reflective about your actions, recognizing mistakes, and slowly correcting nice guy behaviors. I've almost completely rid myself of this curse in the early stages of romantic relationships by going on lots of dates and applying this system. Some of it is experimenting with what women respond to. Mostly it is making sure I'm being true to myself, regardless of outcomes. That's the actual important thing.

I see at least one comment on here that says you can't change and it's just pretending if you try to. Fuck that. We can improve and we don't have to be in nice guy hell for life. For me, spending a lot of time training myself to be bolder and more authentic has made me just that. I don't think about it anymore. It's just me now. Trying to act like I was before would feel unnatural and terrible. I recognize my old behaviors in other men now and I feel sorry for them and try to help them out when I can.

Now the initial attraction phase with a woman is second nature. I just be myself (Just Be Yourself is not bad advice if you have an attractive personality lol). I don't think about a first date at all apart from planning out what we'll do. I just show up I do and say what I feel like. I'm completely confident. I genuinely don't care about the outcome - if I just meet someone cool that's fine. I'm playful always. Sometimes I'm playfully cocky but being too arrogant just isn't in my nature so I don't go too far with that. I don't try to sell myself at all. I just show what I am and they can take it or leave it.

I'm now working on these things deeper into a relationship, past the first 10 dates or so. I'm still uncovering some nice guy behaviors and working on deprogramming them out of me. Also in other contexts, like at work. It's a slow process, but it's totally worth it.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-01-14T10:56:14+00:00

Maybe it's impossible for you to imagine, but there are a lot of people out there who are both nice and playful. (And being left wing doesn't make you nice, that's such a politically biased statement.) Being a good person doesn't mean you can't make a joke. You'll just make it clear you are just playing around and make sure it isn't hurting anyone.

AceOfSpadesGymBro3 · 2024-01-14T11:11:30+00:00

Nice guys believe their niceness comes from being moral and ethical. That their niceness equals altruism, blah blah blah.

The reality is niceness comes from the fear of being disapproved of. That's it! It's just fear. If we didn't fear disapproval, we wouldn't be so nice and follow the rules to a t.

If a nice guy wants to become more of a bad boy, he has to focus on being more selfish and acting like the universe revolves around him. He needs to shed the fake modesty learned from his mom who told him to be a nice, modest, polite boy who waits his turn. He should focus on what HE wants in life and go after it directly, instead of spending all his time trying to figure out how to please others.

That's what bad boys do. They put themselves first. They are selfish, strong (know what they want) and go wherever they want. That's a very powerful combination for most women, who prefer to be wjth a guy who is going places than a nice guy, who lets everyone else have their cake and it eat it too because he is too modest and altruistic.

If you look at it from an evolutionary psychology standpoint, for the vast majority of human history, we had very scarce and limited resources. The guy who didn't believe in putting himself first, of going after what he wants without deferring to other men, this guy probably didn't survive long. And the woman who chose to be with him, didn't survive long either because he failed to get food and resources for them. The bad boy caveman, on the other hand, went out and got the best meat and the best furs because he was selfish and unafraid of other men. He survived, so did his woman and so did his kids.

oooo020201lfl · 2024-01-14T20:36:55+00:00

Start doing c*ke

Gravel_Roads · 2024-01-14T10:32:45+00:00

I didn't read all of your post (sorry), but in this case, Red Pill is pretty spot on with:

"I Am The Prize" - Trying to figure out what other people want, and then trying to fit yourself into that mold only keeps you on your backfoot, and you're always stuck waiting for people to tell you how to behave. If you LIKE yourself, and do things you enjoy doing, you're not trying to get people to like you - you ALLOW people that YOU like to be around you, and you allow ONLY the people you like the benefit of your company. But for this to work, your company has to actually be enjoyable. Which brings us to...
DGAF - Stop worrying what people think of you and focus on doing what you like. This is not only good for your self-esteem, as you actually like what you do, but presumably you're also having fun, which makes you more appealing to others, who would also potentially enjoy having fun WITH you. It's amazing how few people actually get up the gumption to just... go DO something fun. When people see or hear of someone ELSE doing something fun, they then want to JOIN them - this is also an example of Positive Leadership Behavior, as people end up wanting to follow your lead.
Amuse and Amplify - Cringy-as-fuck name, which is why TRP is embarrassing for people to talk about in public lol. But this advice, in terms of "how to deal with social challenges" (ie "shit-tests") is pretty universal. It's the comedy trope called "Yes, and...", because instead of getting defensive or hostile, you take all the power out of the criticism by agreeing with it, and then turning it into a joke. (ie, I'm a short guy, and when people give me shit about it, I just say "You come down here and say that." Instead of appearing insecure about my height, I've now got everyone laughing at my jokes.)

Almost all of this "Bad Boy" shit is just sour grapes from overly-inhibited men who are too nervous to do something if they don't think society will approve of. They think of ANYTHING that isn't Playing it Safe as "BEING BAD!"

But "bad boy" are literally not doing anything bad. They're just going about their business enjoying themselves while everyone else freaks out at how uninhibited they are.

profstarship · 2024-01-14T17:05:16+00:00

You can't fake it. The real secret is to date women you don't care about. I've come to realize I act that way towards girls I don't really want to date, just fuck, and it makes me irresistible to them. But if I meet a girl I really like and want to date I become a total simp. Idk how to fix it tbh. If you find out let me know. But you can't effectively fake it long enough for anything meaningful.

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FromAuntToNiece · 2024-01-14T15:12:44+00:00

How can we take guys who are inclined towards equality, altruism, and cooperation and turn them into bad boys/playful assholes?

I (40M) am trying to undergo this personal transformation right now. The alternative is to become a left-wing mirror image of Ebenezer Scrooge, because toxic managers exist regardless of politics.

I'm also unapologetically gunning for younger women as young as 21 (while being open to dating older women). My looks justify this move!

RodVerga · 2024-01-14T15:16:29+00:00

Getting rid of Covert Contracts and Validation Seeking has to be the biggest bang for your buck.

You want to become cocky funny because girls like you? That’s already your first covert contract.

A guy here on reddit stating how secure he is in his masculinity, when a girl is venting about her boyfriend for being insecure while she’s actually done with him and wants to a girls night out and let it happen, but she has to resolve her from all blame? Validation seeking right there.

Seriously, a nice guy can only do it if he’s actually does the work and is replacing his codependent behaviors with adult assertiveness skills and on top of it, he has to put himself first before others, figuring out what is it what he wants and not others want him to think what he wants.

Dontbiteitok24 · 2024-01-14T21:04:54+00:00

Say “Less” Practice stoicism.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-01-14T21:40:39+00:00

“Ironically, this would be exactly what women would want, correct?”

Um, no.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-01-14T22:43:36+00:00

So I feel like you’re conflating several dimensions of personality to put men into two simple categories, when in reality a majority don’t fit into either. The “big five” personality traits are openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism. Your nice guy stereotype is probably low on openness (doesn’t want to try a lot of new things, may be seen as boring), high on conscientiousness (thoughtful, good impulse control), low on extroversion (not very social), high on agreeableness (prioritizes the needs of others, not argumentative), and may go either way on neuroticism (emotional instability). Your asshole stereotype would be the exact opposite.

However, how many people that you know personally (I’m talking family, close friends) really fit perfectly into either of these? From a distance, I’d say a lot do. Close up, I think I know none, maybe one at most.

Extraversion probably helps the most with dating, followed by openness. So if our nice guy is lacking in those, yes he will struggle, whereas if the asshole is low on conscientiousness and agreeableness but high on the aforementioned traits, he will still do better. That much I agree on. But there are also many other combos, and I don’t believe all outgoing, open guys are “actually bad people.” Seems like black and white, “all or nothing” thinking to me.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2024-01-14T16:07:40+00:00

Every so often, a nice guy breaks off the plantation, and learns how to put himself first.

Very Triggering Post (for blue pills) Put Yourself First: Why Being an Asshole is a Good Thing

toasterchild · 2024-01-14T20:22:37+00:00

You guys gotta stop making up new definitions for the word nice. Y'all keep wanting nice to be the same as pushover and it's not. Nothing about believing in equality or cooperation stops you from joking around or being playful. My outspoken liberal husband makes insensitive jokes to me all the time, it's funny because he doesn't believe it. Now sometimes people overhear him without knowing the context and think he's a total jerk but that just actually makes it funnier.

wtknight · 2024-01-14T15:27:24+00:00

I don't think that most women desire assholes, but they do like confidence in men. Men just need to develop the skills to back up that confidence.

OpticalEpilepsy · 2024-01-14T09:52:22+00:00

Studies show that men who call themselves "incels" are actually a slightly left-leaning demographic:

If they are a "slightly left-leaning demographic", then they are in a league of their own in terms of exiled and opposed "slightly left-leaning demographics"

We don't need a no true scotsman person to defend incels we can see what they say in this sub and their many hideouts across the internet. They aren't these "innocent good boys down on their luck" that they try to market themselves as. They are narcissistic men with fragile egos that talk condescendingly and dismissively to anybody who disagrees with them and relentlessly red herring (WhAt AbOuT wOmEn) motte and bailey (wE jUsT wAnT wOmEn tO aCkNoWlEdGe OuR sTrUgGlE) and false equivalence (lEt StArViNg pEoPlE sTaRvE).

They respond to women adressing their concerns about being raped or killed by men dismissively and with red herrings. They complain about how they can't get away with it like Ted Bundy could instead of complaining about Ted Bundy being a bad person. They try to overrule what women say about their preferences in men on grounds that women are irrational like women don't go on dates with men they find attractive or women choose single over bottom 80% of men or women erroneously believe casual sex doesn't benefit them.

Then when you point any of this out like I just did, they narcissistically appeal to the stone with a condescending tone and show they don't care how much society hates them they will unapologetically be monsters with no remorse

This type of crap is comes from monsters not "left"

Glad_Supermarket_450 · 2024-01-14T13:09:13+00:00

The “nice guy” doesn’t exist, those are just men scared to speak up.

bikerider6969 · 2024-01-14T17:59:10+00:00

By blasting testosterone unironically

codeinecrim · 2024-01-14T14:40:43+00:00

bro go touch grass and get some self awareness

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-01-14T14:47:36+00:00

A “nice guy” doesn’t have to be. He just has to actually BE a nice guy and not a “good boy,doormat”

Just being “nice” because you like someone tho isn’t “being a nice guy”.

That’s like going to a concert where the venue says “there will be sound” No shit. It’s a concert- sound is expected.

bioh4ckdr · 2024-01-14T22:04:11+00:00

Just stop caring about women. At 43 I can assure it’s not worth the hassle. I met my wife like 3 years ago. Before that everything was a waste of time.

Just fuck prostitutes while you are young and you will stop putting women on a pedestal.

Salziger_Stein_420 · 2024-01-14T15:20:56+00:00

There's a difference between being a genuinely nice guy and being an insecure people pleaser.

People will notice if you just always tell them what they want to hear.

I think being authentic, masculine (sports and weight loss) and confindent while letting people know you boundaries makes you way more attractive. Not just on a romantic level, but also as a friend. Be yourself - and if you don't like "yourself" now, work on it, but be yourself.

You just have to imagine having a friend that always tells you exactly what you want to hear, don't you get somewhat skeptical what their real intentions are and how they really think of you? People will notice it's not genuine and people will not think of you as a "nice guy".

I think so called bad guys just take this approach to the extreme, with literally not giving a single fuck what other people think about them. When combinend with physical attractivness this should work for getting hookups, but if you're ugly and an asshole you also won't get girls.

Embarrassed_Video283 · 2024-01-14T22:09:17+00:00

stop caring so much

EsotericRonin · 2024-01-15T04:30:55+00:00

This may be the most misguided post ive ever seen.

Women don't want a guy who necessarily dominates other people or is cocky and has a superiority complex. They also aren't turned off by altruism, good morals and cooperative behavior.

All you have to do is understand is that confidence is the most important personality trait when it comes to not only attracting a mate, but friends and people in general. That's it. Confidence. You don't have to be a cocky asshole to be confident.

Sidebar; the average cocky asshole isn't pulling like that. If you equalize for everything else, on average the more confident man is going to be more successful. Your post was on the cusp of understanding this crucial point; the asshole you're describing is usually just more confident. The soyboy you're describing is usually less confident.

You also don't have to be an asshole to be able to playfully tease, playful teasing is a great way to flirt with people in general and make them more attracted to you as a person. It just shows you're not an ass-kisser.

True confidence comes from building yourself up physically and mentally. Some people are just naturally confident and or delusional to an extent and that works for them, like professional or would be professional athletes. Actually, a lot of successful people have said that it takes a level of delusion to get to the level of success they reached.

But if you don't have that innate delusion then i would say; get really good at things, it can be 1 or 2 things. But get really good at them to the point where you can speak at length and passionately and authoritatively about them. Practice mindfulness, good physical and mental habits such as goin to the gym, eating properly, getting sleep etc. Understand and repeat that no matter what happens, no matter who doesn't like you, who may reject you, it doesn't matter, you'll be alright. I've always had this mentality but even it helps me to repeat it when im in a situation that requires confidence.

Kagenikakushiteru · 2024-01-14T13:20:26+00:00

I had 3 days this week. First date, I took girl to dinner and over some red wine we talked about sex. I asked her if she had a choice between being used or using a guy, what's more exciting. She told me being used is more fun. I asked her if she had guys she'd hang out with but never give them anything sexually. She said yea, she even sleeps in same beds with them, go party, but never do anything. She basically said they were betas. Then she said she's the beta of other guys too. Anyway I took her back and banged her several times.

Next day I went out with a friend who I used to flirt with, more neutral and I didn't press on these topics but we talked sex at cocktails. i then took her back and got a blow job from her but she didn't want to have sex.

Yesterday I went on my third date, hit 2 cocktail bars, made out at end of last one. Went back and she only wanted to give me a hand job which I didn't care as I was tired from previous two dates anyway. On third date I told her it'd be interesting to try being a submissive.

So what's the trend? The trend is the more nice and submissive I went, the further I went from sex. First date the girl openly admit she'd string other guys along but because i was rough with her I got her on her knees moment we were back.

To paint another one, I have a few friends who I use as sex partners, but they love being led. I have another friend who I actually liked many years ago, we still hang out heaps at bars til like 7 in the morning every 2 weeks, but we never get anywhere sexually. I remotely remembered last month we were so drunk she kissed me once thinking I wouldn't remember which I hardly did. Again, same issue. When I dgaf and treat the girls worse, they become toys. When I treat them as a friend who I uesd to have a crush on, we just hang out.

bread93096 · 2024-01-14T23:22:36+00:00

Being prosocial and altruistic doesn’t make you a good person, because human society itself is not moral or admirable. The reason people (men and women) like ‘assholes’ is because they’re antisocial enough to resist the social conditioning which turns most men into castrated, ‘cooperative’, lab rats. Even if these men might be borderline sociopathic, that’s preferable to someone who will bend over backwards to follow the rules of a society which does not give a single fuck about him - a society which is rapidly destroying the natural world, putting millions into prison, and creating a culture so toxic that before long the majority of adults will need psychological medication to endure it.

Being a prosocial ‘nice guy’ in this environment confers exactly zero moral value upon you, because all you really are is a rule follower in a profoundly sick and dystopian system. So, step one to becoming less of a nice guy is to accept that you act like a ‘good boy’ out of fear, not genuine moral conscience. Making people uncomfortable is not wrong. If refusing to follow the rules makes other people unhappy, that’s their problem, not yours. Life is not an easy or comfortable experience for anyone. You have to accept that you being your authentic self will occasionally cause distress to others, and that this is their fault, not yours.

one_time_animal · 2024-01-15T09:25:51+00:00

Girls only act that way towards attractive guys or beta orbiters that they've established that non-sexual relationship with and they just love acting performative for friends and the audience about look how fun we are or whatever the fuck the driver is there.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-01-15T15:53:33+00:00

Stop giving so many fucks to people who don’t deserve them.

The 2/3rds rule.

obviousredflag · 2024-01-16T13:07:27+00:00

Nice guys don't have issues in dating. It's nice guys who lack bad boy qualities who have problems. Nice guy and bad boy are not opposite ends of the same spectrum. They are their own spectrums. Women want men who are nice guys AND bad boys.

Look at this graphic that illustrates it. 0% bad boy qualities puts a man into "ghost" (not noticed as romantic or sexual partner) at worst, and friendzone at best, territory. Those are the men who have problems in dating. Being more or less on that spectrum doesn't change their situation. They need to improve on the bad boy axis of the chart.

And for everyone for whom this looks not trustworthy enough, it's basically the concept of dual strategies of women in mating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_strategies_theory

<image>

(more detailed info on what can increase the bad boy score: here )

indigo_pirate · 2024-01-16T21:40:25+00:00

The female fantasy is someone coming along and making things exciting.

They want someone different than the mundane greyness of life to lift them up and make them feel alive.

Many ways of achieving that in both healthy and toxic ways but ultimately I think that’s what it’s all about.

WhaleBiologistCILISI · 2024-01-16T22:52:46+00:00

Get in a relationship trying to be one, see how much easier it actually was, proceed with this new normal. Initially very hard, cause you gotta attract a girl, but afterwards just a rinse and repeat thing with some minor changes thrown in if you so desire.

Normal-Juice796 · 2024-01-20T03:24:02+00:00

Ewww. No. It’s usually naive and low self esteem women who go for assholes it stroked that childhood trauma and toxic attachment. As for me nothing makes me drier then an dude like this. There’s nothing I love more then a sweet guy.

Title	How can a "nice guy" truly become a cocky, playful asshole ("bad boy")?
Author	FeignRetreat
Upvotes	12
Comments	69
Date	January 14, 2024 4:32 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1967enn/how_can_a_nice_guy_truly_become_a_cocky_playful/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-can-a-nice-guy-truly-become-a-cocky-playful.1242940 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242940

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