[deleted by user]

Competitive-Bill-612 · 2022-10-10T06:34:47+00:00

Not a fan of putting working on yourself before trying to get women. There is no horse before the cart situation here. I find guys who do that are mainly stalling from doing the actual work of getting women. Sure go to the gym, grind, hobbies but you can do both at the same time: getting women and working on yourself. They don’t both have to exist in a different vacuum.

Ordinary_Yam1866 · 2022-10-10T07:02:40+00:00

Actually it's good advice if it's not misinterpreted. Working on yourself means working on the thing you lack, otherwise you wouldn't really need to work on that, would you?

Optimal_Butterfly_97 · 2022-10-10T05:26:12+00:00

Disagree to certain degree and isnt working on social skills, working on yourself lol.

thefilmdoc · 2022-10-10T07:48:13+00:00

Bro who tf is going monk mode until they’re 38 😂. One year max and sustain good habits.

ice_jj · 2022-10-10T06:08:07+00:00

Since when does work on yourself only mean getting jacked, getting money and having status?! What planet do you live on lol. Technically talking to girls and practicing social skills can be considered ‘working on yourself’ too. It all depends on what definition you wanna use.

For me working on yourself means having healthy relationships, healthy self esteem, setting/achieving goals and being a good person. You’re too focused on external things, true self improvement comes from within. Then the girls will come naturally.

AsleepFondant · 2022-10-10T09:45:19+00:00

Social skills is 100% the most important thing. I'm 6"2 in great shape(work out 4 times a week), great sense of fashion, hygienic and I'm still a virgin probably due to my poor social skills.

Oglow100 · 2022-10-10T08:04:48+00:00

The way this advice has helped me is that it has helped me stop neediness because I'm no longer seeing women as the cure to my problems. Working on myself means girls aren't on a pedestal anymore and I'm able to flirt and build connections with them more easily than when im obsessed with them.

neversleeps212 · 2022-10-10T07:16:56+00:00

I think the issue is somewhat more nuanced than this. First, I have yet to see anyone say that you need to work on yourself for years as opposed to say a few months. Second, I think the advice has to be somewhat individualized. If you suffer from severe social anxiety and/or have issues that require therapy, telling someone to just go talk to women likely won’t work.

As an analogy, let’s imagine that you want to become a great baseball player but your absolute awful at hitting a baseball. You have zero hand eye coordination, you’re so weak that any of the few times you make contact it’s a weak grounder, and you have no ability to judge where a ball is going or how fast it is. Should you spend your limited free time only in the batting cage trying to do the thing you suck at? Or might you benefit from some time focusing primarily on your peripheral weaknesses (lack of hand-eye coordination and lack of strength)? If you look at great athletes they do all sorts of cross training and fitness regimes to strengthen their physical and mental abilities versus focusing exclusively on their main athletic skill. The same thing applies here. To have success with women you need a baseline level of social skill, personal confidence, and physical attractiveness. You don’t need to spend years reaching the pinnacle of any of those things but you have to establish a certain minimum baseline or you’re just wasting your own time.

Hyphalex · 2022-10-10T19:24:24+00:00

Monk mode is literal social darwinism at work. Once the social atrophy sets in you're in for a rough ride trying to meet people again

Preach monk mode if you're a scam artist or trying to steal his future girl

zertsetzung · 2022-10-10T12:07:41+00:00

Nah.

This shit isnt binary. You need to be working on yourself and learning to socialize and talk to women.

mitch_smc · 2022-10-10T09:11:33+00:00

It's a chicken and the egg thing.

I focused on my career and education early on in life. Well, I partied hard too until about 21 / 22 (18 is the legal drinking age here). I had a fair bit of social anxiety, but that's because I was still maturing.

I think working on yourself can mean a range of things. I probably didn't really come out of my shell and get confidence until I was in my late 20's / early 30's. I was more educated and knew what I wanted in women more. Sure I dated a fair bit when I was younger, but I didn't know what I wanted in a woman.

Now that I'm 34, I have a fair idea what I'm looking for, but every person is still different and I still want to find out more about myself. I'm confident enough that I talk with anyone who crosses my path and try to build a rapport with them, I don't think I could had done that if I didn't work on myself first. But I don't go 'chasing' women for the sake of chasing women, I get on with my day of doing whatever I was doing and if I see a woman that catches my eye, then I'll approach her - I'm not going to play a numbers game like a lot of men do, I think that's just disrespectful.

I don't judge anyone, I talk to people of all ages, I build relationships, and I'm respectful. This all came from working on myself and taking a holistic view of the world. I would had been too immature in my early to mid 20's, and this is something that is different from male to male depending on their environment.

dzoya1266 · 2022-10-10T12:23:38+00:00

They should be working on themselves regardless of their situation with women. They don't need to go monk mode but they can work on themselves and still interact with women. That's a universal advice for people with low self esteem

vandaalen · 2022-10-10T13:13:03+00:00

People throw around the term "monk mode" and don't even know what it actually means.

It's not meant to go celibate for an indefinate time until "you are better".

Let aside most guys who chose to do it that way are actually incels and would not need to make that decision, it is meant in the sense, that you go monk mode until you have reached a very specific goal in a set time frame.

https://illimitablemen.com/2014/04/13/monk-mode/

As a man you should thrive to become a better version of yourself all the time anyway and not just until you reach xyz. Goals should only be a subset of the one unreachable goal: I want to be the best version of myself I can possibly be.

Dorsiflexionkey · 2022-10-10T15:26:56+00:00

Respectfully disagree, OP.

Main reason is because you're assuming that "working on yourself" means you have to be a recluse. I give this advice all the time and all it means is that most of these young kids have not idea what they want in life, have no job, no hobbies, no drive, no dreams, no car, no money and they wonder why a woman doesn't want to be with them. Then they say "Oh but why do I need to provide something?" Because you're wanting her to provide good looks or loyalty, that is her sacrifice so you need to make one too.

Anyway, I think you're wrong OP. Because working on yourself doesn't mean you have to go monk mode, it just means you need to wake the fuck up and realise that you need to fix the issues then and there. In fact, trying to talk your way around it or avoid it because you think game is going to fix everything leaves you at BEST the fat ugly, annoying guy who gets a gf but looks like shit and just is a bad person. Why not be the guy who gets the girl, gets the health/wealth and lives out his dreams?

In fact, even though I specifically said that "work on yourself" does not mean monk mode, I'd say that at least a temporary monk mode is better than spinning your wheels being a loser wondering for 20 years why nobody wants to date you.

aviator122 · 2022-10-10T16:07:49+00:00

I agree it’s also terrible advice. It’s not like they are mutually exclusive. Learning to talk to women is part of the process of self development. You don’t need to go to the gym for years before learning to have a decent conversation. Do all the self improvement together and that will make everything you do better. That’s why I think hamza and other YouTubers get this kinda stuff wrong. Categorizing everyone as a loser because they don’t make lots of money or have a 6 pack is the stupidest thing I’ve ever. There’s a documentary of a homeless man who would get food and shelter because he could get laid every night with random women he approached

suuperfli · 2022-10-10T18:16:57+00:00

working on yourself means working on your weaknesses, which includes social skills

better to work on yourself while young instead of settling into a sub par relationship

RastaPilot737 · 2022-10-10T18:26:23+00:00

Yeah, but I think many guys forget to pay attention to themselves, and make the girl in question their world.

2022-10-10T22:12:04+00:00

Working on yourself means getting mental exercise. Get rid of your cognitive distortions and practice self compassion to become your best self

HapMeme · 2022-10-10T08:48:25+00:00

I look decent,tall (1,82),in to fashion, and now go to the gym to be slightly buffet but in general I'm skiny whit slight muscle, I still suck cuz 0 social skills so ye I think that's the most important thing.

2022-10-10T11:41:09+00:00

You can walk and chew gum at the same time

python834 · 2022-10-10T05:36:57+00:00

It isnt non sense that hot early 20s women will want you for being a multi millionaire.

MrCrypt0_0 · 2022-10-10T10:53:30+00:00

Both are important. One thing I’ve experienced first hand is when you improve your socio economic status , the game becomes easier. You’re more fun to talk to because you’ve experienced more in life. You’re generally a more developed man.

Will_Block03 · 2022-10-10T10:59:37+00:00

Monk mode for a year or two max never hurt anyone

rangamatchstick · 2022-10-10T11:24:05+00:00

Why not do both at the same time, these two areas compliment eachother.

NPC1990 · 2022-10-10T12:21:46+00:00

You can work on yourself and still go after women. Just don’t prioritize them over your goals.

YoungStarchild · 2022-10-10T14:50:33+00:00

If you live in the US there is a social urge for you to be of high status. Woman are looking for that in most of their potential suitors. Most of the time if you’re young and inexperienced, money will save you and help you get into the dating scene. I’m guessing it’s a healthy mix of both. In the U.S. we’ve perpetuated a necessity for a high value lifestyle and anything less is seen as a mediocre and failed life. The dating scene is ruined in the U.S and while most young men would benefit from a good amount of rejections most young men won’t take it. When you’re being told that you need to be the best and you’re constantly told you’re not good enough you tend to become resentful. Getting money and becoming successful just seems like the best way of securing a mate. End rant.

SunroomApp · 2022-10-10T18:41:13+00:00

I really don't think anyone is saying that! The advice of focusing and working on yourself isn't about going 'monk mode' it's about putting your awareness and energy into things that are fulfilling and bring you joy. When you follow a path that brings you joy, women, sex, girlfriends, learning social skills – that all follows in a way that is much more healthy than if you pursued women and sex as it's own journey.

being your best self, finding joy, that's how you attract the kind of women that will add something meaningful. Even if it's just good sex! Not by pursuing women as a general idea and a "end game" on its own. Thats how you build resentment.

James_Cruse · 2022-10-10T08:25:07+00:00

Yeah I agree with this.

Alot of guys are saying that people should “put in the work” before cold approaching women consistantly or building their social circle etc.

This is so silly. Everyone here should have been approaching, dating and sleeping with women since puberty.

You should have a confident mindset of “I’m enough for any woman I approach”

Working on yourself at the same time is a long term goal. Confidence and drawing your state from inside yourself and being internally referenced are decisions you make moment to moment and can be done RIGHT NOW.

Blxck_soccrates · 2022-10-10T16:36:26+00:00

You're going to do all of it though. Or at least, you should. It's not hard to make yourself attractive.

I had an interesting convo with a lady friend last night, and she told me what her desires in a guy are.

It's gonna SHOCK you.

Ready? A guy who showers, takes care of himself, does his own laundry, listens and isn't a pushy creep, but is still sure of himself and what he stands for.

When I asked her if she wanted a guy who works out regularly, in shape, well groomed, well dressed, has interesting hobbies, charismatic (read: social skills) and is intelligent with a drive for a good life, you know what she told me?

It's unrealistic. Most men aren't doing these things.

The bar is in hell guys.

I do all of the above. I do MMA, I read 1-2 productive books a week. I try and be a positive force of good on earth and a generally kind, compassionate and giving person. I'm decently intelligent and I try and make myself a friend to everyone.

I was told, that these things, which I assumed were basic things everybody does, is rare.

It's not enough for you to have social skills if you're not working on the other things.

Better yourself on all avenues. Talk to strangers. Hit the gym 3-5 days a week. Clean up your diet. Take a shower, put on some cologne. Read a book that will help you better yourself in some way each week. Step outside of your comfort zone. This is how you build confidence, and in turn, a better you.

I could give some examples if you guys want

CaptainSaveBPD · 2022-10-10T11:06:44+00:00

no one normal ever needs to just "work on yourself bro" if you're already searching things like this up on the internet you're probably already too far gone. Normal people meet women at high school, have relationships and just normally grow through life and have different relationships.

brutal truth.

Mechanik_J · 2022-10-11T00:02:06+00:00

That's not the point of "work on yourself". The point of "work on yourself" is because pussy gets boring. Once you've touched a woman, you've touched most. Then you have to deal with the boring and nagging person the body belongs to. You'll also have to deal with the fact that women only want you for what you can provide. Women don't actually like or need men.

When you're a millionaire women won't want you, but you can buy them, or use who you are as leverage like Leo Dicaprio.

Now if you're trying to create lust between you and a woman, I agree with you. But lust is fleeting. Just look at Tom Brady and Gisele.

cllick · 2022-10-13T21:55:10+00:00

interesting. I went to college with the intention of getting better at socializing and flirting since I was a home body AP student in high school.

Because of covid, I didn't get far in that, but I wish I took that time to work on myself a lot more. Like I got better at surfing and got into the gym routine. I cooked a lot, figured out how to dress myself, etc. But I was still hella slacking in school and couldn't get myself to do anything I "didn't want to do". I was still watching a lot of youtube and netflix and scrolling through ig and tik tok.

I'm actually on monk mode now, but I regret not doing it sooner. Maybe it was just a process that took time. I think I could've been in a good place to pipe a girl by now if I did, but I also grew a lot of confidence from my new friend group this year.

sinhaanip · 2022-10-10T10:29:41+00:00

If the objective is to get girls quick, - work on game ( how to approach, openers, body language, confidence, frame control, even text game, DiCarlo escalation etc ) - working on yourself (fitness, manners and etiquette, personality, grooming etc ) have a long term impact - slow and consistent positive results.

So work on both !

2022-10-10T11:36:49+00:00

Lol you say it’s bad advice but give the same advice

2022-10-10T12:42:29+00:00

bro nobody says that shit lmao

TheRealestBiz · 2022-10-10T13:49:12+00:00

It’s absolutely terrible advice. This stuff is all an experiential skill. You can’t learn not doing it.

2022-10-10T15:59:55+00:00

Yeah dont work on yourself , young men. Just give up

2022-10-10T18:23:38+00:00

Yep working on yourself means nothing if you don’t know how to flirt or attract. Monk mode is for those who can’t flirt and attract. Essentially forces you trash and desire or focus on women and dating. No more rejection and the emotions that come with failing in subject that’s just not for you.

ciaobellapgh · 2022-10-10T18:39:40+00:00

based

norwegianmorningw00d · 2022-10-10T19:02:03+00:00

The cringiest shit ever is those IG/ Twitter posts that say: “go ghost for 6 months. Ignore all people. Only work on gym, learning new skill, etc.”

Dogo_Design · 2022-10-10T14:12:39+00:00

When you’re 38 you shouldn’t be going for 21 year olds.

TheTruth221 · 2022-10-10T10:07:35+00:00

can just wear flip flop and a shirt with stains on it

females is all about game

BestAdviceYouCanHave · 2022-10-10T16:07:12+00:00

I agree… learning to socialise is #1 … of course followed by a decent paying job and some fun hobbies. You’ll be set.

MentalCelOmega · 2022-10-11T01:29:45+00:00

Absolutely agree. Here is a harsh truth for anyone listening. People don't change. You can try to change all you want, but you cannot overcome the societal gatekeepers, your nature, and your fate.

Relevant_Ad_9242 · 2022-10-10T08:59:00+00:00

I honestely don’t know what the true answer is to this question. Because both make sense. Work on yourself makes sense because you want to actually have something of value to offer. But approach them now makes sense too because if you can’t charm/socialize with them and/or escalate in the right moments you won’t have luck either

2022-10-10T13:22:09+00:00

Isn't it the obvious truth? Who even thought you need to ignore the girls in your young life? I mean, I barely had any experience with girls in my teenage years, but not because I intentionally ignored them, just cowardness I guess

leetcoder217 · 2022-10-10T14:49:05+00:00

very very practical.. and true

SnooHesitations4922 · 2022-10-10T15:01:14+00:00

Working on one's self is very important, but it can sidetrack a person from learning to be good with women. Getting jacked and building a bank account is long term, so it's important to get good at flirting short term. Chad chasers want the guy that already crossed the finish line, a decent woman will run the marathon with you as you both grow and advance

ftdrain · 2022-10-10T15:08:09+00:00

Monk mode is completely fine if it doesnt fuck up your mental health and you actually use the time to improve instead of masturbating and playing video games, you can grow by leaps and bounds if you use the time you have somewhat efficiently

2022-10-10T16:08:55+00:00

Monk mode is a personal choice, it's not a requirement. It's better done in short bursts to achieve a specific goal (i.e. cutting for a couple months, studying for a big exam or certification, working on a specific project, working an extra job on the side to save more $$$ for a big trip or purchase).

Obvious downside to monk mode is it does nothing to develop social skills and flirting skills.

I only went "monk mode" during times where I felt that chasing women would be a distraction to a specific goal I wanted to achieve. Once I achieved what I wanted I saw no point in continuing it for years.

All in all it's not a bad thing to do once in a while, but it's absolutely not necessary to go full monk mode for years in my opinion.

Improving your social and dating skills is part of working on yourself.

kakaru47809 · 2022-10-10T16:10:13+00:00

Dude. When you are working on yourself, social skills should come with it. I understand what most advice is saying. They're telling you to stay in solitude and leave the girls alone, but when you are working on yourself, you should be working on yourself physically, mentally, spiritually, financially, environmentally, emotionally, socially, and sexually. That's how I view "work on yourself", and that's how most people should view it.

Kronuk · 2022-10-10T16:32:58+00:00

Aka it’s all about balance. Keep a growth mindset in all aspects of your life. Social, health, wealth. If you’re going to be working hard during the week then go out, socialize, and meet women on the weekends. It’s not rocket science.

lessfriends · 2022-10-10T16:37:33+00:00

Even if I struggle with balding, acne and trying to lose some weight? I think all the rejections will just make me feel miserable lol.

useless27118 · 2022-10-10T17:51:02+00:00

Worked on myself for 20 years still ugly short bald and forever rejected

epimpstyle · 2022-10-10T18:53:16+00:00

It's full of all kinds of advice here, everyone knows all kinds of theories but which of you is actually going out and pick up girls ?

ripolatu · 2022-10-10T19:20:30+00:00

I mean, there are more important things than girls so not a bad advice actually lol

mishaxz · 2022-10-10T19:50:24+00:00

Never take advice from anybody who ends the advice with the word "bro"

Carrabs · 2022-10-10T19:51:33+00:00

Working on yourself = work on talking to girls imo. That’s how I interpreted it anyways

imnotyoursavior · 2022-10-10T20:01:33+00:00

Apparently some things need to be spelled out

Robofrogg1 · 2022-10-10T20:16:06+00:00

Working on your social skills is part of ‘working on yourself.’

Videogamesarereel · 2022-10-10T20:52:09+00:00

Yes, the whole "don't date and acquire currency" thing is literally a lifetime worth of bad advice.

Not even accounting for the fact that is hard to get rich, and broke men get laid all the time, even if you become a millionaire, it doesn't happen overnight. so you'll be some old rich guy who still can't hold a conversation with a woman.

No one's saying don't work on success of course, but telling a guy to try to become the perfect man on paper is just setting them up for complete failure

supersoy1 · 2022-10-10T21:01:40+00:00

I agree, but I think at the very least you should be able to pay your own bills. Stop trying to date attractive women if you still live with your parents.

Rchlmnzr15 · 2022-10-10T21:18:04+00:00

I think you’re misinterpreting work on yourself to mean physically improve your appearance to match male beauty standards. The advice I would give to young men is to work on your ability to gain confidence without outside validation of romantic partners. If you’re a fully functional human who values yourself your chances of finding a meaningful romantic connection do increase. No amount of flirt training can prepare you for an actual relationship.

demonspawn9 · 2022-10-10T21:27:53+00:00

Mentors and role models are what's needed. A positive male influence to show them the ropes, is what's missing in the first place.

mitchtheman_ · 2022-10-11T00:45:57+00:00

Definitely not, but for a young dude the worst advise you can give him is to focus on women and how to flirt, there’s a lot that life itself offers and infinite things you can absorbe from it, why waste your mind, feelings, thoughts and time on just woman???? People this days overrate sex and base their whole life and decisions on how to be sexually active. So no, work on yourself, not for women, not cause eventually in a future hot girls will like you, fuck all that, do it cause you’re main purpose in life should be to grow and become you’re best version, no matter how much sex you have.

cormacru999 · 2022-10-11T01:44:55+00:00

Its interesting that your issue is that you think work on yourself only means money, physical fitness & the nebulous "high status" & so you're here to tell men that they need to work on social skills & flirting skills.

Anyone with any sense understands that working on yourself includes social skills, learning how to communicate well, carrying a conversation, etc. They aren't separate from each other, there are just different parts of self work. I get that you're trying to say that money or a rich car won't suddenly make you capable, but its a little weird that you think they should have a hard separation between the 2 sets of advice.

And then, there's the actual reality that most of what young men think is successful conversation & flirting tends to be such a mess. You're entirely focused on getting a woman to date or hook up but often the social skills that men don't put much focus on is healthy relationships. They tend to force any woman they hook up with to meet all of their social needs, as opposed to becoming friends, with men & women, working out what kind of life they want to lead, how to have good family relationships, how to be a good neighbor, etc, & if a man focuses on building himself a good life, the romance part is easy. But they focus on getting the woman & then can't maintain it because they overwhelmed her with their needs, or are so fragile they can't handle that she has other relationships besides the one with him.

nissan-S15 · 2022-10-11T03:10:31+00:00

disagree work on yourself it simply works L

Chaosr21 · 2022-10-11T03:48:38+00:00

I agree. All I've done is work on myself and I'm almost 30. I haven't been in a serious relationship in 6 years

playboiferina · 2022-10-11T11:44:22+00:00

Finally the truth. Am 24 and did this since the pandemic until a little while ago and it wasn’t worth it at all. At this age our social proof and status should be priority and that’s by interacting with people and women alike. Meeting other people at other stages/ages of our lives is gonna be extremely difficult, there is no other time but now.

skeptic234234 · 2022-10-11T19:13:40+00:00

I'm almost millionaire at 38 and I highly recommend this advice. I went monk mode for 12 years. Time I can never get back. Also It doesn't take much time to practice pick up, maybe 30m per day?

Dormammu777 · 2022-10-12T08:06:51+00:00

Right, but to me, "working on myself" meant social skills, plus cognitive skills and emotional control, diet, health, career planning or at least getting solidfied goals, and also finding other means by which to understand ones true strengths and weaknesses. But at the same time, other men DO take it to mean everything I mentioned minus actually speaking with women. And you're right, I did stall in that arena for awhile.

CryptographerDue7488 · 2022-10-14T00:19:41+00:00

Learn to talk to people so you can feel confident speaking....you'll ither get a girl or a friend ither way you win.....don't go into it with an intent. .just to talk....and practice being witty.....the path to women's soul is thru her ears first....looks and money comes second and third to this....

That's it...

My dad 78 and can pick up more girls then me...(he's broke btw) his lip game is out of this world...will have a girl laughing and talking like if they knew him....

thestanimal86 · 2022-10-29T15:36:12+00:00

Having lost 60 lbs right out of highschool and dating dozens of girls my first year of college i have to disagree. Working on yourself is great advice.

Going monk mode isn't working on yourself. Don't tell yourself "I'll start talking to girls when i have a 6 pack and $10,000 in the bank." That's creative avoidance. Working on yourself means getting out of your comfort zone and talking to girls.

Title	[deleted by user]
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	594
Comments	131
Date	October 10, 2022 4:51 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/y05trr/work_on_yourself_bro_is_actually_bad_advice_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/deleted-by-user.1248611 https://theredarchive.com/post/1248611

Comments