Virgins are demonised, yet apparently most men can't get laid?

DanksOutForMemes · 2019-03-11T12:16:55+00:00

I'm a 23 year old fat neckbeard who looks like a hobo and I get more pussy than a humane society.

My name is Post Malone

CarosWolf · 2019-03-11T09:37:40+00:00

This will sound... weak?, but I don't just want sex, I really want a good and stable relationship, not just one night stands, and it's really hard to trust others and love them for who they are, not just because we would like to f*ck them

Sex is a bit overrated, a supportive and lovely person in your life is not

Yeah, I also say this because I'm too proud to give girls what the want, why would I?, It's not worth changing yourself just to please someone else, and even less if you only want sex

Either all that or I'm ugly af, (or perhaps all that+this?)

BurnItDownSR · 2019-03-11T14:10:00+00:00

Maybe you're not as charming as you think.

Funkydirigidoo · 2019-03-11T10:03:37+00:00

> to get laid with any sort of regularity I have to drop my standards to like 3 or 4's, chubby girls or older women like over 35

I'm half as competitive as you, so this isn't meant as a criticism, more as an intellectual exercise:

A lot of frustrated men say it's harder than ever to find a girlfriend because the inequality gap in dating has risen. Look up work on the gini coefficient of Tinder.

On the other hand, maybe men's standards have risen too, since we're all on our phones nowadays, exposed to media where people are optimized for appearance? If we view media less frequently, we learn to evaluate people in real life, who are less attractive?

Conversely, an increasing proportion of women in the developed world are also overweight, so maybe a good woman is harder to find.

Poopybutt22 · 2019-03-11T10:14:52+00:00

I'm a good looking guy, fit, muscular, well educated and affable and charming. Yet I get laid once in a blue moon

A lot lot lot lot lot of people on tinder overestimate how attractive they are. See people here claim they are buff attractive tall and then show themselves on /r/Rateme and.. yikes.

__Kevin__ · 2019-03-11T13:08:17+00:00

There’s a whole lot of pain in this thread.

Women fuck. They might not fuck you, they might not fuck me, but they’re fucking someone.

If you’re not getting sex from the women you want to fuck, it’s because you need to work on something. Listen to the feedback from the universe.

Cold approach is the best testing ground, IMO. If you can walk up to a girl randomly, strike up a conversation, and build attraction, you know you’re got game.

Friskyseal · 2019-03-11T09:58:10+00:00

I think it's individuals being unable to see outside their own situations. A lack of empathy or imagination. Most girls have guys constantly hitting on them and can basically sleep with anyone they want, so they assume its the same for hot (or otherwise attractive) guys. Guys that aren't so hot assume that the reason they can't get laid is because they aren't hot, and can't imagine it still being the case if they improve whatever it is they're currently fixated on. Or they just give up and pursue other things.

As for what can be done about it...I don't think there is really anything except to do what you're doing, which is being really honest with the people you interact with. Just put in the work and keep trying. From what I gather (and I could be and really hope I am wrong), the really successful "players" and PUAs have a much wider range of standards and are willing to pursue opportunities that I personally wouldn't be interested in. I would much rather jerk off to porn than hook up with a girl that is interested in me but whom I do not find attractive. But to be fair to those guys, because they are open to more opportunities they probably get more hot girls as well.

One thing I think can be done: Eventually someone will make a better dating app. The current iterations are absolutely terrible. There has to be a way to incentivize guys to work on themselves and girls to not be so damn flaky.

n00b_f00 · 2019-03-11T10:27:22+00:00

I think the virgins suck thing is more like an older sorta trope, something I heard in high school, and something I hear people complaining about on here. I dont really hear about it in real life much, except some people not understanding how someone could be a virgin into their 20s. Not as haters, but mostly as a comment from attractive women.

livear · 2019-03-11T13:26:38+00:00

Sex is great but it’s no the be all to end all.

Cybralisk · 2019-03-11T09:06:45+00:00

I can believe it, I'm fairly good looking, tall, semi-muscular and to get laid with any sort of regularity I have to drop my standards to like 3 or 4's, chubby girls or older women like over 35. Holding out for an attractive girl to bang? I really would be waiting a while.

So I can def see the more average looking guys or below average guys really having trouble.

plaze6288 · 2019-03-11T14:00:39+00:00

Male here, good looking ( receive compliments from strangers on style, hair, eyes all the time) and its been years for me. I don't leave my house for anything other than work though so that's my issue

DadOnDabs · 2019-03-11T17:37:01+00:00

Most men don't try. Most guys that say they have approached, made online dating profiles, or "have tried it all", simply haven't.

They will approach 5-10 times and quit. They'll slap some shitty selfies on a dating app and hope for the best.

The key is the work you put in. Examples being; hitting the gym, getting photographer quality photos, and approaching 5-10x a day.

These are just a few examples but you get it.

RicktatorshipRulez · 2019-03-11T20:29:39+00:00

I know for a fact that, although I've had relationships in the past (some without even really putting myself out there and trying) I feel as though it's not so much looks, but my personality that I need to work on.

I'm more introverted, cynical (which makes me grumpy most of the time) and more or less in my own head about things, which makes me both less approachable and appear a bit odd to people on the outside looking in.

Sometimes, I really do think how you are personality wise shines through a lot more than you may realize. I think people need to just evaluate and be more honest with themselves and really how they're perceived.

TheJoeyJoeJoe · 2019-03-11T16:37:00+00:00

Firstly, I don't think virgins are demonised. Creepy, sociopath virgins are.

And rightly so...

Society doesn't need these people breeding...

Perhaps what you mean to say is that virgins are mocked for being socially inept...Yet (as you point out), they're not that much more inept than the average guy who statistically sleeps with only 7 women in his lifetime. Perhaps these guys all deserve mocking too.

(To be fair, they are mocked as 'chodes' by members of the PUA community who actually get laid with regularity).

Anyway, you mention being good-looking and insinuate that you should get laid more often because of this...

You then complain that you have "seemingly no control" over when you get laid.

For these reasons I've created this list. Maybe it'll help you (and others reading)

Reasons that most men don't get laid (that are nothing to do with their looks)

They don't approach enough.
When they do, they approach in an unconfident way, as if they're expecting to be rejected.
They take the first and smallest sign of disinterest as a rejection and bail on the set.
They get super-drunk and do stupid shit (or become too apathetic to pull).
They have no idea how to deal with a woman's classic objections (shit tests, anti-slut defence etc)
They have no idea how to structure a pull in a way that doesn't make a girl look and feel slutty.
They swap numbers instead then send shitty unoriginal texts, which get lost in the swathes of messages that beautiful girls get.

Ok ok this list could have gone on forever. The point is most guys aren't confident enough to get laid, and a lot of those who are have no idea how to structure a pull. (Inner game and outer game).

The best way to "get a nice girlfriend" is to fix these two things. With these skills in your arsenal, you'll no longer have "seemingly no control". Without them, you're essentially throwing away hundreds of women who could have been that special person in your life.

As a final point, don't shit on the idea of casual sex until you've had a gorgeous athletic bent over begging for you to fuck her...

qingxi11 · 2019-03-11T14:07:29+00:00

I'm not sure "demonizing" is the right word, but I agree with the general point you are getting at. I don't think it is a secret that media does not show us how people are, but how most of us want to be. The most primitive forms of media fulfill (and create) wishes of how we want life to be like and nothing else. So the lead characters in your average action flick are now male body-builders with incredibly witty one-liners and models throwing themselves at them left and right. Other forms of media still grapple with real people's problems, but male virginity is underrepresented.

But still, the same goes for women. Even tough women's problems get a lot of discussion nowadays, how women are portrayed in media has become even more unrealistic.

StandardIssuePants · 2019-03-11T17:15:43+00:00

Because competition is the natural way of things.

Everyone wants to be better at game, so we admire the masters and steer clear of the amateurs. If you wanted to get better at chess, would you study Magnus Carlsen or watch high school tournaments? The demonisation comes from people choosing who to admire and emulate. If you aren't the guy who gets laid frequently, then you aren't worth admiring, and the opposite of admiration is vilification.

So be a student, not a whiner. Like any skill, seduction requires practice and and study. As long as you make an honest effort to improve, you eventually will, and you can become the man that other people admire and respect. But if you give up and live the jealous life, you will become (or remain), vilified.

robrTdot · 2019-03-11T13:52:50+00:00

At some point in anyone’s life (man or woman) the obsession with “looks” fades, and interest turns to people who will make a good life partner. Personality and suitability become the focus of one’s search. People of all shapes, sizes, colours, creeds become interesting BECAUSE of these attributes, not in spite of them. That’s when life truly becomes interesting. Be open to those you meet - not just the beautiful people!

Nottodaymate · 2019-03-11T11:03:39+00:00

I’m 22 today, muscular and fit and goodlooking according to most girls I know and meet, yet still a virgin and try a variety of things everywhere like Tinder and clubbing, Yet I’ve never gotten laid and I know the reason.

It’s just because I was nice. That’s the truth sometimes. Whenever I was a bit of an asshole and challenging I got in for the kiss. Then I go speak online and utter silence.

I think that Facebook, Instagram etc have really helped some, but in my country if you re not instafamous or used to attend student politics then you re no one and to get laid/dates you have to bust your balls. Also, most girls are on Tinder here to satisfy their egos and get insta followers

Suisuiiidieelol · 2019-03-11T09:50:02+00:00

Idk, I’m 5’7 and I don’t think I’m that attractive (I’ve been told otherwise), a little out of shape too (well now I am, about a year Ago I was pretty in shape)

Most of the girls I had sex with were from tinder, they were around average, because really all I had to do was be myself, and not try to be some kind of player, because a lot of girls on their told me that most guys on there were self absorbed, too weird, pushy or straight up creepy... and they said I was a breath of fresh air.

Anyways over a year I got laid pretty regularly, mainly from fwbs I made and things like that, I hooked up with hotter girls in person, but that usually involves drugs and alcohol... but most of the time they all developed the same way... I was just interested in getting to know them, and being genuine, over like a few hours, a day, weeks... they’re people too you know, try to get your mind around that, girls aren’t some puzzle where you do everything by some playbook and you get what you want.

I have a girlfriend now so I don’t really need to worry about it anymore either. Easiest way to get laid, get a girlfriend. Sex everyday for new relationships, and every once in a while to satisfy your cravings in longer relationships.

BigBeardDaddyK · 2019-03-11T17:19:35+00:00

It has alot to do with game. A lot of men don't actually do anything to try and improve their game and circumstances and complain like a little bitch about not doing well with women.

ZarathustraSpenta · 2019-03-11T18:54:05+00:00

It is of my personal opinion that all men want sex, but some men want to look more civilized so they claim they ONLY want relationship.

BlackPyro · 2019-03-11T18:56:52+00:00

Let break this down

On one hand, male virginity is constantly demonized in social media, movies, TV etc where it is made out the only possible way to still be a virgin is if one is a hermit, severely mentally ill or grossly disfigured.

Yeah, society uses men who aren't exactly top tier as punching bags and laughing stocks. Guess what, fat chicks and ugly chicks don't exactly get love from society either, so it equals out. You want to hear my solution, become a top tier man and understand society will try to force you back into beta male box when you make a move to achieve success.

Yet, I am constantly hearing complaints from guys that they never get laid, to the point where 24 month and up dry spells are not uncommon. They, without becoming unduly obsessive, try a variety of avenues: Tinder, clubbing etc. yet they disparagingly complain that they're just having no luck. They can strike up a conversation, meet a woman, maybe even kiss but getting laid is an exceptional rarity.

I think there are many factors that lead to dry spells. Most guys I see who aren't into the pickup scene rarely do more than 5 approaches in a night, and even then most of the approaches are half-assed and without a trace of sexual intent. I do an average of 25-30 sets every time I go out, and I think even that is low when compared to a place like Vegas where it's even to run 50-100 sets in one night. Bad luck happens to even the best of us, but if you are hitting it hard and improving your inner and outer game, you shouldn't go more than a few weeks without someone being interested. Location matters, so if you are in the middle of nowhere, you should be trying to get the hell out of there.

Tinder/Bumble/Hinge should be a supplement to your game, but there are ways to improve on them like taking high quality pics, writing a good bio, and having good text game (witty, risk taking, and quickly moving towards the meetup within 10 messages. I can help you out with this, so feel free to send a PM.

If the guys you are talking about are atleast getting makeouts, then they have the attraction part down, and it sounds like they're having an issue with sealing the deal. I'd tell them to always make sure logistics work, keep the attraction up, and learn how to handle the friends/AMOG chodes who try to steal the girl away.

I can speak from experience. I'm a good looking guy, fit, muscular, well educated and affable and charming. Yet I get laid once in a blue moon, it is purely a matter of dumb luck and I have seemingly no control over the process whatsoever. Yet I'm attractive and the few people I've told about this situation are dumbfounded.

I'm not doubting you are, but PM me a pic. We all tend to overestimate our attractiveness, so it doesn't hurt to get a 2nd or 3rd opinion. Sounds like the issue is one of inner game. Make sure you carry yourself with pride, talk with confidence. Watch guys like Eric Thomas, Tony Robbins, and Richard Branson in order to learn how charismatic men carry themselves. I would also suggest hiring a vocal coach, get someone to look at your posture and take improv classes, as they will help with your body language and build up your confidence.

This leads me to question this apparent friction between the demonisation of virginity and the complaints that many guys, who seem to be perfectly nice looking, fit, and social just struggle to get laid. This is to say nothing about the obese, balding, gross and fugly guys who exist out there in legions. Why, then, is virginity or involuntary celibacy so demonised if perfectly normal men, a large swathe of them in fact, find it so frustratingly difficult to establish sexual relaionships with others? What are the reasons, and what do we do about this?

This is where having some disregard to society comes into play. Yeah, society does things like shit tests and "beta male shaming" in order to make sure that you don't rise above your station. I wouldn't say it's a conscious decision, but it is what it is.Frankly, I've seen the alot of guys who aren't the best lookers get girls just because they choose to believe that they are high quality and radiate fun and positiveness off, while I go out on the weekends when guys throw $2000 on a table hoping that will help get them girls. The biggest thing that gets girls is fun and emotional spiking, take her on an adventure for Christ's sake. She doesn't want to hear about your bank account, or how much you bench press. Give her fun vibes, and she'll ASK you to take her home.

ThePersonof21 · 2019-03-11T21:36:14+00:00

One minute I read that everyone is having sex left, right and centre. The next minute I read nobody can get laid. I don't know what to believe anymore... Maybe I should get off the internet.

Not_My_Real_Acct_ · 2019-03-11T22:08:27+00:00

I dated online for about ten years. It took a lot of practice and experimentation, but after about five years, I was having sex on the first date about 85% of the time.

In the span of a decade, I lined up two dates in my home city. TWO!!

But when I went on dates outside my city, my success rate was easily 10X as high.

In my opinion, here is why this happens:

Ninety five percent of the people on dating sites are already in relationships. So when you're a dude and you're meeting girls, you're far more likely to have success when there's very very little chance that you have any friends or family in common. Basically, she's cheating, and in order to avoid getting caught, she wants to be REAL sure you don't know any of her acquaintances.

Once you've overcome that hurdle, everything is easier.

I discovered this 'trick' by accident. Basically I went from working in an office to working in a job where I travel 100% of the time. And once I started meeting women on the road, it was like the floodgates just opened up. It just blew my mind that women would hook up ninety minutes after I met them, fully knowing that I lived six hundred miles away. They never even protested for a second about the distance, it wouldn't even come up in conversation.

Smoovemammajamma · 2019-03-11T23:17:06+00:00

Get really depressed to the point of suicide because nothing seems to work and you feel like you failed or are a failure
Realize that life has no inherent point other than the goals you set for yourself, no one is keeping score
You are not your ego, you exist above it; your ego is your impulses and negative thoughts, you are your positive, constructive thoughts. When you realize this, embarrassment cannot occur as you exist above your imperfect animal ego that cares about that and you can see yourself as just another person and laugh it off
Take a leap of faith and don't expect anything from anyone but be positive and optimistic even when you don't want to; At this point I can't really HATE anyone, since no one can really hurt me (me being a awareness that exists above the imperfect physical). At most I'm disappointed and desirous to stop future issues or drama. Life is too short to waste on negative feelings that serve only to harm the one that feels them.
go to classes/find a cool guy party animal who gets laid all the time where you have field days and watch so as to see why he's so successful and integrate it into your personality, filtering out the bad things
Life is Dark Souls

thepuagrinch · 2019-03-11T09:48:47+00:00

It’s not that virgins are demonized as much as no one respects them(female virgins aside). And in the west a lack of respect for your group usually equates I guess now a days to being “demonized”.

confidentgirl · 2019-03-11T12:27:30+00:00

I will say that this is very true.

My partners have told me they've havent had sex in a few months (some one year plus) and I am almost in shock because they are all very good looking.

Of course they could be lying but I doubt it based on the fact that there really wasn't a need to, it wouldn't have changed my decision to go on a date/hang out.

Btw super wholesome comments people. Very nice

PolesWithGoals · 2019-03-11T15:58:15+00:00

I still have my V card and I’m in college lmao

sensestiveMale · 2019-03-11T11:40:50+00:00

Or maybe it's just us seeing things for how they really are.. Few years ago, even getting laid bi-annualy would have raised our spirits because we would have compared ourselves with our immediate social circle only.. But now with the proliferation of online discussions & foreign experiences, we are questioning our reality more.. Not to mention, tinder has skewed the scales so bad.. Dating metrics are probably permanently screwed

Jetty_Boy · 2019-03-11T10:16:18+00:00

I guess it's because we set our standards too high or the ladies we meet aren't the type we want.

From personal experience, it's perfectly normal to be celibate or a virgin. I'm 22. I'm 6'8" and blessed by God with intelligence. I have a lot of female friends and we flirt a lot but sex, that eludes me and I've decided to wait till marriage.

I find my friends get lucky easily and the pressure is there, but dude don't stress it. If it's your decision, uphold it and don't let society make you think there is something wrong with you.

Trowawaycausebanned4 · 2019-03-11T15:09:32+00:00

On the other hand, I’ve been enjoying my time with someone I met online that I didn’t particularly find too attractive. Maybe looks are overrated. I was surprised at how intimate it felt and she always wants dick so that’s good for me lol. All it takes is being a decent guy and the girls that are just like us who are struggling to find someone will come crawling because like another guy said apparently it’s hard to find

Also, I think I’ve gotten better at sex so it’s like good practice

darksidessj25 · 2019-03-11T16:31:38+00:00

What is your behavior like when you talk to a girl? I get lots of courtship signals because of my behavior around women. I always look at them in the eyes and have relaxed body language on top of that.

omegaphallic · 2019-03-11T16:47:22+00:00

Except Priests.

omegaphallic · 2019-03-11T16:50:13+00:00

I pay for sex or masturbate or do erotic spiritual rituals or guided erotic guided meditations, so I have achieved a high level of person choice in my sexuality with dependancy on female human approval.

housebird350 · 2019-03-11T19:48:06+00:00

Demonized?? Really? I might could go with ridiculed but mocked would be the word I would have used.

boss413 · 2019-03-11T20:16:33+00:00

There's a lot to unpack here.

"Incels" are demonized because incels are a community of toxic trolls who think they don't get laid because of a societal conspiracy, instead of the fact that they're narcissistic assholes.
Virgins are ridiculed like any group who are unsuccessful at something. It's bullying, and it's wrong, but "punching down" is something virtually every animal does because it's easy and makes them feel better about themselves.
You're principally describing what the seduction community describes the Average Frustrated Chump (AFC). An AFC feels success with women is something they have no control over, and is therefore a mystery.

The overriding philosophy in this subreddit is that success with women comes with a perceptible set of attributes that take [for most people] conscious effort to acquire. They should be signals of who you are--charismatic, capable, healthy (the major components of Attractiveness to women), and therefore confident.

If you believe you're charismatic, capable, and healthy (<-- Attractive), but you're not having success, you're either not communicating those attributes successfully, or you're not as attractive as you think you are.

If it's the communication, learn about things in the beginner's guide in the sidebar. If it's the attributes themselves, work on yourself: learn how to carry an entertaining conversation with anyone, become objectively successful at things, develop your fitness and style.

AsurasPath23 · 2019-03-11T20:48:34+00:00

I care more for relationships than sex now. If anything, sometimes I wish I was still a virgin

RedPillMissionary · 2019-03-11T16:24:30+00:00

I'm in the same boat. The reality is, you and I can get laid whenever we want, but 70% of women are overweight, even MORE are ugly, bitchy, or too old. So that means ALL men are fighting over maybe 10% of women. Typically, women don't have a rational list of what they are attracted to. The most beautiful, fertile women, those between 18-23, are in party mode, and date/fuck the fun guys with parties, drugs, cool friends, etc. At some point these women wise up by about 30-35, and start looking for tall men with money and stability.

I had much better luck as a 30 year old banging girls at my parties in their early 20s, than I did when I was in MY 20s. Now at 35, I'm scaring off the girls in their early 20s, and I have no interest in the women close to my age who want to lock me down for stability, money, height, etc. So I'm starting to experience dry spells and only focus on slaying pussy when I travel.

functionalsociopathy · 2019-03-11T17:40:07+00:00

The dating market is just completely fucked atm. I'll be the first to say that the bar scene was pure bullshit, but at least it was better than this dating app craze that has destroyed any chance 50% of its users had of meeting someone. Basically what will solve the problem we have now is if people start uninstalling any dating apps they use and shaming people who use things like #metoo(jkijustwanttogetmybossfired) since that's another major contributing factor to men and women avoiding each other.

Dallas_Stars_Fan · 2019-03-11T13:46:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

MrDownhillRacer · 2019-03-11T20:03:47+00:00

Being overweight is also stigmatized, despite the fact that about two-thirds of us (in the US and Canada, at least) are overweight.

But then again, though few people see being overweight as ideal, few are really ridiculed for being overweight. For being obese, yeah, those people are bullied pretty roughly. But overweight? No guy is going to turn down an overall attractive woman just because she's got a paunch. And most men can still get a girlfriend despite not having abs like Ryan Reynolds or Hugh Jackman.

Really, whether you're a "loser," a "winner," or just "normal" depends on where along the bell curve you are, and how many standard deviations from the average. Only getting lucky once in a while? That's probably nearly the universal male experience. Not losing your virginity until your 20s? That's considered odd, and is stigmatized. Having casual sex with new partners on the regular? You're probably in the one percent.

There's also the fact that, due to social desirability bias, people tend to lie about their number (men exaggerate, women under-report). So, you might thing your friends are getting laid all the time, but they probably aren't.

Then, there's the fact that the mean number of sexual partners for a male is higher than the median, because there really is a minority of guys who really do get around.

chronosthetitan · 2019-03-11T23:35:03+00:00

What do you mean by charming?

TiedHands · 2019-03-12T01:11:34+00:00

Most women in general have become super picky and it's only getting worse, to the point that even attractive, better than average guys aren't getting lucky. Nothing about men have changed. It's women.

recyclablebanthas · 2019-03-12T02:53:41+00:00

1

On one hand, male virginity is constantly demonized in social media, movies, TV etc where it is made out the only possible way to still be a virgin is if one is a hermit, severely mentally ill or grossly disfigured.

One common symptom of negative thinking is a tendency to see things in the most extreme ways, and to view the world in such a way that one is ignoring evidence that doesn't line up with the negative view thing believe currently. (See Confirmation Bias.)

If this is the case here, then what we would see are statements and claims that are oversimplifying or incomplete, compared to what we can observe in the world around us. Is that what we can observe here? Let's break down just these first two claims you're making in this sentence.

Is male virginity constantly "demonized?"
- Demonized = to try to make someone or a group of people seem completely evil. This doesn't even pass the Laugh Test, man. Virgins might be considered pathetic or sad, etc., but completely evil? That's an odd claim considering that many Christians support the idea of adults remaining virgins until they marry. This claim is exaggerated, at BEST.
Is the zeitgeist (popular thinking) out there that the ONLY way to still be a virgin, is to be a hermit, severely mentally ill, or grossly disfigured?
- Firstly, your usage of this word, "still" is coming off unintentionally exaggerated. Still a virgin..... at 18? 21, 25? 30? Older? It doesn't make sense to define all virgins as being in this undesirable or evil category, since people in their late teens or undergraduate college years are still well within the current trends for sexual activity, considering that the percentage of kids in high school who've even had sex at all, has been dropping. (Declining from 47.8% in 2007 to 39.5% in 2017)
- Secondly, if popular thought out there is that the ONLY way to be a virgin, is if someone is a hermit, severely mentally ill, or grossly disfigured, then obviously, we shouldn't see any counter-examples to this.
  - The 40-Year-Old Virgin. The titular virgin is not a hermit, not mentally ill, or disfigured. He had a series of believably bad luck situations, followed by the believable reaction of just giving up. This movie alone disproves your extreme claim that the "ONLY" possible way portrayed in social media, movies, TV, etc., of "still" being a virgin at whatever age you're thinking of, is due to being a hermit, mentally ill, or disfigured.
  - But let's keep going, shall we? American Pie), Superbad), Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Sixteen Candles, Clueless), Blockers), and Cruel Intentions, just to name a FEW. All feature virgins. None of said virgins are hermits, mentally ill, or disfigured.
  - On the other hand, I struggled to find even one story that featured virgins depicted as hermits, severely mentally ill, or grossly disfigured.

So you are ignoring quite a lot of observable reality to arrive at your conclusion, and this post is off to a bad start.

2

Yet, I am constantly hearing complaints from guys that they never get laid, to the point where 24 month and up dry spells are not uncommon.

You suggest that it's strange for guys to be complaining that they never get laid, in a world where many of those guys ALSO happen to be virgins?

The very definition of a virgin is someone who hasn't gotten laid. It's not unusual for virgins to complain about not getting laid. I don't get the mystery here, but maybe something is getting lost in translation here. Can you elaborate?

3

They, without becoming unduly obsessive, try a variety of avenues: Tinder, clubbing etc. yet they disparagingly complain that they're just having no luck. They can strike up a conversation, meet a woman, maybe even kiss but getting laid is an exceptional rarity.

The unfortunate reality is that simply trying hard, doesn't lead to sex, obviously. Just as wishing hard doesn't turn someone into an astronaut.

Even more unfortunate, the reason this is happening is simple, even if the solution is not: Our culture does not have a reliable way of passing down the practical social skills necessary for a happy dating life, from generation to generation. Some families pass it on to their children. Others fail spectacularly.

4

I can speak from experience. I'm a good looking guy, fit, muscular, well educated and affable and charming. Yet I get laid once in a blue moon, it is purely a matter of dumb luck and I have seemingly no control over the process whatsoever. Yet I'm attractive and the few people I've told about this situation are dumbfounded.

This isn't unusual. Looks have an social effect, but in the end, aren't as powerful a factor as other things while someone is in pursuit of sex or a relationship.

And to be frank, you say you're charming, but if you feel you have "no control over the process," all that says to me is that there's a big blind spot somewhere that's gone unaddressed. Because all this stuff, it's really not magic. There are no tricks needed. So much of seduction is really just learning how to get out of our own damn ways and connect with someone.

Getting out of our own way: Confidence, getting out of your head, and shifting your attention on the people you're trying to socially interact with, etc.
Connecting with someone: Listening and balancing your own pursuit of what you want, with consideration and awareness for what others want.

5

This leads me to question this apparent friction between the demonisation of virginity and the complaints that many guys, who seem to be perfectly nice looking, fit, and social just struggle to get laid

There's no demonization of virginity; this is an exaggerated belief you've arrived at, which is a really unhelpful mindset that will only serve to make it more difficult to get what you want.

Complaints of men struggling to get laid have nothing to do with society's view on virginity. This is such a non-sequitur, that I'm not sure how you are connecting the two.

Daverick789 · 2019-03-12T03:33:29+00:00

All the requirements listed by the, "alpha experts" in this thread got me dying. When it sounds like doing differential calculus in your head sounds like it would be easier than...let's just say doing else. You gotta wonder if that something else is even worth doing.

SyrusDrake · 2019-03-11T12:28:02+00:00

I don't really see a contradiction here. The idea that a man's worth is determined by his virility and thus that a male virgin is a loser is, I'd carefully guess, at least as old as the post-republican Roman Empire. But men being unable to express their sexuality for one reason or another is a much more recent phenomenon.

Trowawaycausebanned4 · 2019-03-11T10:48:01+00:00

[permanently deleted]

fqGmUjDT2GCAmFqN · 2019-03-11T18:03:12+00:00

What can you do?

get cash
visit different countries

thepuagrinch · 2019-03-11T09:49:15+00:00

Anyways specific to your question I think.

Getgood at game.

Specifically cold approach pickup.

Thank me in a few years if you stay down on it.

Nottodaymate · 2019-03-11T20:16:30+00:00

i know yes

Slam42 · 2019-03-11T20:20:51+00:00

How many plates do I need to deadlift to get a grill?

eyesopen1111 · 2019-03-11T15:20:50+00:00

If you are a happy virgin, wtf are you on a seduction subreddit?? Seduction is the one thing you are NOT into, right? Just continue to delight in persistent celibacy, since by your definition, you are already winning.

Title	Virgins are demonised, yet apparently most men can't get laid?
Author	Athanasius90
Upvotes	331
Comments	203
Date	March 11, 2019 8:09 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/azqsp0/virgins_are_demonised_yet_apparently_most_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/virgins-are-demonised-yet-apparently-most-men-cant.1464129 https://theredarchive.com/post/1464129

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