Why are some manosphere men so bitter that women have sex with men they are attracted to?

Kratz177 · 2019-09-15T15:44:51+00:00

I'll be honest. A lot of the guys in the manosphere are weird or socially maladjusted. I'm not trying to bash anyone since I think they have some good ideas. However, meeting them in real life opened my eyes. They are not looking for solutions they are just looking to bash what they don't like.

goneaway2thewind · 2019-09-15T17:49:14+00:00

I think the issue isn't necessarily about women not fucking them, it's that in order to attract a woman you have to play mind games and never open up too personally about yourself. Most people want someone that understands and accepts them, but if you have to play myterious hot and cold games you'll never really feel like shes in love with you as an individual, only the the experience you give her. The hoops we have to jump through just to earn affection can be depressing.

Gravel_Roads · 2019-09-15T16:08:07+00:00

Consider that a large portion of men here wouldn't bang a fat/obese chick it should be easy to understand.

The manosphere's response to that is that the fat chick still has an easier time finding someone than the average guy.

Yes 80/20. Women are attracted to men other women find attractive. Yes some dudes are left out. Yes that sucks for them.

"Chad" gets her wet. Average , marriage material , "I want to commit" Joe does not.

Thus the problem. Men are left out. What do you suggest they do about it? Keep saying "let them eat cake" until the problem becomes so large you can't ignore. But you decide to keep ignoring and continue to say "let them eat cake" anyway?

vladvash · 2019-09-15T18:02:45+00:00

Because they are left out and can’t participate in the casual sex, and they very much want to be part of the 20% of men getting sex. What are you expecting? That men just be happy about the fact they aren’t getting the kind of attention and sex they want? Why wouldn’t they feel bitter? I get they shouldn’t bash women, but is your solution to bash themselves and hate themselves? Because I do that as I am not one of the men who can get casual sex whatsoever, and I promise you it’s not any better.

oneprettycoolcat · 2019-09-15T19:16:43+00:00

You really have to ask why people who don't get to fulfill their deepest desire while others do simply based on the genetic lottery are bitter? Come on now.

mrbill1234 · 2019-09-15T16:26:46+00:00

I think the problem comes when they want to ‘settle down’ and start finding the average looking guy ‘attractive’ because he will be a good provider for the offspring she so desperately wants. The manosphere is wising up to this.

wtknight · 2019-09-15T15:50:31+00:00

They're bitter because women aren't attracted to their "looksmatch" if you hypothetically paired up each man and woman ranked-wise. They're bitter because 80% of women supposedly only want 20% of men. It hardly seems "fair" to them, as most men say that they would be willing to have sex with their looksmatch.

reluctantly_red · 2019-09-15T20:41:33+00:00

You can't negotiate attraction.

True. However, women have no problem negotiating their bailout package with Billy Beta once it becomes apparent that they can no longer get attention from guys they're actually attracted to.

SDW137 · 2019-09-16T06:50:09+00:00

Because they aren't those men, and they want be those men. If they had an option, they would choose to be those men. But they can't be, and probably never will be in most cases.

Kos_-_Omak · 2019-09-15T21:36:04+00:00

Do they not realize that the only other option is to have sex with men they AREN'T attracted to?

No, they also have the option of not being a slut. This may be a surprise to some people here, but you don't have to fuck a different dick every weekend.

sweatydeath · 2019-09-15T18:53:03+00:00

I agree with this post soo much. On more than one occasion the average Joe tried to push for a casual fling after making it seem like they want something serious while building rapport.... then when you leave them for a hotter dude they are pissed at YOU and not themselves. Um YEAH, because I have options and YOU don’t. That’s why they’re pissed. Next!

ScaredIllustrator · 2019-09-15T21:20:05+00:00

my gf lied, pretended she found me attractive, meanwhile had sex with men she obviously thought were more attractive than me. im not bitter, i just dont understand the need to lie to people like that.

janeaustenfan99 · 2019-09-15T23:39:31+00:00

Because involuntary celibacy isn’t fun (I’m a woman, btw).

LillthOfBabylon · 2019-09-21T13:56:50+00:00

They misinterpret the OK Cupid statistic. Both men/women chase after the same percentage of attractive people. The top 20% of attractive people get 40% of people’s attention.

This really isn’t about sex for them, it’s really about validation. Too many of them are just neck beards who think they deserve the same privileges that a supermodel has.

That’s why, whenever a Redpilled guy rant about men not giving Belle Delphine any money, he wants those same guys to give HIM money.

TLDR: Theyre jealous.

THE_ANGRY_SHARTER · 2019-09-15T17:58:19+00:00

Because they cannot take what they dish. Seriously. Moids are so fucked up that they're willing to only go after the prettiest women and won't entertain someone "in their league" and then proceed to get their manties in a bunch when women do the same.

"mOnkEyBrAnChInG" yes motherfuckers. Correct.

[deleted] · 2019-09-15T15:50:40+00:00

Consider that a large portion of men here wouldn't bang a fat/obese chick it should be easy to understand.

Which makes a lot of women bitter. To such an extent that some even call it misogyny lol.

Troy016 · 2019-09-15T19:46:01+00:00

Because guys want pussy how girls want dick? But doesn’t equal out as females have higher supply and demand, but their standards are so high. Men often do not have sec because of this cause their not as attractive on a females pov. Females can get sex with ease , so of course , as guys we would feel envy of having and choosing who u wanna have sex with. It boils down that 80/20 rule thing, woman are fine with being used but the top 20 but won’t come near the bottom 80. As guys we just find this stupid and hard to understand.

rus9384 · 2019-09-15T20:28:15+00:00

Women still reject many guys they personally find slightly attractive because they think they can get better than slightly. Thus, the following is a false dichotomy.

Do they not realize that the only other option is to have sex with men they AREN'T attracted to?

OverEasyFetus · 2019-09-15T23:54:25+00:00

The idea behind it is women are generally frankly useless to men other than company and the ability to give them kids. Men literally don't need women for anything more than that. So why the hell would a guy that isn't the "guy who gets laid all the time" want to marry some heavily used pussy?

It really comes down to men realizing the value of these women is greatly diminished. They're still asking for their ticket but spent it a long time ago.

[deleted] · 2019-09-15T17:31:08+00:00

are they really bitter? Red Pillers seem to embrace it and try to succeed anyways, but they also just like making fun of people like most groups. If you're in the ''red pill rage'' phase, you're not really following the philosophy yet you're just accepting its a thing. You're swallowing the pill but not having its effects yet. MGTOWS seem to embrace themselves while trying to warn other dudes, and again make fun of people. MRA's don't really care about getting laid they just want the male side of sexism to go away, and make fun of feminists. People like making fun of people.

If anything its incels that are bitter. And well, doesn't basically every group shit on incels for their behavior? Even when people do agree with some of their general ideas like looks mattering more than people claim, they still tend to hate incels. And then there's black pillers. They're not bitter, they're just hopeless about it and gave up. The bitter part probably happened in their red pill rage.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to go off topic from the 80/20 rule because I think that for most of the manosphere Its not really the facts that make them bitter, its more the way soceity acts around them. Dishonestly, while usually punishing either gender when they're honest.

The crux of what they complain about tends to come down with men being judged unfairly and women getting away with shit they themselves look down on others for. Take MRA's for example, which tend to talk about male disposability and divorce rape. But there's weird double standards and subtle sexism for both sexes and nobody really seems to give a fuck when it happens to men.

Red Pillers often say ''Watch what women do, not what they say'' (honestly that counts for men too but I digress). people tend to say what they wish was true. There's a certain ''women are wonderful'' and ''men are pigs'' thing going around and it just contradicts their experiences and the studies they read. As that comes across as really hypocritical and sanctimonious it can tick someone off.I'm not part of the manosphere, but personally I have experienced similar rage because of how ''nice guy tms'' are treated even though women themselves create them.Just look at how many people saying stuff about women's dating behaviors get called misogynists by default while people complaining about men's dating behaviors just makes people think that it's pretty obvious stuff. Hell There's a certain stigma when it comes to men complaining about dating to begin with. They'll often get called entitled and will get blamed for a lack of success when the odds aren't in their favor.

ThisILearned · 2019-09-15T18:23:13+00:00

Honestly, the 80/20 rule is just a heuristic. The 80/20 rule has some validity, but in my mind, it is more complicated. It's not merely that women choose "Chad's" (I hate this terminology) to sleep with. What men are complaining about is the male equivalent of consistently sleeping with the hottest craziest women and then wondering why your relationships don't work out. After years of irresponsible relationships, you expect to settle down with a normal, moderately attractive nice person. In this scenario, since you have spent a lot of your time messing around and not developing yourself emotionally and professional, you don't have much to bring to the table.

Then you curse society and ask where all the good women/men went. The experience of not building a foundation isn't specific to one gender. This is not about negotiating attraction; it is about negotiating expectations. Both genders must build a solid foundation if they want a good partner. It is unrealistic to expect to enjoy and share in the hard work of another person when you have done very little yourself.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2019-09-15T19:15:42+00:00

Well because it sucks for them?

Also men are stuck picking up the garbage from low IQ single moms. That would make anyone bitter.

jayval90 · 2019-09-15T23:11:12+00:00

Do they not realize that the only other option is to have sex with men they AREN'T attracted to?

That's not true. The problem of hypergamy is way more nuanced than that. The alternative is for women to invest in an attraction that doesn't bubble up from a 10 mile radius upon first sight, not to grit their teeth and open their legs. Most guys want to honestly please their woman but they've been given incredibly shitty advice on how to do so, especially from girls trying to help. And they're also not given the opportunity to refine their methods because women are so effective at preselecting guys before they even interact.

Same goes for guys too, btw. This problem of romance is pretty universal.

bonusfruit · 2019-09-15T23:08:21+00:00

The reason is because of the lie. A widespread, social lie that men are told since boyhood that women are less shallow and are attracted to virtues that make men useful: kindness, self sacrifice, responsibility. When men figure out late in life that women were simply fucking tall hot guys regardless of their personality, the result is bitterness

Helloissame · 2019-09-15T23:13:50+00:00

Because most men aren't getting any and they'll have to choose partners from a generation of women who were sluts for the good looking guys

abaxeron · 2019-09-15T18:05:32+00:00

why wish bad on women

It's been five years since Isla Vista shooting; can you people finally get over it?

elaborate revenge fantasies about how women are going to struggle to find a husband because they spent years chasing chad .........that's the bitterness

No; that's the facts.

I can't find who coined "you can't negotiate attraction", but judging by Google results, it's been adopted as one of core ideas of TRP. You also can't negotiate men's unwillingness to marry a slut and raise a bastard.

AutoModerator · 2019-09-15T13:05:20+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

wtffellification · 2019-09-15T18:42:47+00:00

> A woman who has to have sex with men she doesn't find attractive is going to be miserable

then why do you think many women stay married?

meeselbon573 · 2019-09-15T19:52:57+00:00

They are in the process of recalibrating how they think about women. Anger is just part of that process.

HossMcDank · 2019-09-16T06:07:13+00:00

Virtually all internet-centric groups, such as the nebulous "manosphere", are comprised of people who are not in the top 20% demographic. This, of course, is due to the fact that attractive, confident and sociable people need not spend much time on Internet forums for interaction or peer approval. The guys you mention are roughly equivalent to overweight women who say shit like "real women have curves" or berate men for not being attracted to (or at least overlooking) obesity. It's understandable for either group to be frustrated, especially when we're given this odd message by society that not being physically attracted to certain people is indicative of a character flaw.

I also agree that the idea of "the wall" is just a revenge fantasy that has little basis in reality. However, I understand where r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen is coming from -- it's there to mock the female version of Nice Guys™ and the brazen lack of self-awareness present among them.

qwertlol · 2019-09-16T12:11:56+00:00

Kinda have a feeling that you’re a incel that’s trolling. 80/20 is a myth. Im not saying that women don’t have a easier time getting sex or a getting into a relationship, because they do. It’s not just as ridiculous as you claimed.

But yeah. In a way it’s weird to hate someone just out of jealousy, but then again, that’s how most people tend to react. Men also have a tendency to become violent and a tendency to try and create “logical” reasons that justifies both their worldview and their aggression. I mean look at the incel movement. It’s filled of wired rationalizations and false facts, that I have a hard time seeing women participating in.

FairlyNaive · 2019-09-16T12:56:35+00:00

Marriage wasnt about sexual desire (at least on the womans part) for most of its existance. Beta men were ok with that the whole time.

binkerfluid · 2019-09-18T07:35:15+00:00

I dont think the issue is them not having sex with men they arnt attracted to but its with the idea that they are attracted to WAY fewer men than women in the past have been. Dunno if thats real or not.

Whisper · 2019-09-17T08:25:26+00:00

Incels are by definition men who blame women for their lack of a sex life... because those who blame themselves instead don't stay incels for long.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2019-09-15T17:43:41+00:00

Jealousy. Plain and simple.

And /r/whereareallthegoodmen is fucking hilarious.

I see their premise reflected in real life all the time. Yeah, they are off in their interpretation of things, but they are a funny bunch.

MisterJose · 2019-09-15T18:34:04+00:00

Because they want it to be fair, and in a way, kind of 'need' it to be fair. The drive to get there is so powerful men will do insane things to achieve it. And if they feel like they can't achieve what they need through legitimate ends, they start to ponder illegitimate ones.

...and if they can't find something that works for them there, they just shoot up a school.

Women do 'pretty' better than men. More women fall into 'fuckable' to the average person than men. This is the conundrum I think modern society is going to have to realize and face: Women only having sex with a certain potion of the male population just doesn't stabilize out. I don't know exactly what to do about it.

ifelsedowhile · 2019-09-15T22:30:59+00:00

Your post is quite low IQ. You're overlooking the fact that women are much more selective than men, therefore their pool of suitable/attractive partners is more restricted compared to ours. Nobody explains this concept clearly so when you realize it by yourself, it's understandable to be bitter.

TheJim66 · 2019-09-15T17:49:22+00:00

Women's attraction isn't purely based on looks like men's is.

Also who gives a fuck if they are attracted to 20% of men.Unless they themselves were close to top 20% they wouldn't be able to get them before social media even if they did want them.

What you call bitterness is a displeasure for the inequality in the SMP caused by social media and OLD.Before them ugly fatso wouldn't be able to fuck Chad.There are only so many of them around that would go through the trouble of approaching her irl.

modsareregarded · 2019-09-16T04:55:41+00:00

You can fuck whoever you want, just don’t be a fucking liar (no pun intended). Don’t say that you don’t have unreasonable standards. Don’t blame men for your dating problems. Men take pride in owning up to their problems. Women crying victim of some dating injustice when they’re the problem is goddamn infuriating.

czerdec · 2019-09-16T08:33:23+00:00

Because evolution favored males who are likely to get like that if they don't score.

If you have any European ancestry you are very likely to be the descendant of a highly prolific warlord from around 5,000 years ago. Indeed you probably have more than one such man in your ancestry. Several specific individual men have been identified by DNA analysis. Genghis Khan is an example from the historical period.

Probably, some of those men started out not being all that successful with women. So with extreme energy and motivation, they formed alliances and took big risks by attacking a powerful enemy. Most leaders who did this got immediately removed from the gene pool.

But a small minority won. Maybe they were able to effectively ambush the enemy army and capture their royal family.

So this former loser, this angry bitter man, suddenly has access to thousands of women and he ends up fathering hundreds of children and has thousands of grandchildren.

Fast forward to today, you have millions of men who are bitter and angry. Just like 5,000 years ago more than 90% of these men are failures. But a tiny minority channel their energy into something productive and with good luck become wildly successful.

Of course, because of our societal prohibition on polygamy, they won't have thousands of grandchildren.

So, in short, they are a holdover from a bygone era.

[deleted] · 2019-09-16T09:13:23+00:00

It doesn't bother me that women go after certain men.

It bothers me that they lie about it.

It's the dishonesty that makes the game worse for all participants.

czerdec · 2019-09-16T12:42:15+00:00

This is either a rhetorical question or extremely autistic.

Obviously the behavior described in the OP is seriously non-optimal. But humans aren't logical robots: some react optimally to negative events, some don't. Anyone who is not extremely autistic understands this instinctively.

oneprettycoolcat · 2019-09-15T18:07:26+00:00

You are basically correct, these men should realize that this is how life works, not every one is in the top 20% and basically start paying for sex with the women they want.

The problem is that they have tied their self worth to their success with women, and they are in a very tough spot because of it.

But it is the case that women will struggle to find a worthy man or will be forced to settle, it has to happen according to what you have said above, women are attracted to a small portion of men let's say 20%, but 50% or more get married, what does it tell you?

Title	Why are some manosphere men so bitter that women have sex with men they are attracted to?
Author	Will_Stephens
Upvotes	36
Comments	214
Date	September 15, 2019 1:05 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/d4k6s9/why_are_some_manosphere_men_so_bitter_that_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-are-some-manosphere-men-so-bitter-that-women.253896 https://theredarchive.com/post/253896

Comments