Men - What's One Important Thing You Wished Women Knew About Male Gender and Sex Issues?

YetAnotherCommenter · 2018-11-29T07:16:38+00:00

I'm going to expand on something /u/LeJacquelope said, because I think it really gets to the root of many issues.

I wish women knew that we're not raised to feel entitled to women. We're raised to believe that we're unworthy by default and our job is to make ourselves worthy, and for some of us men there's not a damned thing we can do to become worthy.

To broaden this, I wish women understood that the male and female gender roles operate very differently. In particular, our society treats "womanhood" or "femininity" as an innate property of female biology, as an Aristotelian Essence, as something young girls just "grow into." But manhood is not treated the same way. Rather, your "manhood" (or "real manhood") is an earned social status that must be earned and constantly re-demonstrated and vindicated (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19025286). In other words, the socially-prevalent concept "manhood" is a Platonic Form. We males have to earn our manhood, many of us never get it, some get it and lose it, and it can fluctuate.

Women, on the other hand, have an innate, stable identity and social value Because Uterus.

At least 80% of so-called "male privilege" is really "Real Manhood Privilege." That which can be fairly described as "male privilege" (i.e. granted purely on the basis of biological maleness, and not contingent on gender-role compliance) is a much narrower set of privileges than the one feminists like to talk about.

I wish that women understood so-called "male power fantasies" are not some sort of constant affirmation that "yay, its awesome to have a dick," but rather fantasies of finally being able to live up to to society's demands. These are not fantasies that originate from a place of power, but from a place of shame and feeling weak.

I wish women understood that many men are socially emasculated, not just by other men but by women as well. That we don't have the privilege of being told we're okay and special just how we are Because Dick. We don't get raised to believe we're Princes worthy of a Princess.

I wish women understood that "androcentrism" (i.e. the idea of men as the generic default/norm, and women as a sex-specific deviation from the norm) has some downsides; if men are generic but women are special, this devalues men and being male, making us into fungible cogs in the machine.

I wish women understood that the so-called "fragile male ego" is only fragile because our masculinity is constantly on trial and constantly being judged by society. Unlike your femininity, which is presumed innate. To mock men for it (i.e. "masculinity so fragile") is to speak from a position of female privilege.

Girls just become women. A male must earn his manhood. As /u/LeJacquelope said, "we're raised to believe that we're unworthy by default and our job is to make ourselves worthy." Traditional masculinity does not operate like traditional femininity does.

I wish women understood just how much power they have over men. Even ones who are not straight are still expected to be chivalrous and benevolent towards women. The dynamics of same-sex company and mixed-sex company are simply not the same and adding one woman to a group of men (at least straight men) will change the dynamic and encourage intra-sexual competition among the men. This isn't something that can be easily conditioned away (although it can be), and when it is conditioned away and a woman is treated like "one of the guys," she often doesn't like it because she's so accustomed to exceptional levels of deference and courtesy. This power over men is something that happens in social spaces because men are basically brainwashed into seeing women as their judges. Women have the privilege of being able to socially emasculate men. You wield a power you either don't recognize or want to pretend isn't there, and so long as most men are heterosexual and highly thirsty you cannot claim that men give you that power.

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-11-29T03:39:44+00:00

That it’s so much harder to date. I implore all women to download tinder as an average man to see if you can get a date in 7 days.

Limit yourself because you might become depressed after 7 days. The experiment becomes real and you start mentally abusing yourself. It’s like the Stanford Prison experiment in your mind.

If you’re studying to be a sex therapist and plan to take male clients you should truly do this. It’ll be eye opening for you. The masculine standard that the average woman you encounter thinks she deserves is outrageous. Then your head will explode when you encounter women online call men “entitled.”

2018-11-29T03:07:30+00:00

Men are absolutely not exempt from adherence to a certain body image. I can almost pick out the exact weight where society's, and women's, perception of me changes.

legaladvicequest · 2018-11-29T02:56:53+00:00

I wish women knew that we're not raised to feel entitled to women. We're raised to believe that we're unworthy by default and our job is to make ourselves worthy, and for some of us men there's not a damned thing we can do to become worthy.

But perhaps women already know this, and the "men are raised to feel entitled" thing is nothing more than fearmongering.

But if you only want to speak about body issues? I wish women knew how short men really felt and how badly they're treated. Again, I suspect women know, but they just don't care.

2018-11-29T02:50:45+00:00

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LUClEN · 2018-11-29T05:16:56+00:00

Women are stingy as fuck with compliments.

I can hear 100 compliments from my mates before I hear one from the girl I'm seeing.

But lord forbid her gym progress goes uncommented on.

iceicle999 · 2018-11-29T02:48:13+00:00

I'm not focused on body issues since I work out constantly and I know what I want to achieve. It's disastrous for there to be such a commonly repeated circlejerk in online discussions about how all men are automatically respected and treated like kings and how all women are oppressed and treated badly. My entire life I have never seen such a dynamic in play like that on a social basis. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of men and boys that live amazing lives and they are treated well by everyone, but western society has a habit of painting all men with that broad brush and it's quite frankly insulting. It worries me that so often, all day every single day, there are loads of people repeating falsehoods over and over about how easy we all have it and hardly anybody is around to challenge that idea. How can the issues that men face make any progress if this continues?

cxj · 2018-11-29T08:24:26+00:00

If I call the cops because my spouse is abusing me, I’m more likely to be arrested than helped. This actually happened to me irl, it’s how I initially discovered the manosphere.

daveofmars · 2018-11-29T03:17:22+00:00

I wish they knew that our lives aren't easy. We deal with a lot of shit starting at adolescence and the world by and large doesn't care about us.

In my more cynical times, I feel that what I'm about to say is true, but it's not an intellectual position, rather an emotional one: the whole talk about privilege is just projection. Women get so many passes in life that they take it for granted and superimpose those assumptions on men, because when they see a man at a higher status than them they wonder "well how many passes did HE get?"

The truth that I feel in my heart of hearts is that men don't become high status because we are given a handouts, but because we weren't given any. We seek to improve because our faults are a psychological burden on us.

That is how I feel.

Alth12 · 2018-11-29T04:18:53+00:00

Just how much society at large puts pressure on men, and how often that pressure can be so contradictory that it confuses people. Be in shape, but not too in shape, be cocky, but not arrogant, be courteous, but not a doormat, be kind but not too kind. Those all seem easy until you realize that they're actually empty statements as the range between them is huge.

Men are also told routinely how they have to be successful by societal standards. As I've said previously, men who decide to go live in Alaska off grid or travel and earn just enough are routinely told they're children or running away from responsibility.

Then there's the pressures a sexual society pushes on men that are the same for women. A lot of work has gone in to the psychological effects on and objectification of women in porn. But rarely with men do they venture into that. You'll get a "porn causes ed" and that's it, if you're lucky. No one has talked at length of the effects on men and women of being routinely exposed to men with above average physique, above average dick size and above average sexual endurance etc. Then there's a society that routinely tells you if you're not having a lot of sex, you're less of a man. Dating apps like tinder and how research shows most men really don't match a lot, and certainly don't looks match with the matches they get. Men match down women match up usually which certainly reinforces any self image problems the guy might already have.

Then there's obviously the feminists where some of the most hateful ones will routinely call all men rapists and abusers in the media. As Jordan Peterson has said the way things are is like a psychological tsunami hitting many men constantly, and his advice to deal with is simply focus on your own life and try shutting off outside stimulae.

Feminists obviously say they talk about these things. But even the terms they use are negative towards men. Similar issues faced by women are always referred to as what they are, "women's issues" or the "social pressures" or any number of terms. For men it's "toxic masculinity" and the very word itself "toxic" again sends the wrong message to men. I've never understood, as Karen Straughn says why feminists claim they want to help men, but actually name everything bad after them. All these issues are things women themselves are dealing with or have dealt with in the past, but at no stage was "toxic feminity" ever considered a term to be used.

EDIT - as evidence of this. When that study about male fertility drops came about. It got spoken about, then forgotten. If it was women there'd be a huge clamour to know why, taking governments to task, committees convened etc. With men it's just "you're all becomming infertile. Good luck! Now, where's that story I read earlier about that Hollywood actor and the young girl...."

Salty-Bastard · 2018-11-29T04:11:10+00:00

That we don't want to communicate like women do, we have our own style of communication and we enjoy it. We like being masculine so encourage that instead of attacking it. If we commit to you that means we really, and I mean really, like you. If you want something from us your delivery is way more important than the "thing" is. We enjoy a bit of benevolent sexism occasionally, just roll with it. Hang on my arm when we walk into a room. Surprise me occasionally. Have a sense of humor. And most importantly, sex is validation for a man, fuck us well and fuck us often.

We is me so YMMV.

2018-11-29T07:39:34+00:00

I wish more women knew men don’t have trouble expressing emotional vulnerability. I hear this parroted all the time, particularly by feminists, and yet I know from both personal and professional experience (I’m a therapist) that it’s totally false.

Men have no problem being emotionally vulnerable; what we’re not allowed to do is ask for help. Men are expected to solve all of their own problems and quite often the problems of women as well. Because of this, when men run into difficulty solving a problem, they get frustrated, which results in expressions of anger. This is also why men tend to hide their problems more than women and why they’re less likely to get therapy when they need it. But when they do get therapy or are talking to a close friend? Men will cry, confess feelings of inadequacy, contemplate suicide, admit to being scared...all these things feminists and many women seem to think men just don’t do because it’s “unmanly.”

Nope, sorry, men are not emotionally stunted by their socialization. We’re actually capable of the same level of emotional awareness and self-analysis that women are—strange as that may sound! The problem is that we’re taught we should be endlessly self-sufficient and independent, which is impossible. And it’s maintained by society shaming men whenever they get help—which both men and women do in relatively equal proportions.

2018-11-29T03:54:49+00:00

Women and men (and everything in between) are more alike than we are different. If it's not that one is fat, one is discriminated against because of one's religion, if not that, it's race, if not that, it's football club, if not that...

PPD-Angel · 2018-11-29T02:49:44+00:00

Please make a small edit to your post to summon the AutoModerator.

decoy88 · 2018-11-29T08:04:08+00:00

Like..... men have emotions. It seems as if there a a number of women who literally don't think men have feelings and there's a legit off switch because penis.

Lewd_Crude · 2018-11-29T10:10:53+00:00

That women need to work on their capacity to self reflect and start using it more often. The number of times I've been in situations that would be considered absolutely heinous if the genders were reversed is insane but because I'm a man and they are a woman it doesn't matter.

A random personal example:

Politely rejecting sex from girlfriend only to have her completely lose her fucking mind at being rejected. This would be seen as coercive behavior if genders were reversed and considering it's happened in literally EVERY relationship I've had it's pretty fucking frustrating. One time I had to yell at one of them to stop because they were grabbing at me even after I had said no multiple times. Of course I was the bad guy for hurting her feelings through rejection and yelling. I had to explain that what she was doing was rapey as fuck. She literally didn't understand until I recreated the scenario but reversed the genders. Only after that did she apologize.

It's like women are so used to being seen and told that they are victims that they can't conceive of how they could possibly weild power over others. The truth is emotional abuse by women to men is rampant. Gaslighting, manipulation, sex as a reward, forcing men into double binds and expecting men to be mindreaders are all pretty common things women do to men in relationships on a pretty frequent basis but the Women are Wonderful effect completly blinds us to that side of women.

The absolute worst though is being shamed by society for being "emotionally stunted" (which is untrue) and unable to express my emotions while simultaneously mocking the very men who come forward with a grievance. Society even punishes meta discusions on how men can't speak out and literally forces men into a double bind.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind

Salty-Bastard · 2018-11-29T03:59:57+00:00

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GayLubeOil · 2018-11-29T05:25:19+00:00

Ok here's what I think you should know from a Red Pill Perspective.

Your male friends are NuMales. Body Positivity is just gluttons rebranding themselves.

The Purpose of sex is procreation not pleasure.

A culture obsessed with pleasuring it's own butthole is only a few generations from being replaced.

Once Gomorites like yourself are replaced no one will ever have to listen to Feminist nonsense ever again.

decoy88 · 2018-11-29T08:25:40+00:00

That for a lot of us (or more likely younger guys), handling our own sex drives is a difficult challenge.

I've recently had to consider that for my female friends who complain about "male sex drives" almost never have to deal with 'active lust' and managing it. Projecting how easy it is not to want sex from strangers simply because the urge never occured to them in the first place.

I'm not even talking about cheating. I'm talking about the many people who get upset to hear that guys "imagine sex" with women they meet or female friends. Or using porn as an aide to masturbation.

When the projection is "Well I don't get horny over a man unless he means xyz to me, so if he gets horny over an image of a stranger, I must not mean that much to him or those strangers mean more to him"

The disconnect is ridiculous.

2018-11-29T08:37:00+00:00

That we're a little bit of autists by default and we can't focus on many things at the same time (e.g. when we're watching a football match with our favorite team on TV). And that we can't grasp subliminal insults that chicks throw constantly at each other but we also don't care.

Mr_White119811 · 2018-11-29T09:09:26+00:00

Theres nothing to know.

As a guy who went a long period of life not caring about fitness and then started caring about fitness, I have seen and experienced the shift in female response.

Going on about body positivism is just setting people up for failure.

Im not talking about becoming Arnie here, just the difference between a toned body and being a potato.

Bekiala · 2018-11-29T12:01:29+00:00

I'll try to stick to your question and answer on point, but I'm not really familiar with the subject so I apologize if I digress. Also, as it will be painfully evident in a few paragraphs english is not my native language.

I think that a large part of males, at least from my experience, are actually less confident about their image than they appear. This doesn't mean that they are nervous or lack self-esteem, but merely that they acknowledge and understand the gap between their body and the ideal archetype that women usually strive for. I think that, regardless of gender, the feeling of uneasiness when comparing your body to the ideal promoted by media and society is universal. However, as a consequence, as a male you do experience less attention unless you are in the top 20/10%.
You might have already read of people making experiments by signing up on various social networks for dating or hookups as the opposite gender to experience what sort of attention you get when you "switch sides". I won't add up much, but at this point it should be clear that's not something that can be dismissed as anecdotal.
On the plus side, this also mean you have lower chances of getting unwanted or unsolicited attention, or even worse sexual harassment (although there are male victims of it), but you could potentially see yourselves as a less suitable partner, affecting your self-esteem.

Slightly off topic, It's of course up to debate what the source of inequality is, and it seems that the two most eminent schools are the conservative one that chalk it up as an inescapable biological circumstance of being human, and the progressive one that dismisses the biological cause and sees it as a structure of society that we could break down and reshape, if we so wished. But that's a topic for another matter, and I'll return to discussing the status quo, regardless of what brought it.

Anyway, I hope this didn't get across as confrontational or bitter; I usually refreain from discussing these touchy subjects because people on both sides tend to get heated, but it seems there was good intention behind your question so I thought it was worth contributing.

OtakuKittyn · 2018-11-29T03:20:33+00:00

I don’t consider myself to be in some kind of collective called ‘team men’, where we all ‘share issues’ and collectively have an opinion on ‘body shaming’ or ‘gender issues’.

I consider myself to be an individual that happens to be male. I don’t look and wonder what other men are doing, what they look like, what they wear, I couldn’t give a shit about them.

I look in the mirror and see one individual that I have control over, and I can see what I need to physically improve on, and I can find out how to do that by using google.

I’m not set on improving myself for other men, or because society ‘dictates a role’ for me to fulfil, I’m doing it because I’m me and I want to be healthy.

OtakuKittyn · 2018-11-29T17:07:26+00:00

Holy guac, you all! I know that Reddit is an incredibly active community, but I honestly didn't expect to get this amount of responses. I know its my job to be a good moderator for my thread, but today is a busy school day for me. But I promise to be back quite soon and look forward to reading everything everyone has left.

blackedoutfast · 2018-11-29T22:47:23+00:00

i wish women understood just how much of the attention, help, and special treatment that they receive from dudes is entirely because the guy wants to fuck them. women understand that this happens, but they really do not understand the extent of male thirst for pussy or how much men will do in the pursuit of getting some.

all of those guys who always say hi and like talking to you or the guys off to help you with things aren't doing it because they're naturally nice and friendly, and they're not doing it because you have a good personality or you're good a conversation or anything like that. it's literally entirely because you have a warm wet hole between your legs and they want to shove their cock into it.

if they found out that you had a dick or that you were in a devoted marriage, the vast majority of those guys would instantly stop acting so helpful, nice, or interested in you.

also, women don't understand how much effort men into making things happen in dating and relationships. if you meet a guy and have special romantic or interesting experiences with him and start liking him and eventually have sex with him, it didn't "just happen" it's usually because the guy put a LOT of thought and effort into making it happen.

also, that witty thing he said in conversation or that way he looked at you or touched you or that interesting place he took you and all that stuff probably wasn't unique or spontaneous. most of it was probably carefully planned out ahead of time and you probably weren't the first girl that he used it on.

2018-11-29T04:13:39+00:00

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SkookumTree · 2018-11-29T17:11:40+00:00

SkookumTree · 2018-11-29T17:21:30+00:00

Dame-

abaxeron · 2018-11-29T12:11:36+00:00

Men prefer truth to comfort, and freedom to safety.

I mean, if we're going down to one important thing.

ifelsedowhile · 2018-11-29T19:58:02+00:00

Women should realize prostitution is inevitable so it should be legalized and regulated everywhere.

The reason why men go with hookers is not because they hate women, it's because they want sex.

2018-11-29T22:42:50+00:00

Contrary to what is out there, not all men are rapists.

2018-11-29T06:33:03+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Men - What's One Important Thing You Wished Women Knew About Male Gender and Sex Issues?
Author	OtakuKittyn
Upvotes	35
Comments	229
Date	November 29, 2018 2:31 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/a1d5h4/men_whats_one_important_thing_you_wished_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-whats-one-important-thing-you-wished-women.258823 https://theredarchive.com/post/258823

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