[Q4W] Ladies Why do you make some guys wait for sex and others no

Jokengonzo · 2018-04-20T12:51:59+00:00

Simple question Ladies Why do or did some guys get into your panties faster than others? Why does Guy A have to put little to no effort while Guy B has to jump...

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I will admit to being confused quite often when I read threads in this sub. I suspect I just don't understand a key concept involved. The answer to this question seems very obvious to me. A young woman has sex quickly after meeting a man, engages in casual sex or one night stands, and she may not like how she felt or how she was treated after doing so. Some women are looking for hook-ups and casual sex. Fine. There is nothing wrong with that. There are also women who don't want to have sex with a man they don't have any other connection with. That is fine too.

Why can't men just pursue sex with women who feel the same? There is no sense in being angry at a woman for not wanting to jump into bed immediately. If she did so in the past and did not enjoy the outcome for whatever reason it isn't surprising she would not repeat that behavior. Plenty of people want hook-ups and casual sex so just engage in such behavior with them. I don't think I really understand this because I do not see the problem.

I don't really believe the men complaining want a woman who isn't interested in casual sex to do so anyway. I'm not getting that impression at all. Is the issue they are having related to women who do have casual sex with some men but not others? That seems very self-explanatory as well although I don't think women engaging in such behavior are doing themselves any favors. If they want relationships then stop the hook-ups completely and date men who also want relationships. I can understand why men become frustrated with women who want to do both. I don't know if these men are trying to give the impression they are interested in dating and a relationship as a ploy to get sex. That sort of behavior could be why some women choose to wait longer for sex. Honesty from the start is probably the best way to go.

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I had responded to:

Do you not think the presence of a sexually appealing man greatly influences a woman's desire for sex?

I was merely pointing out that sometimes the other circumstances happening in a woman's life can override their want to have sex, whether it's with a sexually appealing person or not. You dismissed my assertion that periods are a perfectly reasonable time for women to turn down sex they would have otherwise have had. I told you exactly why periods can kill a woman's libido.

And yes, women absolutely do go out when their cramps hurt like a son of a bitch. We can't just stop our lives completely. Sometimes it can't be avoided, sometimes they spring up unexpectedly. Not every woman vomits when they cramp but that doesn't mean they want sex anymore than a woman who does.

I detailed a single instance that would make a woman turn down sex with someone they may have otherwise, that's all.

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The real question is what distinguishes guys you'll want to have sex with sometimes from guys you'll want to have sex with most of the time.

I know men really seem to harp on "CHAD" here.

But the real determining factor is how SHE feels in that moment and that has to do with mood, hormones, emotional state, vibes, etc.

For example, tbh I don't typically have much casual sex. The casual sex I have is with a FwB.

He happened to become my FwB because one day he caught me super horny/tipsy/peak fertility moment.

He's not even the "hottest" guy who has tried fuck me, though yes he's above my willingness threshold... I need to not be disgusted by kissing your face or looking at your face.

And btw the hotter guys who attempted didn't get any of the Grids because I honestly wasn't in a "sexy" mood the times they attempted and felt zero desire for sex despite them being VERY attractive people.

Anyway since FwB dude was serendipitously there for me when I happened to be in that mood, he's become my default fuck buddy because I don't see the point in introducing new peen into the fray.

It truly does come down to:

sometimes i want sex and sometimes i dont

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There are plenty of women who are more interesting than that but they may not have gigantic tits.

Yeah i make too much money, take too many roids, am too tall, to put up with average girls who don't lift and don't have squat butt.

The only friends i have that are women are ones that have groups of hot friends and bring said friends around. That's it, most women are fucking boring. Hell theres one at my work and she doesn't even like talking about her work subject (financial advising) let alone talk about something from the current edition of the WSJ. She'd rather talk about her fucking dog, or ask me how i'm able to avoid sugars.... christ alive last week after a meeting she tried talking to me about office relationships. I hard ignore what she says and turn the conversation into something that could generate monetary value, like some political event in a country thats a huge commodities exporter.

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Because men seem to discard you if you screw around too early

The logic behind this is that they probably interpret you as being a slut. If you wait only for some guys, you're creating the illusion that you're not a slut to the guys you make wait, while you still are a slut for the guys who you want to discard you. One, it's, perhaps unintentionally, deceptive, and two, it's rewarding the behavior of those you want to discard so more guys will want to act like a guy you'd want to be discarded by to get sex quicker. It's frustrating to guys because it seems counter-intuitive on both sides.

In other words...

Some guys don't see girls who put out quick as long term potential, so by not putting out quick for certain guys, you're lying to them about being one of those girls who doesn't put out quick and creating the illusion that you are long term potential. A long term relationship founded on a lie sounds very bad though doesn't it?

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If you could reasonably know that this man wants to LTR you and commit and would actually do that then there wouldn’t be a reason to make him wait. But how are you supposed to know that? In the modern SMP where men are also free to pursue their own sexual strategy (ie maybe they just want a ONS, maybe they just want a plate, maybe they aren’t even sure they want to LTR yet), then you can’t just assume their intentions on date 1 and ensure they will play out and fit why you also want. Even if they find it “insulting”.

In the same vein, a woman who finds it insulting that her new guy won’t immediately engage in the same level of investment/romance he may have done in the past may very well have a right to feel insulted but it might not necessarily be all about her either, if that makes sense.

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Do you believe men do not hold such views? I'll admit I also believe that men do not place much value on a woman who has sex immediately. Men will sometimes state this outright. I read a post on TRP that turned into an argument over 'promoting' a plate to a LTR could ever happen if she had sex on the first date. The majority stated that is a dealbreaker. Once a woman does that she can not ever be a gf or LTR because she has disqualified herself.

I knew my husband long before we started dating. I met him when we were 18 and we did not start dating until our mid-20s. He liked to go out, he worked in construction traveling frequently, and he had no problem with one night stands and hook-ups. The only other LTR he ever had was with a high school girlfriend. He told me he would never consider dating or marrying the women he was having sex with in his single days. He didn't pursue women he liked enough to possibly date at that time in his life because he didn't place any value on a woman who would do what he wanted, which was casual sex and one time hook-ups. I don't have much of a problem with his behavior in those years and its entirely due to the fact that he didn't pretend. He never told any woman he was interested in a relationship and was very upfront about it. If he had lied and tried to deceive them to get sex I would look at it quite differently.

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To be fair on the ladies there is some evidence that this is an important part of a females strategic arsenal.

Men are modestly attracted to promiscuity in short-term mates. However they are highly averse to this in long term mates, preferring instead non-promiscuous women.

There is evidence that willingly giving up sex very early is something males instinctively use to make this distinction. That NOT doing so causes men to move them out of the promiscuous and into non-promiscuous category at an instinctive/sub-conscious level.

So any women wanting to advertise herself to a potential mate as a “long term partner” would be very well served to “take it slow” and take advantage of this instinctive attitude shift IF she wishes to seem more attractive as a long term partner (regardless of any previous behaviour).

To a certain extent it’s a sex-reversed cognate of the “treat ‘em mean, keep ‘em keen” heuristic males employ.

It signals high value in a way that appeals instinctively to male sub-conscious process that assess this value in a long term mate.

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh yeah, unless I misunderstood you, I think some girls are "whores" for certain type of guys and then for another type of guys (usually they are called "nice guys") they try to appear to be virgins, hard to get, not matter how hard a guy tries to impress the girl and no matter how much heart and effort he puts into all this, the girl won't put out not even on 3rd or 10th date. Maybe after 2-3 months, if she genuinely starts to like him..

But for the guys in the first group? She's an instant "whore", she will bang them on first date not matter how little effort they put in. A guy can just say "hey wanna fuck?" and she will be all over him. But for a guy in second group? He can buy flowers, dates, dinners, gifts whatever... she won't be easy on him and won't put it.

Maybe that's because she considers a guy in second group to be LTR material and she doesn't want to appear to be a whore? That's common answer from women. From a man's perspective, she's just looking for Beta Bux. And men in general do not like it.

This kind of paradoxical behaviour of women is what pisses many men off. Paradox is that women value LOW EFFORT. To them effort is disgusting and kills their arousal for some reason. That's why TRP suggests for men to act in a way that display that they put into it zero effort.

Now if we acted the same in our everyday lives, for example in a job? Of course effort is valued, people want to be noticed by putting in effort. But in sexual market place? It's the other way round, effort is viewed as "meh, keep buying me drinks, I am going home alone anyway".

Ultimately, what matter is results. But our society deluded men into believing that effort is being value, when it's not valued at all. My go to example is taking a shit. I may put as much effort into it yet nobody would value my shit. Unless I started shitting golden eggs. Which are results.

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[–]Hayasaka-chan1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Men can present themselves as more desirable than they turn out to be. The guy who was really great on the first date can start exhibiting behaviors further on that may eventually repel a woman.

Ex.: The guy who was great on the first date really interests his date, she then decides there may be something more worthwhile from this guy than a casual fuck. So she tries to get to know the guy better. A few dates on she realizes he's actually a slob and she has much higher standards for cleanliness for herself. A filthy car or apartment can really turn women off. Usually this results in one of two plays: a) the woman dumps the guy without having sex with him to save both of them time or b) she sticks it out a bit longer to see if his other qualities override his being a slob. Sometimes plan b works out for the couple, sometimes it doesn't.

The problem faced by women in both scenarios though is she can be painted as a bitch no matter how it plays out. If she bails early she's just a tease. If she sticks it out longer and bails she's a prude and a bitch. If she sticks it out and ends up taking things forward to sex she's just a game player who likes making guys "work for it".

Are some women that awful? Sure. But sometimes it really just is a base incompatibility that was learned later.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A simple solution to this is to be consistent. Men are expected to provide certain treatment that women find acceptable or else they aren't going to bother. For example, she may want to be wined and dined or insist they get to know each other more, so he complies. If she always fucks on the first or fifth date, no man can accuse her of raising the price of sex. The issue men have is that, in her 20s, she dishes it out freely but when she notices fewer high quality men desire her in her 30s, then she wants to have higher standards.

Why is she raising the price when her SMV has decreased? It's different if she lost a lot of weight, became more feminine as she got older and took better care of herself. But usually, the opposite happens. A good looking 30 year old man with a good job is going to target the hotter 25 year old instead.

Finally, if she rations out sex to the men she says she likes, and gives it out easily to men she isn't THAT into, she doesn't really understand what men desire in relationships. This doesn't bode well for the relationship. If she gave her boyfriends lots of sex but was conservative around men she wasn't committed to, and was consistent about it, men would be less likely to question her.

[–]Hayasaka-chan0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand what you're saying about consistency, I get that. You're not wrong.

But people change. The young 20-something may just not be interested in a long term relationship, so casual sex seems fine. Once she's done a bit of growing up she decides to find someone whose more interested in long-term relationships and not just sex. But myself and plenty of other women have been raised being told what guys who only want sex up-front aren't great for LTRs. This gets reinforced by guys who talk about "pumping and dumping". So the woman changes how she interacts to be more guarded with the sex she gives out as a way to find men who are interested in her more than just sexually.

Finally, if she rations out sex to the men she says she likes, and gives it out easily to men she isn't THAT into, she doesn't really understand what men desire in relationships

That goes back to my basic incompatibility statement. It's just a fact of human nature, we aren't always going to get along and mesh perfectly. Obsessing and stressing about a woman's choices aren't going to improve a man's chances of getting laid. Moving on when things turn south do.

[–]quicklogaccountI claim to cause RPs to feel blue0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry, although it gives context, I don't see how it answers the question. So the question remains, and still bugs me. lol

Look at the original woman of your description, before she splits into options "a" through "c":

"there may be something more worthwhile from this guy than a casual fuck": Then, she would have had a casual fuck in the absence of this "something";
"A few dates on (...)": They kept dating in absence of sex.

Her worst strategy is:

Question 1: If this guy is worth a casual fuck AND something else, he'll either demand sex AND something else to keep dating me, or he'll accept postponing sex if I offer something extraordinary.
Test: Don't have sex.
Observation: He keeps dating me in absence of sex.
Conclusion 2/question 2: I am offering something extraordinary (and therefore it does not matter whether I have sex with him or not) OR my original hypothesis were wrong and he is not worthwhile, because if he were he wouldn't have stayed with me in absence of sex. Which one?
Test: Am I offering something extraordinary, that men want but other women he might seduce lack?
Observation: Yes/No
Conclusion 2: (Yes, implies either moving on or "soulmates" in the most unrealistic sense) I might be too good for him and I should seek better if he feels like settling, or he might be my match, and there's no issue in indulging in sex. (No/Lame couples around) I am either enough for this man even without sex, or the perspective of sex with me is good enough for him to spare his time and money (The women dwelling in this "no" make ALL the committed women that acted against their hypergamy.)

Notice that this strategy loses ALL the possibly interesting men for whom she wasn't extraordinary enough to get to know a little better in absence of sex. In that strategy if a man is willing to "wait", she goes straight for conclusion 2, and there is a real chance of her rationalizing a lie there.

Leaving her perspective and going for the male's, things get a lot more simple. The only reason a man has to "wait and get to know her a little better" in absence of sex is if she's either way out of his league and is worth it or if he's so insecure he doesn't believe other women will sex him up.

The best female strategy, provided that she finds a man interesting enough to have casual sex with, is sex it up while she gets to know him a little better.

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Title	[Q4W] Ladies Why do you make some guys wait for sex and others no
Author	Jokengonzo
Upvotes	8
Comments	270
Date	April 20, 2018 12:51 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8dnbgy/q4w_ladies_why_do_you_make_some_guys_wait_for_sex/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4w-ladies-why-do-you-make-some-guys-wait-for-sex.262820 https://theredarchive.com/post/262820

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