Is online dating fucking up the minds of men? Is it better to stay away from it?

Lordb0lton · 2019-06-30T18:16:31+00:00

Could it be that online dating disproportionately (but not exclusively) attracts the image obsessed?

Basically making it a bimodal market where some of the people who "win" are willing to go to any length to do so, while the rest are frozen out but unwilling to "win at any cost"?

NockerJoe · 2019-06-30T18:57:09+00:00

I think online dating was fine for a while. POF, OkCupid, Match.com were a decent means of finding a relationship at one point. However when Tinder really blew up did men find where they really stood. If you’re a guy and want to know how attractive you are, make yourself a tinder profile and start swiping. It’s a bit of a wake up call for some men who are average, because men usually believe they are more attractive as nobody will straight up tell someone they’re ugly in real life. They’ll get little to no matches, and any of the matches will either not respond, and give one word texts. I myself thought that this was the norm, even if I was getting an above average amount of matches. However to see that for some users they were getting women messaging them first, even attractive women, it was crazy. Then of course when you see the men who are successful are attractive, and realize that you don’t look like them, it’s not hard to put 2 and 2 together.

For the first time in probably a very long time, men have been feeling insecure, and unhappy with themselves in great numbers. This has brought a huge wave of self improvement, which is a good thing in a way. But many men have been obsessively doing it until they get the attention they want from women in any way possible, which has led to the detrimental actions they are doing to themselves as described in the post. Many cases of BDD are coming about, and percentages of men are getting cheekbone, jaw, chin implants, fillers, hair transplants, just to keep up.

For some men though, it all works out because they were able to self improve into someone that is considered attractive by most women. They get the sex, and the validation that comes with it. Some men don’t, but it’s important to make sure you try.

Idk OP, maybe it should be avoided all together if you’re not attractive, but to be honest, you won’t really be able know if you are attractive or unattractive until you do it at all.

sadomasochrist · 2019-06-30T19:34:45+00:00

I don't usually completely dismiss a study, but this is not believable at all. Male bulimics? That is insanely rare.

And I'm supposed to believe that nearly as men men are bulimic as are using steroids?

I'd be surprised if 5% of the total male population uses steroids. Just no.

No.

wekacuck · 2019-06-30T18:28:44+00:00

There is absolutely no way those statistics are real. 1/3rd of people on popular dating apps are not on steroids, let alone regular gym users

blackedoutfast · 2019-06-30T19:26:30+00:00

they fucked up something in the study, there's no way those numbers are accurate. come on do you really believe that almost half of the dudes online dating are using laxatives and diet pills and vomiting for weight control? no, just no.

NockerJoe · 2019-06-30T18:30:08+00:00

I keep saying women don't really appreciate the effort men take to get the kind of body women like. Remember that percentage is half again as large as the number of men finding even mediocre sucess on that platform. The idea that women don't k ow how much effoet it ACTUALLY takes made the front page of reddit last night courtesy of showerthoughts so it's not like I'm alone in that analasys.

I'm not on OLD anymore but my current regimine demands I lift almost every day, slam protein shakes I fucking hate pre and post workout to maximise how much protein my body will absorb, and take diet pills on top of it. I'll probably add something else like testosterone to the mix later on. It's been six months and it'll take another six for me to even begin to get where I want. Most of my conventionally handsome friends do that or more daily and have for years and will priorotize working out over having fun. That shit about injections and laxatives is serious conversation topics that have actually come up. Despite all this none of us look like Dwayne Johnson and the most prominent of us look like slightly muscular but lean regular guys. The majority barely show an effect at first glance despite all that effort.

wtknight · 2019-06-30T18:25:59+00:00

I bet there are these same kinds of rates for women using Instagram, which is the equivalent in online competition for women compared to online dating for men. In general, competition promotes people to do extreme things. The solution is for men to be satisfied with small successes in life and not to be so obsessed with finding the perfect hot woman out there, especially for something as emotionally unfulfilling as casual sex.

RadChadswell · 2019-06-30T18:47:56+00:00

Causation could be the other way. People with unhealthy image obsessions and eating disorders might be more likely to turn to online dating to get validation for their looks.

A quick flip through Tinder shows me a whole lot of women who just finished a fitness challenge, lost weight, and are clearly looking for validation for their new beach bodies.

rus9384 · 2019-06-30T22:42:21+00:00

There definitely was no bias at all...

the survey was limited to those using an iPhone 6 series smartphone or greater (e.g., iPhone 6 s, 7, 8, X). Thus, participants with older versions of the iPhone (before iPhone 6) and other mobile devices were not eligible.

Cyclone619y2j · 2019-06-30T19:12:38+00:00

Online dating is pointless unless you are a tall, attractive, buff, white guy.

passepar2t · 2019-06-30T18:20:28+00:00

If you're not very attractive, you're better off approaching in person. Online, pics are the only criterion. In real life, you have a better chance to deceive her with your winning personality.

[deleted] · 2019-06-30T19:12:34+00:00

Because women can now "swipe left" or "swipe right" and first impressions matter.

meeselbon573 · 2019-06-30T23:50:08+00:00

Very interesting. This is a reaction to the fact that women find 80% of men to be physically unattractive.

NockerJoe · 2019-06-30T19:40:36+00:00

Thoughts...

First, let's just remember that it is absolutely true that the diagnosis rate for mental illness in men is lower because men seek treatment less and admit that they have internal problems less than women. I'll blame 99% of that on men being trained to be stoic, we've known for years that men in the boomer and gen x generations had severe issues with not going see doctors for serious health issues that later got them hospitalized or dead. So, let's not immediately assume that the online dating vs offline dating crowd statistics are super accurate, men who are online and engaged in mainstream internet culture today are far more likely to admit to mental illness and seek diagnosis, sincere advice to get a therapist being pretty fucking common on the internet these days.

Second, let's throw in the idea that men are trained to be results oriented and to pay less attention to process. Just in general, men will put up with some shitty processes if they get the results they want, often.

Third, let's just establish the fact that pictures are the first and often only thing looked at in online dating. Look at Tinder's interface and tell me that it isn't designed to let you immediately select away from appearances you don't like without a seconds hesitation or thought. The fact that online dating has been shaped this way by the platforms it exists on is pretty important.

So, in this world where men often internalize, repress, and do not seek help for mental illness other than expecting their girlfriends to do it, in the online dating world that has literally been built from the ground up to be image focused often to the exclusion of anything else, when men are more results than process oriented in a pretty heavy way, yeah this makes alot of sense.

Online dating is inherently competitive from the male perspective.

I mean, think about it. At best, 20% of the female population fall into the "Pretty, kind, great in bed, smart" category so far as the average man is concerned. And the average man, well he wants to date up. He wants the most awesome girl he can find, no matter how not awesome he is himself.

And this is how stupid ass straight dudes try to be more awesome. They throw all of their attention into appearance to the point of engaging in extremely unhealthy behaviors both mentally and physically to achieve the goal of getting laid and winning the competition. They try to "looksmax" themselves just like the friggin incels do because male self improvement often ends either in gym or masturbating. And now we have a third option, it ends in the toilet because "The less emotional gender" has a higher rate of fucking bulimia.

I always knew men "being less emotional than women" was utter horse shit.

It makes perfect, sad sense to me. It's instant gratification applied to self improvement. "I'll throw up or shoot up some roids to improve, can't go see a fucking therapist and get my life and emotions under control no sir!"

wekacuck · 2019-06-30T20:05:51+00:00

I've been giving it some entp and I've come to the conclusion that OLD is an escapist trap.

In the old days if you wanted to interact with women you were forced to actually go find and engage with them.

OLD gives this gamified virtual reality option of not doing that and instead crafting your avatars instead. Then you go online and try to pass some sort of Turing test.

If you lack the IRL experience and context you don't even know you're failing the Turing test. The trap is to double down on the avatar building rather than to try something else and learn the context.

I'm an old fart who never used OLD but look at it and I see what's useful about it in terms of addressing certain challenges. Meeting new people etc. But it just seems like what I see as OLD's advantages would work best as a supplement rather than a replacement.

DREADC0RSAIR · 2019-06-30T20:28:32+00:00

I don't think it's online dating, but we as a society keep developing and creating stuff that makes life easier. We basically have everything we could ever want at our fingertips, or have it delivered to us. Now we have to work harder just to have healthy human bodies. I don't want a girlfriend but i also don't feel comfortable being fat. I think a lot of people are that way.

Being a fatass makes people insecure and no one wants to be insecure, that's all it is really

katymarx · 2019-06-30T20:41:20+00:00

These numbers can't be right.....

unkle_Rico1 · 2019-06-30T20:57:37+00:00

Lol I think you misread 3.4% which seems more likely.

fevertree · 2019-06-30T23:06:36+00:00

If you go on dating sites like eharmony, which are designed for relationships instead of hookups - women are over represented and men don’t have to compete this hard. When you look at tindr....men are over represented and flood the inboxes of the relatively few women who are on there. Not only that, but dating sites designed for hookups are going to appeal to people who select partners based solely on physical appearance. So yes, I think specific types of dating sites eventually have this effect on men that you describe.

[deleted] · 2019-07-01T03:13:12+00:00

Online dating is a meat market. Not meaty = dont competey. If you arent either tall, jacked, a facemog or explicitly rich and in the mood to get gold dug, stay the hell away.

Seroriman · 2019-07-01T04:27:51+00:00

If we consider the Pareto-principle, meaning the 80:20 rule, which applies nearly without reserve to online dating, belonging to those 20% is literally vital to your success. Men are literally killing themselves or going overboard to be Chad, just based on how much better Chad is treated than your average guy. Online dating is the more extreme version of the unfettered sexually liberated marketplace, but it's not fundamentally different.

A casual-sex heavy non-monogamous marketplace is making men do stupid things and fucking them up. Online dating happens to be an extreme example of that.

[deleted] · 2019-06-30T20:37:15+00:00

I think porn is what destroying male brains, not the social media.

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[deleted] · 2019-06-30T18:35:36+00:00

Yed, online dating has bad effects on most of the men there, and yes, stay as far away from it as possible

GloomyReindeer · 2019-06-30T18:37:24+00:00

People who aren't doing so well on OLD will stop using it, those who are doing well will continue. I very much doubt that 36.4% of users take anabolic steroids, but if it is the case the data suggests that the people who do use OLD regularly care a lot about their appearance.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-06-30T20:19:23+00:00

Yea 36% of them are super fit on steroids so what

90% of those have that as their only personality point

You gotta learn to take pics that make you look cool

[deleted] · 2019-06-30T20:24:27+00:00

This explains why online dating has been a total flop for me! I don't do/use any of those things.

its_going_down_ · 2019-06-30T20:57:23+00:00

I'd also assume that the sample of people using online dating apps and also registering as online workers on MTurk might be having some bias. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Mechanical_Turk#Research_validity

DarkNights292 · 2019-06-30T23:01:44+00:00

It made me lose weight and get more motivated. For me

angels-fan · 2019-06-30T23:46:58+00:00

Speaking from personal experience, yes, it does!

I did OLD when I first divorced and was pretty much ignored. I got a couple of relationships out of it, but largely I'd instigate with no reciprocation. Made me feel like quasimoto.

Then I went into the real world. I had pretty good success when I could actually meet and talk to the women.

[deleted] · 2019-07-01T00:13:24+00:00

I refuse to believe that 40% of men on tinder are roidy bulimics on diet pills and laxatives. What garbage.

flyinghorse1 · 2019-07-01T01:06:56+00:00

In defense of online dating for a man - before online dating I wasn't really successful with women and couldn't date that well because I was introverted. When I discovered online dating aged around 26 my world changed and was able to date and meet many cool and interesting women. I managed to have a few years of interesting dates and lots of sex, and eventually I was able to meet a wonderful woman.

69odin420 · 2019-07-01T04:01:44+00:00

TLDR: People who use steroids are more likely to use tinder.

Isn’t this what you would assume? Are you trying to blame tinder for their steroid use? They are paying a lot to look a certain way obviously they’re gonna try to get some attention for looking like that.

The_Lone_Apple · 2019-07-01T10:49:17+00:00

Reading this makes me feel sad for young men and their feelings of self-worth. I'm not entirely sure what these people think they are gaining by this behavior. Is it just to feel good about themselves (although I doubt they ever truly get there)? Is it because they see life as a zero sum game of winners and losers? Is there some feeling of momentary joy that comes from their endeavors or do they think they are achieving a general happiness in life? They don't seem happy to me.

I have nothing else to say except that it makes me sad when anyone tortures themselves just to feel that they are worth something.

Kenji_03 · 2019-07-01T12:41:10+00:00

It's because online dating is all about impression management. So having that first impression photo be perfect is so damn important that both genders will do anything to get the best photo they can.

ManicPanicHell · 2019-07-01T12:50:06+00:00

Don't believe in these numbers (did you check an app specifically for gym-goers??) but if anything, appearances matter the most to people online, because that's what people care about on most social media (insta, twit). Steroids beef you up with no effort. Internet people want to appear attractive to their "audience". It's self inflicted.

Gotta get that filtered shirtless selfie in.

[deleted] · 2019-07-01T14:06:53+00:00

Online is bad. The hypergamy is worse there.

PanderjitSingh_k · 2019-07-01T15:43:33+00:00

Let’s see the same numbers with age controlled.

Akashe88 · 2019-07-01T19:23:02+00:00

Correlation does not equal causation.

If you want to pick up chicks you are more likely to use dating apps. You are also more likely to work on your looks.

I'm sure online dating offers a gigantic amount of bad experience and failure for guys, and probably drives many of them to cut corners for the sake of looks, but these numbers are not reliable at all.

TwentyX4 · 2019-07-02T21:49:53+00:00

Just a couple of random comments: it wouldn't surprise me if things like laxative use and bulemia were more common in the gay online dating community. I've heard that anorexia is more common among young gay men. The percentage of men who said they were gay was only around 10% of the same, though, so they couldn't have a huge effect on the numbers. Also, this stood out:

Among women, the majority were non-dating app users (83.3%, n = 915), white (68.6%, n = 753), between ages 18 and 30 years (55.8%, n = 613), and identified as straight or heterosexual (86.5%, n = 950). Men demonstrated similar characteristics as most were also non-dating app users (66.7%, n = 419)

Based on those numbers, men are twice as likely to be online daters than women. This also says a lot about how difficult online dating is for men - there's twice as many men as women, so women can be overly picky. This, of course, validates men's experiences with getting little attention on dating apps. (It's not just because men "overvalue themselves" as many blue pillers and women claim. Men are put at a huge disadvantage based on the skewed gender ratios.) This, of course, could also feed into men going to great lengths to be attractive.

the_sea_witch · 2019-07-04T09:58:57+00:00

I feel like swipe apps were a real turning point. When it became all about looks and very little else. Before then most dating profiles seemed to have far more info and men had more of a chance to win someone over.

reluctantly_red · 2019-06-30T18:23:04+00:00

OLD -- like much of our post industrial capitalist society -- is a dog eat dog winners take all system. In such systems people look for every possible advantage.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2019-06-30T19:39:04+00:00

It is better to stay away from it

meomeowmeoww · 2019-06-30T22:13:58+00:00

Its sooooo easy to lose weight and stay thin!

As a wise user once told the women: why cant they just stop eating like a pig? Literally all you have to do is stop stuffing your face!

wageovsin · 2019-07-01T02:49:35+00:00

Is there any algo that can detect photoshopped images. Im suprised no dating site has tried it at least give a warning "this picture is detected to be photoshopped"

as far as bodybuilding and low BMI being "hot" im suprised this trend is not backfiring. Where this becomes unattractive to have. Because its to removed from reality. Having some fat for a guy i commonly hear is a good thing. The bear look.

Title	Is online dating fucking up the minds of men? Is it better to stay away from it?
Author	Blonsomio
Upvotes	68
Comments	202
Date	June 30, 2019 6:05 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/c7himt/is_online_dating_fucking_up_the_minds_of_men_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-online-dating-fucking-up-the-minds-of-men-is-it.298992 https://theredarchive.com/post/298992

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