Dating & Socioeconomic Status

Mighty_Wombat42 · 2021-07-14T21:13:27+00:00

I completely get why upper class women like OP would prefer to date men on/above their level. I feel similarly but in reverse- I’m working class and wouldn’t date old money/aristocracy. I wouldn’t date a broke guy or someone who has poor money management skills, but where I live (USA) one can have a comfortable lifestyle from working for a wage or salary.

In my experience LV working class and poor men will be lazy and mooch off you, whereas LV upper class men will be just as lazy and disparage you/your family or think your education and career goals are frivolous. HV working class men will have solid money skills and be good providers, able to stick to a budget while being generous with you, and will have done the work to level up before they look for a partner. HV aristocratic/owning class men will have empathy and not judge people who work for a living and have actual knowledge and make good investments to make sure their kids will also inherit wealth like they did.

Either way, I get why a HVW would want someone within her class, not just because of money but also shared attitudes with money, values, and cultural experiences. I do just want to point out that a HVM from a working class background or who grew up in poverty would have done the work to level up, earn enough to be a good provider, and have already dealt with his insecurities, trauma, and the poverty mindset. If a man hasn’t done those things, it’s not because he’s poor or working class, it’s because he’s a LVM. If class is important to you, have that as a standard, but if you do date outside your class, be aware of red flags and how to vet men in that class so they don’t use their income or socioeconomic class as an excuse for LV behavior.

Ok-Mouse-7644 · 2021-07-14T19:31:18+00:00

It doesn't matter where they came from...what matters the most is where they end up.

You married potential. You were supposed to find a man with a stable career and paid assets to his name already at hand and that earns more than you.

Both high and low earning people can spend terribly.

AngryTiger69 · 2021-07-14T16:21:35+00:00

This is a tricky issue because we of course want to judge people based on how they handle the cards they have been dealt - and not based on factors they can’t control. But there are a lot of factors to think about when evaluating compatibility. My last two boyfriends grew up poor, and not US American poor, but third world country poor, before they immigrated to the US.

My longest relationship was with a guy who wanted to financially support his mom eventually - which would have been a financial strain for us if we wanted kids. He also had student loan debt which stressed him out so much that we could not even talk about it. I would ask him specific questions about his payment plans, how we made the financial decisions he made, etc. And he would not have solid answers to my questions and would instead get super defensive and yell at me for not understanding the struggle. Which to be fair, I was privileged enough to not have this debt but I was genuinely trying to understand his situation. I simply cannot date somebody who is uncomfortable talking about his finances. He was so stressed out that even though we agreed to share utility bills when living together, I never revealed to him how high some of them were because I was worried he would get upset and stressed out and it would lead to a fight. So I just covered electricity and told him it was roughly equal to the internet bill he paid - even though he was making more money than me at the time. Obviously not a great situation.

My most recent boyfriend had also grown up super poor and had been through a lot of trauma (parents and sister all died a few years back plus he was abused by his PhD advisor). Given his situation, I think he was genuinely trying his best to make a good life for himself. However, I felt that his problems dragged me down and he expected me to be the answer to his issues. I was always taking care of him, supporting him emotionally, I even foolishly floated the idea of marrying him if he needed a visa. Clearly it was a situation that wasn’t sustainable and I broke up with him because being his girlfriend felt like a chore to me. I also felt he was controlling at times.

Both of these men complained I was selfish and didn’t invest enough time taking care of them. I had been working on my PhD thesis at the time and when I came home, I just wanted to relax and not play therapist. I want to date somebody who can take responsibility for their own happiness without needing me to do it.

Long story short: people with problems, even if they are a matter of circumstance, can drag you down with them. Be aware of what you can tolerate and handle. Both people are supposed to benefit from the relationships we have and I left both of those relationships feeling extremely relieved.

_electrafire · 2021-07-14T17:27:34+00:00

Socioeconomic status can be used to look at men thru a critical lens whether it’s high or low. For example, my mom thought my dad would be a good catch bc he’s old money. However, the only reason he made money in real estate is bc 1.) he got lucky when the market was good and 2.) his dad gave him money to invest and he lost more than he made at the end of the day. My grandpa was wealthy during the Great Depression. His father was wealthy, and so on. But don’t be fooled - a working class man who is self-made will be a much more well-rounded person who can maintain what he has than a spoiled old money guy who looks good on the outside but actually can’t even live up to his family’s past success. My dad divorced my mom and now goes on sex tourism vacations in the Philippines and doesn’t work. He’s a giant fuck-up and his “success” was illusory. His family is pretentious and treated my mom like she was beneath them, even tho they have little to offer. Don’t be fooled by old money. I have way more respect for men who built themselves up. I do have to say though that certain subcultures within socioeconomic classes can be more or less misogynistic, so I’d scrutinize that as well. But overall, don’t go for a spoiled “man.”

datthingy · 2021-07-14T17:56:49+00:00

I grew up in poverty so I can’t really date down. These are my experiences which obviously differ vastly from yours. Please do not take offense. This is about the men not the women.

I’ve tried to date middle class and men from millionaire families but the men come off extremely privileged. The men look down on the poorer people and thought that their poorness was due to laziness and not systemic oppression.

They are selfish and greedy. Always penny pinching while the lower class would buy their friend lunch and not think twice. These men were handed things in life and yet act like they got where they were by their own hard work.

In my experience they tend to be conservative and only have a liberal facade to get in my pants. And social issues are very important to me.

I have plenty of middle class/upper class/well off female friends. They have compassion and can sympathize while the men just judge and mock.

Due to my career I am no longer in poverty and I make middle class money. But I had to work my ass off to get here and want a partner who understands me to that level.

So yes this method works for you. It doesn’t work for me.

I want a hard working man with ethics and morals. It’s rare to find that quality in any socioeconomic class.

Few-Fortune-2391 · 2021-07-14T22:23:02+00:00

This is a really interesting post. I agree with everything you say but I don't think the root cause is class - it's values.

When you're born in to money and when you grow up without money those things will affect your values, your sense of security, hell even what you believe is possible.

I think vetting applies to all men in all social classes. I've met some rich "well raised" men who were complete asshats. I've met some lower class guys who were...also asshats.

I was raised working class, educated in a middle class school for both degrees and I've never met a high value man in my life 😂 Where are they hiding?

AutomaticNopeMachine · 2021-07-14T17:29:51+00:00

I dated someone of a different background than mine and because of that I dismissed red flags thinking they were indicators of a different upbringing. But nope, he was simply a douche.

questionsaboutrel521 · 2021-07-14T18:21:58+00:00

What the handbook says, and what I’ll argue, is that it isn’t social class in a cultural and even monetary status but rather stability.

My most abusive ex came from a rich family and had a 6-figure job. But he had huge personality disorder issues, including impulsiveness. Taking all of his emotional issues and physical abuse with me aside, on the issue of finances alone, he had every advantage but was not STABLE. His housing payment was too high for his income, he gambled and lost tons of money in the stock market and casinos. This would have been really bad for my long-term stability.

On the other hand, my current bf grew up poor. He took a lot of resources and got a fantastic education and now works a job that makes decent money, a little better than me, definitely enough to pay the bills. I can tell he doesn’t have the same knowledge around investments for personal finance that I grew up with but that’s ok. He avoids debt for the most part. He owns his house. Really stable situation.

Men that can’t achieve stability no matter the social class they are born in or that they rise to are really red flags to be avoided.

shljock · 2021-07-14T17:50:49+00:00

It's an important point to consider as it carries with it a whole other set of potential clashes of financial habits, lifestyles, mindsets etc. If the difference is so drastic that there is some permanent dependency I don't see how it can be a healthy relationship. Just like you're not a free therapist to your partner, you are not their financial advisor, sponsor, rehab centre etc.

janeaustenfan99 · 2021-07-14T21:47:22+00:00

I don’t know about class differences per se, but definitely do not date men who are housing insecure. There seems to be some kind of push culturally for women to be okay with this or think it’s cute. Hobosexuals can ruin your life.

carmen_sandiegos_hat · 2021-07-14T17:54:46+00:00

I was born into poverty and raised watching my parents go from below the poverty line to working class to above. Now our family is doing really well but there are still a few times that I catch myself doing things we did when we were poor (like buying cheap things hoping to replace it later when I could just pay a little more for a lifelong thing).

It has taken me about 5 years to get out of this mindset and I'm doing infinitely better. But those 5 years were work that I, and only I, put into getting to where I am today.

This mindset is not something that you can get out of by dating someone or marrying into their family. YOU must do the legwork to get out of it.

I've also dated people from outside my socioeconomic class. I'll be honest with you. I'd be hesitant to do it again. Not everyone wants to leave where they are and not everyone can change their mindset. It was a struggle to date them because of this very thing.

Another thing that bugged me was that they did not care AT ALL about my previous social class and the hardships my family went through. And when I did tell them, they started to see me as competition. Tall poppy syndrome/crabs in a barrel.

All they cared about was me now, how much money I had now, and what they had to do to get to my level so they could find another person on my level.

I've since moved from them but learned that it is better NOT to tell and I'm not going to offer any information when it comes to finance/what my family does. If they ask and they're not from my socioeconomic class, I'm going to lie.

Growing up, I never understood why my well-off friends (and I do mean well-off/famous family friends) would lie about what they did or keep things hush hush. It was because of this.

If I have any advice for anyone out there, OP is 100% correct. Keep in mind socioeconomic class AND if they have a poverty mindset.

Edit: I'm being downvoted, too. Lol

lilac-hiraeth · 2021-07-14T18:40:45+00:00

Social Class is a tough one for me. My dad is Indigenous, transient, poor, couch surfs, eats at shelters (just want to plug here, this is NOT because he’s lazy or an addict. This is the DIRECT result of systematic racism, Colonization, and the abuses of the church and Residential Schooling and Foster Care.) My mom is German, and very well off, makes bank and has a big house with a pool. I lived in two different worlds my whole life.

I actually feel safer and more comfortable in and around poverty; I bought my house in an area known for being “poor” on the socioeconomic scale but the community is what I like. It’s anything but poor. It’s alive! I know my neighbours. I relate to them. I can live as I please. I hear children run wild playing all night. I can practice ceremonies, I can protest politics and I can meet the passers through my area easily and grow my community. No one judges you. No one really bothers you. If someone needs help and you can, you do.

In my moms affluent neighborhood I was raped for “being brown”, I was ridiculed at all my private schools, I had men try to pimp me out, I was fetishized. I’ve had white men toss money at me (I’ve been harassed and assaulted by more well to do white men than any other demographic by a fucking landslide). I couldn’t make friends, I was judged for being cultural and a “sqaw” in church. Fuck, it was awful. I actually got street smart to protect myself in my moms area, not my dads. No one talked to each other, it was very “keeping up with the Jones’s” and not being white people assumed I wasn’t living in the area I grew up in. I was stalked on the street a lot and absolutely no one would have come running out of their nice big brick houses if I screamed on the street.

So, socioeconomics is weird. I feel safer and more connected to people who ARE POORER. I work hard. I bought my own house. I have the things I like. I can date down and I can date up, so values and ethics or community are what I value more than money necessarily. My ex “well off” husband from a good neighborhood put us in debt with his entitlement and gaming addictions. His money background didn’t matter at all, his attitude did…and it almost sank me in the end. I’d rather take hood vibes with someone who knows hard work because being poor is fucking hard work than some spoiled idiot ever again, where all his white friends liked to pat him on the back for getting that “brown sugar” who was wild but worked like a horse.

What I ultimately learned in my marriage is regardless of what they earn…never mix finances, pre-nup, keep your own savings and always be able and ready to support yourself. And community is key….for me.

I understand we all come from different places but it’s easy to disregard the systemic racist systems that we benefit from while making blanket statements about the “type of person” someone is because of a lower socioeconomic status. Everyone needs to check their privileges. That’s not to say I disagree. Different worlds ARE different worlds and weaving them together is hard, I know first hand. Be careful about how you talk and view people who have less, especially if they’re Indigenous or a minority. We already jump hoops just to be humanized, throw “poor and being a woman” on top of that, and holy fuck, the well off men are the ones that I sleep with one eye open because of.

ponchoacademy · 2021-07-15T00:40:54+00:00

This is where I think it actually comes down to something far more simple. Take someone for who they are now, not for what their potential. Dating is the process of finding out if you share the same values, goals and lifestyle...if those things dont match, then you are not right for each other.

fireforestfairy · 2021-07-14T16:42:15+00:00

Interesting I created a post asking about this a while ago. Now that I think about it, social class really does matter. Your upbringing, life experiences, spending habits, hobbies, and personal values will be different from someone of another social class.

And yes, dating guys who are much less wealthy than you will be a challenge. In my experience, working class folks tend to be extremely frugal where they insist on always buying the cheapest item and saving every dollar they have. This creates problems if you're used to a more comfortable life. Given how these guys are so frugal, they'll probably insist on splitting the bill all the time (and this is against FDS's principles) and going on the cheapest dates all the time (eg. a walk around the park or a McDate). Even if it seems "novel" to you at first you'll eventually get sick of it. The guy will unlikely change a lot after marriage unless you're paying for everything.

When you date a guy who is poor, there is also the chance that he is a gold digger. Despite how men stereotype women being more likely to gold dig than men, a lot of men do this too. Plenty of guys dream of having a rich SO so he can live in a posh penthouse while not having to work at all. If you date within your social class, you don't have to worry about the guy being a potential gold digger. Even if the guy himself is not a gold digger, his parents or relatives may be asking you for money/to borrow money and will resent you if you say no.

Oh, and men are not always thankful if their SO is wealthier than them. Despite how many men dream of having a rich SO to leech off of, being in a relationship with a woman with more money than them hurts their fragile male ego. They have a love-hate relationship with women like that. Some may even be jealous of the money you have.

sufficientlygraceful · 2021-07-14T18:19:21+00:00

One word: alimony. You could end up financing his LVM, NVM lifestyle. Male "social climbers" exist and can cost you your current lifestyle and your financial future. Especially when you consider we outlive men, are often underpaid, and may take time out of the workforce to have children.

I had a viciously close call that taught me future mates must earn, at minimum, double what I earn.

GreatOrchidAmbition · 2021-07-14T22:07:37+00:00

wow, this is very timely as I was talking to my own mother about this. Both she and my grandmother married "nice" seeming boys who were beneath their social class and then toiled for years while tolerating their husband's late-blooming narcissism/psychosis/whatever.

Here to break the cycle. I refuse to date below my social class. I only look up.

chasingshoesales · 2021-07-15T04:46:55+00:00

My last ex was from a millionaire family and I came from poverty. He was an absolute LVM moron. He had gone to some of the best schools but had failed businesses and really backwards ways of thinking. He was essentially a homeless alcoholic when I met him (pick me!) He prided himself in “saving” people, but really just used his low income friends to feel good about himself. He was low key racist and sexist.

I spent most of the relationship trying to empathize with his privilege (yes you read that right) and now realized he never empathized with my lack of privilege. For example, He was reckless and smoked weed out in the open. I tried explaining how getting arrested would literally ruin my life and he scoffed it off. There was a real inability to take me seriously (sexism, racism, classism, all of the above? Take your pick) Either way I was and am currently of higher class if you discard his parents’ incomes since he was a jobless loser that lived in their basement. Typical LVM

I’d disagree with this post as it’s too general. I came from a poor low class family that taught me nothing of life and finances but still figured it out. I have a savings account and my loans are getting paid. I definitely have more to offer than teaching “hood mentality”?? Like what lol?

I would say that after my last experience I’d vet a lot harder for someone coming from higher class, but I wouldn’t completely write a HVM off if he was well off. My ex lacked in HVM traits because he CHOSE to. A lot of people from poverty lack HV traits because they CHOOSE to. The potential is always there no matter what background or class you come from (IMO).

queenofswordsxxx · 2021-07-14T16:38:03+00:00

Also in general, just don’t date poor men. Women can be afraid of gold diggers too.

Consider why they’re poor - lack of intelligence/ skill, bad habits, addiction, generational trauma and weakness… why would you want to be near that or help BREED that?

TieDieEye · 2021-07-14T15:42:00+00:00

I agree. Plus a lot of broke men treat women way worse because they think if she'll date them then she must have less value (Then even if their situation improves they'll immediately trade you up)

And they also complain about gold diggers when they have no money which just ???????

There's literally no point

wholethescrotesout · 2021-07-14T15:56:55+00:00

I can get behind this! We all deserve someone on the same level as us. I prefer men who are responsible and can take care of themselves. I didn’t become successful to be a grown man’s mother 😉

mangounicorns · 2021-07-14T16:02:17+00:00

Could not agree more. Been there done that, and will never do it again.

What it truly comes down to isn’t about money, but values and lifestyles. I want a partner with the same set of values as I do, and it’s difficult to find that with someone who isn’t in the same class.

Those could include considerations around education, financial habits, family planning, even cities/areas to live in, to name a few.

souredskittles · 2021-07-14T19:31:10+00:00

It’s weird because middle to lower middle class are the ones that parade that the partners social class doesn’t matter. It’s the UMC and above where it absolutely matters. Parents, especially immigrant parents in UMC do ask about your family and what they do for a living. I remember my exes parents asking questions to kind of gauge where my family/I was at.

I agree, date equal or above, but not excessively above.

I dated a guy that grew up frugally because his parents lived in a nicer area but had to nickel and dime their life to afford things. Even when he was okay financially, he was extremely cheap. If we would eat out and I wanted to leave a bite of a burger (or literally he crumb of fries at the bottom of the plate) (throw it away) he got annoyed and would always tell me to take it home 😒 I’m like seriously?

It’s just a lot of little things you’ll bump heads with if you date way out of your class, either super poor or super rich if you are middle class

Any_Indication_2754 · 2021-07-14T23:25:06+00:00

This plus how smart he is with money and how generous he is with you.

featherflowers · 2021-07-14T16:02:47+00:00

This is handbook material. I have a similar story and find this so relatable. I think many women will see similarities in what they have been through as well. Especially since we are raised to give a man a chance rather than asking what he brings to the table.

asoww · 2021-07-14T22:56:10+00:00

Your ex husband sounds like a classic case of imposter syndrome You don't want to vet socio-economic status, none of us chose were we would be born. You ant to vet what they make out of it, and whether they use it as an excuse to be LV way.

Title	Dating & Socioeconomic Status
Author	tryingbutfailing2223
Upvotes	172
Comments	58
Date	July 14, 2021 3:35 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/ok6uaz/dating_socioeconomic_status/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/dating-socioeconomic-status.791364 https://theredarchive.com/post/791364

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