It looks like r/mensrights needs a reminder given the number of "Not All Feminists Are Like That" posts making the front page right now...

shezabel · 2013-04-08T12:09:00+00:00

I would say I'm a feminist. But I also advocate men's rights because I believe inequality works both ways. I still believe women are sidelined in many ways but the same can be true for men; both instances can be quite different. I hate that the feminist movement has been hijacked by a bunch of female psychos looking to implement female dominance and I do not stand for that at all, but at the same time I would still say I'm a feminist. I think the term has been twisted along with the original aims of the movement.

Furthermore, if I said I was 'egalitarian' (a movement I identify with much more freely), I don't think people would know what I was on about.

TL;DR Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

ClaudeKenni · 2013-04-08T12:39:01+00:00

The first problem is that in the discussion of gender issues, feminists have both the position of power, and a public perception of victimhood. When challenging discriminatory law and damaging public perceptions of men, the MRM isn't working in a vacuum, and feminism's uniquely privileged position means that we have to engage with feminism in some way or another to push forward the issues that we believe are important for men in today's society.

Once we accept that we need to engage with feminism in some way, the next step is in asking how we go about it. I can understand your opinion on trying to promote dialogue with feminists as pointless, so many radfems are anti-male, and combined with the general disinterest by mainstream feminists in male issues, trying to 'fix' feminism seems pretty much impossible. But we also have to step back for one second, and admit that feminism has done a good job for women. In a lot of areas it has gone too far, and in others its attitudes are suspect, and its certainly done almost nothing for men.

I feel that the issues that men face in society can be split three ways, issues that have been caused by feminism, issues where feminism has dealt with issues for women, but not men, and issues with no link to feminism. For the first we have to be proactive in challenging feminism, and the damage it has done, and given from experience how resistant feminists usually seem when having their narrative on gender issues challenged, it is close to impossible to have a constructive dialogue. But for the second and third types of issues, I feel that there is always opportunity for constructive dialogue, and think that in fact it's very beneficial for us to do so.

The reason for this is that it's very easy for us to argue our case, can create a positive perception of the MRM, and can also highlight the most bigoted elements of feminism. Lets take the issue of forced genital mutilation. I think I can safely say we have a consensus in the MRM that all forced genital mutilation, whether for men or women, is bad, though if the reason is medical, or from informed personal choice as an adult, then fair enough. I think I can also say with certainty that feminists are against forced genital mutilation of women. Now put that point to a feminist, and you tend to get three responses. The first is agreement, which is good for us, as it makes it clear to those who might have a bad perception of the MRM that the issues we are challenging are important. The second is "ok, but it's not as bad as when it happens to girls", which is annoying and dismissive, but is also a good response for us. It makes it clear that they see feminism as a women's issues group, and not a group for equality for everyone, giving us more 'space' to discuss men's issues. Finally, and briefly as i'm writing more than I intented, is the response "forced male genital mutilation is ok", which is also good for us, as it makes the misandry and hypocrisy of those particular feminists very clear, and shows that we are reasonable in comparison.

In summary, the reason we should engage, and try to form constructive dialogue with feminists about mens issues, is because it is beneficial to us. I might, like most of us, feel that feminism is often harmful to men and men's rights, but every feminist that agrees with us that men do face many issues in society today, whether or not they actually do anything about it, is one less feminist opposing us. If feminism doesn't want to deal with men's issues, I'm fine with that, but it's those who are actively attacking the idea that men do face these in society who are most harmful, but tend to do our cause the most good, by showing how bigoted that attitude is.

MeEvilBob · 2013-04-08T15:16:53+00:00

Personally, the way I look at it, if you can truly say that you think that there is any human being on earth that doesn't deserve equal treatment based on something they have no control over, then I can truly say that you are a bigot who represents all that is wrong with the world.

Pecanpig · 2013-04-08T10:54:20+00:00

I don't disagree that the odds of us having constructive dialogue with Feminists is near nothing, we should still try.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-04-08T15:35:23+00:00

I think with an average feminist discussion is possible.

A lot of MRAs are former feminists who were turned by some good argument.

For the political-feminist or SJW though, no. They are too far gone.

It's the difference between discussing abortion with a moderate Christian and one who has just shot up an abortion clinic.

CrossHook · 2013-04-08T14:17:50+00:00

What are women who believe in equality supposed to call themselves? I'd call myself a Men's Rights Activist but I think a lot of the beliefs of MR are actually feminist beliefs...in that they advocate for equality.

Egalitarian?

2013-04-08T14:02:58+00:00

Thank you.

literallyschmiteraly · 2013-04-08T15:16:16+00:00

I feel I've had constructive dialogue with a feminist when I've managed to implant the seed of an idea that feminism is ruining her happiness. Which I occasionally achieve.

giegerwasright · 2013-04-08T11:49:02+00:00

Here's the thing. In case you haven't noticed, women tend to normal to feminism. So, if radical feminism has become mainstream feminism, and women tend to normal to feminism, then women tend to normal to radical feminism.

I don't think that we're going to end up a very happy society if we allow ourselves to slip into some sort of socially voluntary segregation.

theozoph · 2013-04-08T13:50:41+00:00

Looks like we had the same idea.

Well done.

Redditishorrible · 2013-04-08T22:58:37+00:00

Adding a bit to the OP's point.

Feminism is inherently anti-equality.

From start to finish.

Put yourself in the position of someone who wishes to create a rights advocacy group little over 100 years ago give or take.

You state your goal as equality, egalitarianism.

But you not only name your group for one group of people, not all, but solely focus on issues pertaining to just one group.

Even going with this "tey wymynz wer opresssed" narrative it makes no sense outside selfish exclusionary discrimination to create a rights group that focuses on only one group of people when no other such rights group of any kind exists.

You either push for equality for everyone, or you're one of two things, a discriminatory chauvinist bigot, or like the MRM, a bitter reactionary desperately clinging to the victories you can achieve.

Feminists hate the MRM, yet the irony is they are the reason it exists at all.

In a perfect world neither would exist, terms like MRM, feminism, masculism, etc WOULD. NOT. EXIST.

Their existence is proof even if we fix all practical problems and issues by some miracle, we still have a long way to go as species.

And this is just in relation to matter of gender.

Going on a tangent here, but we are at the beginning of the space age, one day not long from now we may depart into the deep vastness of space in a spectacular way, yet somehow, for all our progress we can't even get the whole "treat each other equally and with respect" thing down.

What the fuck does that say about us?

I rambled a bit, but I feel better.

rightsbot · 2013-04-08T10:20:17+00:00

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CrossHook · 2013-04-08T12:49:50+00:00

This post is appreciated. It looks like instead of actually supporting the MRM in feminist spaces, these trolls would rather come here and preach their ideology. But rather than dissuade us, it only makes us more vulcanized.

Keep it coming, feminists. Feed my hate for you.

ignatiusloyola · 2013-04-08T15:13:02+00:00

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2939#comic

VaginalAssaultRifles · 2013-04-08T18:19:55+00:00

/r/feminismishate is a safe-space or victims of feminism where feminist ideology is not tolerated. If they can do it, we can do it, too.

PeterPorky · 2013-04-08T19:36:18+00:00

You're making too much of a blanket statement about feminism.

Feminism can have a wide range of views. Some can be outright hate mongering, and some can simply be moving towards equality.

Making a generalization about an entire people is... well part of the problem true feminists and true MRA's are working against.

Redditishorrible · 2013-04-08T22:52:12+00:00

Good luck with that, unfortunately this MRM community never learns.

Windex007 · 2013-04-08T18:45:41+00:00

by that logic I can't have a constructive debate about healthcare or guns in texas. Quit trying to radicalize mra's into what you see feminism as.

Mr_Rivers · 2013-04-08T12:46:40+00:00

No meaningful dialouge? You sound JUST like them. I refuse to accept that the girl I know at university who was raped and is just looking for answers on how to fix it cannot be engaged in constructive dialouge, no, I am sure she is just the enemy. The only way this is going to be solved is by stopping the non crazy feminists propping up the crazies. How do you propose that exactly?

Feminists come to this subreddit, and we welcome them because we want to convince them we are fighting a good cause. Should we start banning them like r/feminism does to us? Next, you will be saying we should shout them down while we read off a list.

Activism, you know the thing in our title, is about changing people's perspectives and opinions. The second you stop doing this you turn from an activist into a whiner.

SenorSpicyBeans · 2013-04-08T18:18:38+00:00

This sub really needs to be renamed to /r/FeminismIsLiterallyHitler or /r/waaaaaahFeminism or something. You'd think people would actually talk about men's rights in a place called /r/MensRights.

Nope, just people bitching about feminists.

anillop · 2013-04-08T15:35:27+00:00

I am sorry but this is the exact kind of post that makes Mensrights have a bad reputation. Talk about coming off like a whiny baby who cant even listen to the other side of an issue. Posts like the make me realize that this isn't really a place for mens rights advocates to promote change, its just a place for bitter angry people to bash feminism. Don't get me wrong modern feminism is ripe for the bashing, but posts like this are just fucking childish. For fucks sakes this sounds like a SRS post talking about how there is only one way of thinking and if you don't agree then you have to leave. Did you ever think that you have just become what you hate?

Title	It looks like r/mensrights needs a reminder given the number of "Not All Feminists Are Like That" posts making the front page right now...
Author	DaNiceguy
Upvotes	57
Comments	168
Date	April 8, 2013 10:18 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1bwr3v/it-looks-like-rmensrights-needs-a-reminder-given-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/it-looks-like-rmensrights-needs-a-reminder-given.1610049 https://theredarchive.com/post/1610049

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