Did you paternity test them? | PurplePillDebate

DaphneDK42 · 2019-06-07T09:43:24+00:00

Have you paternity tested your kids? Why / Why not?...

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Abuses were so egregious that the US is now reformed such that only husbands have to worry about that anymore. Non-husbands can demand DNA testing before child support is awarded. If you are unmarried your name may be on the certificate, but it means jack shit without DNA confirmation in court if the non-husband challenges.

Then it is still worse than in France. In France, husbands are de facto the father unless they contest paternity and they need a judge to allow a DNA test and to do so they need to bring some evidence of suspicion of non-paternity (like she cheated). They have FIVE years to do so and after that, they need to convince a DA to convince a judge.

If you're not married in France, the man has to willingly declare himself as the dad at the city hall. If noone comes forward, the onus is on the mother to file a paternity suit in the name of the child and she has to prove you are the dad, and she cannot make a discrete DNA test and bring that to court. She has to convince a judge that you MIGHT be the father and then the judge may order a DNA test that you don't even have to comply to. So court-ordered only DNA test actually PROTECT men because if the mother has no evidence of any form of relationship - for example in a ONS - then she won't get a DNA test.

So the same uneducated lament is seen again and again on Reddit: "In France DNA paternity tests are illegal CUCK CUCK CUCK". Well this PROTECTS men. The only people who are fucked by that are HUSBANDS whose wife cheated. The simple solution is DON'T MARRY.

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Have you ever spoken to a woman about prenups?

They all care about gender equality until they realize what gender equality actually entails.

This is a profound statement. On another discussion thread some guy talked about how he loved his girlfriend, but wary and doubtful about marriage because men cannot assume or trust women to fulfill their portion of the marriage contract.

A woman can change her mind at any point in the marriage, and opt out of wife duties with virtually no penalties. In fact, most times women still benefit in divorce even if they're at fault for dissolution and failure of the marriage.

I offered the following response:

As much as your girlfriend loves you, one way to "test" that love to do so is with talk of a pre-nuptial agreement. Lots of women love to push marriage, but it's mainly because they gain so much in resources, benefits, and retirement perks...all from legally recognized marriage. The point of marriage is family and legacy as well, but the reality is that marriage is in direct support of financial gain for women and to further generational wealth.

That said, women's natural hypergamy and general disgust for carrying the family's financial burden means that most women naturally seek to marry a higher-earning spouse and someone who will be a workhorse for the duration of the marriage - in case they take either a SAHM long-break or work sabbatical.

What this means is that in divorce the lower-earning spouse, usually the woman, can petition the higher-earner for temporary or lifetime support. This incudes petitioning for a portion of the higher-earner's salary increases and retirement.

The current setup benefits women the most and they assume very little to no risk, whereas it's men who assume the most long-term and highest risk in marriage.

The only way to make it fair is that women assume not necessarily equal, but a relatively equal and fair amount of risk. Any woman who refuses to do so by way of a solid and iron-clad pre-nuptial agreement fully understands what she stands to gain in divorce and is a big red flag and question mark for marriage.

While women are out here screaming "marry me," it's time women accepted an equitable amount of risk as well. In short - they have to have something to lose in both marriage and potential divorce.

Also - lots of folks say pre-nuptial agreements are crap.

PRO TIP: Use separate attorneys, video record the signing for both parties with a credible and disinterested third-party witness, and ensure signatures and total agreement to ALL terms at least eight to nine months prior to the wedding to avoid any possible claims of "signature under duress."

Some pre-nups were signed two to seven days before the wedding and were ignored during divorce proceedings based on claims of duress.

[–]arcticshqip1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]BewareTheOldMan0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I'll offer you TWO answers.

#1 - When done right, marriage offers safety and general protection, financial security and stability (generally provided by the husband), medical and life-insurance benefits, retirement benefits (assuming both parties work until retirement, but this again is generally provided by the husband), life insurance and death benefits passed to the surviving spouse. It is also a technique to establish and/or maintain wealth and ensure said wealth is bequeathed to future generations.

Other top reasons for marriage are legal recognition and rearing children to adulthood (presumably) in a loving, stable, and two-parent household as this format generally produces better childhood outcomes for these children that generally leads to success as adults.

The intimacy and emotional portion includes love, appreciation, respect, and (presumably) regular and enthusiastic sexual relations with a dedicated spouse.

All of the aforementioned benefits and perks and a few other benefits that vary from marriage to marriage offer wonderful advantages to women in ensuring a comfortable life as it is generally the husband who is required by tradition and in some cases by law to ensure the wellbeing, health, and financial responsibility of his wife and children.

#2 - Marriage in its current form as practiced by many American women is a way to ensure ALL or more of the aforementioned perks by way of extracting resources and benefits to women, and provides leverage which can be used to threaten men with divorce while a wife can simultaneously refuse to fulfill her duties as promised and as expected by her husband.

In short - a woman can at any point decide she no longer wishes to fulfill her role with very little men can do to get her back on task...all the while knowing she can divorce her husband and still be rewarded with assets, short-term or LIFETIME financial payments, child custody, and payment increases based on an ex-husband's future promotions.

When most women get married, they emphasize scenario #1, but can transition to scenario #2 at any time in the marriage with almost no penalty, minus possible social shame and degraded sexual and marital market value for being a divorcee - oftentimes with children from marriage.

Scenario #1 BOTH parties benefits, in #2 it is women who specifically benefit while the ex-husband is set to frustration, anger, long-term suffering, and in some cases suicide...due to loss of half or more marital assets, financial payments, reduced access and influence to children, numerous court appearances, and exorbitant attorney fees.

It makes sense for any man entering marriage to initiate and ensure an iron-clad pre-nuptial agreement using separate attorneys, video record the signing for both parties with a credible and disinterested third-party witness, and ensure signatures and total agreement to ALL terms at least eight to nine months prior to the wedding to avoid any possible claims of "signature under duress."

In divorce an agreement will likely be challenged, but it still prevents men from getting completely razed and destroyed in court.

Notably, it is WOMEN who initiate divorce at a 70% rate versus men who almost never want divorce due to having so much to lose in the proceedings. I suspect the men who initiate divorce due so because they can't stand their [pick one or two] unfaithful, fat and/or lazy, or irresponsible shrew of a wife one more second.

The interesting reason that most women initiate divorce is "dissatisfaction" - NOT infidelity, domestic abuse, or financial irresponsibility...but dissatisfaction.

Let that sink in.

Anyway - I'm unsure why women, or anyone for that matter, refuses to explain how and why there are many more benefits to women versus men. It's men who are generally the family's workhorse and provides the nice comfortable life enjoyed by the wife and children.

[–]arcticshqip1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]BewareTheOldMan0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or change the laws to be gender neutral.

Women love the marriage and divorce laws as they currently stand and how they benefit women/the lower-earning or non-working spouse...which is usually the woman. Hypergamy floats.

I posit that until 50 percent or more women find themselves suffering under these same laws, there will be no changes. Men either suck it up or suffer the consequences of divorce....or they opt out of marriage altogether - an option that is reflected in today's lowered marriage-rates.

Also - hiring a maid is much more cost-effective, but the maid is not expected to birth and rear your children to adulthood. There's also no expectation or requirement for maids to provide sex or other wifely acts to their employers...unless of course it's provided as part of paid services.

if wifely duties are expected then men should realize that years of sleep deprivation and not meeting friends or relatives very often make even women tired.

If [husband] duties are expected then [women] should realize that years of sleep deprivation and not meeting friends or relatives very often make even [men] tired.

All I did was reverse the gender to reflect the requirements and expectations that men have been fulfilling for years and long before women entered the workforce en masse, yet men somehow continue to grind hard for their families to their virtual death.

Lots of women want the benefits, safety, security, and stability of marriage, but are less interested in doing the actual work it takes to ensure the best parts of a marriage. .

If a man fails his husband-father duties and tasks, he's vilified, lambasted, and judged harshly for his failures. With regard to their wife-mother duties and tasks, women must be held to the same standard.

PRO TIP: Do the work or avoid marriage altogether, but don't get caught slacking ladies.

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and many husbands trust their wives to honor "til death do us part"

try reconciling that to the fact that 80%+ divorces are initiated by women

Not all trust is well placed. He could also do me wrong but we have come to trust each other. It's a vital part of our relationship. I wouldn't want to stay with a guy who didn't trust me. It just wouldn't be a good relationship.

you are attempting to have your cake and eat it too.

How is that so? We love each other and chose to marry each other. I wanted personally wanted to do it for my mother, and he felt like it was right. I'm glad we did because I feel a lot more committed to him now. Plus, those taxes are really doing us good this year.

the only way that wouldn't be true is if you are willing to sign a prenup. are you?

Sorry to burst any bubbles of bitterness, but I was and I did.

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[–]TheChemist1581 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What social expectations are not being met by not signing the marriage certificate?

The expectation is actually being legally married. Most people don't just so the ceremony. Getting legally hitched is part of the package to most people.

What principles are you violating or not meeting by not signing the marriage certificate?

The principle of actually getting legally joined. Becoming a family unit in the eyes of the government.

I know that the social expectation to raise my own children isn't being met when it's actually someone elses... I know my principles around honesty are being violated by a woman tricking me into paying for someone else's children.

I'm not talking about cuckoldry. That's a shitty thing to do, and absolutely we should hate and scorn any women that does it. What I'm talking about is wanting a paternity test out of principle. That is pretty much nothing but a sign that you don't trust your SO.

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Counter question; what is all your friends started playing a new video game together, would you do it too?

Nah, I'm not much of a gamer. I might play it once if I am physically with my friends but I won't go out and buy a copy for myself to play online or whatever. Especially with the insane price of games these days.

But of a bad analogy though isn't it? You devote how much time to completing a video game vs. the rest of your life to a marriage? And if you want to stop playing the game you can stop whenever you want. If you wanna stop a marriage you lose half your shit.

One clearly requires far more commitment than the other... it is more rational to buy a game your friends are playing because it's a bit of harmless fun, but I would not make a life changing decision based purely on what my friends do.

Btw you've reminded me of this now: video games are better than girlfriends.

I don't know about you, but I might. Engaging in culture is fun. We celebrate holidays and birthdays and do running gags with friends. There's nothing inherently wrong or bad with engaging in culture.

It's not so much that it's inherently wrong, in fact I don't believe anything is inherently wrong but I won't get that deep here, the point is really that marriage specifically is a life changing decision with a massive commitment, and doing it just to copy your friends is irrational and not at all comparable to buying a game because your friends are on it.

You can argue that some things are risky, and are bad because they are risky. But one, my husband doesn't have much of a risk in marrying me and two, he decided to do it. Hell, he even wanted it more than me.

Cool good for you two. I'm speaking in general not personally to you. I have no idea what motivations your husband had. I am simply responding to your claim that it is rational to get married for shits and grins because your mates do it.

[–]ActiveShitter0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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So your solution is just to let 15 to 30% of men keep being victims of paternity fraud and do nothing about it?

One, where in the hell did you get that number from? Two, I was just talking about my relationship. I trust my husband not to harm me and I won't harm him. Bad shit happens to other people, but I'm order for a relationship to work we need mutual trust.

In that case we should also legalize rape.

That is an absolute non sequitur.

Why should we care if you get pregnant with a rapist's baby if you don't care if we're made to spend our whole lives thinking we're fathers while raising someone's else's children?

Cuckoldry is bad. I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying that my husband needs to trust me not to do that. Domestic violence is also bad but I trust him not to start beating me.

[–]FlyingResearcher1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheChemist158Non-Feminist Blue Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're going to need to break things down a bit more because I am not following you.

Women are usually the ones with trust issues though. That's just projection 101.

Regardless of which gender had what issue more often, how is this relevant? Unless you are going through life assuming that every woman you talk to has trust issues. We are talking about hypothetical first dates, where your would be with some particular woman and trying to assess her flaws and good traits. Some women have trust issues, some don't. You're telling to figure it if this individual does.

If a woman brings something like that up to see if I trust her or not, I can almost guarantee that she has trust issues herself and that's why she's asking.

If you are on the third date and talking about work when she suddenly starts grilling you on if you would demand a paternity test, yeah, she probably has trust issues.

Doesn't change the fact that a guy who does the same probably also has trust issues.

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What happened to reals over feels...?

I get what you're saying. It's a shitty position to find yourself in. But here's my thoughts.

RP is so quick to say unicorn women, if they exist, are so rare it's stupid to waste your time in pursuit of one.

If paternity fraud is also similarly rare, why spend so much energy telling exaggerated horror stories?

It really only makes sense from the feels-over-reals hand-wringing neurotic folks who actively believe women are all cheating evil harpies who file for divorce rape the second she feels she can make $$$. That's not statistical reality though. For most folks in average relationships, the biological parents are who common sense would say they are. For most folks, women fare worse after a divorce. For most folks, they're at least satisfied with their relationships into and after middle age. That's the statistical reality of these things.

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[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Supernumiphone0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jamez14691 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The only time that a person should take precautionary measures in the case of undertaking "low" risk ( it's in brackets because really, we don't know if the risk is actually low since children aren't tested for paternity regularly) is when the cost of that risk is extremely high.

It's a not a Feels-over reals type thing, it's a risk-cost-benefit type thing. If the children aren't yours, then the cost is high, that cost can be eliminated by doing one test that's cheap in comparison.

Let me put it this way, if you were buying a 2million dollar house, spending your entire life savings on the house, and the seller is your best friend of 10 years. Your friend tells you "hey, don't worry, trust me, there's NOTHING wrong with the house. You don't need an inspection, it's all good. In fact, if you get an inspection, I don't think our friendship can continue", wouldn't you want an inspection? Sure, the chances of something being wrong with the house are low, he's your best friend after all, but still, the cost is so high.

Sure, the vast majority of homeowners take care of their homes. Sure, the chances that your friend is trying to scam you is very low. But, considering you are spending your life savings, wouldn't you rather do the inspection?

[–]FlyingResearcher0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

Most studies put blind non-paternity at about 1-2% with the exception of a few areas. Even the link in the original parent comment backs this up.

Pay close attention to the qualifications of the studies you read. If it's not a randomized blind study (ie done by a research organization and not a commercial paternity-testing company, for example) the sample size is disproportionately men who already suspect they're not the father in the first place. Some studies also include stepfathers and adoptive fathers in their measurements, in which cases the fathers presumably know the children they raise are not theirs biologically.

Inflated data and lack of common sense are not beneficial in getting an accurate and realistic picture, and only inflame hand-wringing and pitchfork wavers.

Again to point out, most of the data spread by MR and TRP and MGTOW that shows the 10-25% figure are from paternity testing centers where the mother or father submitted it themselves, which indicates the child is already more likely to be of questionable parenthood; as such, it's worth keeping in mind that even of these, assumed paternity is accurate more often than not at 75-90%.

[–]FlyingResearcher2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]FlyingResearcher0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]atlantic68Purple Shill0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LethalShade2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Sure, and that's reasonable. It's worth noting though that even within that small percentage, it varies a lot based on class and area (at least according to data from the US). Higher class, the rate drops, I think the lowest I've seen is 0.3%. lower class, it ticks up to as much as 5%. Once you get into small enough samples though, the data starts to get skewed, so it's not perfect yet of course.

I think the thing guys here often fail to understand is that the approach matters. If my SO states fairly early on that a PatTest is a requirement if we have kids, ok, no big. If he springs it on me without warning the day our kid is born, I'm probably going to react really, really negatively.

That's why asking married women here in 10y relationships, how they'd respond if their H asks them for a test is such a poor way of approaching the question. Out of the blue, it's an accusation of infidelity. It's a random STD test where there was never a need for one before, or a random search of the phone records.

Established? Planned? It's not worth even a minor annoyance. It's expected and permissable.

Ask the LTR women here: if their SO had expressed the want a paternity test from before they even got pregnant, and repeated this desire calmly but frequently, if they'd still have an issue with it when they actually had kids. Most will say no.

[–]LethalShade0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FlyingResearcher3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]FlyingResearcher1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]planejaneRemove head from sphincter, THEN type.0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]figyg0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]billybones110 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]J_Milton_Jr 1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eastuss 1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DaphneDK42 1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LittleknownfactsAutomod is my husband[M] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheoremaEgregium2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DaphneDK42King of LBFMs[S] 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopOccasion29Mostly Red1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]saphirekey1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ZodiacBrave98Open Hypergamy Triggers Me0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModeratorMarried to Littleknownfacts[M] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]Young_Oryx 1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DaphneDK42King of LBFMs[S] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Young_Oryx4 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]TopOccasion29Mostly Red1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Million-SunsMarriage is obsolete0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]moroots1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]darksoldierkPurple Pill0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyOrange pill is best pill0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]passepar2t3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]passepar2t1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]madcockatielAlpha Bird, Slayer of Cloaca0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Joey_Lopez0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ActiveShitter0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Did you paternity test them?
Author	DaphneDK42
Upvotes	34
Comments	222
Date	June 7, 2019 9:43 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/bxsmvr/did_you_paternity_test_them/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/did-you-paternity-test-them.255423 https://theredarchive.com/post/255423

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